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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:49 am 


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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:46 pm 



Joined: 23 Jul 2016
Posts: 16
Hello guys, Im pretty new to the supergun business, but have been using it for MVS carts for a while, which works fine. However, just got my first board (WWF Superstars), and the supergun cuts the power when i try to boot it up. So ive been thinking, maybe its not the right voltage? After all, there is an option to change from 5V (which the MV1FZ use) to 12 volt, so ive been thinking, maybe that is what i have to do? But i dont want to do it if i can damage something.

Anyways, i use a retroelectonik supergun, works great as i said with the MV1FZ. Shuts down instantly when i try the WWF Superstars board. So do avoid damage to anything, i ask here. Any tips? Thanks in advance!


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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 3:48 pm 



Joined: 31 Jul 2018
Posts: 3
Location: Northern VA
Are you using the "ProGamer" version of the retroelectronik supergun? If so what voltage is it displaying?


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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:36 pm 



Joined: 29 May 2018
Posts: 1
Since this may be helpful to anyone who's considering it: I can put in my recommendation NOT to buy the Retroelectronik supergun. I bought one back in May, and given the warnings of a number of people here and elsewhere, I made sure to look it over to ensure it was good. Nothing was touching any traces, nothing seemed cold-soldered, etc... It was all fine, I assumed.

Then my MV1B died. Which I chalked up to being a used piece of hardware, and moved on to a MB1A. Which immediately started acting up.

After troubleshooting everything I could, I finally found, while cleaning the JAMMA ends of things, that one of the grounds in the connector on the supergun was snapped off. Now, it could've been me (unlikely), or it could've just been made with a really shitty connector. But it was broken. Also, it was last week, so I couldn't exactly get a refund on the thing.

In addition: I had bought the 15 pin to 9 pin Sega adapters and one immediately fried on me. When I went for a refund, I received it after Ebay defaulted to a refund because the seller did not respond. He was similarly radio-silent when I had sent other messages post-purchase.

This thing might look like a great deal to someone new to the scene (as it did to me, and as I am/was), but it's a complete waste of time and money. Do not buy the Retroelectronik supergun, and I would highly suggest anyone who has recently purchased one return theirs. Given my experience, I wouldn't be surprised if the dude just doesn't respond at all and you get a refund and a (piece of shit, dangerous) supergun to chuck in the garbage.

I lost a perfectly good piece of hardware (possibly two; waiting on a MAK Strike now to see if the MV1A is permanently screwed) on this thing. I'd really like if others could be saved from taking a similar risk.

DO NOT BUY THE RETROELECTRONIK SUPERGUN.


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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:48 pm 


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The switch for 5v<->12v is simply to change what is measured and displays on the LCD. It does not actually switch voltage anywhere. You have (or should have) +5V, +12V and -5V available from your power supply and via the jamma connector. Check the appropriate jamma pins with a multimeter to confirm.

There is a switch, however, that will enable the retroelektronic to generate -5v, if you are using a power supply that does not provide it and is connected to the ATX (PC power supply) connector. Neo Geo does not require -5v, but WWF might. I would start with confirming you have -5v at the edge connector, and if not, rectifying that situation.

All that said, I recently had a Strikers 1945 board doing the exact same thing that you describe, and I've got an arcade power supply supplying my retroelektronic, with +5v, +12v and -5v present. So, possibly the issues are related, possibly not. But I am watching for any more responses, in case other users are having the same problem.


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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:34 pm 


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Yes, Superstars needs -5v, but it would probably run minus sound without it.
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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:58 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 128
Is anyone here using a supergun with one of those multi-game jamma PCB boards?

I'm curious if there is any real advantage over using emulators (output at native resolutions)?

For some reason, MAME seems to get less and less user friendly with every new release. I find myself increasingly frustrated by messages telling me I can't play games that used to work because I am missing files.... even when the rom is apparently for the version of MAME I am using.

So..... while they have always appeared to be somewhat of an oddity to me in this day and age, I find myself curious about replacing mame with a supergun and a good multi-game jamma pcb.

Is there any effective difference between emulators and these multigame boards? Or are they really just a Jamma compatible emulator?

Is anyone still selling supergun consoles that output 240p RGB? I could only see bare bones simple supergun PCBs from Europe or nice consolized superguns but that only output upscaled HDMI or component...


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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:43 pm 



Joined: 13 Aug 2018
Posts: 96
Can anyone recommend a currently available supergun for a Neo Geo MVS? All I need is RGB out, separate audio out, and 2 controller ports.


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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:23 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 128
shmupsrocks wrote:
Can anyone recommend a currently available supergun for a Neo Geo MVS? All I need is RGB out, separate audio out, and 2 controller ports.


That's pretty much any of currently available simple supergun boards (I.e. Not one of the consolized hdmi versions).

I am going to buy this one soon:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Supergun-Arcad ... SwR7BbhXW8

It looks as good as any so no point in paying $500 for someone else to stick one in a box. I want to use one to try one of those Raspberry Pi with the Jamma adapter to build a mini bartop (to use an 8" rgb crt monitor I have lying around).


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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:22 am 



Joined: 13 Aug 2018
Posts: 96
So if two superguns have the same features they're the same? I assumed there could be better and worse implementations of RGB out, audio out, and controller ports, but that's not the case?


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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:10 am 



Joined: 13 Aug 2018
Posts: 96
Classicgamer, that supergun is made by CBOX. I have the CMVS by CBOX and it fried my OSSC and this guy's OSSC:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey-K3qHcJ2w


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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:17 am 


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Location: Northern California :/
Classicgamer wrote:
Is anyone here using a supergun with one of those multi-game jamma PCB boards?
snip


The multigame boards are literally crappy pc's running an outdated build of mame with a custom interface. The advantage to using a pc is that you can use a newer version of mame with a more powerful computer. also you naturally get more games. If you're going to buy a multigame + supergun, you may as well just buy a cheap pc + amd gpu and use soft 15khz (or something similar).

Classicgamer wrote:
shmupsrocks wrote:
Can anyone recommend a currently available supergun for a Neo Geo MVS? All I need is RGB out, separate audio out, and 2 controller ports.


That's pretty much any of currently available simple supergun boards (I.e. Not one of the consolized hdmi versions).

I am going to buy this one soon:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Supergun-Arcad ... SwR7BbhXW8

It looks as good as any so no point in paying $500 for someone else to stick one in a box. I want to use one to try one of those Raspberry Pi with the Jamma adapter to build a mini bartop (to use an 8" rgb crt monitor I have lying around).


shmupsrocks wrote:
So if two superguns have the same features they're the same? I assumed there could be better and worse implementations of RGB out, audio out, and controller ports, but that's not the case?


Basically at this point the consensus at multiple forums is :

1. The HAS supergun from member rgb on this site. It features the best build quality, and has all the necessary features
The problem is they're out of stock

2-99 Every supergun that isn't a HAS basically.

Because the HAS is oos, I went with the retroeltronik progamer. Apparently this unit might feed rgb without a buffer. You can see ChuChu Flamingo's posts on the last page about that. For what its worth I haven't had an issue connecting it to my pvm. A friend of mine who does board repairs uses the retroelektronik to test video output on all his repairs. That's just 2 anecdotes, but it's something.

ChuChu Flamingo wrote:
Stay away from retroelectronik. They drive the rgb video without a buffer afaik. Wait for the HAS.


How would we determine with certainty that the retroelektronik's don't have a video buffer?


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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:52 am 


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Retroelectronik's supergun has just four resistors in series for RGBS lines (plus three pots for adjustable RGB out).

I modded one of a friend of mine some time ago, adding a THS7374 and proper attenuation values.Image


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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:03 pm 



Joined: 13 Aug 2018
Posts: 96
The currently available ones I can find info on are the Retroelectronik, Windy Gaming, and MAK Strike. Both the HAS and Sentinel are very promising and hopefully available soon but not right now.

The Windy Gaming looks nice but perhaps somewhat bulky and the internal PSU has a fan which I don't like. Also no audio output separate from the RGB port.

The Retroelectronik is said in the comments here to not properly attenuate the RGB sync line:

https://www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/comm ... _supergun/

Also I think it requires an ATX PSU and I believe most or all of those have fans.

The MAK Strike looks to be the best choice for me overall. The main issue with it seems to be a voltage spike which has been known to kill attached decoder boards but I've read several reports of it working fine with the OSSC. It optionally comes with a power supply and I hope that doesn't incorporate a fan.


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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:09 am 


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Joined: 19 Mar 2009
Posts: 10
Location: Northern California :/
shmupsrocks wrote:
The currently available ones I can find info on are the Retroelectronik, Windy Gaming, and MAK Strike. Both the HAS and Sentinel are very promising and hopefully available soon but not right now.

The Windy Gaming looks nice but perhaps somewhat bulky and the internal PSU has a fan which I don't like. Also no audio output separate from the RGB port.

The Retroelectronik is said in the comments here to not properly attenuate the RGB sync line:

https://www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/comm ... _supergun/

Also I think it requires an ATX PSU and I believe most or all of those have fans.

The MAK Strike looks to be the best choice for me overall. The main issue with it seems to be a voltage spike which has been known to kill attached decoder boards but I've read several reports of it working fine with the OSSC. It optionally comes with a power supply and I hope that doesn't incorporate a fan.


FYI you can easily buy an atx psu with no fan, or an adaptive fan. I have a small sfx form factor psu with an adaptive fan. My Cps1, cps 1.5, cps2, and neo geo mv1 do not draw enough power for the fan to turn on. It’s been perfectly silent gaming for me.

Also replacing an atx psu fan with a silent noctua (or whatever) is trivial.

- sucks about the mak strike voltage spike.


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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:13 pm 



Joined: 13 Aug 2018
Posts: 96
Yeah it's too bad about the voltage spike. Can I prevent it from affecting the OSSC by turning on the supergun before I turn on the OSSC? From what I've read the spike is only right at the moment of switching on the power.


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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:59 pm 


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Posts: 472
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shmupsrocks wrote:
Yeah it's too bad about the voltage spike. Can I prevent it from affecting the OSSC by turning on the supergun before I turn on the OSSC? From what I've read the spike is only right at the moment of switching on the power.


You should be good as long as you don't use that power switch on the supergun. Leave it in "ON" position and power on the supergun by plugging the PSU's plug to power outlet (or use a power bar). Mechanical switches produce a very high and narrow current peak and there's no circuitry at all on the supergun to suppress it (not so trivial to design such solution to work properly with all kinds of PCB games and PSUs).

Also, check if there's a resistor on the CSync line.
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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 6:54 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 128
mr. newbie wrote:
Classicgamer wrote:
Is anyone here using a supergun with one of those multi-game jamma PCB boards?
snip


The multigame boards are literally crappy pc's running an outdated build of mame with a custom interface. The advantage to using a pc is that you can use a newer version of mame with a more powerful computer. also you naturally get more games. If you're going to buy a multigame + supergun, you may as well just buy a cheap pc + amd gpu and use soft 15khz (or something similar).

Classicgamer wrote:
shmupsrocks wrote:
Can anyone recommend a currently available supergun for a Neo Geo MVS? All I need is RGB out, separate audio out, and 2 controller ports.


That's pretty much any of currently available simple supergun boards (I.e. Not one of the consolized hdmi versions).

I am going to buy this one soon:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Supergun-Arcad ... SwR7BbhXW8

It looks as good as any so no point in paying $500 for someone else to stick one in a box. I want to use one to try one of those Raspberry Pi with the Jamma adapter to build a mini bartop (to use an 8" rgb crt monitor I have lying around).


shmupsrocks wrote:
So if two superguns have the same features they're the same? I assumed there could be better and worse implementations of RGB out, audio out, and controller ports, but that's not the case?


Basically at this point the consensus at multiple forums is :

1. The HAS supergun from member rgb on this site. It features the best build quality, and has all the necessary features
The problem is they're out of stock

2-99 Every supergun that isn't a HAS basically.

Because the HAS is oos, I went with the retroeltronik progamer. Apparently this unit might feed rgb without a buffer. You can see ChuChu Flamingo's posts on the last page about that. For what its worth I haven't had an issue connecting it to my pvm. A friend of mine who does board repairs uses the retroelektronik to test video output on all his repairs. That's just 2 anecdotes, but it's something.

ChuChu Flamingo wrote:
Stay away from retroelectronik. They drive the rgb video without a buffer afaik. Wait for the HAS.


How would we determine with certainty that the retroelektronik's don't have a video buffer?




Thanks. That what I thought on those multigame Jamma boards. If they don't output exactly the right res and refresh for every game, then they are pointless in every way I can think of.

One thing I never fully understood is why it's so hard for emulators to output the same res and refresh rate as the board they emulate. An emulator essentially uses software to emulate the original hardware but, apparently not the graphics chip.

Still, you would have thought that, if the multigame board was capable of cga output, then it would have been possible to set each game to output correctly, if the manufacturers weren't so lazy.

I guess I'll stick with the PC.


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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:18 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 128
shmupsrocks wrote:
So if two superguns have the same features they're the same? I assumed there could be better and worse implementations of RGB out, audio out, and controller ports, but that's not the case?



It is worth understanding that a supergun is not a console like a SNES or Neo Geo. It's more like an adapter. With Jamma arcade boards, each one is like it's own console with a built-in game (except Neo GEO motherboards etc).

The Jamma edge was / is just a universally compatible interface to connect arcade boards to the monitor, controls and coin mechanism etc. A Super gun simply provides a more convenient way to output to a TV, joypad port and a credit button without having to wire them yourself (like you would in a cab). There is no graphics or sound boards in an arcade game with no game in it.

You are not going to get better graphics or sound by buying a more expensive supergun. That stuff is all generated from the Jamma PCB game board. What differs is build qualty and how much user know-how is required.

On a forum like this, you get people with varying degrees of competence to wire one of these things up. It doesn't surprise me at all that some people have fried their hardware. As with any electrical product, people, with a limited understanding of electronics should probably spend the extra on a more complete, user friendlly and ready to run supergun.

That's my $0.02.


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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:05 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 739
Classicgamer wrote:
One thing I never fully understood is why it's so hard for emulators to output the same res and refresh rate as the board they emulate. An emulator essentially uses software to emulate the original hardware but, apparently not the graphics chip.

Generally, emulators emulate, not simulate. With a system like this, the point of the emulator is to act enough like the original hardware so that the game will run on the host hardware, which is probably off-the-shelf PC hardware, which is ostensibly different and otherwise incompatible with the game; it does not try to be the original hardware; and it doesn't try to make the host model the original hardware, which isn't always feasible.

Probably the easiest-to-understand example of what I'm talking about is StepMania. It doesn't try to interpret the code of original DDR games like an emulator would; instead, it's its own thing that models and plays just like the original games. To the untrained eye, it's indistinguishable from normal DDR, especially when fitted with a theme modeled after a specific arcade version.

An example somewhat more relevant to these forums would be an EverDrive, which is not an original game cartridge, but instead functionally models one, and the console can't tell the difference. Same with the GDEMU, which simulates a GD-ROM, even though it has "Emu[lator]" in the name, and is considered an Optical Drive "Emulator".

To get the type of AV output you want, I think you'd probably need a host platform with an FPGA that can simulate the original hardware, particularly the GPU. I imagine something like that would be the closest you'd get to the original RGB output, short of using the original hardware.


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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:15 pm 



Joined: 15 Aug 2009
Posts: 600
Location: Europe
So I finally assembled a video cable for my HAS Supergun. Hooked up my CPS3 board and... It's got a very dark image. Can barely see the image.

I'm assuming that I need to add 220uF/330uF caps on the RGB lines or something? Any help appreciated.

Edit: Was a blanking issue (I think). Now solved.


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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:32 pm 



Joined: 10 May 2014
Posts: 20
Any advice for a quality power supply for the HAS?


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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:14 am 



Joined: 15 Aug 2009
Posts: 600
Location: Europe
RetroBVM wrote:
Any advice for a quality power supply for the HAS?


I'm using a Suzo Happ 80-0064-00 and it's all fine and dandy.


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 Post subject: Re: The Supergun discussion and Q&A thread.
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:12 pm 



Joined: 13 Aug 2018
Posts: 96
Anybody using a power supply without exposed wiring that doesn't smell like hot electronics (lead) while it's on?


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