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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:49 am 


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Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 2071
Location: DFW area, Texas
Smile_Kaiser wrote:

I'm using the same power supply for both the Framemeister and the gscartsw-lite, if that's what you mean, yeah. Hopefully it's a power supply issue; I've got a lot hooked up to it at once and it's nothing special.


Actually I meant the mini-din to SCART adapter cable. Is is the same one you used to hook the gscartsw-lite up to?
_________________
Framemeister profiles: http://www.firebrandx.com/framemeisterprofiles.html

NES NTSC Palettes: http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

SNES Serial DB: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HYLy_TTDop_FzuX6qnxuQI43upg4raXfno582taO744/pubhtml


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:15 pm 


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Joined: 23 May 2017
Posts: 22
FBX wrote:
Smile_Kaiser wrote:

I'm using the same power supply for both the Framemeister and the gscartsw-lite, if that's what you mean, yeah. Hopefully it's a power supply issue; I've got a lot hooked up to it at once and it's nothing special.


Actually I meant the mini-din to SCART adapter cable. Is is the same one you used to hook the gscartsw-lite up to?


Oh! Yes.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:28 am 


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Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 2071
Location: DFW area, Texas
Smile_Kaiser wrote:
FBX wrote:


Actually I meant the mini-din to SCART adapter cable. Is is the same one you used to hook the gscartsw-lite up to?


Oh! Yes.


Okay so the root of the issue you now know has to be something with the gscartsw-lite and/or the power supplied to it.
_________________
Framemeister profiles: http://www.firebrandx.com/framemeisterprofiles.html

NES NTSC Palettes: http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

SNES Serial DB: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HYLy_TTDop_FzuX6qnxuQI43upg4raXfno582taO744/pubhtml


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 6:44 pm 



Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 47
So I'm looking into upgrading to a 4K TV. I'm guessing the best way to use the XRGB is to let it scale to 720p then let the TV upscale that to 4K? That way its using a whole integer scale?


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 8:27 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 487
jamisonia wrote:
So I'm looking into upgrading to a 4K TV. I'm guessing the best way to use the XRGB is to let it scale to 720p then let the TV upscale that to 4K? That way its using a whole integer scale?

If you want integer scaling all the way to 4K, you'll need to either make sure that your display will actually do integer scaling (probably not) or you'll need to use an external scaler that will integer scale to 4K (probably doesn't exist at this point in time; though I'm simply not aware of any).


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 10:00 pm 



Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 47
Really? I guess I assumed that 240 and 720 are evenly divisible into 4K, so that's all you needed. Go to 720 and let the display scale from there. I guess not then?


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 2:25 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 487
jamisonia wrote:
Really? I guess I assumed that 240 and 720 are evenly divisible into 4K, so that's all you needed. Go to 720 and let the display scale from there. I guess not then?

Oh, of course they're evenly divisible; the problem is that there aren't a lot of devices or displays that will do integer scaling.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 2:55 pm 



Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 47
Okay then maybe I'm not familiar with what integer scaling is. I was the impression that integer scaling is scaling by an even amount, so doubling the pixels or whatnot, and that was the issue with getting 240p to work with 1080p with perfect pixels. 1080 isn't divisible by 240, so you had to stretch pixels. So what I mean is if I use the XRGB Mini to go to 720 then the set takes the 720 to 2160 that's there should be no stretching of pixels. I thought that's what integer scaling is.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 3:57 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 487
Perhaps I don't have an appropriate understanding of the subject, but my understanding of integer scaling is simple doubling/tripling/etc. of the pixels, but most scalers don't do that--they'll just stretch the image, leaving blurry/smeared edges, which is fine for film and TV, but awful for gaming.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 4:10 pm 


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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 11196
Location: Germany
Quote:
I thought that's what integer scaling is.

the TV won't do that though. Instead of will apply the same scaling algorithm without paying any attention to possible integer scaling factors. Neverthless doing 720p on the FM and then 720p to 4K on the TV is still the better option. The FM only has so many resources (= resolution) available to do a 4.5 scale and the results are not perfect. By feeding this 4.5 scaled 1080p image to the TV, you're basically just magnifying the errors. The TV on the other hand has enough resolution to do a 720p to 4K scale including linear filtering and it will still look very very good.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 6:03 pm 



Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 47
So Fudoh, would it make sense just to buy a OSSC? I've been thinking about it, but with the questionable 720p compatibility with displays I was concerned that 480p not being evenly divisible would be an inferior solution. It sounds like that doesn't matter then.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 8:08 pm 


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Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 2071
Location: DFW area, Texas
Fudoh wrote:
Quote:
I thought that's what integer scaling is.

the TV won't do that though. Instead of will apply the same scaling algorithm without paying any attention to possible integer scaling factors. Neverthless doing 720p on the FM and then 720p to 4K on the TV is still the better option. The FM only has so many resources (= resolution) available to do a 4.5 scale and the results are not perfect. By feeding this 4.5 scaled 1080p image to the TV, you're basically just magnifying the errors. The TV on the other hand has enough resolution to do a 720p to 4K scale including linear filtering and it will still look very very good.


I recall there being some Panasonic brands of 4K that actually have an integer scale option, but only for 1080p. In which case of course it would be better to use 1080p from the FM. But then of course you end up with choosing between 8x and 10x total scaling of 240p content instead of the perfect 9x.

That said, I really think the OSSC is the better choice for 4K TVs, especially if you make sure to get one that is friendly with the OSSC's 4x and 5x scale options. The downside to the OSSC that the Framemeister dominates in is 'infinite' zoom (technically not infinite, but you get the idea), where the FM can take small active areas and blow them up in any amount of integers you want. The perfect example of this being Game Boy graphics. You can blow that up to 7x to fill a 1080p screen, whereas you're stuck with the basic 5x max scale on the OSSC.

I doubt there's room or the ability to program the OSSC to overscale like that, but it would be quite a game-changer if it could!
_________________
Framemeister profiles: http://www.firebrandx.com/framemeisterprofiles.html

NES NTSC Palettes: http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

SNES Serial DB: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HYLy_TTDop_FzuX6qnxuQI43upg4raXfno582taO744/pubhtml


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 9:21 pm 


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Joined: 02 Oct 2010
Posts: 2973
Location: UK
I nealy bought one of those Panasonics, but apparently using the integer scale mode disables game mode :(
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https://www.evolvehq.com/players/buckoa51
OSSC Forums - http://www.videogameperfection.com/forums
Please check the XRGB Wiki before posting about the OSSC, XRGB Mini or XRGB3 - http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/Main_Page


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 1:27 am 



Joined: 29 Apr 2016
Posts: 117
Based on what I've observed in two different 4K TV models (Sony X900E, LG C7), whether you're scaling up from 720p or 1080p from the XRGB-Mini is really not an issue.

Both look fine. Even if the TV is not integer scaling*, that doesn't mean the result is horribly blurry, it's just very slightly smoothed (and that's only apparent when you get super close up to the TV). As long as your XRGB-Mini is itself doing an integer scale from 240p (3x in 720p, 4x or 5x in 1080p) you still end up with big nicely-defined pixels on your 4K TV.

(*Actually the X900E does offer integer scaling of 1080p in the Graphics mode, but I personally do not find this very useful. If anything, it just more clearly reveals when the original pixels are not perfectly sharp. I prefer the minor smoothing in the Game mode.)


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 2:36 pm 



Joined: 07 Feb 2018
Posts: 108
Location: Austria
I am not using the firebrand profiles for the Framemeister because I cannot download them yet. So I try to figure out my own settings or take the settings from youtube videos.

I want to hear your guys opinions about some framemeister settings

Do you guys think the dreamcast settings some guy made for s video output can be applied to rgb scart as well or would it be better to use the VGA Settings? VGA is some type of RGB too so it should be no problem.

Same question for the gamecube. Are the S video settings the better choice for rgb scart ouput or shall I stick the settings some guys figured out for the gamecube component cable?


I tried out both settings and for me and the VGA/Component settings looked the best to me.

But I am still curious if there are some own settings out there for rgb scart or not.

Would be pleased hearing some opinions.


Last edited by Revolver Ocelot on Sun May 20, 2018 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 2:51 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 487
Revolver Ocelot wrote:
Do you guys think the dreamcast settings some guy made for s video ouput can be applied to rgb scart as well or would it be better to use the VGA Settings? VGA is some type of RGB too so it should be no problem.

Same question for the gamecube. Are the S video settings the better choice for rgb scart ouput or shall i stick the settings some guys figured out for the gamecube component cable?

S-Video is closer to YPbPr than RGB, and significantly brighter. VGA would be much closer, but regular RGB from the Dreamcast is going to be interlaced and probably has some other differing characteristics.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 3:16 pm 



Joined: 07 Feb 2018
Posts: 108
Location: Austria
@nmalinoski Ok thanks for the information. So in that case you would recommend to try to find or figure out some own settings that are cut out for the RGB Scart output of the Dreamcast und Gamecube and not stick to the S-video, Component or VGA Settings?


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 3:39 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 487
Revolver Ocelot wrote:
@nmalinoski Ok thanks for the information. So in that case you would recommend to try to find or figure out some own settings that are cut out for the RGB Scart output of the Dreamcast und Gamecube and not stick to the S-video, Component or VGA Settings?

If the VGA settings look good to you, use those until you can get FBX's profiles on your Framemeister.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 5:44 pm 



Joined: 07 Feb 2018
Posts: 108
Location: Austria
nmalinoski wrote:
Revolver Ocelot wrote:
@nmalinoski Ok thanks for the information. So in that case you would recommend to try to find or figure out some own settings that are cut out for the RGB Scart output of the Dreamcast und Gamecube and not stick to the S-video, Component or VGA Settings?

If the VGA settings look good to you, use those until you can get FBX's profiles on your Framemeister.


Yeah it looks quite nice to me. I will stick to these settings until I have sd card reader and I can finally download the profiles from Firebrand for usage. Will get one in the next couple of weeks. Till that the stop gap solution should be fine..


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 4:13 am 


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Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 2071
Location: DFW area, Texas
Revolver Ocelot wrote:
nmalinoski wrote:
Revolver Ocelot wrote:
@nmalinoski Ok thanks for the information. So in that case you would recommend to try to find or figure out some own settings that are cut out for the RGB Scart output of the Dreamcast und Gamecube and not stick to the S-video, Component or VGA Settings?

If the VGA settings look good to you, use those until you can get FBX's profiles on your Framemeister.


Yeah it looks quite nice to me. I will stick to these settings until I have sd card reader and I can finally download the profiles from Firebrand for usage. Will get one in the next couple of weeks. Till that the stop gap solution should be fine..


I don't recall making any profiles for S-Video on the Dreamcast. In fact, I believe I only ever made a Toro Box profile for the DC on the Framemeister.
_________________
Framemeister profiles: http://www.firebrandx.com/framemeisterprofiles.html

NES NTSC Palettes: http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

SNES Serial DB: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HYLy_TTDop_FzuX6qnxuQI43upg4raXfno582taO744/pubhtml


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 6:46 am 



Joined: 07 Feb 2018
Posts: 108
Location: Austria
@FBX I see. Well I found the S-Video Profile for the Dreamcast at youtube. I am not sure if this profile was created by the guy that made video himself or he got it from someone else.

Anyway I will keep my current settings till I can download your profiles or usage.

I am really curious how well they will work on my pal gamecube and pal Dreamcast.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 6:47 pm 


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Joined: 25 May 2018
Posts: 1
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Very nice work! Thanks for posting all these!


FBX wrote:
It seems to me there wasn't much interest in the SCART labels I was making for the North American territory of consoles, so I'm going to stop work on them. I've uploaded the zip this morning containing all the ones I have finished with 300 dpi settings. Below is the zip once again:

http://www.firebrandx.com/downloads/scartlabels/Finished-Labels.zip


And for posterity, here is a 25% preview of the ones I had completed:

Image


-FBX


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 11:59 am 



Joined: 20 Apr 2015
Posts: 127
I have an RGB modded PC Engine Duo which I am using with my Framemesiter.

In order to get a picture I have to put SYNC LEVEL somewhere between 24 and 28. BUT: It only works if I switch on the PC Engine *AFTER* I switch on the Framemeister, or else I get a No Input image. Alternatively I can go to the SYNC LEVEL and change it for example from 24 to 25 and back, then I get a picture just fine.

Any idea what's going on here? Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2018 1:33 pm 


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Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 2071
Location: DFW area, Texas
Everblue wrote:
I have an RGB modded PC Engine Duo which I am using with my Framemesiter.

In order to get a picture I have to put SYNC LEVEL somewhere between 24 and 28. BUT: It only works if I switch on the PC Engine *AFTER* I switch on the Framemeister, or else I get a No Input image. Alternatively I can go to the SYNC LEVEL and change it for example from 24 to 25 and back, then I get a picture just fine.

Any idea what's going on here? Thanks!


That's pretty weird. What RGB mod is it?
_________________
Framemeister profiles: http://www.firebrandx.com/framemeisterprofiles.html

NES NTSC Palettes: http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

SNES Serial DB: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HYLy_TTDop_FzuX6qnxuQI43upg4raXfno582taO744/pubhtml


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 5:40 am 



Joined: 20 Apr 2015
Posts: 127
Hi, I don't know the details but I contacted the modder and he told me to put a 470 Ohm resistor on pin 20 of the scart cable.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 8:12 pm 


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Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 2071
Location: DFW area, Texas
Everblue wrote:
Hi, I don't know the details but I contacted the modder and he told me to put a 470 Ohm resistor on pin 20 of the scart cable.


Okay so he's having you attenuate the csync line. If that works, then logic would dictate the RGB mod wasn't outputting csync to proper levels.
_________________
Framemeister profiles: http://www.firebrandx.com/framemeisterprofiles.html

NES NTSC Palettes: http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

SNES Serial DB: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HYLy_TTDop_FzuX6qnxuQI43upg4raXfno582taO744/pubhtml


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:28 am 



Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 47
So I just got an LG B7, and I found two things. 1 I think 720p settings and FBX profiles look better. It made my SNES look like the SNES mini. 2. I'm sorry guys I hate scanlines. I never really liked them on 1080p, and I feel like they're even worse here. I like the idea of scan lines don't get me wrong and I think they look good on CRTs. But I find on they just darken the picture way way too much. I can't seem to be able to compensate for this by adjusting the picture on the XRGB without really messing up blacks in the game. Oh well. One thing I like about the 720p profiles is there is a lot less to choose from. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing, but it feels less overwhelming. And the Deep Color profiles worked.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:17 pm 



Joined: 12 Mar 2018
Posts: 26
I sent my Framemeister back to Solaris Japan for repairs at the end of March but I haven't heard back from them with the exception when I email them, which I received the same answer that it's not ready yet. It's been over two months and I wonder if the logical course of action is to wait longer. Anybody want to toss any suggestions?


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:26 pm 



Joined: 16 Jun 2018
Posts: 1
Hello everyone
I am new to this forum and haven't found any thread to post my question except this one, so hopefully I am in the right place.

I have my old vhs/dvd recorder and snes hooked up via scart to the rgb input of my framemeister xrgb mini and going out via hdmi. Between the scart cable and the rgb port of the framemeister I have also set up a sync stripper. Everything with my snes works perfectly. With my vhs / dvd recorder that is another story. First I got no input signal for a very long time (about 5 minutes) then I get a short moment with a green colored flashing screen including audio and then I get no screen with no audio again. I have managed to get a consistend black screen with consistent audio by turning the sync mode off. However that is about all I managed to do. Is there something else I could try?

For further clarity my vhs /dvd recorder is a panasonic nv-vp30.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-mini Framemeister
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:08 pm 



Joined: 21 Oct 2015
Posts: 8
Any copy protection on the VHS you are feeding the framemeister? I don't know if that affects it or not but you could try another VHS tape.

Is your SCART output on the VHS player, and the SCART cable you are using, wired for RGB?

I think a lot of VHS output SVideo over SCART. I might be wrong though.


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