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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 9:11 pm 


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RocketBelt wrote:

Err... N64 is a very limited use case?


Odolwa wrote:
How come no s-video support?


No, that's not quite it. There is a GPIO header intended for an AV-input board, but it's not currently in the base design. It's for a future update or possibly someone in the community will just build it. Read the first post of this thread.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 9:14 pm 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
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RocketBelt wrote:
ldeveraux wrote:
Odolwa wrote:
How come no s-video support?


I'd assume because it's a very limited use case and the RetroTink2x and Koryuu work well enough.


Err... N64 is a very limited use case?


Why would you use s-video from an n64 when so many better RGB options are available?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 9:47 pm 


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I was thinking more along the lines of S video VCRs/VHS players. I agree, I wouldn’t use an N64 for S video anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 10:50 pm 


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ldeveraux wrote:
Why would you use s-video from an n64 when so many better RGB options are available?


Name one better RGB option for the N64 that doesn't require a soldering iron. S-video works out of the box.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 11:09 pm 


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TBH, S-Video on N64 is 97% the quality of RGB. Same sharpness, just a bit less popping colors. Honestly RGB isnt worth the trouble, IMO, but I installed an amp anyway. I used the little cheap sub $10 amp. My buddy used a ~$100 N64 RGB and when we compared on my 27" Trinitron Wega, there was no difference. The "sharp" setting on the N64 RGB made so little difference we had to study scenes to see any difference ON vs OFF, almost unnoticeable.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 11:29 pm 



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S-video is more than the N64, or more niche systems that do S-video at most and for which there are no RGB mods, like the PC-FX. There's a surprising number of people who have all S-video setups with commercial TV sets, and probably more than a few would like to transition into scaling and flat panels under the right conditions.

That said, it's been clear since day 1 that composite and S-video support built-in is not in the vision of the OSSC Pro, and that's fine. I'm sure there will be add-ons for it, and there's also the 5X and the upcoming Morph to take care of that well enough.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 11:55 pm 


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Josh128 wrote:
TBH, S-Video on N64 is 97% the quality of RGB. Same sharpness, just a bit less popping colors. Honestly RGB isnt worth the trouble, IMO, but I installed an amp anyway. I used the little cheap sub $10 amp. My buddy used a ~$100 N64 RGB and when we compared on my 27" Trinitron Wega, there was no difference. The "sharp" setting on the N64 RGB made so little difference we had to study scenes to see any difference ON vs OFF, almost unnoticeable.


The trick is that the cheap RGB amp for the N64 only works on a small subset of them, AFAIK.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 3:30 am 


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Josh128 wrote:
TBH, S-Video on N64 is 97% the quality of RGB. Same sharpness, just a bit less popping colors. Honestly RGB isnt worth the trouble, IMO, but I installed an amp anyway. I used the little cheap sub $10 amp. My buddy used a ~$100 N64 RGB and when we compared on my 27" Trinitron Wega, there was no difference. The "sharp" setting on the N64 RGB made so little difference we had to study scenes to see any difference ON vs OFF, almost unnoticeable.

It was 100% worth the effort of installing the basic RGB drive amp. The color fidelity is much better. You're right though I wouldn't spend the money if I had one of the systems that didn't support the cheap mod


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 4:45 am 



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I dunno man, to my eyes there's definitely a noticeable difference between the de-blur on and off when using the advanced RGB mods, on both a PVM and on an HDTV via the OSSC.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 1:06 pm 



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Guspaz wrote:
ldeveraux wrote:
Why would you use s-video from an n64 when so many better RGB options are available?


Name one better RGB option for the N64 that doesn't require a soldering iron. S-video works out of the box.


Sure, but crap in = crap out. Why spend all that money on an OSSC Pro if you're going to send a trash signal to it?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 1:33 pm 



Joined: 30 Mar 2019
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ldeveraux wrote:
Guspaz wrote:
ldeveraux wrote:
Why would you use s-video from an n64 when so many better RGB options are available?


Name one better RGB option for the N64 that doesn't require a soldering iron. S-video works out of the box.


Sure, but crap in = crap out. Why spend all that money on an OSSC Pro if you're going to send a trash signal to it?


It might sound odd, but for those of us who are not DIY-handy, buying an expensive piece of equipment online can be easier than finding and arranging things with a reliable modder, who may not be locally available.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 2:34 pm 


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ldeveraux wrote:
Guspaz wrote:
ldeveraux wrote:
Why would you use s-video from an n64 when so many better RGB options are available?


Name one better RGB option for the N64 that doesn't require a soldering iron. S-video works out of the box.


Sure, but crap in = crap out. Why spend all that money on an OSSC Pro if you're going to send a trash signal to it?


You exaggerate the difference RGB makes over S-Video on the N64. It's subtle, and probably isn't worth the $200 it costs to get one installed, especially considering that pixel-accurate sample settings can provide the deblur functionality using S-Video.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 2:54 pm 



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Guspaz wrote:
You exaggerate the difference RGB makes over S-Video on the N64. It's subtle, and probably isn't worth the $200 it costs to get one installed, especially considering that pixel-accurate sample settings can provide the deblur functionality using S-Video.


I've been hearing about this. It would be good to see comparisons between S-video or RGB without deblur + optimal sampling vs. RGB w/ deblur + generic sampling vs. RGB w/deblur + optimal sampling


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 4:50 pm 



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Guspaz wrote:
ldeveraux wrote:
Sure, but crap in = crap out. Why spend all that money on an OSSC Pro if you're going to send a trash signal to it?


You exaggerate the difference RGB makes over S-Video on the N64. It's subtle, and probably isn't worth the $200 it costs to get one installed, especially considering that pixel-accurate sample settings can provide the deblur functionality using S-Video.


Yeah I was thinking more globally across all consoles, but you're absolutely right in the case of the N64. I almost regret doing it because there is no gain in quality but I can still connect it to my SCART switch.

But $200 for the N64RGB mod? etim sells them for $42 and you can get a SCART cable for max $50. Unless you're counting the cost of an installation service, which everybody should be doing themselves! :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 5:13 pm 


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Tim's price, with the adapter and shipping, is closer to $65 USD, plus let's say a hundred bucks for an installation service (since the vast majority of people won't be able to install it themselves), plus the cost of shipping the console twice. Around two hundred bucks seems about right.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2021 12:42 am 



Joined: 18 Sep 2014
Posts: 170
vol.2 wrote:

No, that's not quite it. There is a GPIO header intended for an AV-input board, but it's not currently in the base design. It's for a future update or possibly someone in the community will just build it. Read the first post of this thread.


You're right. Still I think the Pro will have broader appeal if/when it gets bundled with the proposed AV input board.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2021 1:44 am 


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RocketBelt wrote:
You're right. Still I think the Pro will have broader appeal if/when it gets bundled with the proposed AV input board.


Yes, I agree. I don't think this project is going for that. It's way too expensive for most people to buy just so they can try upscaling composite and s-video. This thing is for people trying to squeeze above the 98% out of their consoles as it heads to a big fancy flat screen.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 8:27 am 


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I don't see why not just include the S-Video capability from the beginning? People are going to want it anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 12:05 pm 



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Posts: 368
So how are things coming on vga/hdmi sourced materials?

The base ossc is still capable of doing a great job for games on newer consoles via adapter, but I take issue on the fact that you can do the scanlines you want on 1080i sources, yet 1080p doesn't work. There's room to address this issue at some point, but for the pro I hope to see it working correctly out the gate.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 8:05 pm 



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Posts: 226
In my experience, at least with the SNES Jr, RGB is a huge leap from S-Video. On my CRT TV S-Video doesnt look that much better than composite, sure, you get no dot-crawling and sharpness is superior. But color bleed is still there and the colors just dont look as good as RGB.

So, I can understand why someone would go the extra mile and invest on enabling RGB on their consoles.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 12:49 am 


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ldeveraux wrote:
Sure, but crap in = crap out. Why spend all that money on an OSSC Pro if you're going to send a trash signal to it?

There are other systems/consoles that best they can do is S-video.
If you spending $300+ on a Community developed Open sourced Video processor that runs on FPGA, I want all the input options I can get.
The downside the original OSSC had is the lack of Inputs.

And we see with similar products like the Retrotink X5 that it has issues with some RGB modded consoles, but not their S-video out.
I am not sure if the OSSC Pro is going to have issues with RGB modded 3DO and Sega Master System like the Retrotink X5 did but I do see a pattern.
As those systems also give issues to certain model PVMs.

Check out My Life in Gaming's Retrotink X5 Video to see what the issue I am talking about.
https://youtu.be/FvFzcn8NCb4?t=1904
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 1:50 am 


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I think that incompatibilities with any scaler should probably wait a while before being judged, since oftentimes they're bugs that can be fixed via firmware updates. Especially with FPGA scalers.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 7:45 am 


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Guspaz wrote:
I think that incompatibilities with any scaler should probably wait a while before being judged, since oftentimes they're bugs that can be fixed via firmware updates. Especially with FPGA scalers.
Many of the incompatibilities are usually related to video frontend chip (any idea what 5X uses?) which might or might not be fixable via FPGA. I spent tons of time working around the issues of TVP7002 in original OSSC but not everything could be fixed in the end. For Pro I selected most capable RGB video digitizer I could find and moved sync processing as much on FPGA side as possible.
Odolwa wrote:
I don't see why not just include the S-Video capability from the beginning? People are going to want it anyway.
As briefly mentioned earlier, the board should be technically capable of supporting s-video / cvbs as-is, but it needs PAL/NTSC decoding implemented on the FPGA. We'll see if anyone picks that as a task once the boards are available, but another way is to have a cheap expansion card with a chip from e.g. ADV7280 family that does the job, but ultimately is less flexible than a custom solution.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 9:20 am 


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Will it have USB functionality for updating firmware and adding custom profiles, or will it still use Micro SD?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 12:16 pm 


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MicroSD.
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OSSC Forums - http://www.videogameperfection.com/forums
Please check the XRGB Wiki before posting about the OSSC, XRGB Mini or XRGB3 - http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/Main_Page


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 6:11 am 


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The OSSC does not work for one of my Samsung 1080p TVs, even when I run it through the HDMI out port on my AVerMedia Live Gamer capture card. Will the OSSC Pro have the same problem? Will the Pro have better compatibility with older HD TVs? Does the Retrotink 5X have better compatibility?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 9:08 am 


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If you go back a page you can see Markus posted an infographic explaining how all the different operating modes work regards compatibility, lag, features etc.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 12:33 pm 



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Odolwa wrote:
The OSSC does not work for one of my Samsung 1080p TVs, even when I run it through the HDMI out port on my AVerMedia Live Gamer capture card. Will the OSSC Pro have the same problem? Will the Pro have better compatibility with older HD TVs? Does the Retrotink 5X have better compatibility?


RetroTink 5x tv compatibility is incredible. It solved the SNES and NES issue I had on Sony tv's where it wouldn't work on the original OSSC. Not only can I use triple buffer mode on the 5x, but I can also use frame lock mode (which is what I do use) for the lowest input lag possible. It just works.

I'm pretty sure the OSSC Pro will solve these issues too.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 6:37 pm 


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The reason I ask about compatibility, is because I have 2 Samsung 1080p TVs, one of them has major issues with the OSSC and works with very few of the Output Opt settings, and the other one works okay on most of the Output Opt settings. The one that works better, looks very bad when I use the 480p line doubling, the pass-through looks a little better than it, but with line doubling on 480p the colors are very washed out and blurry. I just want to be sure, with older model Samsung 1080p flat screens, there will be better compatibility with the OSSC Pro and the Retrotink5X Pro?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2021 6:52 pm 


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Odolwa wrote:
How come no s-video support?


This issue has actually been addressed by the OSSC crew. They made an add-on device for the OSSC called Koryuu. You can buy it from VideoGamePerfection. It's not cheap, but it's good and it is made for the OSSC.

https://videogameperfection.com/product ... ranscoder/

I'm really surprised that we do not see more S-Video discussion around here. It's the next best thing to RGB, can be cabled for peanuts, and is more compatible with stock console setups (at least in what is and was the biggest region by far, NTSC-U).

A RetroTink2X Mini with a RadioShack switcher and a throwaway PC-CRT is an ultra-affordable setup that can yield very good results. No modding, no RGB/sync/cabling bullshit. Of course RGB with professional switchers, premium cabling, and an OSSC on a UXGA Trinitron will yield superior results, but not everyone wants or can afford that kind of setup. Some folk are in the market for a Porsche 911, but for most people a VW Golf is the more sensible and realistic option. Just make sure you get a turbo!

Anyway, we're always talking about the Porsches. I'd be interested in seeing some serious S-Video setups!


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