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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:54 pm 


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nes.og wrote:
I was referring to the Extron DSC 310. Unless there are some extra steps involved then picture doesn’t look as good even if the scaling may be 1:1.


Is your picture windowboxed (black bars on all sides)? That's how you know you're doing 1:1 for 480p at 540p


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:36 pm 



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BazookaBen wrote:
nes.og wrote:
I was referring to the Extron DSC 310. Unless there are some extra steps involved then picture doesn’t look as good even if the scaling may be 1:1.


Is your picture windowboxed (black bars on all sides)? That's how you know you're doing 1:1 for 480p at 540p


I’m testing on a widescreen Sony HD CRT with widescreen 480P Wii games so no black bars. I’m using a HDMI to component adapter after the DSC 301 since the Sony won’t accept 540p over HDMI. Just realized I never included this info in my initial post line I thought I had so my apologies.

I took the 1080i EDID from the TV then modified to 540P. So if I use a 480P 3:4 source the Extron shouldn’t try to scale to widescreen and just insert it automatically? If no then how do I achieve this? Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:41 pm 


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If you're seeing a fullscreen picture at 540p, it's not 1:1. Because you're stretching 480 lines to 540 lines.

If it was 1:1, you'd have black bars on all sides, with only the 480 lines in the middle showing picture? Does that make sense?


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:50 pm 



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BazookaBen wrote:
If you're seeing a fullscreen picture at 540p, it's not 1:1. Because you're stretching 480 lines to 540 lines.

If it was 1:1, you'd have black bars on all sides, with only the 480 lines in the middle showing picture? Does that make sense?


Yes but I’m feeding it 480P widescreen from the Wii to begin with opposed to 4:3 so wouldn’t there be no black bars since it’s the same widescreen aspect ratio? I believe the Wii uses anamorphic widescreen to achieve 480p in widescreen but don’t believe this makes a difference? If I should still have black bars then the u it doesn’t do 1:1 automatically when going from 480P to 540P and I don’t what I can change. Thanks for your time. I appreciate you guys sharing your knowledge!


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:01 pm 


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No clue, I have no experience with Extron 301, you'll have to play with it and figure out the best setting, since 540p mode will prevent you from using all the zoom modes in the TV.

But if you're getting a Retrotink 5x, all this stuff is pretty much moot, you'll have an easier time setting that up.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:10 pm 



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Just fed it 480P 4:3 and I get black bars above and below but it stretches widescreen left to right Makes sense to me that is just scales it that way being a scaler. Inserting 480P into a 540P window seems like a special case use. Would be interesting if there is some trick to make it happen with the unit and it may help others but doesn’t seem worth my time since I’ll be getting the RT5X like you said.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:13 pm 


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That's does bring up a good point though.

The Retrotink probably needs two 540p profiles: one for 16:9 games, and one for 4:3 games.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:11 pm 


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In 540p mode on the 5x, you can set horizontal sampling to 16:9 or 4:3, don't know if that's the same thing as what you're saying


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:44 pm 



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Josh128 wrote:
nes.og wrote:
I did a quick test of using a 540p resolution for scaling with the DSC-310 which requires Extron software. The picture did no look as good as the TVs native handling of 480p so don’t believe it would be worth using the DCS-301 to achieve less lag.

What games do you guys play were the lag decease really shows?

I can try downscaling with my Corio2 next and on my RT5X once I receive it. Can anyone comment on the scaling picture on the those devices opposed the TVs scaling?



As Fudoh has said, the new 540p mode in the 5X integer scales 240p 2x or 480p in a 540p window. Therefore the picture / scaling is perfect after you stretch the raster in the service menu.


Any way to save a preset for the service mode to switch back to normal when not using 540P?

What about downscaling 1080P to 540P for systems like the Nintendo Switch which doesn’t do 1080i? Maybe better to scale 1080P down 1080i or run at 480P in 540P?


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:53 pm 


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nes.og wrote:
What about downscaling 1080P to 540P for systems like the Nintendo Switch which doesn’t do 1080i? Maybe better to scale 1080P down 1080i or run at 480P in 540P?


1080p to 1080i would be the way to go, but I don't know if the Retrotink can do that.

The other problem is that once you zoom your TV to do fullscreen 240p/480i/480p with the Retrotink, actual 1080i and 540p input signals will be very overscanned, mostly unplayable I would imagine. So you'll have to hop back and forth in the service menu to play that stuff, or maybe you'll get lucky and the resizing function on the PS4's menu will allow you to shrink the visible area down enough.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:12 am 



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BazookaBen wrote:
nes.og wrote:
What about downscaling 1080P to 540P for systems like the Nintendo Switch which doesn’t do 1080i? Maybe better to scale 1080P down 1080i or run at 480P in 540P?


1080p to 1080i would be the way to go, but I don't know if the Retrotink can do that.

The other problem is that once you zoom your TV to do fullscreen 240p/480i/480p with the Retrotink, actual 1080i and 540p input signals will be very overscanned, mostly unplayable I would imagine. So you'll have to hop back and forth in the service menu to play that stuff, or maybe you'll get lucky and the resizing function on the PS4's menu will allow you to shrink the visible area down enough.


Too bad no way to save some type of presets in the service menus to switch between.

I can try the 1080p to 1080i scaling with the Extron and my Corio2 unit. I could also try 480P to 540P with the Corio2 but probably not worth the effort since I’ll have thr RT5x.

I may play with CRU on the PC at some point. What was the process of getting 480P inside thr 540P window opposed to it upscaling everything?


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:17 am 


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nes.og wrote:
I may play with CRU on the PC at some point. What was the process of getting 480P inside thr 540P window opposed to it upscaling everything?


You mean with CRU in particular? All you need to do is create a 540p mode with CRT timings, making sure it's around 33.75kHz horizontal.

Then copy and paste into a new slot. Now click on the tick box next to "total" and change the resolution to 640x480. It should keep the total pixel count equal, which means it just added blank lines to the front and back porch, and the frequency is still 33.75kHz.

You could also get away with only doing this with the vertical axis, and letting the horizontal touch the sides. Then just stretch vertically.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:34 am 



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nes.og wrote:
BazookaBen wrote:
nes.og wrote:
What about downscaling 1080P to 540P for systems like the Nintendo Switch which doesn’t do 1080i? Maybe better to scale 1080P down 1080i or run at 480P in 540P?


1080p to 1080i would be the way to go, but I don't know if the Retrotink can do that.

The other problem is that once you zoom your TV to do fullscreen 240p/480i/480p with the Retrotink, actual 1080i and 540p input signals will be very overscanned, mostly unplayable I would imagine. So you'll have to hop back and forth in the service menu to play that stuff, or maybe you'll get lucky and the resizing function on the PS4's menu will allow you to shrink the visible area down enough.


Too bad no way to save some type of presets in the service menus to switch between.

I can try the 1080p to 1080i scaling with the Extron and my Corio2 unit. I could also try 480P to 540P with the Corio2 but probably not worth the effort since I’ll have thr RT5x.

I may play with CRU on the PC at some point. What was the process of getting 480P inside thr 540P window opposed to it upscaling everything?


TBH I still don’t think you grok why people want 480p inside a 540p frame. People want this because they want to display 240p content with scanlines on Sony HDCRTs with minimal lag or to display native 480p content with minimal lag.

If you want to display 1080p content on a Sony HDCRT you just need to buy a suitable video processor from the likes of DVDO or Gefen then make the right service menu change.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:52 am 



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strayan wrote:
TBH I still don’t think you grok why people want 480p inside a 540p frame. People want this because they want to display 240p content with scanlines on Sony HDCRTs with minimal lag or to display native 480p content with minimal lag.

If you want to display 1080p content on a Sony HDCRT you just need to buy a suitable video processor from the likes of DVDO or Gefen then make the right service menu change.


I already knew this but thanks for your input.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:54 am 



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BazookaBen wrote:
You mean with CRU in particular? All you need to do is create a 540p mode with CRT timings, making sure it's around 33.75kHz horizontal.

Then copy and paste into a new slot. Now click on the tick box next to "total" and change the resolution to 640x480. It should keep the total pixel count equal, which means it just added blank lines to the front and back porch, and the frequency is still 33.75kHz.

You could also get away with only doing this with the vertical axis, and letting the horizontal touch the sides. Then just stretch vertically.


Thanks for the info! Definitely not so simple with the Extron EDID tool.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 9:24 pm 


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incrediblehark wrote:
...


Hey, moving from the RT5X thread for your issue with your XBR. Vol 2s links have some interesting info. Like this regarding 540p being handled as 1080i if you dont set HDPT=0 (or if your set doesnt have the circuitry needed to actually bypass??).

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/comput ... ts.270471/

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/signal ... vs.293741/

vol.2 wrote:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/64-direc ... hdtvs.html

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/64-direc ... -crts.html


Quote:
I'll get to your questions, montreal, but I just noticed something extremely weird today re 540p computer DVI input on my 34xbr800.


When HDPT=1, 540p scans interlaced, as though it were 1080i. No surprise there. However, when HDPT=0, 540p scans progressively! (with no jitter/flicker) on my TV, AND the signal type in the service menu is still registering as 1080i. Furthermore, DPSW does not disable the "new" progressive 540p.


So with the HDPT "bypass", these TV's seem to be smarter than I've given them credit for. I thought it would see all 33.75kHz signals the same and simply display them as interlaced 1080i. This is the way it seems to work when HDPT=1. But with HDPT=0, 540p scans progressively. So maybe the TV can sense something other than the horizontal scanrate to distinguish between an interlaced and progressive signal.... at least on a "bypassed" 33.75kHz signal.


To review:

HDPT=1

33.75kHz 1080i = interlaced scan

33.75kHz 540p = interlaced scan

And both 540p and 1080i can be disabled with DPSW=1

HDPT=0

33.75kHz 1080i = interlaced scan

33.75kHz 540p = progressive scan

And neither 540p nor 1080i can be disabled with DPSW=1

I also notice the same changes in PQ when switching HDPT from 1 to 0 with 540p as I did with 1080i. So I'm pretty sure that the HDPT "bypass" works for 540p as well, and it somehow preserves it's progressive scanning as well.
Regrettably, a 480p computer input seems to behave exactly the same as 480p from the DVD players. I.e. the HDPT "bypass" does not seem to work on it so far.


Also, the quote below may help with your particular set, though I definitely didnt need to be on the RF input on mine.

Quote:
I agree that HDPT must be changed only when the selected input is RF (Video 1?).-- But note that you may also need to switch to the actual input you are feeding and/or do it there as well.


He didnt specify if he was using analog or digital inputs, but from other posts on those AVSforum links, it appears that using the analog ports is always more compatible and bypasses (at least some of) the circuitry needed for the digital to analog conversion that is necessary to drive the CRT. But notice the bolded parts. Either your HDPT=0 setting is not working, or something wonky is happening. Have you tried changing it while simutaneously displaying the 540p w/ scanlines signal? Do you see no changes?


Last edited by Josh128 on Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 11:47 pm 



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Josh128 wrote:
Cool, looking forward to it! So your set doesnt have a digital in or component in, just straight RGBS via RCA? You have a converter to go from HDMI to that?


It is RGBHV not RGBs. My DAC can output RGBHV or RGBS though: https://www.extron.com/product/dvirgb100 (I also use this DAC to send RGBs to my GBSC).

It has component and RGBHV inputs. No digital inputs at all. You can see what it looks like here https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=345&v=g ... e=youtu.be


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 11:33 am 


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Josh128 wrote:
incrediblehark wrote:
...


Hey, moving from the RT5X thread for your issue with your XBR. Vol 2s links have some interesting info. Like this regarding 540p being handled as 1080i if you dont set HDPT=0 (or if your set doesnt have the circuitry needed to actually bypass??).

vol.2 wrote:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/64-direct-view-single-tube-crt-displays/293741-signal-processing-sony-hdtvs.html

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/64-direc ... -crts.html


Quote:
I'll get to your questions, montreal, but I just noticed something extremely weird today re 540p computer DVI input on my 34xbr800.

I also notice the same changes in PQ when switching HDPT from 1 to 0 with 540p as I did with 1080i. So I'm pretty sure that the HDPT "bypass" works for 540p as well, and it somehow preserves it's progressive scanning as well.
Regrettably, a 480p computer input seems to behave exactly the same as 480p from the DVD players. I.e. the HDPT "bypass" does not seem to work on it so far.


Also, the quote below may help with your particular set, though I definitely didnt need to be on the RF input on mine.

Quote:
I agree that HDPT must be changed only when the selected input is RF (Video 1?).-- But note that you may also need to switch to the actual input you are feeding and/or do it there as well.


He didnt specify if he was using analog or digital inputs, but from other posts on those AVSforum links, it appears that using the analog ports is always more compatible and bypasses (at least some of) the circuitry needed for the digital to analog conversion that is necessary to drive the CRT. But notice the bolded parts. Either your HDPT=0 setting is not working, or something wonky is happening. Have you tried changing it while simutaneously displaying the 540p w/ scanlines signal? Do you see no changes?


Thanks Vol.2 for the links and Josh128 for the help! I had a chance to read through a lot of those pages and follow some links, and I have come to the conclusion that indeed my 40XBR800 does not have the bypass circuit installed, unfortunately. So no 540p for me :( It looks as though, according to the AVS forums that some models of the 40xbr800 that were manufactured between 10/2002 and 12/2002 did not have the proper circuit installed on the B board. Of course, mine had to have been made in November 2002... The only way the HDPT switch will actually work for me is if I replace the B board or install the necessary components on mine. An IC is mentioned but not sure what else would be needed as I haven't dug into service manuals etc. The link to the fix is mentioned on AVS Forums below:

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/vertic ... st-2108018

So I'll have to keep my fingers crossed that a 1080i mode will become available sometime for the retrotink 5x pro. 480p does work really well and there was a lot of speculation that these models could handle it natively but I'm skeptical. Nothing was confirmed either way in the posts I read from 2003. Even still it wouldn't matter because that signal also gets processed so I wouldn't benefit from the lower lag without being able to bypass.

Josh, regarding the lightgun testing that was discussed in the 5x thread: I was very close to having success with the Sega Saturn Stunner. Because I can't do anything more in this area if you're interested I can send you a lightgun to test out on your set so we can have some definitive testing. I read that you're getting a Guncon as well but I'd be very surprised if it worked.


- Last notes to this post -

The Portta HDMI to Component converter worked exactly like my Aliexpress one, just build quality seemed a little better. For anyone looking to save $8 and willing to wait 3 months ;)

In the Service menu, I found that in ID 7 if you change the value to an odd number it "unlocks" some features of the regular menu. For example I set mine from 24 to 25. By this I mean it appears to make the 4:3 set think that it is widescreen, and there are more picture adjustments and zoom/fill/normal/wide settings available. It also added vertical shift to go with tilt in the menu. I haven't noticed any downside to this as I still get a full screen in 480p with uniformity but also get more options for adjusting the picture.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 12:39 pm 


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incrediblehark wrote:
So I'll have to keep my fingers crossed that a 1080i mode will become available sometime for the retrotink 5x pro. 480p does work really well and there was a lot of speculation that these models could handle it natively but I'm skeptical. Nothing was confirmed either way in the posts I read from 2003. Even still it wouldn't matter because that signal also gets processed so I wouldn't benefit from the lower lag without being able to bypass.

Josh, regarding the lightgun testing that was discussed in the 5x thread: I was very close to having success with the Sega Saturn Stunner. Because I can't do anything more in this area if you're interested I can send you a lightgun to test out on your set so we can have some definitive testing. I read that you're getting a Guncon as well but I'd be very surprised if it worked.


Man, sorry to hear that. If you dont have the proper bypass hardware in your set, you are right, 1080i wont help, in fact, it has more lag than 720p or 480p, which give you the best non-HDPT input lag. Looking at my results below, you get 14.7ms with either while 1080i gives you 31ms. That being the case, from my previous testing, the GBS-C maybe the best scaler for you. Its 480p is great, switches from 480i to 240p seamlessly, and its "bob" + scanlines (tunable) gives perfect 480i look on HD CRTs. True, the 5X can give you the same, but the GBS-C is cheaper, doesnt require a component converter, and is even faster than the 5X in framelocked mode. Its basically somewhere around 0.65ms of added lag. In the picture at the bottom, Im chaining the TS through a VGA converter to the GBS-C outputting 480p to the TV, and as you can see, the results are 14.7ms (zero added lag) compared to straight TS in at 480p HDMI to the set.

As far as the light gun, the fact that you had any success at all with a non - working HDPT mode is pretty impressive. Thanks for the offer but I did order a GunCon 2 for testing. I plan to test it with the 5X on the HD CRT vs the GBS-C on my VGA monitor (which has even lower lag, I believe). So we'll see. TBH I expect it to work, but maybe with reduced accuracy. We'll see.

Image

GBS-C outputting 480p results:

Image


Last edited by Josh128 on Sun Aug 08, 2021 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 5:05 pm 


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Incredibleshark, you should really look into building that bypass circuit. It's probably easier than you think.

When I did an s-video mod to an old Sony, all I had to do was populate the appropriate spots on the board for missing resistors and caps, as well as one IC that was available for $0.50 on DigiKey. Then I changed one setting in the service menu.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's a similar process on your set to restore HDPT.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 8:47 pm 


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BazookaBen:
I am thinking about it, you're probably right that it wouldn't be too difficult to do, and I don't think I'll find another fully populated B board out in the wild anytime soon. The thread I linked mentioned a vertical bar sweeping effect on these sets when in 1080i, I haven't noticed it yet but if so would be another driving factor for me to do this mod. The main thing that holds me back is the size of this tv... If I can remove the back panel without lifting the set I may make an attempt. Just my luck I'd end up with one of these models without hdpt bypass.

Josh128:
Thanks for the advice, I already have the 5x so I'll just stick with that for now. The lag isn't really noticeable for me in 480p and the picture looks great with the 5x. The things that have made me hesitant to get a GBS-C are the screen tearing and interference I've read about. I also like that the 5x has S-Video and Composite built in.
Looking forward to seeing your Guncon results, if its a success then I can assume the Saturn lightgun will work as its not as precise as the guncon.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 12:40 am 


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incrediblehark wrote:
BazookaBen:
I am thinking about it, you're probably right that it wouldn't be too difficult to do, and I don't think I'll find another fully populated B board out in the wild anytime soon. The thread I linked mentioned a vertical bar sweeping effect on these sets when in 1080i, I haven't noticed it yet but if so would be another driving factor for me to do this mod. The main thing that holds me back is the size of this tv... If I can remove the back panel without lifting the set I may make an attempt. Just my luck I'd end up with one of these models without hdpt bypass.

Josh128:
Thanks for the advice, I already have the 5x so I'll just stick with that for now. The lag isn't really noticeable for me in 480p and the picture looks great with the 5x. The things that have made me hesitant to get a GBS-C are the screen tearing and interference I've read about. I also like that the 5x has S-Video and Composite built in.
Looking forward to seeing your Guncon results, if its a success then I can assume the Saturn lightgun will work as its not as precise as the guncon.


You should be able to remove the back without lifting the set. I removed the back off of my 36" SD Wega earlier this year and it comes off without lifting the set. Should be the same for all Sony's, at least. I agree with Ben, if you can obtain the parts and have a guide that you can follow, it would be a fun project. You have a pretty unique MONSTER in your possession. Taking off the back would also allow for you to check the focus on the flyback as well as adjusting the H-stat pot and adding convergence strips and/or magnets in strategic places to tweak the picture. I have some ultraperm permalloy and some thin plastic that I made strips with earlier this year, and they worked quite well. If you want to have a few on hand while you have the back off, I can mail you a few, I'd just have to build some to send you. I also have a few 1 cm x 1.5mm button neodymium mags I could send too. You can use those to tweak purity by taping in strategic spots around the back of the tube. Just let me know if you are up for it. 8)

About the GBS-C, some people apparently have issues, but mine has been beautiful and perfect thus far. I've never had a single screen tear, jitter, or anything like that and Ive used it on both a VGA monitor and my 36" HD Trin. Fun project that cost me about $31 or so in total, and my best friend printed the kick ass case for free. I'm a big fan of the GBS-C.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:19 am 


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@josh128

Since you have the 5x and I don’t. I was hoping someone could run a test of House of the Dead 2 on Dreamcast to see if 480 lightgun games are supported.

On My Megaview. 15khz light gun games work great but 480p do not work for some reason.
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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:37 am 



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Since requested, I am attaching the DA-4 chassis block diagram (30/34XBR955/960) that shows the HDPT path.

Image

You can follow the signal path from top [Video7 - HDMI]. It taps to bypass the ATSC/HDMI switch and goes to IC2006. The YPbCr output goes directly to IC3413, which passes to the RGB amps. Similarly, the sync comes out of IC2006 and goes into a mux IC2010. The output of that mux then bypasses the ADC block passing sync to the digital IC and goes directly to IC3413. This is the path selected when HDPT = 1.

Component passes through the V5/V6 switch before going to IN2 on IC2006, then should be able to take the same path if it's 33KHz.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:07 am 


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@Hoagtech: I dont have a DC lightgun but just got a GunCon 2 in today. Will test soon.

@anexanhume: Looking at the diagram there, I dont see any reason why component input would be any more latent than HDMI. With HDPT enabled, the DRC processor is bypassed and both HDMI and component hit the CXA2171. Without HDPT enabled, both signals hit the DRC circuit and thats where the lag comes in. How much additional lag have you measured and where do you think its coming from?


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:19 am 



Joined: 06 Mar 2021
Posts: 38
Josh128 wrote:
@Hoagtech: I dont have a DC lightgun but just got a GunCon 2 in today. Will test soon.

@anexanhume: Looking at the diagram there, I dont see any reason why component input would be any more latent than HDMI. With HDPT enabled, the DRC processor is bypassed and both HDMI and component hit the CXA2171. Without HDPT enabled, both signals hit the DRC circuit and thats where the lag comes in. How much additional lag have you measured and where do you think its coming from?


I have not personally tested (don’t have a time sleuth yet). Going off of others’ results.

Example: https://www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/comm ... ame=iossmf


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 6:24 pm 


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Posts: 201
Location: Salem OR
anexanhume wrote:
Since requested, I am attaching the DA-4 chassis block diagram (30/34XBR955/960) that shows the HDPT path.

Image

You can follow the signal path from top [Video7 - HDMI]. It taps to bypass the ATSC/HDMI switch and goes to IC2006. The YPbCr output goes directly to IC3413, which passes to the RGB amps. Similarly, the sync comes out of IC2006 and goes into a mux IC2010. The output of that mux then bypasses the ADC block passing sync to the digital IC and goes directly to IC3413. This is the path selected when HDPT = 1.

Component passes through the V5/V6 switch before going to IN2 on IC2006, then should be able to take the same path if it's 33KHz.

Impressive finds. So for someone who's using HDPT and DPSW(alternate 1080i mode) on his 960s, what results are you getting from the Retrotink 5X new 540p mode?
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Displays I currently own:
LG 77C1(OLED),TCL 75R635(MiniLED),Apple Studio Monitor 21(PCCRT),JVC I'Art 36(SDCRT),SONY 34XBR960x3(HDCRT),CH-15DXA(TVL800)
SONY 32XBR250,Samsung UBJ590(LED),Panasonic P50VT20(Plasma),JVC RS400(LCoS),Optoma27HDR(DLP)


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 6:39 pm 



Joined: 06 Mar 2021
Posts: 38
Bahn Yuki wrote:
anexanhume wrote:
Since requested, I am attaching the DA-4 chassis block diagram (30/34XBR955/960) that shows the HDPT path.

You can follow the signal path from top [Video7 - HDMI]. It taps to bypass the ATSC/HDMI switch and goes to IC2006. The YPbCr output goes directly to IC3413, which passes to the RGB amps. Similarly, the sync comes out of IC2006 and goes into a mux IC2010. The output of that mux then bypasses the ADC block passing sync to the digital IC and goes directly to IC3413. This is the path selected when HDPT = 1.

Component passes through the V5/V6 switch before going to IN2 on IC2006, then should be able to take the same path if it's 33KHz.

Impressive finds. So for someone who's using HDPT and DPSW(alternate 1080i mode) on his 960s, what results are you getting from the Retrotink 5X new 540p mode?


I don’t have a 5x yet. I only became interested once Mike added 540p.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 11:18 pm 



Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 1
So I checked out the 540p from the tink5x / component converter on my 30-HS420, and I was super duper impressed. I had never even considered playing 240p on this tv before that, but it looked and played awesome.


This got me thinking about setting up a custom 540p resolution on my Mister. After a lot of digging, I finally got a modeline that held sync. It is a 1920x540 resolution. What's strange is that the aspect ratio of the menu core is perfect, but console cores are basically 1/2 of their proper width ... I worked around this by making a 8:3 custom aspect ratio to stretch it back out. If anyone has any experience with 540p from the Mister's HDMI, definitely let me know. Hopefully 540p gains some popularity in the future and we wont have to do this technical stuff to have native resolution on these screens haha.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 6:34 am 



Joined: 04 Apr 2020
Posts: 80
I discovered that the Extron 301 HD zooms 540P by default but you can disable. I like that I can do resizing with it without going into the service menu which is also a benefit for 480P anamorphic widescreen games on a widescreen HDCRT since default to “full view”.

I’ll compare lag to the RT5X at 540P but was wondering if the lack of 540P on the Time Slueth will skew the results? I know that 540P is 1080i but the same is true of 240P and 480i yet the Tome Slueth has a 240P option.


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