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 Post subject: PixelFX Scaler
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:28 pm 



Joined: 05 Mar 2017
Posts: 478
Location: Woodinville, WA
https://twitter.com/PixelFXco/status/13 ... 92708?s=20

The right image on the above tweet appears to be yet another scaler on the horizon. 2021 is looking to be a great year for retro consumers across this, the OSSC Pro, and the RetroTink 5X. Details for the PixelFX one are still scant, but the DB-15 crowd should be happy based on that photo. :) I assume the second HDMI port is for scaling of digital signals as well?

My sense of the competition here is that the 'winner' is going to be the one that gets closest to 'it just works' for the largest number of people. But it's going to be exciting as more details are shared across all of these options.


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Scaler
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:29 pm 



Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 74
My dream is for a device to offer shader support, not unlike Retroarch.

And great 480i processing, as I'm sure some of the R&D will spill over into the PS2Digital.


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Scaler
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2021 7:05 pm 


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Joined: 09 Apr 2014
Posts: 467
Location: UK
Nice, this is going to be a great year for scalers!


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Scaler
PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2021 3:52 pm 



Joined: 20 Feb 2018
Posts: 11
My scaler wish list - everything the OSSC currently does but also:

1) up to 4K scaling
2) zoom options for things like GBA & PSP
3) downscaling anything to 240P
4) high quality 480i deinterlacing
5) per console presets that can be tied to outputs to control extron (& other) switchers
6) web remote & IR remote
7) hdmi, scart, component, s-vid, composite, vga (dB-15), and dvi inputs for video
8) RCA, Toslink, RCA style Optical audio inputs
9) optical audio output (from hdmi)
10) hdmi & DB-15 (RGBS, RGBHV, RGsB selectable) outputs for downscaler
10) horizontal & vertical scanline options
11) handheld LCD style filters


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Scaler
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:05 pm 



Joined: 24 Jun 2015
Posts: 205
Location: Florida
More details about our scaler's features: https://www.pixelfx.co/content/morph_roadmap.html


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Scaler
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:57 pm 


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Image warp might be worth adding to the roadmap (later on), if you have the resources. Slightly curved edges can be a pleasing effect that echoes the appearance of a CRT. There are no easily obtainable, affordable, and low latency solutions to get the CRT curvature.
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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Scaler
PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:03 pm 



Joined: 24 Jun 2015
Posts: 205
Location: Florida
orange808 wrote:
Image warp might be worth adding to the roadmap (later on), if you have the resources. Slightly curved edges can be a pleasing effect that echoes the appearance of a CRT. There are no easily obtainable, affordable, and low latency solutions to get the CRT curvature.
That's something I've been researching a lot and I think it's doable on the Morph, but nothing code-wise has been started on that front.


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Scaler
PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:53 am 



Joined: 17 Mar 2018
Posts: 171
Location: Germany
Your roadmap looks frikkin awesome, I can't wait!
If you do implement this will also be useful for fixing horizontal linearity on flat screen CRTs, for example.


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Scaler
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:00 am 


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Posts: 1284
SuperSpongo wrote:
Your roadmap looks frikkin awesome, I can't wait!
If you do implement this will also be useful for fixing horizontal linearity on flat screen CRTs, for example.


I was thinking the same thing, but you are talking some seriously complicated processing there. That would be incredible, but I'd be very surprised if that actually happens. You'd need to be able to adjust the stretch/squeeze of various sections of the image independently to get it right. Imagine the levels of OCD that would be triggered in trying to get perfection and tweak every little wobble out of a 36" FD Trinitron. We might never see some users here again :lol: :mrgreen:


Last edited by Josh128 on Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Scaler
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:10 pm 



Joined: 17 Mar 2018
Posts: 171
Location: Germany
I actually had this idea before, but in the context of super resolutions in Retroarch or Groovymame. I even asked Calamity about this
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.p ... 986.0.html
but nothing ever came of it. I realized the effort would be too big for me.


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Scaler
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:03 pm 


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Personally, I think using this type of function to be able to tweak geometry like this on a CRT would be a game changer, far more useful than just using the function to emulate CRT curved edges on a digital panel. It would really match with the name "Morph", and help differentiate the product from competitors.


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Scaler
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:57 pm 


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Warp at a few points on the edges may be managable using a remote control or a few slider bars. That's a lot of work right there, but I think it can be done. It can also be user friendly and easily accessable in both the onscreen and web client GUI.

"Free warp" with dozens of warp points (or freely placed points) is another thing entirely.

Even if the FPGA can manage dozens of warp points, how will end users control the feature? I can't see any way to properly implement the feature using a remote control. It would have to be driven by the web client and that would be a huge effort. I'm not sure that's realistic for a hobby machine, unless there's an open source or turnkey web client solution already out there.
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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Scaler
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:16 pm 



Joined: 21 May 2016
Posts: 42
I see 4k30...what frame rate do retro consoles output?


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Scaler
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:16 pm 


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It could be easily done with a remote (hypothetically). For horizontal fixes you'd have to divide the screen up into columns, say, 1-8. Each column could then be selected, then stretched or squeezed from selectable anchor points, the center to either side or evenly to both sides. For vertical, you could do the same but with rows instead of columns.

There are many different ways it could be implemented and controlled relatively simply, the above is just my idea of one. Regardless, while I have no idea technically how a feature like this could be implemented, I think we can all agree that it would likely be a very complex undertaking for anyone to program. One can only wish. :D


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Scaler
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:22 pm 


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Josh128 wrote:
It could be easily done with a remote (hypothetically). For horizontal fixes you'd have to divide the screen up into columns, say, 1-8. Each column could then be selected, then stretched or squeezed from selectable anchor points, the center to either side or evenly to both sides. For vertical, you could do the same but with rows instead of columns.

There are many different ways it could be implemented and controlled relatively simply, the above is just my idea of one. Regardless, while I have no idea technically how a feature like this could be implemented, I think we can all agree that it would likely be a very complex undertaking for anyone to program. One can only wish. :D


Will eight columns of fixed anchor points really be sufficient?

I also don't know how to draw the warp map GUI over the image with good contrast. It's frustrating when the white points blend into the image; I can't see what I'm doing.

I think it's easiest to have the beamer hooked up and adjust the warp map from my laptop. I also appreciate being able to drag and drop warp points, easily pin down fixed anchors, and manually type coordinate values for fine tuning.
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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Scaler
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:52 pm 


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Joined: 16 Jan 2014
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orange808 wrote:
Josh128 wrote:
It could be easily done with a remote (hypothetically). For horizontal fixes you'd have to divide the screen up into columns, say, 1-8. Each column could then be selected, then stretched or squeezed from selectable anchor points, the center to either side or evenly to both sides. For vertical, you could do the same but with rows instead of columns.

There are many different ways it could be implemented and controlled relatively simply, the above is just my idea of one. Regardless, while I have no idea technically how a feature like this could be implemented, I think we can all agree that it would likely be a very complex undertaking for anyone to program. One can only wish. :D


Will eight columns of fixed anchor points really be sufficient?

I also don't know how to draw the warp map GUI over the image with good contrast. It's frustrating when the white points blend into the image; I can't see what I'm doing.

I think it's easiest to have the beamer hooked up and adjust the warp map from my laptop. I also appreciate being able to drag and drop warp points, easily pin down fixed anchors, and manually type coordinate values for fine tuning.


Eight was just a hypothetical number, it could be more. That was just an example to demonstrate a system that could be manipulated with a remote. Im not against a detailed web GUI at all, I think that would be a cool addition for really detailed adjustments when needed. I enjoy the GBS-C web interface, its neat.


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Scaler
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:35 pm 



Joined: 20 Feb 2018
Posts: 11
Woozle wrote:
More details about our scaler's features: https://www.pixelfx.co/content/morph_roadmap.html


Wow did you just take everything from my wish list post and decide to build this thing to my custom specs? Lol You nailed damn near everything - I never dreamed it would be this awesome. The only things I didn’t notice were optical audio in/out and filters. This thing sounds absolutely amazing.


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Scaler
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:49 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1966
Will the "Advanced smoothing filters" include a de-dither filter that mimics the color-blending and transparency side effects of composite video encoders?


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Scaler
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:14 pm 


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Joined: 09 Apr 2014
Posts: 467
Location: UK
nmalinoski wrote:
Will the "Advanced smoothing filters" include a de-dither filter that mimics the color-blending and transparency side effects of composite video encoders?


I asked about composite blending like the mister does in the Genesis core and Woozle said it's possible in the other thread we have on the Pixel FX scaler. I'm not sure if adaptive composite blending was confirmed though.


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