XBOX 360 - 240p Video Conversion?

[robneal81]

the "DDSP off" switch switches the output between 480i and 240p. And of course you have to use the processed BNC outputs, not the HD15 "monitor" output.

If it doesn't work, I would try to confirm first that your display is compatible before going for another interface.

I definitely tried messing with the DDSP switch and it didn't really make any difference. I even tried unplugging between switching to make sure that wasn't an issue. All the rest of the switches should be off, correct?

I have a Sony 20M2U PVM...that should be compatible, right?

[Fudoh]

The last dip (comp. sync) needs to be enabled, but then again, if you get a picture both ways, it maybe doesn't matter.

No experience with that monitor. Works flawlessly on my BVMs and I don't see why exactly yours should be different.

[robneal81]

The last dip (comp. sync) needs to be enabled, but then again, if you get a picture both ways, it maybe doesn't matter.

No experience with that monitor. Works flawlessly on my BVMs and I don't see why exactly yours should be different.

So, just to confirm, both DDSP and Comp Sync need to be on (up) and the rest off (down)?

Also, if I get another one, is there a specific model you suggest? From the information on your website, I gathered that any Extron RGB interface that has "centering" controls would be the best purchase, as they can be used for 480i to 240p, as well as be used to tweak a 480p signal going into an Emotia. That being said, there are many Extron RGB interfaces and I was curious if you preferred one over another.

[Fudoh]

So, just to confirm, both DDSP and Comp Sync need to be on (up) and the rest off (down)?

really not sure about the DDSP one, might be one way or the other. But it doesn't matter. It should flip instantly and you should be able to tell the difference right away. It's like scanlines on/off.

Also, if I get another one, is there a specific model you suggest? From the information on your website, I gathered that any Extron RGB interface that has "centering" controls would be the best purchase, as they can be used for 480i to 240p, as well as be used to tweak a 480p signal going into an Emotia. That being said, there are many Extron RGB interfaces and I was curious if you preferred one over another.

not really. I certainly had 6 or 7 different ones. Eventually it should not matter. There are not many different ones with vertical shifting though, so if you want that, your choices are kinda limited.

[robneal81]

really not sure about the DDSP one, might be one way or the other. But it doesn't matter. It should flip instantly and you should be able to tell the difference right away. It's like scanlines on/off.

Okay, it definitely doesn't work then. I just tried it again: I powered it on with the comp sync on and the rest off and when I flipped it, nothing happened. I unplugged the power and tried the same with both DDSP and comp sync on. No difference at all, really.

not really. I certainly had 6 or 7 different ones. Eventually it should not matter. There are not many different ones with vertical shifting though, so if you want that, your choices are kinda limited.

Okay, I'll look for a different model than the 580xi, just so I can try something different. Thanks again for your help.

[fagin]

If the 580 doesn't work with your CRT, then another RGB unit won't differ IMO.

I have seen the same unit work with one set and not another.... It's down to the chassis in your CRT.

I have found you have to ensure a specific connection method to replicate the pseudo 240p picture. Let me connect my 580 to my BVM and ill give you some specific instructions. I have the 580 myself.

[robneal81]

If the 580 doesn't work with your CRT, then another RGB unit won't differ IMO.

I have seen the same unit work with one set and not another.... It's down to the chassis in your CRT.

I have found you have to ensure a specific connection method to replicate the pseudo 240p picture. Let me connect my 580 to my BVM and ill give you some specific instructions. I have the 580 myself.

I just tried an Extron RGB 192 and it was the same: I couldn't see any difference at all with or without it. I guess that means my monitor isn't compatible and if so, that's really disappointing. 480p to 240p works perfect through my Emotia. I was hoping to use these to get 480i to 240p.

Is there anything else I can try?

[fagin]

Told you didn't I.

Let me try my 580 and tell you what to do to get it to work..... in case you're missing a step. Been busy today so not had chance.... will get back to this tomorrow (just about to go out as it's Saturday night here - woohoo!)

[Fudoh]

Is there a point in going 480i > 240p instead of 480p > 240p - especially if you already have an Emotia anyway ?

[robneal81]

Told you didn't I. Let me try my 580 and tell you what to do to get it to work..... in case you're missing a step. Been busy today so not had chance.... will get back to this tomorrow (just about to go out as it's Saturday night here - woohoo!)

Thanks, I appreciate it. Take your time.

For the record, I tried the 580xi on a friend's BVM and we couldn't get it working there either, but it was a totally different problem: No matter what we tried, the top of the screen looked off-sync:

[robneal81]

Is there a point in going 480i > 240p instead of 480p > 240p - especially if you already have an Emotia anyway ?

Yes, for 480i-only sources. The first that comes to mind is my RGB-modded GBA, which is 480i only. Another is my Gamecube. If I want to play GC on my RGB monitor, I have 3 choices: Leave it in 480i (I'd really rather not), convert 480i to 240p, or take the component cables I spent over $100 on and try to mod them for VGA...then run them through my Emotia for 240p.

In all honesty, my 480i-240p quest is really just for my GBA games. A much, MUCH better solution would be to find a way to have the Gamecube's Game Boy Player output in 240p natively. People have found ways to force 480p, so I'm hoping someone will eventually find a way to force 240p. If anyone has any thoughts on that, maybe PM me, so we don't derail the topic...I get annoyed when other people get off topic and I don't want to be "that guy"

[Fudoh]

Cube w/ GB player in 480p through the Emotia looks stunning. I've done this over here.

[robneal81]

Cube w/ GB player in 480p through the Emotia looks stunning. I've done this over here.

Agreed. I've never tried adding an RGB interface between the cube and Emotia like you suggest on your site, however it still looked AMAZING when I tried it. I borrowed a friend's GC VGA cable to test...so I guess I'll have to get off my ass and make my own now

[Fudoh]

If you put a switch on the D/A converter chip you can switch between VGA and component whenever you want. I would still put a HD15 connector at the cable's end, since it's easier to breakout from VGA to component than the other way around. Or just use a BNC cable right away. 5 connectors for RGBHV or 3 in component mode.

[fagin]

This is interesting.....

Just tried my 360 (SCART RGB) with the Sync Strike+RGB 580 to my BVM.

It didn't work as expected.

Upon messing with the BVM it has now started showing Pseudo 240p.


360 SCART RGB -> Sync Strike (powered via external 5v PSU) -> RGB 580 -> R,G, B to BVM.

ALL DIP's on 580 set to OFF.

Note: NO external sync line.

BVM set to INTERNAL sync.

Adjust the video level (on the front of the 580) to stablise the sync and video signal.



It doesn't make sense but it works.

[robneal81]

That's really strange. Before you changed the BVM to internal sync, did it do the same thing that happened in the picture I posted?

Also, any idea why this wouldn't work on a PVM? Thanks for testing!

[fagin]

Scrap that above..... you start a game and it all goes to shite.

This specific BVM is not compatible.

[fagin]

Also, any idea why this wouldn't work on a PVM? Thanks for testing!

It's all down to the chassis and how it interprets the signal. It really is pot luck on what chassis this works on. It's flawless on two of my CRT Arcade Monitors. They are both different chassis, but it works fine on both of them. Outside of that environment I have never achieved the same results on another CRT. I know Fudoh has, but these have been with different chassis.

[robneal81]

That's weird. I saw your YouTube video about the 580xi...what monitor were you using then?

Edit: I didn't see you other post before I wrote this. Fudoh, what monitor were you using with it?

[fagin]

As mentioned above.... arcade chassis.

[Fudoh]

My BVM (20F1E), RGBs connection with 4 BNC cables.

[moshpit]

As far as I know, the 360 does only output composite video in 15khz RGB mode. Maybe the H/V sync pins on the connector are active as well and could be combined for pure c-sync, but the standard RGB cable certainly uses composite video for sync.

I am looking at my xbox 360 connected to a PVM 2130qm through a scart switch (which has a composite/rgb switch) at this very moment and the picture looks pretty much like a nice RGB (480i though) picture to me

edit: how can I find out if it's a composite or RGB picture?

[Fudoh]

toggle the switch ? Does your 2130 have a phsyical scart input ? If not, RGBs and composite video aren't shared, are they ?

[Sarda]

Guys, I tried reading some threads and this was the closest to my question that I could find, let see if you guys can help me out.

I just bought a 15khz arcade monitor which I'll use to plug a PC from VGA to the Sintron converter (http://www.sintron-hk.com/GBS-8100-VGA- ... 00046.aspx) -

Now, from what I've been reading, I'll config Hyperspin and windows to run at 640x480 and the board will output everything in 480i to display in my monitor.

My question is: what if I want to get a 240p signal? How much improvement would there be and how can I achieve this? Only by using a Super Emotia?

If anybody can shed any light on the subject, thanks a lot!

[Asure]

Rise from your grave. Sorry about that.

I just grabbed a 109xi from ebay to convert the 480i to 240p.

The 109xi has a DSUB15 input. It's designed to plug into a PC or Mac or beamer with VGA port.
Specs are clear, it can accept 15K to 130K horizontal sync, so this should work for my purpose.

I took apart an Xbox 360 RGB scart cable. I built a LM1881 sync cleaner, this gives me composite and vsync.
Problem #1, the DSUB15 wants h/v sync separate, not composite. Got a female DSUB15, connected it up anyway, no signal, nothing on the display.
Verified connections and proper pinout, all ok.

Question #1, How do i wire up the LM1881 output correctly to the DSUB15?
(I read somewhere i should be able to get away with wiring the LM1881 composite output to the green pin, but this does not work for me.)

Someone mentioned this setup worked in this topic, but not enough details how he wired up the xbox to the 109xi.

Edit before posting: And looking around a bit more, i found that you connect only composite sync, to the HSYNC pin (13) on the DB15..
Now to wire up the BNC to scart to plug the output into a viletim! (tomorrow, need sleep now..)

Edit: This problem was caused by a missing ground wire (my mistake) to rset on the LM1881, sorry about that!

[antron]

If needed I believe you get hsync by feeding vsync and csync into an xor gate.

Basically whenever csync is and vsync ain't.

[_rm_]

This may be a silly question but i'm kind of a noob in terms of "video chains".

I've read this thread and i would like to improve the look of my Xbox 360 shmups, since i also have a Trisync Rodotron like Fagin.

My question is:

Instead of
- "XBOX 360 with RGB SCART -> SCART to DSUB15 with Sync Cleaner -> Extron RGB 580xi -> BNC to DSUB15 -> Multisync Monitor as a 15khz signa"

can i use
- XBOX 360 with Microsoft VGA cable -> Extron RGB 580xi -> BNC to DSUB15 -> Multisync Monitor as a 15khz signa

Thanks is advance

[Fudoh]

The 2nd alternative doesn't give you a 15khz signal, but a 31khz signal (480p or higher). But if you got a trisync monitor anyway, I would say you're better off using a VGA cable + MiniSLG/SLG3000 instead of trying a 240p conversion.

[_rm_]

I already use vga + scanline generator but i am not happy with the effect, it is not similar to the great scanlines this chassis can produce in 15khz. I think this is the same opinion Fagin has.

But the first chain i mentioned it is not a 15Khz signal either, right? What is the difference in terms of output between VGA and scart when the Xbox360 is set to 640x480?

[Fudoh]

If you want better (as in true 15khz 240p) you need a proper scan converter (Emotia, UVC, Genius). If you're using VGA + SLG right now, a simple interface offset change won't make you happy.

Scart is 15khz with 480i (240 lines per field), VGA is 31khz with 480p (480 lines per frame). The first chain is a 15khz signal, but it's not a proper 240p signal. It's still a 480i signal with each other field moved up/down one line to mimic a 240p signal. It gives you scanlines like a true 240p signal, but it will show noticable flicker. Certainly won't satisfy you, since you're used to a proper (as in stable) 480p signal already.