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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 5:39 pm 



Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Posts: 137
I see you use a single output DC PSU, so presumably you have some kind of switching regulator for the required voltages. Do you find that has any effect on the games, particularly video quality?


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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 6:30 pm 


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It's a dual output PSU, with 5V/4A and 12V/1.5A. The switching regulator is actually a good idea, especially if you have a strong 5V PSU (6-10A) and only need the booster/regulator for 12V.
I will soon add more details and specs regarding the supergun set.
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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:43 pm 


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It looks solid!
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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:59 pm 



Joined: 30 Nov 2007
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Interesting, thanks! No negative voltage then... I made an inverting regulator for an in-car computer project years ago, worked pretty well but couldn't provide enough current for an amplifier.


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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:24 am 


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RGB wrote:
A sneak peek at the prototype supergun PCB I've been testing for some time now : )

Image

The final version of the PCB is slightly different and I hope to release a limited number of those (10 pcs) by the end of this year.


Wow, that so clean looking. What's the large IC for?


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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:41 pm 


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I'm guessing it supports programmable/rapid inputs. One please!


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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:26 pm 


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antron wrote:
I'm guessing it supports programmable/rapid inputs. One please!


That's exactly what it is, basically all RECO functions incorporated into a small supergun.
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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:09 pm 


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WONDER-FUL!
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Street Fighters. We need to aviod them when we activate time accellerator.


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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:18 pm 


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RGB wrote:
antron wrote:
I'm guessing it supports programmable/rapid inputs. One please!


That's exactly what it is, basically all RECO functions incorporated into a small supergun.


Very cool. :)

If you're still taking pre-orders put me down for one. :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:38 am 



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I've been meaning to buy/build a supergun for the last 6 or 7 years. I figured it's time to actually do it. But I'm not sure what the best starting point is these days. Does it make sense to build one, or should I just buy a prebuilt one, like the MAK Strike? I need something that'll work with Neo Geo, Atomiswave, and CPS-1 and 2, and my goal is to get something that outputs really high quality video via RGB (Japanese, so I don't break my XRGB). High quality audio is also a must.

What's the best course of action?


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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:29 am 


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If you have the time, the tools, and think you will enjoy the process then by all means build one yourself. That way you can tailor each component exactly how you want, and you can also build some flexibility into it.

If you don't mind splashing out all at once and would rather not have the hassle of learning all the details, you can buy one second-hand or have one built-to-order or even custom made.

In my case, I originally bought a cheap single-board solution initially (Vogatek), but then decided to build one myself later on. I did get really frustrated during the build because I couldn't get exactly what I wanted, and it's actually to this day not 100% finished, but it was fun trying to figure everything out.
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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 6:07 am 


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Chacranajxy wrote:
I've been meaning to buy/build a supergun for the last 6 or 7 years. I figured it's time to actually do it. But I'm not sure what the best starting point is these days. Does it make sense to build one, or should I just buy a prebuilt one, like the MAK Strike? I need something that'll work with Neo Geo, Atomiswave, and CPS-1 and 2, and my goal is to get something that outputs really high quality video via RGB (Japanese, so I don't break my XRGB). High quality audio is also a must.

What's the best course of action?


For the games you're interested in playing a custom build would be best. You'll get by with a prebuilt one but you'll eventually run into a game that will force you modify the supergun in some way. The Mak Strike does looks nice, even better compared to the 1st gen model I bought from them. I'll never use one again though, I hate scart.

shmuppyLove wrote:
If you have the time, the tools, and think you will enjoy the process then by all means build one yourself. That way you can tailor each component exactly how you want, and you can also build some flexibility into it.

If you don't mind splashing out all at once and would rather not have the hassle of learning all the details, you can buy one second-hand or have one built-to-order or even custom made.

In my case, I originally bought a cheap single-board solution initially (Vogatek), but then decided to build one myself later on. I did get really frustrated during the build because I couldn't get exactly what I wanted, and it's actually to this day not 100% finished, but it was fun trying to figure everything out.


I also began with a Vogatek supergun. :)
Don't be deterred if you get frustrated. I actually failed in my first attempt but a few months after that I tried again and got it right.


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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:45 am 


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Hi all. I have three boards coming from Japan (Tetris: The Grand Master 1, 2 and 3, with Type-X and JVC-Jamma I/O, as needed). I need a supergun to drive this stuff, and I've been scouring the web for parts. My concern right now is the A/V, and could really use advice. It mainly applies to TGM1 and TAP, since I expect TGM3 has VGA/line-level audio.

What I want is to send the A/V through a digitizer/scaler (XRGB-mini Framemeister) to my OLED TV via HDMI. I'm not open to bringing a mammoth decades-old CRT into my 600 sq. ft. shotgun house, as much as I can appreciate those who are into that.

One component of this is converting the 3-5Vpp RGBS from the JAMMA connector to the .7Vpp SCART equivalent. If there is an IC, board, cable, or something that is already out there and does this, then please ignore the following incoherent rambling and let me know of it! Otherwise, I found this enormously helpful description of a similar circuit. He seems to describe this scheme replicated across the 4 RGBS connections: 3-5VAC input -> 1-5k-ohm POT -> THS7314 amplifier -> 75-Ohm R -> 220 uF C -> Coaxial TV Input.

I see it hinging on the TI chip, the spec sheet for which doesn't quite seem to account for my application. I read the spec sheet as combining the RGBS inputs somehow into a single coaxial out, or S-Video. What I need is something more like the OPA693, replicated once for each input, basically an op-amp circuit with a gain of up to a little over 2.

Can someone help me fill in the rest of the blanks? There is also converting the 8-Ohm speaker mono audio output to whatever is going into the SCART connector.

-Brandon


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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:35 pm 


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It took a few days for the post above to get approval. I'm interested if there are responses, but I have the Mak Strike supergun on order, which should account for the video to SCART.

-Brandon


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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:05 pm 



Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Posts: 137
The THS7314 from TI is fine for RGB. Although it can be used with other signals, it's just a set of three match amplifiers with fixed 2x gain and will happily take RGB video as well. The only real down side is that the bandwidth is a bit limited... Depends how you like your games, and how modern they are.

The THS7316 is pin compatible so you could try them both on the same board. Both are pretty easy to use and cheap.


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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:54 pm 


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RGB - I would kill for one of those dinky Superguns if it had Sega Saturn controller ports (I'm getting a HSS-0130 Virtua Stick Pro through the post soon). Can I give you lots of money in exchange for one, please?


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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:09 pm 


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Das Muel wrote:
RGB - I would kill for one of those dinky Superguns if it had Sega Saturn controller ports (I'm getting a HSS-0130 Virtua Stick Pro through the post soon). Can I give you lots of money in exchange for one, please?

That's some unfortunate timing.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=52895

They are more or less sold out already
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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:02 pm 


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Shazbat. I'm already on porridge and water for a month after buying my Virtua Stick, so maybe this is for the best.


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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 8:27 pm 


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I was thinking about modding my Double Dragon PCB for line level output and bypassing the attenuation circuit I normally use. Looking at the schematics for the board it looks like I might be able to get away with just removing the volume pot and tapping audio from where the signal is connected to the pot. Any thoughts on this?


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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:36 pm 



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Without looking at the schematic I'd say it probably isn't worth it. You need to look at the impedance of the output. The attenuation circuit is so minimal there just isn't much point trying to get rid of it.


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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:48 am 


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After taking another look at the schematic it appears that line level audio is wired to JAMMA pin 11?! :shock:

Though I wonder if it still needs a 10uF cap before connecting to hi-fi?

Image


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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 6:10 pm 



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Posts: 137
Wow, no wonder it sounds terrible :-)

The outputs are AC coupled so should be okay without a cap, but there is going to be a bad impedance mis-match. You could try it I guess, should be safe.


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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:49 pm 



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Is MAK Strike good? How does it compares to the likes of Sigma AV7000?
Another random question: are there any adaptors to the CPS2 kick harness that let it to be connected to and work with MVS?
Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:29 pm 


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Location: uoıʇɐɹnƃıɟuoɔ ɯǝʇsʎs
Great service from Suzo! I placed my order for a PSU yesterday, and it's already here (with a "corrected" address, but that doesn't matter thankfully), though it only had to go one state over.

At $42ish it was unfortunately expensive, and the MWP-606 wasn't available. Rather belatedly, I've realized that I might not need all the extra capacity, as I'm not running an arcade monitor off it - I don't know how balanced the loads will be against the design. Thank goodness for the built-in voltmeter, then :)

The internals of RGB's rebranded MWP-606 certainly look more impressive than the Power Pro 130W. Incidentally, I note the MWP-602 (older PSU?) seems to have a green FR-4 main PCB.

I'm not tearing it down immediately, but peering through the very solid metal case, I can see many components:

There's a couple big filtering (?) caps near the back of the unit, both Fuhjyyu LP series 330uF/200V; two medium-sized TM series 2200uF/10V near the power connectors, and little TN series caps everywhere, e.g. 2.2uF/50V and 47uF/50V.

2 x-capacitors from JEFU, "GMF MPX/JEFU" .22K / 310V.

Semiconductors: Fairchild KA7500C on the main board, sbl3045pt and Lite-On STPR1620CTW rectifiers connected to the metal side wall. There might be a couple more rectifiers at the back of the unit, but they're in thermal jackets and secured to the frame similar to the components in RGB's image.

3 transformers, one a pretty good size, one coil about the same size as that in RGB's unit, a red bean (Mylar PET capacitor?), and many other components too small to read (resistors, maybe some can shaped diodes, ceramic caps, etc.). Finally, there's a thin clear plastic sheet running under the PCB and the case.

In short: Many Taiwanese parts and assembled in Taiwan, wouldn't like to shotgun replace the caps because of the possibility performance would be hurt by other parts. Many things I would have liked to see change but which would have added a bit to the price. The price is high for what you get in comparison to some other PSUs, especially for people used to competitive PC PSUs with much higher safety requirements and power output, as well as modern features, but this is probably not a high volume item. On the plus side, the steel enclosure is really solid and hefty, and should conduct heat away well.


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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 12:00 am 


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More HASv2 talk:

I've got my power cable issue sorted out (Lowe's had the perfect things for the task - pre-stripped cable even, though a bit expensive; I just need to crimp the ring terminals on), but now I've got an embarrassing question.

Does anybody know a source for prebuilt NESRGB SCART cables? I've got mine from EvilTim's US distributor and it looks nice, but I have no way to do anything with the parts right now. :oops: I'd also take an alternative RGB cable suggestion if there are any fitting ones.

Edit: For clarification, I'm just interested in any options. I'm (probably) not going to return the NESRGB kit, even though I think it's irritating, and I'll probably find somebody semi-local to solder it together instead. Looks like Game-Tech.us is out, anybody know a MI/OH option?


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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 4:11 pm 



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Got my power supply as well. Any good suggestions on where to get power cable? I saw that one dude in the HAS sale thread just take an old pc power plug used that by stripping and crimping the end.

And also about the rgb cable, is there a specific one we need for the HAS?


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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 4:37 am 


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Apologies in advance for what I assume to be a silly question but what is classified as a processed / unproccessed CPS 2 kick harness for a supergun? The processed kick harness is marked as "with harness" whereas the unprocessed one is marked as "without harness".

Thanks

EDIT: Never mind, I got it...


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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:45 am 


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I'm still in the process of reviewing my HAS setup, but I like what I'm seeing so far.

I'm also going to be retesting some of the same boards on the now-obsolete Firebug single-board supergun design for comparison. That design has the PSU and other supergun components on a single PCB (anybody who bought one of these back in the day got sorely ripped off, since it looks like an off-the-shelf board put into a project box, so basically I paid a bunch for some cheap parts and some soldering work, and also a fake solder blob JAMMA key which has only caused me grief by limiting the use of certain boards - a limitation the HAS doesn't have; you just have to make sure that you match pins 1 and 28 correctly, and not put it in backwards).

One thing I am seeing consistently is that images are shifted a bit left compared to other RGB sources I run on my PVM. What's there is great and looks sharp, especially the horizontal games. Probably none of these boards have ever looked or sounded better, even though they're all getting quite old.

Setup questions still abound, if somebody's still wondering about power cables here's what I did with the Suzo-Happ PSU:

Find a pre-stripped "project power cord" or similar at your local big box home improvement retailer. You will probably have to take out a razor blade to trim an extra couple centimeters off the outer jacket (careful not to cut the insulation on the inside wires - start with some cuts running down the length of the wire jacket, and then trim this back) so that the wires can spread out enough to reach the terminals of your newly-bought arcade PSU. RGB very kindly sent me some free ring terminals, but I realized that the Suzo-Happ PSU's design is intended for bare wire and in fact will give much better surface contact that way (reduced chance of scorching). After stripping a bit off the rest of my cable, I simply undid the screws from each terminal, and used a pair of pliers to firmly wrap the tinned end of each cable around them. When I put the screws back in, there was just enough bare wire to wrap around each screw terminal without any braids being separated or needing a trim, and the wire insulation reaches almost to the terminal, but doesn't touch. It couldn't have worked out better.

There's no power button on the HAS or the Suzo-Happ PSU so I'm thinking about getting some switch so I can turn that on and off without turning on and off the power strip I'm using for the monitor and supergun, or pulling the PSU cord out entirely when I want to shut off the PSU, HAS, and PCB. Currently I have the supergun connected closest to the switch and the power strip's wall lead, and the monitor is connected just after that.


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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:14 pm 


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I've spent a bit of time retesting some PCBs on the Fire-Bug supergun, which was shipped in 2010 or slightly earlier. It shouldn't be any ancient thing, but I'm starting to wonder.

The setup is like this: A standard PC power cable (which I'm sure is fine) feeds directly into a black project box. On this box are a couple large arcade buttons, serving as service and test buttons. Power supply is controlled by a large, light-up rocker button. Two DB ports with a (supposedly) Neo Geo pinout provide controller support. Output is via a large DIN-type jack, like the ones microphones use, bigger than the NESRGB plug used on the HAS. Fire-Bug supplied a cable from this to JP-21 SCART, since I originally used this with an XRGB2. I had Daskrabs make a JP-21 to BNC adapter cable. I've been using this setup with a PVM 20L2.

First, the supergun agnostic issue: It looks like all RGBs images are prominently shifted left on my PVM, which I initially noticed only on the HAS. You can tell how much PCB gaming I've been doing lately. I'll check my component sources and the SNES as well. Some PCBs;

Contra with Unusual EEPROM stickers: Shifted left, my hackaday PlayStation stick gets jump on button X, fire on button A. HAS didn't seem to allow jumping but I'll retest. Interesting that the Fire-Bug set, with a no-brand PS to Neo Geo converter, apparently differs in pinout.
Side Arms: Slight blur, mostly along-the-scanline type.
Strikers 1945: Blur appears really heavy.
Mystic Riders: Not much blur, but no setting lets colors "pop" on this board played on the Fire-Bug supergun. Didn't remember to check the score counter area for centering, but there's no point.
Top Gunner: Heavy borders on left and right side, but seems centered.

Pixels bleed through a bit in both dimensions - both into neighboring area, and also into the space between scanlines. It's as if somebody has defocused the PVM. With the pots turned to their hard stops at the full settings, the blur amount is quite high, and colors are too bright as well. Turned back, colors appear more normal and the blur amount decreases, but something still looks wrong in color reproduction, and there is still some blur. It doesn't help that the pots move very easily. Fire-Bug said that using three separate pots was a deliberate decision in case some games needed tweaking, but in practice it has turned out to be a great pain.

I also should note that the supergun design, set in a project box, has a small fan wired into the side. This is the only ventilation hole in the thing. Where is the air supposed to go?

Voltages must be checked from the JAMMA edge only (and I haven't bothered) - the box is literally a black box as to its internals, unless you open it and look at the all-in-one design, with power supply and supergun components all on the same board. The close proximity may be contributing to any number of problems, from power issues to safety.

I also recall that sound quality was shitty, but I wasn't able to test that, this time, because I didn't find a dual female RCA to female stereo mini adapter in time.

At this point, I wouldn't feel good about selling this supergun on. The Daskrabs cable has nothing to do with the blur, and I doubt the standard PC cable contributes to it either. The saddest thing is that it cost a lot more than the HAS and all the parts, so even if you were a "lucky" person who Fire-Bug didn't flat-out steal from, it's not clear that this is even safe to use with PCBs. Even the Playstation stick I use, which was put together by a well-meaning individual, is something of a pile of crap as well, and I probably overpaid for that as well. It does come with some decent enough parts, though.

Sad times. I'll do what RGB suggested and take a picture of the PCB sometime soon. After that, happy times will be here again as I get back to the HAS.


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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 8:40 pm 



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Hello fellow retroheads,

I was hoping somebody could assist me in making a few decisions that are hardware related.
I am looking to purchase a SCART cable and an external converter/deinterlacing device to go along with my Sega Genesis model 1.

I stumbled upon this website for cables: https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/gam ... ga-drive-1
But I've also heard this kickstarter got funded, touting 'HD' cables for retro consoles: http://www.hdretrovision.com/genesis/

Which cable should I be aiming to get? Does the expensive gold plated SCART cable really make a difference?

Then as for the scaling hardware, I was originally going to opt to getting an old PVM off craigslist but my mind has somewhat changed after reading reviews of such things as the Framemeister XRGB-Mini and other similar devices. I'd almost be tempted to just get a SCART cable and the XRGB and call it a day. But I come to you fellow retroheads looking for advice.

Can somebody share some wise words of wisdom?

Thanks!


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