Problems with Progear - flickering all over the place!

dpful · Post by **dpful** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 5:01 pm

The real question:
Would capcom put their standard Asia boards in blue cases with a US bio?

Beyond that question, anything's else would have to be the answer-pheonix mod? That would be the most profitable for the culprit if it was possible- 50$ street fighters turned into 300$ progears. And on that note, if someone was realy TRYING to pull off a secret bootleg, why not just do it to US boards? Then no one would ever know.

As for the stickers, can't you put some effort into putting them back just like you took them off and make it look OK? You should check those out- I think that when you remove them, silver writing stays on the board underneath it, and if you could see that if the silver writing didn't match exactly with the sticker, than it has been removed at some time. That might answer the question? Of course, maybe someone could have gotten their hands on a sticker like that, so....

Also, double check the Jamma plug, as well as the connector (maybe a bent pin?), and for new power, you can usually get old computer power supplies pretty cheap.

On the bright side, if it's working again, it's got to be either a connection or power problem- and I'd go with a connection problem (do other games work OK?). There's a lot of pins on there and they're all important, and if one is corroded or has dirt on it...
Also, you can't really do this to CPS2 boards, but in general, you can lightly flex a pcb to identify loose chips as well as connections (whatever's loose will get better or worse as you flex the board and find out where it is).

dpful · Post by **dpful** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 5:04 pm

dpful wrote: As for the stickers,

Oh yeah, if they said that the batteries been changed, than it's obviously been opened, and I'm sure they didn't have capcom do it.

thegreathopper · Post by **thegreathopper** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 5:08 pm

Why dont you open the case up?
I have opened 3 cps 2 games in the last hour and replaced the batteries,
one of the games was progear

This game board is different than other cps 2 games, when you remove the plastic casing there is a big daughter board plugged on top of the main board,
this could easily become loose if the board was dropped in transit...

You will never know until you open it up..

Also, Yes you can peel back the Capcom stickers over the two screw very easily and they stick back down after..

dpful · Post by **dpful** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 5:10 pm

I would contact them and confront them with the details
*it deosn't work (perhaps because of the bootleg factor?)
*you're sure it's a bootleg, based on the Asia connectors (maybe they could explain why it's like that?)
*so you'd like a replacement

Maybe you'd get the real answers or a board that works properly. (Unless it's something wrong with your setup, of course)
Do you have other CPS2's to test? If the power works for them, it should work for progear.

*edit* I'd open the case up too in the meantime (got to have the special screwdriver bit). That daughter board thing sounds right on the money.

Naiera · Post by **Naiera** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 5:14 pm

Other games work fine on my "arcade box". I've played Guwange, ESP Ra.De, Armed Police Batrider and Raiden Fighers Jet without any trouble. Only ESP Ra.De. left of those in my collection, but it worked just fine yesterday, both with and without the jamma-extension I had made for when I got some CPS2 games. Progear is the only CPS2 stuff I have to test with.

Took a pic so you can see what kind of setup I'm using.

I've already contacted Cosmic. They kept going on about voltage things when I was talking about stuff that didn't work at all. Guess I'll have to wait until tonight or next week for the next answer.

Naiera · Post by **Naiera** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 5:21 pm

This just keeps getting better! Screen just went black after running a demo for about an hour and a half. Now something smells, a bit like a power supply getting grilled or something, but not as bad. Woo

ESP Ra.De. works fine so it's not the screen running for too long.

You never know what's going to happen with this shit.

I think I'm just gonna wait and see what Cosmic says. This is priceless already. What a farce.

dpful · Post by **dpful** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 5:25 pm

It's not really worth saying, but in my experience, CPS2's are pretty steady; not too picky about power supplies, and if the other one works, it's probably not the power.

If you spent 5 bucks on ebay for some of those screwdriver bits, you could avoid hassles and shipping costs for a replacement progear after a week- it might be worth it.

Does anyone know exactly which bit to buy? (looking at my cps2)......

Sorry, rather than the "gamebits" or whatever, it's a star shaped allen wrench with a hole in the center of it. I suppose it could be a screwdriver bit, too- I take mine apart with the allen wrench variety.

I've bought stuff from people before to find it's broken, then written them about it, saying that I'd need a replacement, and also mentioning that I'd be willing to try and fix it myself first if they gave me permission (so they don't think I broke it myself in the first place). They have usually said OK to avoid the hassle, believing me that's it's broken anyway's and they're liable.
You might want to start a dialogue with them.

dpful · Post by **dpful** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 5:30 pm

Also, god forbid that you have any problems with them, but don't forget that you could remind them that their rep at shmups forum in also on the line.

thegreathopper · Post by **thegreathopper** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 5:37 pm

Naiera wrote:This just keeps getting better! Screen just went black after running a demo for about an hour and a half. Now something smells, a bit like a power supply getting grilled or something, but not as bad. Woo ESP Ra.De. works fine so it's not the screen running for too long.

You never know what's going to happen with this shit.

I think I'm just gonna wait and see what Cosmic says. This is priceless already. What a farce.

If the game is not running correctly, you should not leave it powered on, it is not a voltage problem, it might not even be the game board, it could be the motherboard, but if you do not want to look inside you better send it back to Queenie before you blow it up..

Naiera · Post by **Naiera** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 5:59 pm

Yeah, if it's not already fried...

raiden · Post by **raiden** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 4:01 am

have you tried Progear without the Jamma extension? Even if you can´t play it that way, I´d check just to make sure the extension is not the problem. It´s an additional source of possible loose contacts and an added resistor reducing power sent to the board. Especially long and thin cables are likely to do that, maybe it´s sufficient to swap out the +5V, +12V and ground lines.

Naiera · Post by **Naiera** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:07 am

ESP Ra.De. works fine with the extension, and it's physically impossible to connect the CPS2 game without the extension anyway.

It's going back to Cosmic now. Getting a replacement when they get one in.

oxtsu · Post by **oxtsu** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:30 am

dpful wrote:The real question:
Would capcom put their standard Asia boards in blue cases with a US bio?

True, it's hard to understand why they would do this. I've seen the exact thing on two other occasions, one was an AvP, the other a D&D SOM. The reason for it is still unknown apparently.

MKL · Post by **MKL** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:38 pm

dpful wrote:the real motivation to meddle with the board is so you can take an aliens vs. predator board and swap with progear roms.

No, this can't be done. Different games have different PALs and these chips are protected and you can't make a copy of them. You can run Progear only if you have the specific Progear PALs and the same holds for all the other CPS2 games. What Cosmicco did here is a simple region conversion of an Asian Progear into a US Progear, since in order to do this you just have to replace the program ROMs (and these are widely available now).

raiden · Post by **raiden** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 3:30 pm

oxtsu wrote:
dpful wrote:The real question:
Would capcom put their standard Asia boards in blue cases with a US bio?
True, it's hard to understand why they would do this. I've seen the exact thing on two other occasions, one was an AvP, the other a D&D SOM. The reason for it is still unknown apparently.

there´s another one: supaT described his "special version" of Dimahoo here some time ago. Doesn´t seem that uncommon any more. Could be just a worldly reason like they ran out of green cases and had a surplus of blue ones over.

rtw · Post by **rtw** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 8:52 am

Apologies if this has been posted before but here is what happened to me:

Recently I tried to fill a hole in the available CPS2 dumps by buying a Progear ASIA Grey. My intention was for Razoola to dump it for everybody and then convert it to the Phoenix edition for me. Cosmicco found one for me and I asked them to send it straight to Raz. Upon arrival Raz discovered that the game was a bootleg.

The sticker on the cart was just a photocopy, a copied sticker or a missing one is normal in HK but now we have to careful...

When it started up it said Phoenix Edition. Hit the test button when the logo is showing and enter the region selection screen. Turns out the bootleggers have removed all traces of the cps2shock web address.

The game identifies itself as ASIA but when you use the region selection menu and set it to original it goes back to US. The ASIA version is not yet dumped. If someone has it maybe they could consider to lend it to Raz so that it may be dumped.

The cart itself was a Japanese with a grey shell. Evident from the placement of the connectors.

This means that bootlegger are now taking old Japanese CPS2 games, sticking a grey cover onto them and upgrading the game from an old title to a newer one. Then charging quite a lot for them.

This is not a small scale effort, looks at the SMD's the dedicated PAL for address decoding and all the extra boards. In addition the PCB is patched several places.

http://img148.echo.cx/img148/9840/progearripoff9fj.jpg

I believe Cosmicco are innocent, they did not know that they were selling me a bootleg and they accepted the return of the PCB.

I sent it back, cost me an arm and a leg but this I do not want.

rtw

raiden · Post by **raiden** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:19 am

this is heavy. Apparently Razoola´s secret isn´t secret anymore. Seeing what has happened, his intention to keep it secret suddenly makes a lot of sense. The appearance of bootlegs isn´t my primary concern, though: certain old CPS2 boards might become rare after this goes on for a while. Wasn´t this was happened to Batsugun normal version, too?

PsikyoPshumpPshooterP · Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:36 am

rtw wrote:Apologies if this has been posted before but here is what happened to me:

Recently I tried to fill a hole in the available CPS2 dumps by buying a Progear ASIA Grey. My intention was for Razoola to dump it for everybody and then convert it to the Phoenix edition for me. Cosmicco found one for me and I asked them to send it straight to Raz. Upon arrival Raz discovered that the game was a bootleg.

The sticker on the cart was just a photocopy, a copied sticker or a missing one is normal in HK but now we have to careful...

When it started up it said Phoenix Edition. Hit the test button when the logo is showing and enter the region selection screen. Turns out the bootleggers have removed all traces of the cps2shock web address.

The game identifies itself as ASIA but when you use the region selection menu and set it to original it goes back to US. The ASIA version is not yet dumped. If someone has it maybe they could consider to lend it to Raz so that it may be dumped.

The cart itself was a Japanese with a grey shell. Evident from the placement of the connectors.

This means that bootlegger are now taking old Japanese CPS2 games, sticking a grey cover onto them and upgrading the game from an old title to a newer one. Then charging quite a lot for them.

This is not a small scale effort, looks at the SMD's the dedicated PAL for address decoding and all the extra boards. In addition the PCB is patched several places.

http://img148.echo.cx/img148/9840/progearripoff9fj.jpg

I believe Cosmicco are innocent, they did not know that they were selling me a bootleg and they accepted the return of the PCB.

I sent it back, cost me an arm and a leg but this I do not want.

rtw

i just bought a grey asian eng board from cosmicco.hope this isnt a bootleg. you think this is your board? i spent $255 on it..what is the difference of the boot and original game?

rtw · Post by **rtw** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:27 am

PsikyoPshumpPshooterP wrote:
rtw wrote:Apologies if this has been posted before but here is what happened to me:

Recently I tried to fill a hole in the available CPS2 dumps by buying a Progear ASIA Grey. My intention was for Razoola to dump it for everybody and then convert it to the Phoenix edition for me. Cosmicco found one for me and I asked them to send it straight to Raz. Upon arrival Raz discovered that the game was a bootleg.

The sticker on the cart was just a photocopy, a copied sticker or a missing one is normal in HK but now we have to careful...

When it started up it said Phoenix Edition. Hit the test button when the logo is showing and enter the region selection screen. Turns out the bootleggers have removed all traces of the cps2shock web address.

The game identifies itself as ASIA but when you use the region selection menu and set it to original it goes back to US. The ASIA version is not yet dumped. If someone has it maybe they could consider to lend it to Raz so that it may be dumped.

The cart itself was a Japanese with a grey shell. Evident from the placement of the connectors.

This means that bootlegger are now taking old Japanese CPS2 games, sticking a grey cover onto them and upgrading the game from an old title to a newer one. Then charging quite a lot for them.

This is not a small scale effort, looks at the SMD's the dedicated PAL for address decoding and all the extra boards. In addition the PCB is patched several places.

http://img148.echo.cx/img148/9840/progearripoff9fj.jpg

I believe Cosmicco are innocent, they did not know that they were selling me a bootleg and they accepted the return of the PCB.

I sent it back, cost me an arm and a leg but this I do not want.

rtw
i just bought a grey asian eng board from cosmicco.hope this isnt a bootleg. you think this is your board? i spent $255 on it..what is the difference of the boot and original game?

The inside is a bit different with lot's of specially made PCB's, the board does not match the logical region with the connectors. I.e. ASIA has one protruding in the corner but the easiest way to determine if it's a boot is that when it starts up it says Phoenix Version. Like this:

http://img233.echo.cx/img233/3580/capco ... ion5as.jpg

At this point hit the test menu, you will enter the region selection, if all traces of cps2shock have been removed you have a boot.

I don't think it's my PCB, because I sent it back only a week ago.

rtw

Naiera · Post by **Naiera** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:24 am

I just got my new grey board, but it's broken! The area around the connectors on the end is smashed and something's loose inside either the A or B board. I'm sick of this crap!

Post by **system11** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:38 am

Wish I'd seen this thread sooner.

Flickering graphics on CPS2 games due to dry/cracked solder joins on those interconnect plugs is very, VERY common - especially in home use setups where the owner had 1 A board and multiple Bs. It actually affects CPS1 too. Of course you'd have had to open them up to fix it, and that's not your responsibility, but that's what is wrong with it.

As for why you have the asian interconnect setup, who knows.. Maybe Capcom did it on purpose towards the end of the run - you'd be surprised how often this happens. They start to run out of parts to complete the run, and find themselves short - now anything gets used. I have a pinball machine that -from the factory- contains a few support beams that are clearly cut from an older game model, the art is still on one side. Maybe someone had a progear die on them and swapped it into whatever spares they had available. If it claimed US version, it's very likely not to have been a 'bootleg' (although is running desuicided original code on only barely modified original hardware still a bootleg?) I had good experiences with Cosmic when I used to use them a lot, but the packaging was sometimes not brilliant.

Naiera · Post by **Naiera** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:41 am

It's a boot! Says PHOENIX EDITION quite clearly when it starts up.

Works fine though. I got all the broken plastic pieces out and there are none of the problems I had with the last board.

Now I just have to make Cosmic send me an ORIGINAL version of the game

Oh, and here's a shot of all the plastic that came out of the B board.

rtw · Post by **rtw** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:18 am

Naiera wrote:It's a boot! Says PHOENIX EDITION quite clearly when it starts up.

Works fine though. I got all the broken plastic pieces out and there are none of the problems I had with the last board.

Now I just have to make Cosmic send me an ORIGINAL version of the game

Oh, and here's a shot of all the plastic that came out of the B board.

Two of those plastic bits are supposed to cover the holes on the CPS2 cart

Look here:

http://cps2shock.retrogames.com/graphic ... inunit.gif

rtw

Naiera · Post by **Naiera** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 11:53 am

Yes, it's in that area the damage is. There's nothing to hold the two covers in place any more.

rtw · Post by **rtw** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:33 pm

bloodflowers wrote: As for why you have the asian interconnect setup, who knows.. Maybe Capcom did it on purpose towards the end of the run - you'd be surprised how often this happens. They start to run out of parts to complete the run, and find themselves short - now anything gets used.
I had good experiences with Cosmic when I used to use them a lot, but the packaging was sometimes not brilliant.

Did you seem my previous post ? Just to reiterate:

I call these bootlegs because of the following (ProGear):

. The carts are a mix and match. I.e. mismatch between the
connector type and colour of the shell.

. From the PCB image you clearly see non original devices:
http://img148.echo.cx/img148/9840/progearripoff9fj.jpg

. The original ProGear has SIMM's, there are no SIMM's on
this picture or sockets. This is a converted CPS2 older title.
Take a cheap outdated CPS2 PCB and convert it to a coveted title!

. The PCB has cut tracks and solder joints.

. The PCB is equipped with a large FPGA to handle the
changed ROM addressing.

. The software version has been hacked. I.e. enter the
region selection screen (press test button when displayed)
on the normal Phoenix and you will see cps2shock.
This has been removed.

. The region has been hacked, the board I got said ASIA on
startup but the original version was USA when I set the region
to default!

Just to clarify, if a normal Progear is converted to a Phoenix version by
just changing the program ROM's I do not classify it as a bootleg. The
PCB is original, all that is different is a missing battery and decrypted
program code. I call these boards "Phoenix versions"

Lastly I do not believe Cosmicco realized that they were selling bootlegss,
after I described these issues they went through their stock to identify
possible bootlegs.

rtw

Naiera · Post by **Naiera** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:14 pm

So what I have might NOT be a bootleg? After all they didn't ship my game out until friday of last week, so one would think they'd have had time to check to see if it's a boot.

Post by **Dave_K.** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:42 pm

I'd think a suicide free (Phoenix modded) Progear would be worth more than an original...no battery changes, ever!

dpful · Post by **dpful** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:53 pm

Naiera wrote:So what I have might NOT be a bootleg? After all they didn't ship my game out until friday of last week, so one would think they'd have had time to check to see if it's a boot.

Like rtw said (and I agree), it's hardware differences that make a boot. You'd have to look inside yours and check for those extra things.
And also, like posted above, maybe your boot's better than the original? (no suicide?)
Shitty broken plastic, though.
Where do you draw the line? You paid a lot for it, right?
I wish I had a progear.

Naiera · Post by **Naiera** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:56 pm

Paid $369 including EMS originally, then an extra $45 to ship the other crappy one back.

So yeah, that's a lot to me.

In any case I'm asking for a partial refund for the broken plastic. It doesn't matter much to me but it's still a pain to have a board with a giant hole in it.

The game says it's for Asia, btw. So the program matches the board color, at least.

rtw · Post by **rtw** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:35 pm

Naiera wrote:Paid $369 including EMS originally, then an extra $45 to ship the other crappy one back.

So yeah, that's a lot to me.

In any case I'm asking for a partial refund for the broken plastic. It doesn't matter much to me but it's still a pain to have a board with a giant hole in it.

The game says it's for Asia, btw. So the program matches the board color, at least.

Easy test to see if it's a boot:

. Start it up
. When the Phoenix Edition logo appears. Hit the test switch.
. You will be taken to the region menu.
. Does the word cps2shock appear anywhere ?
. Select the original mode in the region selector.
. Does it go back to USA ?

Do it and tell us what you see...

I sadly suspect it is a boot

rtw

shmups.system11.org

Problems with Progear - flickering all over the place!

progear...cps 2

coinop and cosmicco.