Best TV for a supergun

zlk · Post by **zlk** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 5:43 pm

I recently purchased mushihime sama to play on my supergun setup. The vertical display for ketsui, espgaluda and DOJ are perfect on my tv. Unfortuately mushihime sama is just too strecthced out and I can't see the whole screen at once. It displays fine in widescreen 16:9 mode, but cuts off parts of the screen in 4:3 mode. My Samsung tv service mode has the ability to shrink the display up and down but not side to side. Does anyone have any suggestions or know of any good tvs that allow both vertical and horizontal strecthing and shrinking? I have been to a few tv shops and the salespeople claim there aren no tv's with this capability. I have been told by other shmup players that such tv's exist, but don't want to take a chance and buy a new tv hoping it has this feature in service mode. If anyone has a tv like this, please post the make and the model. Thanks in advance.

racecar · Post by **racecar** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 3:49 am

i got a 27" sony trinitron flat screen..it work's great with all of my systems/SG... i think most gamers like to sony(trinitron)/jvc (iart) flat screen tv for gaming

dbd · Post by **dbd** » Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:05 pm

I wish I could give you a list........

remember the days when the people that sold things in shops, actually knew all about the things they are selling?

That's such an easy question - they should have all kinds of salespeople that know that, or, know exactly how to find it out for you.

It's their job.

In fact, remember the days when all TVs had a dial or a fader-style control for V and H control, sizing,.........how bad things have gone, while getting way too complex and unservicable.

If you were able to use a large PC monitor, they tend to have picture size control as standard.

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 9:25 am

My PVM-2530 has those controls, but its actually on the PCB inside the monitor.

You could go for a monivision monitor, you can get a composite/svideo and component adaptor for it for 15khz Supergun type applications, but its main input is going to be the SVGA HD15 input for high resolution applications. Either way, you can A) use component or svideo or B) use an XRGB2+ and get all the benefits of H+V aligning.

go to www.monitoroutlet.com and type in monivision. They have a standard TV type and flat screen version. They are 27".

Kiel · Post by **Kiel** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 5:27 pm

Those look pretty good.

But do I really want to spend $1200 for a tate TV....For that much I could get an Egret 2....

MKL · Post by **MKL** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 9:37 pm

On Sony TVs the service mode is very easy to use (via remote) and you can do all the picture geometry adjustments you want:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v65/n ... SONY08.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v65/n ... SONY09.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v65/n ... tiger2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v65/n ... tiger3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v65/n ... tiger5.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v65/n ... tiger6.jpg

oxtsu · Post by **oxtsu** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:11 am

neorichieb1971 wrote:My PVM-2530 has those controls, but its actually on the PCB inside the monitor.

Hmm, I wonder if it's the same story for PVM-1910?

Thanks for that.

Stormowl · Post by **Stormowl** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 1:40 am

oxtsu wrote:
neorichieb1971 wrote:My PVM-2530 has those controls, but its actually on the PCB inside the monitor.
Hmm, I wonder if it's the same story for PVM-1910?

Thanks for that.

oxtsu, do you have a PVM-1910? i have one and was wondering the same thing about adjusting H/V sizing. i'm a little scared to go tinkering around inside of it if that's the case. if you find anything interesting let me know!

Kiel · Post by **Kiel** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:42 am

If anyone is looking at getting a new TV for tate/supergun/gaming, I say stay away from the newer Sony models, particularly their very newest models.

Yes the picture is sharp but they push the reds to an ungodly amount. And the very newest revisons wont let you adjust this through the service menu. I took mine back because I was so disgusted.

If you are wondering which model it was: KV27FS120. If I was an ISF tech I'd shit a brick if I had to try and properly calibrate one of these.

zlk · Post by **zlk** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:57 am

Thanks for the pictures MKL. I just want a tv I can adjust the horizontal and vertical stretching. I don't mind the image looking a bit off, but I do mind not being able to see the entire screen when I play.

MKL · Post by **MKL** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 1:12 pm

Kiel wrote:If anyone is looking at getting a new TV for tate/supergun/gaming, I say stay away from the newer Sony models, particularly their very newest models.

Yes the picture is sharp but they push the reds to an ungodly amount. And the very newest revisons wont let you adjust this through the service menu. I took mine back because I was so disgusted.

If you are wondering which model it was: KV27FS120. If I was an ISF tech I'd shit a brick if I had to try and properly calibrate one of these.

All this sounds unbelievable to me. Are you talking about US Sony TVs maybe? No RGB and also no geometry adjustment? Poor Americans...

Anyway, my TV is a scart one, this is the model (21"):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v65/n ... SONY01.jpg
And it is a NEW model, I bought it only a few months ago and of course is still available (price ~ 270 euros). BUT it's not a special case: I had the chance to try several other new Sony TVs (again scart TVs) and they're all the same (except for the smaller/portable models that understandably lack some features). Also the picture is just great, I couldn't ask for a better picture, really (the pics below don't make any justice in this sense).

Here's Samurai Shodown with a perfectly adjusted geometry:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v65/n ... amsho1.jpg

Completely stretched out (max values for HSIZ and VSIZ):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v65/n ... amsho3.jpg

Completely shrunk (0 values for HSIZ and VSIZ):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v65/n ... amsho2.jpg

So you can do what you want with the pic (note all the other parameters). And it can be tated no problem:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v65/n ... uff/01.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v65/n ... uff/02.jpg

Kiel · Post by **Kiel** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 5:42 pm

I could adjust it any way I wanted (HPOS, VPOS, HSIZE, VSIZE)

But it had very bad red push, meaning the overall color was very red and I could not be adjusted.

oxtsu · Post by **oxtsu** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:59 am

Stormowl wrote:
oxtsu wrote:
neorichieb1971 wrote:My PVM-2530 has those controls, but its actually on the PCB inside the monitor.
Hmm, I wonder if it's the same story for PVM-1910?

Thanks for that.
oxtsu, do you have a PVM-1910? i have one and was wondering the same thing about adjusting H/V sizing. i'm a little scared to go tinkering around inside of it if that's the case. if you find anything interesting let me know!

Stormowl, indeed I do. With some trepidation, I just opened it up to check for any H/V size adjustment.

There are master controls for sharpness (FOCUS dial) and contrast (SCREEN dial) on the back of the tube PCB. Also a few centering and RGB convergence adjustment dials, but none I could find for H/V size!

Post by **system11** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 2:15 pm

Kiel wrote:I could adjust it any way I wanted (HPOS, VPOS, HSIZE, VSIZE)

But it had very bad red push, meaning the overall color was very red and I could not be adjusted.

Are you running a supergun with pulldown resistors on the RGB lines? If not, that can cause colour overdrive, and depending on the TV some colours driven too high will show through more strongly than others. This isn't a deficiency in the TV in any way, this is down to the output voltage of arcade board colours being higher than the defined spec for RGB scart. Decent superguns will have resistors on these lines, if you don't have any already, I would recommend you fit them as a set of adjustment pots, one per line, then you can tailor the output to your TV (although dropping all by a flat 100 ohms usually is enough from memory).

Kiel · Post by **Kiel** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 6:00 pm

bloodflowers wrote: Are you running a supergun with pulldown resistors on the RGB lines? If not, that can cause colour overdrive, and depending on the TV some colours driven too high will show through more strongly than others. This isn't a deficiency in the TV in any way, this is down to the output voltage of arcade board colours being higher than the defined spec for RGB scart. Decent superguns will have resistors on these lines, if you don't have any already, I would recommend you fit them as a set of adjustment pots, one per line, then you can tailor the output to your TV (although dropping all by a flat 100 ohms usually is enough from memory).

My super gun has component video for outputs (not scart rgb) but has adjustment pots for each color. This happened with all my systems though, not just my supergun. Everything looks perfectly balanced on my JVC and Samsung TVs.

zlk · Post by **zlk** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 6:00 pm

I ended up buying a Sony kv-20fs120. In service mode it has all the necessary adjustments. Strangely enough, I still cannot get the entire Mushimesama screen displayed even when the screen is shrunk as much as possible. I see about 95% of it, which is much better than before.

Post by **nZero** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 7:33 pm

Kiel wrote:Everything looks perfectly balanced on my JVC and Samsung TVs.

I'll bet that took a bit of work. My 20" flat-tube Samsung severely oversaturated the reds out of the box. Nothing in the picture adjustment settings could save it. Finally, after I got it adjusted using the service menu (which took a bit of work) it turned into a pretty nice little TATE television. Great S-Video input.

Kiel · Post by **Kiel** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 9:42 pm

nZero wrote: I'll bet that took a bit of work. My 20" flat-tube Samsung severely oversaturated the reds out of the box. Nothing in the picture adjustment settings could save it. Finally, after I got it adjusted using the service menu (which took a bit of work) it turned into a pretty nice little TATE television. Great S-Video input.

Hardly any work at all, mine is one of their first generation HD tubes (27") and its been nothing short of spectacular. I wish their newer HD sets were as good as the one I have. I cant wait to get a widescreen tube so I can use the one I have now exclusively for tate.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 11:08 pm

Just a question.... how much did you drop on the Mushihime-sama board?

zlk · Post by **zlk** » Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:20 am

I dropped quite a bit.

I got mine from excellentcom and the going price is around $2100.

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Tue Feb 08, 2005 1:06 am

On the PVM-2530 there is a pcb on the right (might be on the left) side of the monitor. Its actually on the very side, so position yourself so your looking into the side of the screen.

Then when you find the PCB, you will see tiny holes that are about 3mm. Using a tiny flat ended screw driver you can turn to adjust. Each hole is labelled, but your going to need some light on the subject matter as the writing is tiny. You can move the picture in any direction, and stretch and shrink it in any direction as well.

Just look for a PCB with tiny holes, you'll work it out from there.

DANGER WARNING : I was told alot of electricity charges are in there.. so be careful.

captain ahar · Post by **captain ahar** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:04 am

man that sucks! i have the 20" trinitron and i want to have an exhaustive service mode! can i borrow one from you guys?

oxtsu · Post by **oxtsu** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 3:35 am

Regarding H/V size adjustment on Sony PVM-1910 RGB monitor...

neorichieb1971 wrote:Then when you find the PCB, you will see tiny holes that are about 3mm.

I was apprehensive about messing with those the first time (also they're not labeled as size adj. on 1910). Your info gave me a boost, so I tried again. It works! Though not perfect for every game, with some experimentation the balanced setting can be found.

If I have time, I'll go back again for some pics and write up some brief guide on the procedure.

japtor · Post by **japtor** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 10:05 pm

got any room for a jamma cab?

zlk · Post by **zlk** » Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:19 pm

What kind of cab?

zlk · Post by **zlk** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 12:40 am

Kiel wrote:If anyone is looking at getting a new TV for tate/supergun/gaming, I say stay away from the newer Sony models, particularly their very newest models.

Yes the picture is sharp but they push the reds to an ungodly amount. And the very newest revisons wont let you adjust this through the service menu. I took mine back because I was so disgusted.

If you are wondering which model it was: KV27FS120. If I was an ISF tech I'd shit a brick if I had to try and properly calibrate one of these.

I had some problems with the color red on my sony tv while playing DDP-DOJ. I went into service mode and changed the value of ACCS from "0" to "1" and it doesn't look too bad now.