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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:19 am 


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Joined: 10 Apr 2019
Posts: 84
Location: California, USA
Kez wrote:
Perhaps it's the resolutions of the game you're playing? A lot of games only use e.g. 224 pixels of the vertical res so the game is letterboxed in 240p.


Hey Mike, is there any chance there might me an H Sampling mode for 224 vertical arcade games down the road? Love the new Firmware update, appreciate all your work :) ty


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:40 am 



Joined: 12 Oct 2021
Posts: 2
While we're posting wishlists, would it be feasible to have the 5x save resolution and scanline selection on a per input resolution basis? I've noticed that 240p, 288p, 480i and 576i scale differently and sometimes look better with different resolutions, and also I think the scanline options (aperture grill FTW) have more of a place with 240p pixel art rather than say a pristine PS2 game over component, where I might choose a simple polyphase scanline or something.

I noticed that it already saves different resolutions for PAL vs. NTSC content which is great, I'm basically talking about expanding this.

I can't stress enough how impressed I am with this product.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:34 pm 



Joined: 16 Nov 2019
Posts: 5
hello,
I've just received my rt5x, updated it to fw 1.99 and added it to my setup.
a lot of consoles (snes, pce, MD...) on an extron witch outputs to 4 crts and a 4k lcd lg tv.

I output simultaneously to all.

tested with my pce and snes.
I have an mage and sound delay (1/4sec) between the crts and the lcd.
obviously it's he lcd that has the delay in all resolutions BUT 540p, 768p and 1200p which work as expected.
I tried to change any options but didn't help.

I don't have any delay issue with the same setup and my legacy ossc, whatever the resolution.

do you have a clue?
You won't notice it unless you have a simultaneous crt and lcd running...

thanks


Last edited by robinmasters on Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:40 pm 



Joined: 21 Jul 2014
Posts: 111
Location: UK
Are you using frame lock mode? Triple buffer has a small amount of lag.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:42 pm 



Joined: 16 Nov 2019
Posts: 5
I tried both, same result.
I'm talking about 1/4sec of lag.
it's very noticeable


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:52 pm 



Joined: 01 Jul 2017
Posts: 247
I can confirm that the RT5X only has a buffer that's 4 frames deep (of which only about 2 are in use at any time for progressive scan and 4 are used for motion detection and deinterlacing) and no audio buffer to speak of, so it's probably not coming from that :P

Most likely the odd resolution from the OSSC triggers the display to into a "PC" or "Game Mode". The clue is that 768p and 540p don't have lag, which are both weird resolutions compared to stock 1080p. I'd start by looking for those settings on your TV.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:57 pm 



Joined: 16 Nov 2019
Posts: 5
well I've just tested by forcing the game mode and I have no more lag.
you were right Mike.
thank you for helping so quickly.
can't wait to test the rt5x pro


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 2:00 am 



Joined: 21 Jun 2019
Posts: 11
Hey, is anyone getting noise issues with GBI with the 5x? I'm pretty sure it's the GameCube or the official component cables causing the issue and not the 5x, but I'm having issues getting around it because both Video LPF as well as the Pre emph. Filter are both disabled in GBI mode.

My capture card is really crappy, so it can't do high bitrates, but it's most notable in solid grey colors:
https://imgur.com/a/4dtsbkE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62mkSKwrg9s

Like I said it's very hard to see with my equipment, but hopefully someone sees it or has noticed it before. It scrolls down the screen but the noise seems to get faster and faster and than starts slowing down which is odd. The images/video were taken from the start of Coldman's in Megaman and Bass, if anyone wants to compare for themselves. I imagine there's a technical reason LPF can't be used on GBI.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:35 am 



Joined: 21 Oct 2021
Posts: 2
Hi to all pal users! I got a massive shift to the right and a black border on the left of my screen when using the retrotink 5x with the wii in 576i mode (widescreen) . In 480p the alignment is perfect. I wouldnt use it in 576i mode if not necessary but a handful of palgames unfortunately only support 50hertz. I'm using the original wii yuv cables and my wii is set to edtv and widescreen.. this issue doesnt happen with older firmwares of the retrotink. Does anyone experience the same? Sorry for my bad english.. thank u and let me know , Flo


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:08 pm 



Joined: 17 Sep 2012
Posts: 447
Anyone happen to use an Avermedia Live Gamer 4K with the RT5X? I'm trying to figure out the source of audio popping.

The Tink is outputting 1440p and I've been using an RGB modded SNES Jr. The passthrough from the capture card into my display works just fine. No audio popping at all. But on RECentral or OBS, I'm getting sporadic popping. As a test, I hooked up my PC Engine with a Super SD System 3, and surprisingly no popping both through the passthrough and RECentral/OBS. Back on the SNES Jr., I tried 720p, 1080p (all modes) and 1200p and so far I don't hear any popping there.

I'm at a loss of what it could be. Could it be jitter? 1440p being more stringent on timings?

Sample of the popping: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OH4hDIdGUPs (Yes, I know the ratio is wrong on the capture, RECentral handles 1920x1440 as 2560x1440 and I didn't want to make any edits.)

Edit: This is on Triple Buffer mode, to confirm.


Last edited by eightbitminiboss on Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:13 pm 


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Joined: 20 Aug 2021
Posts: 13
This happens with all consoles? When this is the case try different hdmi cable. There was one user that reported the same issue.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:15 pm 



Joined: 17 Sep 2012
Posts: 447
WobblingPixels wrote:
This happens with all consoles? When this is the case try different hdmi cable. There was one user that reported the same issue.


So far just the SNES. The PC Engine as I mentioned, did not exhibit the problem. I haven't checked with my other consoles yet as I doing this in the middle of the night.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:40 am 



Joined: 21 Jun 2019
Posts: 11
WobblingPixels wrote:
This happens with all consoles? When this is the case try different hdmi cable. There was one user that reported the same issue.


I tried with two other cables, a nice braided one and a generic looking one, and no dice sadly. The one I use on the 5X normally is an orange Monoprice one.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 11:37 am 



Joined: 09 Mar 2020
Posts: 59
Does anyone else thinks the image looks a bit washed out when using any scanline setting other than int. mod.? I know that there was an update to compensate for the lost brightness but I don't really like the look of it.

I know it would be another setting but I'd love if the brightness boost was a separate option. Maybe with the upcoming menu system it could be feasible?


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 11:58 am 



Joined: 21 Oct 2021
Posts: 2
Since firmware 1.98 there is a massive shift to the right when using 576i input in widescreen mode.. at least i can confirm it for the pal wii. 480p is perfectly centered and looks amazing. I hope this will be fixed soon since some palgames only run in 50 hertz..


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 3:46 pm 



Joined: 11 May 2021
Posts: 30
Location: Tokyo
daty2k1 wrote:
Does anyone else thinks the image looks a bit washed out when using any scanline setting other than int. mod.? I know that there was an update to compensate for the lost brightness but I don't really like the look of it.

I know it would be another setting but I'd love if the brightness boost was a separate option. Maybe with the upcoming menu system it could be feasible?

Yes, it looks washed out to me when using anything other than polyphase. The video LPF does something very similar when set to medium, as well, but the rest of the video LPF settings don't seem to change it much.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2021 11:49 pm 


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Joined: 09 Jun 2017
Posts: 256
daty2k1 wrote:
Does anyone else thinks the image looks a bit washed out when using any scanline setting other than int. mod.? I know that there was an update to compensate for the lost brightness but I don't really like the look of it.

I know it would be another setting but I'd love if the brightness boost was a separate option. Maybe with the upcoming menu system it could be feasible?


I'd say that saturation would probably be lost somewhat with any type of brightness boosting and it is noticeable if you're looking for it, but I can't say I find it to be something I'm bothered by. I'd rather have the brightness bumped up to compensate for the scanlines. That said, it'd be nice to be able to control the brightness boost via the 5X menu. Although, I notice it in the pics I took, I don't really consider the scanline pics as washed out. The colors just aren't as heavy. I suppose you could adjust that manually on your TV. Honestly, I'd say the color in the scanline modes are more representative of a CRT with a more bloomed look. I never had the color set quite as saturated as the first pic on my CRTs.

https://ibb.co/qjnQmVP


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:47 am 



Joined: 15 Nov 2018
Posts: 39
eightbitminiboss wrote:
Anyone happen to use an Avermedia Live Gamer 4K with the RT5X? I'm trying to figure out the source of audio popping.

I downloaded the audio of your video to check out the waveform, and the popping you're getting is identical to what I was getting when capturing PlayStation 4 with a certain HDMI splitter set to a specific set of EDIDs with the Live Gamer 4K. As in your case, audio was completely fine on my display, but capture was problematic. I was able to fix it by choosing a non-HDR EDID on the splitter or using a different model of splitter. Sorry I can't be of additional help.

I'd recommend contacting AVerMedia about it. It's clearly an issue with the capture card. Others have reported audio trouble under various circumstances as well. I reported my issue to them, but, being that they advise against the use of splitters, they weren't at all motivated to fix the issue.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 12:41 pm 



Joined: 09 Mar 2020
Posts: 59
Steven wrote:
daty2k1 wrote:
Does anyone else thinks the image looks a bit washed out when using any scanline setting other than int. mod.? I know that there was an update to compensate for the lost brightness but I don't really like the look of it.

I know it would be another setting but I'd love if the brightness boost was a separate option. Maybe with the upcoming menu system it could be feasible?

Yes, it looks washed out to me when using anything other than polyphase. The video LPF does something very similar when set to medium, as well, but the rest of the video LPF settings don't seem to change it much.


Yes my bad, I was thinking polyphase scanlines.

Maybe "washed out" is a bit strong and I agree that it is not that bad. But when switching between settings, it is quite noticable and I prefer the colors without it.

However, I know it's maybe not ideal to have yet another setting, at least with the current menu.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:08 pm 


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Joined: 09 Jun 2013
Posts: 68
Location: ME, USA
Have had a chance to play around with the 5x pro for a couple of months now and testing out more systems. I really appreciate the frequent updates! on 1.99 fw now. I know the Neo Geo AES is an ongoing issue, just want to add mine to the list as well, get a lot of sync problems on my HDCRT in 480p mode and framelock doesn't work at all with it.

What I am really here to ask about is if there will be any future support for the RGC Dreamcast scart cable? I am referring to the one with the 480p/576i switch:

https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/SEG ... =dreamcast

The cable works perfectly with the OSSC, and seems to be fine when switched to 480p mode on the 5x, but when switched to interlaced I get these results:

ImageImage

This is in framelock or triple buffer mode. I have since switched back to the OSSC because of this. S-Video works fine, as well as the official Dreamcast scart rgb cable, which I could use if I wanted to swap cables back and forth. Just wanted to put it out there, I wasn't sure if anyone else ran into this problem, and I apologize if this has been discussed already!


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:15 pm 



Joined: 01 Jul 2017
Posts: 247
The RGC (as well as every other 3rd party DC SCART cable, except for the RA one, though I haven't tested it) do not combine the HV sync correctly in 480i. The correct method would have been to simply use the built in CSYNC/Luma/Composite output for 480i instead of some weird diode OR gate attempt to generate a sync from the H and V lines. When hacks like this are used, whether it works with a given display or scaler is down to pure luck. The official DC SCART cable probably uses composite video for sync which would explain why it works fine :P

I'm willing to spend time working around quirks of original hardware/console like the AES, but it doesn't make sense for me to prioritize trying to patch up modern equipment that should've taken the "correct" approach in the first place. As it stands, I've helped RGC design a new circuit that outputs perfectly spec'ed sync signals which hopefully will be released in the near future (I would also expect the upcoming HDRV cables to do it correctly) and this really affects the small number of 480i only titles in the first place, since AFAIK 480p from all the SCART cable options works fine.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:47 pm 


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Joined: 09 Jun 2017
Posts: 256
^^^ I was just going to say, what is there, like 5 Dreamcast titles that won't run in 480p? I'd like the future cables to be designed properly for 480i, but I really wouldn't call it a deal breaker for that console.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:48 pm 



Joined: 01 Jul 2017
Posts: 247
TooBeaucoup wrote:
^^^ I was just going to say, what is there, like 5 Dreamcast titles that won't run in 480p? I'd like the future cables to be designed properly for 480i, but I really wouldn't call it a deal breaker for that console.


It's annoying for sure, but it hasn't stopped me from recommending any of the SCART options today for the vast majority of DC use cases since 480i is so rare. I'm not super familiar with DC, but I can't imagine anyone wanting to use 480i if there's a 480p option that should look much better. Definitely a far lower priority than trying to figure out the deal with AES.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 9:16 pm 


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Joined: 09 Jun 2017
Posts: 256
mikechi2 wrote:
TooBeaucoup wrote:
^^^ I was just going to say, what is there, like 5 Dreamcast titles that won't run in 480p? I'd like the future cables to be designed properly for 480i, but I really wouldn't call it a deal breaker for that console.


It's annoying for sure, but it hasn't stopped me from recommending any of the SCART options today for the vast majority of DC use cases since 480i is so rare. I'm not super familiar with DC, but I can't imagine anyone wanting to use 480i if there's a 480p option that should look much better. Definitely a far lower priority than trying to figure out the deal with AES.


As a big Dreamcast fan, I wouldn't even give it a thought. I haven't had any issues with my RGC cable and I've played a lot of titles. I wanted a Retro-Access one, but their cables have like a 6 months build wait so I was willing to miss out on the few 480i titles and get an RGC. I should just order a DCHDMI board and be done with it, but I was lazy. :)


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:32 pm 


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Joined: 09 Jun 2013
Posts: 68
Location: ME, USA
mikechi2 wrote:
The RGC (as well as every other 3rd party DC SCART cable, except for the RA one, though I haven't tested it) do not combine the HV sync correctly in 480i. The correct method would have been to simply use the built in CSYNC/Luma/Composite output for 480i instead of some weird diode OR gate attempt to generate a sync from the H and V lines. When hacks like this are used, whether it works with a given display or scaler is down to pure luck. The official DC SCART cable probably uses composite video for sync which would explain why it works fine :P

I'm willing to spend time working around quirks of original hardware/console like the AES, but it doesn't make sense for me to prioritize trying to patch up modern equipment that should've taken the "correct" approach in the first place. As it stands, I've helped RGC design a new circuit that outputs perfectly spec'ed sync signals which hopefully will be released in the near future (I would also expect the upcoming HDRV cables to do it correctly) and this really affects the small number of 480i only titles in the first place, since AFAIK 480p from all the SCART cable options works fine.



Thanks for the clarification on this. I didn't realize it was using a hack for their cable. Kind of annoying they'd have made it like this. I also have a vga box with switch so I'll give that a shot when my vga2scart finally comes in. I agree with you and others responses that fixing the AES issues should be a higher priority.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 2:47 am 



Joined: 17 Sep 2012
Posts: 447
dojima wrote:
eightbitminiboss wrote:
Anyone happen to use an Avermedia Live Gamer 4K with the RT5X? I'm trying to figure out the source of audio popping.

I downloaded the audio of your video to check out the waveform, and the popping you're getting is identical to what I was getting when capturing PlayStation 4 with a certain HDMI splitter set to a specific set of EDIDs with the Live Gamer 4K. As in your case, audio was completely fine on my display, but capture was problematic. I was able to fix it by choosing a non-HDR EDID on the splitter or using a different model of splitter. Sorry I can't be of additional help.

I'd recommend contacting AVerMedia about it. It's clearly an issue with the capture card. Others have reported audio trouble under various circumstances as well. I reported my issue to them, but, being that they advise against the use of splitters, they weren't at all motivated to fix the issue.


I'm with you that it's an AverMedia issue. I just picked up an Elgato 4K60 Pro mk.2 from my local Micro Center and I'm going through the paces and I'm not getting any popping, in OBS at least. Their 4K Capture Utility is a bit finicky but I don't plan on using it, so no great loss if I end up keeping this card instead. I personally can't say my switch is a problem considering I've gone through half a dozen of them that just didn't work with the card at all and I wasn't looking to look for another. The thing was I still getting the popping without the switch in the chain anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:48 am 



Joined: 11 May 2021
Posts: 30
Location: Tokyo
daty2k1 wrote:
Steven wrote:
daty2k1 wrote:
Does anyone else thinks the image looks a bit washed out when using any scanline setting other than int. mod.? I know that there was an update to compensate for the lost brightness but I don't really like the look of it.

I know it would be another setting but I'd love if the brightness boost was a separate option. Maybe with the upcoming menu system it could be feasible?

Yes, it looks washed out to me when using anything other than polyphase. The video LPF does something very similar when set to medium, as well, but the rest of the video LPF settings don't seem to change it much.


Yes my bad, I was thinking polyphase scanlines.

Maybe "washed out" is a bit strong and I agree that it is not that bad. But when switching between settings, it is quite noticable and I prefer the colors without it.

However, I know it's maybe not ideal to have yet another setting, at least with the current menu.

Yeah, some of the scanline settings seem to be more washed out than others, as is the medium video low-pass filter. I will say that I kind of miss the aperture grille scanlines from 1.74 that got removed in 1.77, though, as those looked much closer to what my Trinitron looks like than any other fake scanlines I've ever seen, even if the width between the scanlines was far too wide. Something like the behaviour of the aperture grille from 1.74 where the vertical lines are far more pronounced than the horizontal lines, especially over white/etc., where the horizontal lines basically disappear completely, but with the same mask size of the aperture grille from the other firmware versions would be a perfect match for my Trinitron, but I guess this is how it is.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:50 am 


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Joined: 04 Feb 2014
Posts: 468
Someone just pointed out to me that some Atari 2600 games don't play nicely with the 5X. Battlezone for instance is completely unplayable as the screen is a flickery mess. Warlords does something similar but only when the ball hits a brick. Buck Rogers also has issues and there may be others.

It's weird that the 5X works fine for most games but completely fails on a few. I wonder what those games are doing that break the 5X?


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:37 pm 


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Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 343
Tempest_2084 wrote:
Someone just pointed out to me that some Atari 2600 games don't play nicely with the 5X. Battlezone for instance is completely unplayable as the screen is a flickery mess. Warlords does something similar but only when the ball hits a brick. Buck Rogers also has issues and there may be others.

It's weird that the 5X works fine for most games but completely fails on a few. I wonder what those games are doing that break the 5X?


Displaced Gamers did a nice video on it:

The Atari 2600, Analog Video, Scalers, and the Agony of 240p Ambiguity

Short answer: We need ROM hacks and flashcarts to run said hacks. :?


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:24 pm 


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Joined: 04 Feb 2014
Posts: 468
Triple Lei wrote:
Tempest_2084 wrote:
Someone just pointed out to me that some Atari 2600 games don't play nicely with the 5X. Battlezone for instance is completely unplayable as the screen is a flickery mess. Warlords does something similar but only when the ball hits a brick. Buck Rogers also has issues and there may be others.

It's weird that the 5X works fine for most games but completely fails on a few. I wonder what those games are doing that break the 5X?


Displaced Gamers did a nice video on it:

The Atari 2600, Analog Video, Scalers, and the Agony of 240p Ambiguity

Short answer: We need ROM hacks and flashcarts to run said hacks. :?

Wow thanks, that video explained everything, I'll have to get the hacked files then.


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