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 Post subject: Re: Steam Deck
PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:41 pm 


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Very excited

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 Post subject: Re: Steam Deck
PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:43 pm 


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Running a Linux variant concerns me. Will nvidia deliver good drivers? Eventually, the potential ARM purchase should deliver synergy and excellent performance away from x86/x64, but when will that happen? (And, will anybody really sign up to have a single vendor control the entire CPU/GPU of future hardware with no price competition? Ultimately, AMD will also need to deliver better drivers for ARM, as well.) People will see these games on PC and grade performance based on that cruel curve. It needs games designed for the device--without microscopic HUD and text elements. It needs polished controls (likely configured specifically for the machine). Valve has a Google-esque history of abandoning projects and they aren't a software house that can carry hardware singlehandedly (like Nintendo). Can Valve make great first party games and get devs to tune games for the machine? I won't be buying one any time soon.
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 Post subject: Re: Steam Deck
PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:11 pm 


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It's not an ARM device, and it doesn't have any nVidia hardware, so I really don't see how any of that is relevant.


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 Post subject: Re: Steam Deck
PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:25 pm 



Joined: 09 Apr 2012
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Valve has a lot of experience with Linux. I wouldn't be concerned about any aspect relating to that. They've invested quite a bit into Linux, because they fear a Windows monopoly can harm them.

If I ever got one I would definitely install Windows on it though, for better compatibility.


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 Post subject: Re: Steam Deck
PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:11 pm 


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Guspaz wrote:
It's not an ARM device, and it doesn't have any nVidia hardware, so I really don't see how any of that is relevant.


Interesting. So 14nm x64? Sweet battery life. Can't wait. shrug
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 Post subject: Re: Steam Deck
PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 7:25 pm 


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ZellSF wrote:
Valve has a lot of experience with Linux. I wouldn't be concerned about any aspect relating to that. They've invested quite a bit into Linux, because they fear a Windows monopoly can harm them.

If I ever got one I would definitely install Windows on it though, for better compatibility.


Not Valve. Devs. I know Linux is a religion, but I use it in a VM for work. Valve has their work cut out for them. I'll wait. I don't need another emulation machine--and that's what I see. The only portables that have ever succeeded are Nintendo machines and there are good reasons why. Anyhow, I'll see myself out now. Early adopters don't buy stuff like this expecting massive success, anyhow.
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 Post subject: Re: Steam Deck
PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:31 pm 


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orange808 wrote:
So 14nm x64? Sweet battery life. Can't wait. shrug

I don't remember Valve specifying it anywhere, but 14nm is highly unlikely. All existing AMD Zen2 CPU and APU dies are produced on a 7nm process.
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 Post subject: Re: Steam Deck
PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:19 pm 


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orange808 wrote:
Guspaz wrote:
It's not an ARM device, and it doesn't have any nVidia hardware, so I really don't see how any of that is relevant.


Interesting. So 14nm x64? Sweet battery life. Can't wait. shrug


It's an AMD APU, a 4 core 8 thread Zen 2 CPU with an 8 CU RDNA2 GPU, on a 7nm TSMC process, with 16 GB of LPDDR5 (quad-channel, 88 GB/s of bandwidth). AMD calls it Van Gogh, it's basically the same as the chip in the XBS/PS5 at similar clockspeeds, except scaled down in core count and TDP.

The whole device is basically built around Proton, which is Valve's gaming-specific fork of WINE (with a bunch of other stuff and management bundled in) that lets Steam run Windows games on Linux basically just by installing and running them in Steam like any other. Today, ProtonDB lists platinum (runs perfectly/flawlessly with no teaking) and native (linux) combined compatibility of the top thousand games at 42%, so they've a long way to go. They claim that they have made massive improvements to Proton that aren't public yet, and that they plan to achieve 100% compatibility by the October launch, but I'm skeptical, and they're probably defining 100% as gold+platinum+native. I don't consider Gold to be compatible, becaues it means it doesn't work properly out of the box and requires tweaking, which isn't really the console-like experience people will expect.


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 Post subject: Re: Steam Deck
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:50 am 



Joined: 09 Apr 2012
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orange808 wrote:
ZellSF wrote:
Valve has a lot of experience with Linux. I wouldn't be concerned about any aspect relating to that. They've invested quite a bit into Linux, because they fear a Windows monopoly can harm them.

If I ever got one I would definitely install Windows on it though, for better compatibility.


Not Valve. Devs.

Games specifically optimized for this thing probably won't be a thing, or at least not common. It will run existing games through a compatibility layer.
orange808 wrote:
I don't need another emulation machine--and that's what I see.

This device will have access to practically entire Windows library (if you install Windows on it), which is something sub-500$ emulation devices don't offer.

It is like an emulation device in the sense that the games on it are likely games you already have available elsewhere though. At least Valve's marketing implies that existing PC gamers are their target, not people who will get this to get into PC gaming. Which is one of the many reasons I believe this will be a pretty niche device.


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 Post subject: Re: Steam Deck
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 9:42 am 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
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Guspaz wrote:
and the Steam Deck doesn't even have detachable controls, which is kind of the Switch's main schtick.


Except for that ultra popular Switch Lite thing where they eliminated that feature.


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 Post subject: Re: Steam Deck
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:00 pm 


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Fair enough, but that just makes the Switch even more like the handheld consoles that came before it. Sony didn't sue Nintendo when the Switch came out just because it shared the layout with the PlayStation Portable or PlayStation Vita. Sega didn't sue Sony when the PlayStation Portable came out because it shared the layout with the GameGear.


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 Post subject: Re: Steam Deck
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:34 pm 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
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Guspaz wrote:
Fair enough, but that just makes the Switch even more like the handheld consoles that came before it. Sony didn't sue Nintendo when the Switch came out just because it shared the layout with the PlayStation Portable or PlayStation Vita. Sega didn't sue Sony when the PlayStation Portable came out because it shared the layout with the GameGear.


FWIW Gabe seems to share your indignant reluctance to see similarities in the devices. I'm just saying they look the same.
https://gamerant.com/valve-responds-swi ... mparisons/


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 Post subject: Re: Steam Deck
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:45 pm 


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There isn't really any other way to design a handheld with a 7" screen. It's bigger than what's practical for a hand-held clamshell. And, as I said, Nintendo is not the first to use that form factor, and they won't be the last. Nobody complained about the Aya Neo, and it look even more like the Switch than the Steam Deck.

I'm not really sure why you insist that "uses the same form factor as most handhelds historically have" somehow means it's the same as the Switch, which only came out a few years ago.


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 Post subject: Re: Steam Deck
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:57 pm 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
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Guspaz wrote:
There isn't really any other way to design a handheld with a 7" screen. It's bigger than what's practical for a hand-held clamshell. And, as I said, Nintendo is not the first to use that form factor, and they won't be the last. Nobody complained about the Aya Neo, and it look even more like the Switch than the Steam Deck.

I'm not really sure why you insist that "uses the same form factor as most handhelds historically have" somehow means it's the same as the Switch, which only came out a few years ago.


They look to have the same profile from all angles. I've never heard of the company that makes The Aya Neo, but if history's any indicator, it'll be another phony IGG flopper like many before it. You go to IGG when you want to bilk people out of money because you don't have an actual working prototype. But if that company was never sent a C&D, then chances are neither will Valve. Agree there.

Just because they can't come up with their own design doesn't justify being lazy and not doing so. The OSSC and the RT5x do similar things on different degrees and they don't look anything alike. One has a clamshell-like case and the other is the OSSC.

I'm not angry here or trying to pick a fight, more carrying on a discussion. Honestly the first thing I thought when I saw the Steam Deck was "It's a Switch with Steam installed." There's nothing inherently wrong with that (according to me, not Nintendo), it was just glaringly obvious.


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 Post subject: Re: Steam Deck
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:36 pm 



Joined: 09 Apr 2012
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ldeveraux wrote:
They look to have the same profile from all angles. I've never heard of the company that makes The Aya Neo, but ifhistory's any indicator, it'll be another phony IGG flopper like many before it. You go to IGG when you want to bilk people out of money because you don't have an actual working prototype.

The Aya Neo is way past not having a working prototype. It's actually pretty much finished, shipping to consumers in August (reviewers already have them).

Now if Nintendo would get out of the prototyping stage and produce a finished device without constant joy-con issues...


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 Post subject: Re: Steam Deck
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:00 pm 



Joined: 03 Jul 2014
Posts: 74
ldeveraux wrote:
Guspaz wrote:
There isn't really any other way to design a handheld with a 7" screen. It's bigger than what's practical for a hand-held clamshell. And, as I said, Nintendo is not the first to use that form factor, and they won't be the last. Nobody complained about the Aya Neo, and it look even more like the Switch than the Steam Deck.

I'm not really sure why you insist that "uses the same form factor as most handhelds historically have" somehow means it's the same as the Switch, which only came out a few years ago.


They look to have the same profile from all angles. I've never heard of the company that makes The Aya Neo, but if history's any indicator, it'll be another phony IGG flopper like many before it. You go to IGG when you want to bilk people out of money because you don't have an actual working prototype. But if that company was never sent a C&D, then chances are neither will Valve. Agree there.

Just because they can't come up with their own design doesn't justify being lazy and not doing so. The OSSC and the RT5x do similar things on different degrees and they don't look anything alike. One has a clamshell-like case and the other is the OSSC.

I'm not angry here or trying to pick a fight, more carrying on a discussion. Honestly the first thing I thought when I saw the Steam Deck was "It's a Switch with Steam installed." There's nothing inherently wrong with that (according to me, not Nintendo), it was just glaringly obvious.


The Switch is just a Sega Nomad that plays Nintendo games. Handheld console that docks to a TV? Check. The controls aren't removable but it allows you to plug a controller into it when docked. Clearly it's Sega who did all of this first and the rest of the people are copy cats!

All that said the hardware in the Steam Deck is pretty impressive. I have no interest in handhelds really but it'll be cool to see where this goes. Judging by the pre-orders it'll be a decent hit even right out the gate.


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 Post subject: Re: Steam Deck
PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 10:44 pm 


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The Steam Machine Portable is more risible than Google Stadia or the Ouya, but a lot less fun.

Yes, there's gonna be weirdos who love the thing. Whatever. All opinions are held. For the most part, anyone who's willing to throw down 400 buckeroos has already played all these games to death before. All the inconvenience of a PC without the power or the mouse. Neato.

If it was anything more than a corporation attempting, poorly, to expand its near monopoly on PC games to having a monopoly over all games, I'd be less offended by the thing.

I know Valve is just a shop that skims shitloads of money off other people's work. But what if, in some other crazy alternative dimension, they were actually a game company or something. That could develop limited-time exclusives for this console to entice some reason for its existence beyond "Sony and Nintendo make money that doesn't go into our bank account."

Pft. Everyone wants free capital and all their enemies dead, but aren't willing to put in the work to earn it. That Valve got the PC game shop kingdom instead of someone else doing it before them was such a fluke. Normally, you're supposed to have to invade an actual place with an actual military to secure passive income to this degree.


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 Post subject: Re: Steam Deck
PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 2:26 am 



Joined: 15 Nov 2018
Posts: 39
You all right, man? That's a very unique take.


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 Post subject: Re: Steam Deck
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 4:26 pm 


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:roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Steam Deck
PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 2:23 am 


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I'm excited to give it a go!

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 Post subject: Re: Steam Deck
PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:08 am 



Joined: 01 Aug 2009
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Location: The Netherlands
They posted a video about the internals and SSD replacement a few days ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dxnr2FAADAs


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 Post subject: Re: Steam Deck
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:35 pm 



Joined: 25 Jul 2008
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Location: Leeds
It's an interesting curiousity for sure... More curious how the quality control comes out tbh. If it's at least well made then it's a viable, even if it niche/expensive... I think it has a lot of potential to be a fun device and the library potentials are very cool.

...But I think it'll be a classic earlier adopter scenario - if it takes off you'll be wanting the 2nd/3rd iteration later down the line. And to be honest I think valve/steam is fine with that - even if the platform becomes a third party jungle, it's likely going to equal more steam customers/purchases one way or another.
From the fomo/collector point of view if this could be your jam you might want to jump on it in case it never comes back around again...

The only thing I think Nintendo may care about is if they're able to release that dpad (I thought nintendo had the rights on a solid 4 cross dpad; maybe the slight bend in the design gets them clear?)
It's going to be released so late and in such low numbers it won't hurt nintendo even if they do care.

Personally it's an easier pass... but I'm just not much for handhelds...


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 Post subject: Re: Steam Deck
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:15 pm 


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Nintendo's patent on the d-pad expired 16 years ago: https://patents.google.com/patent/US4687200


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 Post subject: Re: Steam Deck
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:01 pm 


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Ya the Xbone controllers had a + dpad.


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 Post subject: Re: Steam Deck
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:17 am 


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orange808 wrote:
Guspaz wrote:
It's not an ARM device, and it doesn't have any nVidia hardware, so I really don't see how any of that is relevant.


Interesting. So 14nm x64? Sweet battery life. Can't wait. shrug


I see others have chimed in, but just wanted to add that the 7nm Zen2/RDNA2 APU has the highest perf/watt of any non-Apple CPU/GPU released to date. Its going to be very power efficient.


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 Post subject: Re: Steam Deck
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:35 pm 



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
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A mere $5.00 deposit paid secures a reservation for any of the 3 variant Steam Decks on the 2nd batch of preorders to ship within the estimated timeframe of February of 2022 (or thereabouts) on the Steam site.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~


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 Post subject: Re: Steam Deck
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:55 am 



Joined: 01 Aug 2009
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What region are you talking about? They are currently at after q2 for new euro/us reservations. Even later before they changed the message to "after q2"


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 Post subject: Re: Steam Deck
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:12 pm 



Joined: 01 Nov 2021
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I'm really tempted by this, though $400 before sales tax and with balls basic storage options is pretty steep.

Would go great with my Pi Boy and regular Switch, though.

alastair jack wrote:
I'm excited to give it a go!

Image


I haven't fully read up on this device. How exactly does one play it vertically / Tate mode?


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