Sorry for the lame question, but I've searched and can't figure this out.
I have a PC-88:
If you look at the middle-bottom, you'll see the Analog RGB input (to the right of the RCA jacks.) It's 15-pin, but two rows instead of the 3 row VGA ports that are common (in the US, at least.)
I want to know if there is any chance of me hooking up a VGA monitor (from the late 1990s, maybe 2000-2001) into that PC88. Does an adapter exist between the two styles? What is the 2-row input even called? When I look up "Analog RGB" I get so many different answers (including VGA, the RCA-like colored cables, SCART, etc. etc.) I can't make any sense of it. It seems to be on almost every old J-PC, so I would think it would be common.
That's a 15-pin analog RGB connector, they're also on the PC-9801 models. I think it outputs 15khz (don't trust me on that) since most computers from that period use 15khz monitors. You might be able to build a cable to a Commodore 1084s monitor or one of those professional RGB monitors (Sony PVM, NEC Multisync, etc). Just make sure to have the correct pinouts.
rolins wrote:Cool! You finally imported a PC-88. What model?
That's a 15-pin analog RGB connector, they're also on the PC-9801 models. I think it outputs 15khz (don't trust me on that) since most computers from that period use 15khz monitors. You might be able to build a cable to a Commodore 1084s monitor or one of those professional RGB monitors (Sony PVM, NEC Multisync, etc). Just make sure to have the correct pinouts.
FE, because it had the TV/audio out, but as I soon discovered, PC88+RGB=messy mess of color on TV. It REALLY benefits from the clarity of RGB. It's teh awesome even still.
I have a big huge giant NEC presentation monitor, and it does have RGB in, but it's only the VGA-style (3-rows) or the RCA-style (a bunch of RCA-shaped cables.) No 2-row.
I just realized my NEC XM29 supposedly DOES support 15khz, so maybe that adapter I linked in the first post would work there?
On the other hand, since the 88 has composite out, would a comp-to-VGA box be worth it? Then I could easily hook it up to my Apple monitor (which I would prefer.)
kozo wrote:I just realized my NEC XM29 supposedly DOES support 15khz, so maybe that adapter I linked in the first post would work there?
The NEC XM29 does 15khz through its BNC connectors and I think also through its VGA port too. If the pinouts on that adapter match up with the 15-pin RGB on your PC-88, then maybe. I really don't know for sure. Me, I rather build the cable myself or find someone who can. GameSX has the pinouts for the japanese 15-pin RGB, but it only shows for the X68000, FM-Towns, and PC-9801. Doesn't mention the pinouts on a PC-9801 is the same as the PC-8801. You might want to ask Lawrence at Gamesx forum or ask someone at Tokugawa for the 15pin RGB pinouts on a PC-8801.
On the other hand, since the 88 has composite out, would a comp-to-VGA box be worth it? Then I could easily hook it up to my Apple monitor (which I would prefer.)
Even if you did Composite video to VGA output on you NEC XM29, the quality won't be RGB.
On the other hand, since the 88 has composite out, would a comp-to-VGA box be worth it? Then I could easily hook it up to my Apple monitor (which I would prefer.)
Even if you did Composite video to VGA output on you NEC XM29, the quality won't be RGB.
This is true, but even if it's slightly better, it's worth it to me - I want to try and condense into one monitor/screen if possible, and I like the Apple the most (and more importantly, it fits in the room ), so even if it isn't perfect, it should end up better than the TV I have it on now (a little 14" CRT).
I'm very curious... when you're playing a game is the loading time on par with M88 emulator?
When I played Psy-O-Blade and Last Armageddon through M88, there was hardly any loading during gameplay. I don't know if that's just M88 disabling the floppy loading time or not.
On the other hand, since the 88 has composite out, would a comp-to-VGA box be worth it? Then I could easily hook it up to my Apple monitor (which I would prefer.)
Even if you did Composite video to VGA output on you NEC XM29, the quality won't be RGB.
This is true, but even if it's slightly better, it's worth it to me - I want to try and condense into one monitor/screen if possible, and I like the Apple the most (and more importantly, it fits in the room ), so even if it isn't perfect, it should end up better than the TV I have it on now (a little 14" CRT).
I know what you mean. I have little space for large TVs so I bought a XRGB-2 to consolidate all my system to a 17'' VGA monitor. Worked out great.
Well, composite to vga would still require a converter which will degrade the quality no matter what. If your going that route, you're better off using the composite out on your TV.
Last edited by rolins on Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
rolins wrote:I'm very curious... when you're playing a game is the loading time on par with M88 emulator?
When I played Psy-O-Blade and Last Armageddon through M88, there was hardly any loading during gameplay. I don't know if that's just M88 disabling the floppy loading time or not.
I was actually surprised at how quietly, quickly and infrequently everything has loaded. Sorcerian seems to have absolutely zero loading time between screens. Star Trader and most the other Falcom stuff tends to have unnoticeable load times, sometimes due to clever screen use. Dinosaur and Ys I and II have bits of loading here and there, but they are quick and tolerable (better than most PS2 games ). On the whole, I was shocked that the disks even worked, let alone how fast they did. The disks are also much quieter than I expected.
rolins wrote:I know what you mean. I have little space for large TVs so I bought a XRGB-2 to consolidate all my system to a 17'' VGA monitor. Worked out great.
Well, composite to vga would still require a converter which will degrade the quality no matter what. If your going that route, you're better off using the composite out on your TV.
Yes, my Apple Studio Display is big but not stupidly large, and I love the blue accents. I use it with my Dreamcast and it's drop dead gorgeous.
By "using the composite out on your TV" do you mean buying the converter, going PC88 -> TV -> converter -> Apple monitor? Because I'd rather just do PC88 -> converter -> monitor.
ANYTHING on the Apple CRT will be better than the small TV. It is NOT a good television. That's why I'd consider the converter.
rolins wrote:I'm very curious... when you're playing a game is the loading time on par with M88 emulator?
When I played Psy-O-Blade and Last Armageddon through M88, there was hardly any loading during gameplay. I don't know if that's just M88 disabling the floppy loading time or not.
I was actually surprised at how quietly, quickly and infrequently everything has loaded. Sorcerian seems to have absolutely zero loading time between screens. Star Trader and most the other Falcom stuff tends to have unnoticeable load times, sometimes due to clever screen use. Dinosaur and Ys I and II have bits of loading here and there, but they are quick and tolerable (better than most PS2 games ). On the whole, I was shocked that the disks even worked, let alone how fast they did. The disks are also much quieter than I expected.
Thanks for the info. I own original copies of Psy-O-Blade and Last Armageddon for the MSX2 and they both require some serious patience. But you know most PC-88 ports on the MSX2 are usually slow anyway.
kozo wrote:
By "using the composite out on your TV" do you mean buying the converter, going PC88 -> TV -> converter -> Apple monitor? Because I'd rather just do PC88 -> converter -> monitor.
I mean you should hookup your PC-88 directly to the composite out on your TV using RCA cables.
ANYTHING on the Apple CRT will be better than the small TV. It is NOT a good television. That's why I'd consider the converter.
With your monitor i think you can just buy a upscan converter to do composite to VGA. I have my NES connected to my XRGB-2 using composite video and quality is quite good. Certainly not better than a TV though but I barely notice the difference.
Fascinating info in here, people...I hope I don't get hooked on the Sorcerian type game because I already have enough retro Japanese computing stuff lying about. I've started to wonder if I'm not strongly hobbling my collection by neglecting all the (market topping) NEC stuff, but there was just so much of it that it's hard to get a fix on it all (part of the reason they lost the market to DOS-V machines and Windows, but that's another story for another time...)
rolins wrote:I mean you should hookup your PC-88 directly to the composite out on your TV using RCA cables.
You mean composite IN on the TV? Because that's what I am doing now, and it looks hideous. That's why I started the topic.
Yeah, composite IN. I get them confused all the time.
If you think it looks bad on your TV, chances are it'll look even worse when you upscan the picture to your VGA monitor.
I don't know what else to tell ya. Either...
1.) import a PC-8801 monitor
2.) build video cables for your NEC XM29 so you can get RGB
3.) stick to composite video on a TV
3.) get upscan converter to display it on VGA monitor
EDIT:
Hey, how much was the shipping? Did you get this through YHJ? I'm so jealous that you own one.
rolins wrote:Hey, how much was the shipping? Did you get this through YHJ? I'm so jealous that you own one.
You don't want to know how much. It came with about 10 Falcom games and CDs. :O
It was $200. For shipping. Just shipping. I was not ready for that. :O Thankfully the CDs are rare and ones I don't care for that much, so selly selly and make back that shipping cost. ;D
BTW, are upscalers really that bad with composite? I mean, I'm getting blur and oversaturation and bendy lines and tilt and crap falling off the screen. The TV I am using is really not very good.
kozo wrote:BTW, are upscalers really that bad with composite? I mean, I'm getting blur and oversaturation and bendy lines and tilt and crap falling off the screen. The TV I am using is really not very good.
Not always, there are some good upscan converters and bad ones. The XRGB-2 is pretty good at upscanning a composite signal. I've tried it with the NES and MSX and the results are about the same with my TV (with some tweaking involved).
I had no idea your TV was that crappy. The quality of composite video ain't the greatest but you shouldn't be getting "bendy lines and tilt and crap..." Does the picture problem also happen when you have other video equipment connected to composite IN of your TV like a VCR, NES, DVD player? You should try your PC-8801 on a "good" TV just to be sure.
kozo wrote:
rolins wrote:Hey, how much was the shipping? Did you get this through YHJ? I'm so jealous that you own one.
You don't want to know how much. It came with about 10 Falcom games and CDs. :O
It was $200. For shipping. Just shipping. I was not ready for that. :O Thankfully the CDs are rare and ones I don't care for that much, so selly selly and make back that shipping cost. ;D
Christ!
Well good luck with the sales. Is DIOS one of those CDs you got? I remember Macaw posted a advert about the game on Tokugawa.
rolins wrote:I had no idea your TV was that crappy. The quality of composite video ain't the greatest but you shouldn't be getting "bendy lines and tilt and crap..." Does the picture problem also happen when you have other video equipment connected to composite IN of your TV like a VCR, NES, DVD player? You should try your PC-8801 on a "good" TV just to be sure.
I have tried it on other TVs, it is just the TV. It was a cheap, $100-$150 set that I grabbed a while back. It's been moved between two states at least three times and hit around pretty bad. So yeah.
rolins wrote:Christ!
That's what I said (or rather "what she said?")
rolins wrote:Well good luck with the sales. Is DIOS one of those CDs you got? I remember Macaw posted a advert about the game on Tokugawa.
No, they are just Falcom music CDs. Good ones, but ones I either already got or just don't care for that much. I'll post everything on the marketplace board eventually.
Thanks for all your help, too. I appreciate the feedback!
kozo wrote:I just realized my NEC XM29 supposedly DOES support 15khz, so maybe that adapter I linked in the first post would work there?
rolins wrote:2.) build video cables for your NEC XM29 so you can get RGB
Listen to teh rolins. NEC makes good stuff in my experience, so if that thing takes 15khz, that is your que to rock out w/ your sock out... or something the exhibits celebratory behavior.
If you can find the pinouts for your PC88 and your NEC monitor, I could probably find the time to whip up a snazy RGB cable for ya
-ud
I know this is an ancient thread, but I'm buying a PC88 and I want to know if I can use the VGA adapter I have for my PC98 or if I have to buy a new adapter. This is to connect the PC88 to the OSSC ofc.
Elrinth wrote:I know this is an ancient thread, but I'm buying a PC88 and I want to know if I can use the VGA adapter I have for my PC98 or if I have to buy a new adapter. This is to connect the PC88 to the OSSC ofc.
If it's a model with the DA-15 analog RGB port, it's the same. The digital RGB uses an 8-pin DIN connector and obviously would need to be converted to analog to be used with the OSSC.
