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 Post subject: Modding an Agetec DC stick, advice needed.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:24 pm 


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I'm intending to swap out the stick and buttons on my Agetec for something better, as the stick is just too loose for my liking. At the moment I am intending to use a Seimitsu LS-32 stick, and Sanwa OBSF-30 buttons.

My question is really regarding the stick as I am looking for a stick that has a small deadspot, and smaller throw, and I am led to believe this makes the LS-32 preferable over, say a Sanwa JLF-TP-8YT. Is this a fair assessment?

Also If anyone has an LS-32 in an Agetec, could you give me the measurement from the casing to the top of the ball (ie, the amount of stick that extends above the case), and also the diameter of the ball top as well.
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 Post subject: Re: Modding an Agetec DC stick, advice needed.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:52 pm 


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I don't know the exact height but if you use a LS-32 you should top mount it to the metal plate , unless you're one of the guys who really likes low action.
Remember that famous agetec modding tutorial from the french guy? He himself said in the forum that his LS-32 mod sits unused under the table because it's too low.
This was the reason I decided for a LS-56 over the LS-32 ...and the height is just perfect if bottom-mounted to the original plastic routing.
(BTW apart from that the LS-56 is a really great stick ....throw is just as small as the LS-32 , and the engage is even smaller - feels just right for shmups)


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 Post subject: Re: Modding an Agetec DC stick, advice needed.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:33 pm 


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Thanks for the advice. Maybe I'll look into getting an LS-56 instead then. Not that it would really make much difference to the work needing to be done, but I'd rather not be top mounting things unless I really have to.
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 Post subject: Re: Modding an Agetec DC stick, advice needed.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 5:05 pm 


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Don´t know where I got the pic from, but you could mount the LS-32 this way:

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Modding an Agetec DC stick, advice needed.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:28 pm 


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From the images I have seen, I'm under the impression that the LS-32 and the LS-32-01 have a slightly different mounting plate. The one in the post above is definitely an xx-xx-01 as it has the 5-pin connector instead of the individual microswitch quick connects. Going on what I've seen the LS-32 "standard" wouldn't be able to be mounted like that, as it's plate is completely flat.

But that's an interesting idea nonetheless which I'll consider.
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 Post subject: Re: Modding an Agetec DC stick, advice needed.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:14 pm 


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Couldn't you just buy that mounting plate seperatly though? And why do you prefer individual connects?
Nice mod btw , maybe I'll try this aswell.


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 Post subject: Re: Modding an Agetec DC stick, advice needed.
PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 12:17 am 


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I have a LS-32 in my Agetec and the distance from the top to the top of the ball is 53mm. My LS is bottom mounted.


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 Post subject: Re: Modding an Agetec DC stick, advice needed.
PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:39 am 


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Quote:
Couldn't you just buy that mounting plate seperatly though? And why do you prefer individual connects?
Nice mod btw , maybe I'll try this aswell.


As I haven't actually bought anything yet, I can just buy the LS-32-01 as this is a stock part from the supplier, so that's not a problem. Don't get me wrong; I don't prefer the individual connects. Seeing as the xx-01 would be quicker to fit, and also allow this mounting opportunity as seen above, it's likely that this is what I'll end up doing.

Thanks to the poster who gave the measurements for the bottom-mounted Seimitsu as well.
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 Post subject: Re: Modding an Agetec DC stick, advice needed.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:47 am 


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LS-32-01 comes with the "s-shaped" mounting plate, while the non-pcb model comes with a regular flat plate. Both plates are fully interchangeable though.

In a couple mods I did some weeks ago I mounted the stick without any mounting plate directly under the metal top. By adding an acrylic cover the stick height is in the 23-24 mm range, just perfect.


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 Post subject: Re: Modding an Agetec DC stick, advice needed.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 4:58 pm 


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Thanks for the advice.

I put in an order today for the LS-32-01 and some Sanwa OBSF-30 buttons. I plan to fix it as was shown in the pictures above, as long as I'm happy that the plastic housing is sturdy enough. The parts should be here in a couple of days.
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 Post subject: Re: Modding an Agetec DC stick, advice needed.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:35 pm 


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Got my parts today, all looked good until I took the agetec apart and started "trying" to make the necessary modifications to the casing. Enlarging the holes in the metal face plate is an absolute nightmare, and I've currently got no idea how I'm going to achieve this. The last resort of a hand file is not an option. I'm currently considering building a brand new housing out of MDF, such is my frustration with that metal plate.

While I'm fuming over this, what is the pinout of the connector on the main agetec control board that will be linked to the joystick? I haven't seen this info anywhere, and it's sorta important lol.
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 Post subject: Re: Modding an Agetec DC stick, advice needed.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:12 pm 


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I´ve always used a "Stufenbohrer" to enlarge the holes to 30mm.
Image

Edit: Step drill :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Modding an Agetec DC stick, advice needed.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:15 am 


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Quote:
The last resort of a hand file is not an option.

Yes it is. I had to use a hand file to enlarge the holes on one stick of mine because back then I didn't have my electric drill. It just takes more time, while with a drill and the appropriate grinding bit it takes only like 10 seconds for each hole, but if you are very precise the result is the same.

Some people get rid of the top metal panel and switch it with an acrylic top. I guess it can be a nice option, however I've always preferred the feel of a rigid metal panel.

Regarding the agetec pcb connection, try use this pic as a reference. The section marked in red is the one with the joystick connections (i think this pic was made by MKL so it's 100% correct).
Image

I hope this helps.


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 Post subject: Re: Modding an Agetec DC stick, advice needed.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:26 am 


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I did have a few grinding bits for the power drill, they are made of a stone-type material, but they are clearly not intended to be used on metal as it erodes the bit faster than the metal . There are similar bits which claim they can be used on metal, but I'm scheptical about these, and I think that because the plate is so thin, the rate of wear on such a small area of the bit will still just cut straight through it. I've considered using a 30mm hole saw, but I think it would be tricky seeing as I'd only be trying to enlarge the hole by less than 1mm either side, I think the saw would keep slipping. I've seen bits like the one posted, so might look at trying one of these.

Thanks also for the picture of the PCB, that helps a lot.
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 Post subject: Re: Modding an Agetec DC stick, advice needed.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:28 pm 



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Before setting out to widen the holes, there are a few things that you need to be aware of if you want to make a good job:

The Agetec panel is thinner than an arcade panel (0.8mm vs 2mm or more) and the stock buttons are designed with that panel in mind: note the wider gap between the plastic clip and the button rim on a Sanwa button, designed for the thicker arcade panels:

Image

As you can see, the clips on the stock buttons effectively stop the buttons from moving or coming out of the holes:

Image

But when a Sanwa button is installed on the Agetec panel the clips serve no purpose whatsoever as they cannot even touch the panel. The only things that secure the button to the panel are the four bumps under the rim:

Image

Consequently the hole widening must be done very carefully: if you widen it too much the button will move in the hole and even come out if you hold the case upside down. And if the hole edge is not burr-free and perfectly smooth the buttons will not sit flush to the panel and get badly scratched by the rough, irregular edge everytime you swap them.

I dislike to use power tools (Dremel, etc.) as they are difficult to control and I find they don't give the best results anyway.

The first step I do is scoring the new hole outlines on the bottom face of the panel with a circle template and a sharp, pointed tool (e.g. a compass). This is done so I know I'm filing evenly along the edge and not too much on some points and less on others:

Image
(holes already widened here, it's just to show the circle template)

I then start filing the hole with a half-round hand file:

Image
(holes already widened here, it's just to show the file used)

I use the body of a Sanwa button (after removing plunger and switch) to check the hole widening process. Very often towards the end. When it's almost done I take a cylindrical object (PVC tube, big pen marker, etc.) with a diameter only slightly smaller than the hole and wrap a piece of sand paper (150-200 grit) around it and proceed to finish the widening so the the end result is a perfectly round, deburred hole where the sanwa button fits firmly but comfortably without getting scratched while being inserted/extracted. The final thing I do is polishing off the edge with 1000-1500 grit paper and soapy water. This gives a shiny edge that helps to prevent rust.

And here's the end result:

before
Image

after
Image

I also have lots of pics showing how to install a JLF and a LS-32 at the correct height, if you need


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 Post subject: Re: Modding an Agetec DC stick, advice needed.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:12 pm 


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Thanks for the guide. I managed to get the buttons fitted today. If you could post the guide on fitting the LS-32 that would be a great help
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 Post subject: Re: Modding an Agetec DC stick, advice needed.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 3:24 pm 



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eeeeww so many pics!

Anyway here's how I make a dual JLF/LS-32 mount on the Agetec. It's similar to the mod posted by schon-i but there is a crucial difference in the fasteners used: flush head self-clinching studs instead of countersink screws. The latter are obviously more accessible to most people but the former allow for a better job and have advantages.

Start by drilling four holes in the corner of the recessed area:

Image

Use a hand fretsaw to cut the recessed area off:

Image
Image

Remove what's left of the recessed area on the underside of the case. I prefer to avoid power tools and use a Stanley knife and a custom sanding block (not pictured) to make the area smooth. Part of the plastic pillar nearby needs to be cut also.

Image
Image

A small plastic support needs to be removed to make room for the Seimitsu S-shaped mounting plate:

Image
Image
Image

Use a Stanley knife to score an area 69mm x 59mm on the top of the case and use the fretsaw to remove as much plastic as you can along the score:

Image

Use a fine-tip marker to make the score more visible:

Image

Use precision files (flat and square ones) to file the remaining plastic withing the scored area:

Image
Image

until the Seimitsu plate fits the cutout:

Image
Image

The JLF and Seimitsu plates have holes in common when you put one on top of the other:

Image

Use both as a template to mark the points where you will make the common mounting holes and start drilling through them:

Image
Image
Image

Use a round precision file to widen the holes until they are exactly M4 size. High accuracy is mandatory because self-clinching studs aren't forgiving: if the holes are too wide, the clinching elements under the head won't block the studs that will spin freely in the hole when you try to tighten the nuts. If that happens the studs can't be used anymore.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Using a hollow metal cylinder as an anvil, hammer down the stud head (very light hammer blows) so it sinks into the plastic and doesn't spin freely anymore.

Image

Insert a flat washer in the threaded part of the stud and tighten the nut. This will cause the stud head to sink into the plastic until it's flush to the panel. (Note that if you use countersink screws instead of studs the plastic area between the screw hole and the edge of the cutout, which is already pretty thin, will be even weaker and subject to break due to the bigger countersink hole)

Image
Image

Repeat the above for the other three holes and you're done.

Image
Image

The nuts will act as spacers so the JLF and LS-32 will be at the correct height (bottom of balltop 24mm above top metal panel). Also, they can be installed without removing the top panel, something that can't be done if you used screws instead of studs.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Modding an Agetec DC stick, advice needed.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:35 pm 


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Thanks for this, I'll probably make a start on removing some of the casing this weekend.

I'm also looking to use "crimp" style connectors to attach to the buttons, rather than hardwiring them in. As far as I understand I need 2.8mm connectors like the ones shown.

Image

Are these the right sort?
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 Post subject: Re: Modding an Agetec DC stick, advice needed.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 3:50 am 


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those are the right connectors. not sure of the metric sizing, but when i order them i get the .110 female qd's.


@MKL---really clean work on that agetec mod :!:


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 Post subject: Re: Modding an Agetec DC stick, advice needed.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:37 am 


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Quote:
they can be installed without removing the top panel, something that can't be done if you used screws instead of studs.

This is indeed the most noticeable advantage of your mounting technique, MKL. Impressive :shock:



The 2.8 mm are the correct size to go. Be aware of the fact that they come in two different types: insulated, like the one in the pic above, easy to crimp, and non-insulated, which require some crimping skills but also make for a better result. I'm sure MKL has a lot to say about crimping and connector as well, so maybe we can hear some more from him.


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 Post subject: Re: Modding an Agetec DC stick, advice needed.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 1:36 pm 



Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 348
powerfuran wrote:
Quote:
they can be installed without removing the top panel, something that can't be done if you used screws instead of studs.

This is indeed the most noticeable advantage of your mounting technique, MKL. Impressive :shock:


Removing the panel can be a real pain because to do so you first have to remove the wires/quick disconnects from each button and even remove the buttons themselves if they are the screw-in type.

powerfuran wrote:
The 2.8 mm are the correct size to go. Be aware of the fact that they come in two different types: insulated, like the one in the pic above, easy to crimp, and non-insulated, which require some crimping skills but also make for a better result.


The insulated ones are most commonly used for home made jobbies (90% of stick modders use these). They can be insulated only in the non-mating part or fully insulated. The crimping tool for both has eye-shaped jaws:

http://www.allproducts.com/manufacture1 ... 3052-l.jpg (in the front)
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/To ... s/P255.jpg

The non-insulated ones, aka open barrel type, are found in more professional jobs (official arcade panels, high end console sticks). Unlike the previous type, the non-mating part has two crimp sections, one for the wire strands and one for the wire insulation. The crimping tool for this type has buttcheek-shaped jaws:

http://www.bandc.biz/ProductImages/BCT2_detail.jpg

They're definitely the best type, when crimped correctly.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Modding an Agetec DC stick, advice needed.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:03 pm 


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Got all the casing cut away and sanded down over the weekend. The mounting plate fits quite nicely in place, and I managed to get some self-clinching studs. I'm a little scheptical though, as the clinching element under the head doesn't look anywhere near aggresive enough to make any real indentation into the plastic.

I haven't tried yet, but for reference; after the studs have been hammered down and tightened, if you were to remove the nut from the understide, would the stud remain imbedded in the plastic, or would it fall out if turned upside down?
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 Post subject: Re: Modding an Agetec DC stick, advice needed.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:52 pm 



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DrTrouserPlank wrote:
Got all the casing cut away and sanded down over the weekend. The mounting plate fits quite nicely in place, and I managed to get some self-clinching studs. I'm a little scheptical though, as the clinching element under the head doesn't look anywhere near aggresive enough to make any real indentation into the plastic.


Self-clinching fasteners are meant to be used on metal panels so if they can clinch to metal they can obviously clinch to the softer plastic. What matters, as I said above, is the size and cleanliness of the holes (check my pics). My advise is that before trying on the Agetec case you should test the studs on some 2-3mm plastic sheet (like the scrap from the Agetec case). Make holes that are as close to an edge as the ones you made on the case and find the right amount of torque for properly installing the studs without cracking the plastic near the edge.

DrTrouserPlank wrote:
I haven't tried yet, but for reference; after the studs have been hammered down and tightened, if you were to remove the nut from the understide, would the stud remain imbedded in the plastic, or would it fall out if turned upside down?


They would stay firmly in the plastic and only come off with some effort. At any rate, the nuts need not be unscrewed as they're supposed to stay permanently on and act as spacers for the stick plates.

Bottom line: do enough testing and only try the studs on the Agetec when you're confident in your skills. I'm not responsible if something goes wrong.

And if you have doubts on something, post pics.


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 Post subject: Re: Modding an Agetec DC stick, advice needed.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:20 pm 


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MKL wrote:
DrTrouserPlank wrote:
Got all the casing cut away and sanded down over the weekend. The mounting plate fits quite nicely in place, and I managed to get some self-clinching studs. I'm a little scheptical though, as the clinching element under the head doesn't look anywhere near aggresive enough to make any real indentation into the plastic.


Self-clinching fasteners are meant to be used on metal panels so if they can clinch to metal they can obviously clinch to the softer plastic. What matters, as I said above, is the size and cleanliness of the holes (check my pics). My advise is that before trying on the Agetec case you should test the studs on some 2-3mm plastic sheet (like the scrap from the Agetec case). Make holes that are as close to an edge as the ones you made on the case and find the right amount of torque for properly installing the studs without cracking the plastic near the edge.

DrTrouserPlank wrote:
I haven't tried yet, but for reference; after the studs have been hammered down and tightened, if you were to remove the nut from the understide, would the stud remain imbedded in the plastic, or would it fall out if turned upside down?


They would stay firmly in the plastic and only come off with some effort. At any rate, the nuts need not be unscrewed as they're supposed to stay permanently on and act as spacers for the stick plates.

Bottom line: do enough testing and only try the studs on the Agetec when you're confident in your skills. I'm not responsible if something goes wrong.

And if you have doubts on something, post pics.


Ok thanks,

I just tested one in the scrap, and it secured fine. I'll have a couple more go's tomorrow before fixing them for real
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 Post subject: Re: Modding an Agetec DC stick, advice needed.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:13 am 


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Very good and useful advices.

MKL, mind if I ask you to post a pic of a finished work of yours?


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 Post subject: Re: Modding an Agetec DC stick, advice needed.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:22 pm 



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powerfuran wrote:
MKL, mind if I ask you to post a pic of a finished work of yours?


My old camera can't focus on mid distance subjects so a close-up of the whole stick would be blurry.
The stick in the above pics is LUN's so perhaps you've seen it in real life.

Here's a couple of HRAP mods. Most pics are of the inside but there's a few of the outside too (not so spectacular though):

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.ph ... tcount=353
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.ph ... tcount=387


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 Post subject: Re: Modding an Agetec DC stick, advice needed.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:36 pm 


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Stick's all mounted nicely now, just waiting for crimps to come. Hopefully tomorrow.
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 Post subject: Re: Modding an Agetec DC stick, advice needed.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:32 am 


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>MKL
Yeah, I believe I have seen LUN's stick while he was staying at my place.

I see that you didn't install the dark blue gate on the LS-32...well that makes sense I guess, because if you want to use the stick in 8-way mode, the dark blue gate is not needed at all. The light-blue gate is already there for 8-way operation.

>DrTrouserPlank
Let us know how it looks and works when you're done ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Modding an Agetec DC stick, advice needed.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:00 pm 


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Well everything's connected; everything that is with the exception of the joystick.

My problem is that I need the connector that attatches to the main board (the connector that accepts the joystick outputs). The one attatched to the old stick appears unuseable (I assume looking at it that these connectors also require a crimping tool to lock the wires in place). What is this piece called?
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 Post subject: Re: Modding an Agetec DC stick, advice needed.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:38 pm 


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Sorry for bumping an old thread but i just wanted to say MKL's work is the best ive ever seen and ive enjoyed this hobbie for a long time now , and to find out you do all your cutting by hand and the finished product looking like its just come off a factory line is just amazing

Great guide Thanks
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