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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2022 3:37 pm 


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Posts: 1784
Question for Tim, recently, my NESRGB thats been working fine for 6+years seems to "almost" lose sync on mostly dark scenes, such as title screen on Zelda 2, certain password screens, etc. Its like the blacks start to brighten/turn gray, and the top of the screen begins to "warp" a bit, but quickly returns to normal when getting more color population on the screen. Almost like the sync is about to let go.

I have no idea whether this is specific to my TV, a 36" Trinitron Wega, my NESRGB unit, or my NES itself (perhaps drying caps?). All I know is that no other system has this issue on this TV, so Im assuming the TV is not the issue. I have yet to tear into it, just posting here to see if Tim or anyone could spitball possible culprits.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2022 3:47 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 1892
Not Tim, but that sounds like too much attenuation going on. Since you're using a Wega I'm going to guess you're using a component cable. Have you tried using a different cable?


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2022 4:36 pm 



Joined: 28 Sep 2022
Posts: 6
Just out of curiosity, has anyone with an unmodified early 4.0 recorded the pre battle flashing in ff1/ff2? I know how the reversed demphasis looks on Noah's Ark and Rampart. Just curious if the flashing still looks fairly similar. I notice no one reported it despite people testing FF1 and the issue being present on all boards (I think).


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2022 4:44 pm 


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Joined: 14 Nov 2020
Posts: 175
Rekaens wrote:
Lopenator wrote:
If I had to take a guess I would say this. I'll double check on my board today.


Thank you very much, i look forward to your reply!
Yes run a conductor at those two points.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2022 4:52 pm 



Joined: 24 Oct 2022
Posts: 4
Lopenator wrote:
Rekaens wrote:
Lopenator wrote:
If I had to take a guess I would say this. I'll double check on my board today.


Thank you very much, i look forward to your reply!
Yes run a conductor at those two points.


Thank you so much, will do so after dinner, and then hope everything works :)

EDIT: It works, thank you so much!


Last edited by Rekaens on Thu Oct 27, 2022 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2022 5:30 pm 


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Posts: 175
https://youtube.com/shorts/oQBDmHNsplk?feature=share

https://youtu.be/sHr6iK_TF10

Here is a couple of other videos of the jitter I am getting through the RT2X Pro. It does not happen on a CRT.

I should note it doesn't happen all the time and it's mostly certain parts of games where it's bad.

For example I don't notice it on the Castlevanias but it's bad in Kirby and super Mario 2 and 3.


Last edited by Lopenator on Sun Oct 30, 2022 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2022 8:27 pm 



Joined: 04 Oct 2022
Posts: 7
Lopenator wrote:
https://youtube.com/shorts/oQBDmHNsplk?feature=share

https://youtu.be/sHr6iK_TF10

Here is a couple of other videos of the jitter I am getting through the RT2X Pro. It does not happen on a CRT.

I should note it doesn't happen all the time and it's mostly certain parts of games where it's bad.

For example I don't notice it and of the Castlevanias but it's bad in Kirby and super Mario 2 and 3.


This looks pretty similar to something I was experiencing as well. For me, it manifested on certain screens of (Japanese) Mario 2 and Final Fantasy after playing for a while (sometimes hours, sometimes less).

I made a couple changes and the issue has yet to reappear (not sure if these fixed it or were just coincidental):
1. I installed the 220pF capacitor between PPU pin 13 and ground as Tim recommended.
2. I switched my sync type from composite (V) to luma (Y).


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:01 pm 


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Joined: 14 Nov 2020
Posts: 175
Tyler Red wrote:
Lopenator wrote:
https://youtube.com/shorts/oQBDmHNsplk?feature=share

https://youtu.be/sHr6iK_TF10

Here is a couple of other videos of the jitter I am getting through the RT2X Pro. It does not happen on a CRT.

I should note it doesn't happen all the time and it's mostly certain parts of games where it's bad.

For example I don't notice it and of the Castlevanias but it's bad in Kirby and super Mario 2 and 3.


This looks pretty similar to something I was experiencing as well. For me, it manifested on certain screens of (Japanese) Mario 2 and Final Fantasy after playing for a while (sometimes hours, sometimes less).

I made a couple changes and the issue has yet to reappear (not sure if these fixed it or were just coincidental):
1. I installed the 220pF capacitor between PPU pin 13 and ground as Tim recommended.
2. I switched my sync type from composite (V) to luma (Y).
How would I change from C to Y? I am using voultars QSB to a multi out. I thought one was for svideo and the other for RGB

The fact that it doesn't happen on a crt makes me wonder if that's even the issue. It seems like it's jitter that's only happening on hdtvs.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2022 12:20 am 



Joined: 23 Aug 2022
Posts: 4
Lopenator wrote:
How would I change from C to Y? I am using voultars QSB to a multi out. I thought one was for svideo and the other for RGB


You would need a cable wired for Sync on Luma like this one:
https://retro-access.com/collections/ca ... 5160230067


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2022 1:09 am 


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Posts: 175
starlightk7 wrote:
Lopenator wrote:
How would I change from C to Y? I am using voultars QSB to a multi out. I thought one was for svideo and the other for RGB


You would need a cable wired for Sync on Luma like this one:
https://retro-access.com/collections/ca ... 5160230067
I don't have scart though. So there's no modification on the nesrgb?


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2022 1:32 am 



Joined: 04 Oct 2022
Posts: 7
Lopenator wrote:
The fact that it doesn't happen on a crt makes me wonder if that's even the issue. It seems like it's jitter that's only happening on hdtvs.


Certainly could be - I don’t have a CRT to verify that though. My setup is: Famicom > Passthrough scart cable > OSSC > HDTV.

Lopenator wrote:
I don't have scart though. So there's no modification on the nesrgb?


No, this change does require a modification to the NESRGB install (for the Famicom anyway): As part of that process I had to select one of the NESRGB sync pads (labelled CS#, V, Y, or PPUV) to wire to the Famicom PA Adapter’s sync pad (labelled V_CS#). As noted, I had originally select V for composite sync, but after switching to Y for sync on luma, the jitter I was seeing vanished.

I’m not sure if the adapter board for the NES has similar options?

Here’s a quote from Tim’s Famicom install guide:
Quote:
Solder wire to the video pads. If you have installed the S-Video 4p connector on the P/A board you should connect wires to the Y and C pads. If you have installed the RGB 8p connector you should connect wire to the R, G, B, and another for the sync signal (labelled V_CS# on the P/A board). I recommend using the Y signal for sync as it is the most compatible, but V or CS# or PPUV may be used.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2022 2:00 am 



Joined: 23 Aug 2022
Posts: 4
Lopenator wrote:
I don't have scart though. So there's no modification on the nesrgb?


Since you are using the QSB adapter its not as simple for you to try altering it as if you had it wired manually since the adapters for the QSB have chosen the wiring layout. Sync on Luma for RGB was only really used on SCART sometimes afaik, so I don't think you'll find other cables pre-wired that way, though you could modify your own. If your choice of cable has in cable circuitry though I'm not sure what if any affects this may have on it.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2022 2:08 am 


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Posts: 175
starlightk7 wrote:
Lopenator wrote:
I don't have scart though. So there's no modification on the nesrgb?


Since you are using the QSB adapter its not as simple for you to try altering it as if you had it wired manually since the adapters for the QSB have chosen the wiring layout. Sync on Luma for RGB was only really used on SCART sometimes afaik, so I don't think you'll find other cables pre-wired that way, though you could modify your own. If your choice of cable has in cable circuitry though I'm not sure what if any affects this may have on it.
I'm only trying to decrease the jitter I get when using the HD Retrovision through my rt2xpro. I don't even know if changing sync will fix it.

I have been using svideo because there is no jitter on it.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2022 4:58 am 


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Posts: 18
Got a V4 kit last week and installed it over the weekend only to have issues with it. LED 7 will blink then go solid on boot up, LED 0 comes on too but stays solid. I can swap palettes with the controller still confirming it with the LED moving.

Something else I have been wondering is the jumper settings i was looking for j8 to activate 75 ohm sync but noticed j9 has taken its place?


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2022 2:35 am 



Joined: 17 Nov 2022
Posts: 5
I've been attempting to use an NESRGB4 on an NTSC front loader. I keep getting led7 flashing rapidly on startup with led0 staying on. This occurs with both the original reset capacitor, the included one, and both in parallel. The NES continues to output it's native composite signal and games work correctly as far as I can tell. Also I have jumpers j5 and j6 connected. With palette 1 grounded.
Any help would be greatly appreciated,


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 1:37 am 



Joined: 21 Nov 2022
Posts: 5
:arrow: I'm stumped. I am attempting to install the v4 board into my NES front loader. When I power up, I get game audio and controller works in-game, but no picture. Right now, LED 0 is lit and LED 7 is blinking fast, then solid. If I switch to a palette (LEDs 1-6), I get picture but it's all garbled/messed up. What I've done:

-I've tried syncing through V and CS, both to the same results.
-Yes, I installed 224 cap as instructed, but still no dice
-many years ago, I removed pin 4 of the CIC lockout chip to prevent blinking reset. Is this my issue? The console worked fine before this install but does the NESRGB need that pin?
-PPU was desoldered flawlessly so I highly doubt that this is the problem

Help!


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 12:42 am 



Joined: 21 Nov 2022
Posts: 5
Looks like 3 of us now have the same problem. Any thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 8:31 am 



Joined: 04 Oct 2022
Posts: 7
The fast blinking LED indicates the NESRGB indicates a problem with the reset circuit. From Tim’s docs:

Quote:
There is a row of LED indicators on the NESRGB board labelled 0 through 7. This shows which palette is selected and is also used for test mode. The 0 LED comes one when no palette is selected and the NESRGB board is disabled. The 1-6 LEDs come on to show which of the six palettes is selected. LED 7 is a warning indicator. It blinks when detects a problem with the power up reset circuit.

The NESRGB can detect if the timing delay is incorrect and will blink LED 7 at power up if this is the case. A fast blink means the timing capacitor must be replaced. A slow blink means it is marginal.


You could tinker with larger capacitance capacitors in the reset circuit, but I lack the expertise to suggest a value (I’m not even sure what would be safe to use here).

Something to try if you’ve already swapped that capacitor - to get my Famicom to boot most games I have to go through this sequence:
1. Turn on the console with the game inserted
2. Wait for 3-4 seconds with the console on
3. Hit the reset button (NOT the power switch)
That gets all my games to start; I assume the root cause is timing issues on the V4 hardware. I did replace the reset capacitor with a higher capacitance one, and while it eliminated the blinking, most games won’t boot unless I do the steps above.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:31 pm 



Joined: 21 Nov 2022
Posts: 5
Tyler Red wrote:
The fast blinking LED indicates the NESRGB indicates a problem with the reset circuit. From Tim’s docs:

Quote:
There is a row of LED indicators on the NESRGB board labelled 0 through 7. This shows which palette is selected and is also used for test mode. The 0 LED comes one when no palette is selected and the NESRGB board is disabled. The 1-6 LEDs come on to show which of the six palettes is selected. LED 7 is a warning indicator. It blinks when detects a problem with the power up reset circuit.

The NESRGB can detect if the timing delay is incorrect and will blink LED 7 at power up if this is the case. A fast blink means the timing capacitor must be replaced. A slow blink means it is marginal.


You could tinker with larger capacitance capacitors in the reset circuit, but I lack the expertise to suggest a value (I’m not even sure what would be safe to use here).

Something to try if you’ve already swapped that capacitor - to get my Famicom to boot most games I have to go through this sequence:
1. Turn on the console with the game inserted
2. Wait for 3-4 seconds with the console on
3. Hit the reset button (NOT the power switch)
That gets all my games to start; I assume the root cause is timing issues on the V4 hardware. I did replace the reset capacitor with a higher capacitance one, and while it eliminated the blinking, most games won’t boot unless I do the steps above.


No, this doesn't bring about any change.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2022 4:16 am 



Joined: 17 Nov 2022
Posts: 5
seshpilot wrote:
Tyler Red wrote:
The fast blinking LED indicates the NESRGB indicates a problem with the reset circuit. From Tim’s docs:

Quote:
There is a row of LED indicators on the NESRGB board labelled 0 through 7. This shows which palette is selected and is also used for test mode. The 0 LED comes one when no palette is selected and the NESRGB board is disabled. The 1-6 LEDs come on to show which of the six palettes is selected. LED 7 is a warning indicator. It blinks when detects a problem with the power up reset circuit.

The NESRGB can detect if the timing delay is incorrect and will blink LED 7 at power up if this is the case. A fast blink means the timing capacitor must be replaced. A slow blink means it is marginal.


You could tinker with larger capacitance capacitors in the reset circuit, but I lack the expertise to suggest a value (I’m not even sure what would be safe to use here).

Something to try if you’ve already swapped that capacitor - to get my Famicom to boot most games I have to go through this sequence:
1. Turn on the console with the game inserted
2. Wait for 3-4 seconds with the console on
3. Hit the reset button (NOT the power switch)
That gets all my games to start; I assume the root cause is timing issues on the V4 hardware. I did replace the reset capacitor with a higher capacitance one, and while it eliminated the blinking, most games won’t boot unless I do the steps above.


No, this doesn't bring about any change.


I've also tried higher capacitors up to 1uF. Still no dice. This is with a NES-CPU_010 board if it matters.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 7:49 pm 



Joined: 28 Sep 2022
Posts: 6
seshpilot wrote:
-many years ago, I removed pin 4 of the CIC lockout chip to prevent blinking reset. Is this my issue? The console worked fine before this install but does the NESRGB need that pin?

While I haven't removed the CIC pin, I did do the two wire mod for no-cut CIC disabling on my US frontloader, and NESRGB v4 is working as intended.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 12:32 am 



Joined: 21 Nov 2022
Posts: 5
elgarlic wrote:
seshpilot wrote:
-many years ago, I removed pin 4 of the CIC lockout chip to prevent blinking reset. Is this my issue? The console worked fine before this install but does the NESRGB need that pin?

While I haven't removed the CIC pin, I did do the two wire mod for no-cut CIC disabling on my US frontloader, and NESRGB v4 is working as intended.

Thanks for confirming that. I'm still wondering if for some reason, it needs to see that pin inserted on the NES10 chip.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 5:55 am 



Joined: 04 Apr 2021
Posts: 147
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
seshpilot wrote:
-many years ago, I removed pin 4 of the CIC lockout chip to prevent blinking reset. Is this my issue? The console worked fine before this install but does the NESRGB need that pin?

Since I've disabled my lockout chip by cutting that pin before I did the NESRGB mod, I can safely say no, since it didn't affect NESRGB in my case.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 12:25 am 



Joined: 17 Nov 2022
Posts: 5
Image

OK, so I went and installed this on another nes mother board. LED 7 no longer blinks. However, I'm still not getting a palette to select. LED 0 is the only one on and I'm not getting video from the NESRGB or mainboard. Any ideas?

edit:fixed image link


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:42 am 


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Death_Clock wrote:
Image

OK, so I went and installed this on another nes mother board. LED 7 no longer blinks. However, I'm still not getting a palette to select. LED 0 is the only one on and I'm not getting video from the NESRGB or mainboard. Any ideas?

edit:fixed image link



Hmm I wonder if the timing issue is motherboard revision specific for the NESRGB v4. My console would boot-up with LED 0, but using the controller palette swapping got it to load a palette and output video for me. After a while though my console will freeze after say 15-20 minutes of gameplay. So maybe forcing a palette swap with the switch or controller will get it to load up for you. This has been an annoying issue for many people. Hope Tim can chime in on this and let us know thats going on.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:05 pm 



Joined: 17 Nov 2022
Posts: 5
Donttouchthedoor wrote:
Hmm I wonder if the timing issue is motherboard revision specific for the NESRGB v4. My console would boot-up with LED 0, but using the controller palette swapping got it to load a palette and output video for me. After a while though my console will freeze after say 15-20 minutes of gameplay. So maybe forcing a palette swap with the switch or controller will get it to load up for you. This has been an annoying issue for many people. Hope Tim can chime in on this and let us know thats going on.


Thanks for the tip. Wired it for controller input and using button combo got it to display an image... Unfortunately seems a bit garbled up. Going to try checking all the solder joints.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 11:35 pm 



Joined: 17 Nov 2022
Posts: 5
Death_Clock wrote:
Donttouchthedoor wrote:
Hmm I wonder if the timing issue is motherboard revision specific for the NESRGB v4. My console would boot-up with LED 0, but using the controller palette swapping got it to load a palette and output video for me. After a while though my console will freeze after say 15-20 minutes of gameplay. So maybe forcing a palette swap with the switch or controller will get it to load up for you. This has been an annoying issue for many people. Hope Tim can chime in on this and let us know thats going on.


Thanks for the tip. Wired it for controller input and using button combo got it to display an image... Unfortunately seems a bit garbled up. Going to try checking all the solder joints.


Still can't figure out whats causing the graphics issue. Checking for continuity I found that PPU pins 2-9 and 14-18 were no longer connected. Is this expected? All others were still in continuity.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2022 3:35 am 


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Death_Clock wrote:
Image

OK, so I went and installed this on another nes mother board. LED 7 no longer blinks. However, I'm still not getting a palette to select. LED 0 is the only one on and I'm not getting video from the NESRGB or mainboard. Any ideas?

edit:fixed image link


might be trying another NES to install my RGB kit into as anything ive tried on my install that is recommended isnt working. I really hope Tim can chime in and let us know whats going on or at least try to help us diagnose whats going on or what we could try to fix the issues.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 5:06 pm 



Joined: 30 Mar 2017
Posts: 20
So far, the 47pF capacitor soldered to pin 20 and pin 13 has fixed all seven front loader consoles I had modded. However, on my most recent one, I am getting an issue where there is video shifting from left to right back and forth with minor color changes during it. I have swapped the CPU, PPU, WRAM and VRAM chips, 7805 voltage regulator, complete recap; even the crystal oscillator, but nothing has made a difference. Has anyone experienced this before?


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:34 pm 



Joined: 21 Nov 2022
Posts: 5
Here's where I'm currently at:

-Console still blinks at startup on 7 but seems to be starting with audio. Video image still boots to 0.
-When I check the composite output, I get audio and video (a bit garbled looking though):
Image

When I attempt to use the component output however, no matter which way I try to sync (CS, V, C, or Y), this is all I get:
Image

Any thoughts?


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