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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 4:50 pm 


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Joined: 26 May 2015
Posts: 230
Hello Marqs, just a little last minute feature request. Can you add a mode that will make it rub my temples when I have a headache? Just thinking it would be really cool, hope it isn't too much work!


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 4:53 pm 


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+1 on USB support

P.S.
(Complaining about feature requests damages the noise to signal in this thread much more than feature requests do. Complaints about feature requests and unfunny jokes are off topic. Feature requests belong here and they are ON TOPIC.)

Edit: Forget it. I made it worse. Please continue clogging the thread with nothing burgers.

Edit to the edit:
The DE-10 Nano already has a USB port. All you need to add is a port on the case (positioned anywhere that is convenient) and a wire to the DE-10 Nano. If the case design isn't final, it's a small request.

It's not a huge ask.
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Last edited by orange808 on Wed Nov 04, 2020 8:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 5:15 pm 


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orange808 wrote:
+1 on USB support

P.S.
(Complaining about feature requests damages the noise to signal in this thread much more than feature requests do. Complaints about feature requests and unfunny jokes are off topic. Feature requests belong here and they are ON TOPIC.)

Feature creep is going to hinder this project more than signal:noise ratio in a discussion thread. It baffles me you think otherwise


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 7:05 pm 


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Everybody seems to think the one feature they want "deserves" to be included on the main board, and the thought of using the expansion port as it's intended for optional features a small fraction of users will utilize sounds like sacrilege.

No, a video scaler does not need a controller port as a default feature, just like it doesn't need the second HDMI output I'd like for streaming. And that doesn't even mean you won't get one! That's what the expansion port is for!


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 8:05 pm 


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Joined: 26 Oct 2012
Posts: 578
Location: Germany
I cannot believe that people here are requesting USB functionality for turning the OSSC Pro into an FPGA console. :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 8:07 pm 


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Just to be clear, I think it was marqs himself that even brought up the idea of using the OSSC Pro as a Mister-like device since it is based on the same FPGA / general architecture and presumably the community could port cores over easily. I wouldn't have even thought of that. So I'm a bit confused why everybody is so upset with me for suggesting something to actually making it work for that purpose. You gotta hook up a controller if you want to play on it, after all. I mean, hey, if I can't play Mister cores on the OSSC Pro, then that's that, but it wasn't even my idea in the first place and everybody is acting like it is this totally absurd, novel idea that has just been mentioned now for the first time.

Also, a USB port is an expansion port. I'm not suggesting to add a controller port, or an Ethernet port, or an M.2 drive slot or a connector for a calibration probe or lag tester and so on. A USB port just seemed like a good idea precisely because it is a very general purpose port that would allow all kinds of things, niche or not, to be added to the OSSC Pro later down the road without having to plan and develop them right now.

As for the existing expansion port design, I'm a bit worried that since the OSSC Pro lacks composite & S-Video input that port is essentially already used up just for the purpose of adding those.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 11:11 pm 



Joined: 02 Jan 2020
Posts: 8
@marqs
what do i need to start the DExx-vd_isl? i need to flash the de10n-vd_isl.jic with programmer? i have the pcb ready now...but without oled-display. ;-) is it possible to test the the de10-nano without the pcb but with yout software?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 8:00 am 


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ASDR wrote:
Just to be clear, I think it was marqs himself that even brought up the idea of using the OSSC Pro as a Mister-like device since it is based on the same FPGA / general architecture and presumably the community could port cores over easily. I wouldn't have even thought of that. So I'm a bit confused why everybody is so upset with me for suggesting something to actually making it work for that purpose. You gotta hook up a controller if you want to play on it, after all. I mean, hey, if I can't play Mister cores on the OSSC Pro, then that's that, but it wasn't even my idea in the first place and everybody is acting like it is this totally absurd, novel idea that has just been mentioned now for the first time.
It was mentioned as one potential extra use case, but at this point it's still unknown how suitable Pro would in general and whether the community is even interested in porting cores to a new platform. The basic idea is that the board already should contain essential hardware that can be utilized for that purpose, but no extra HW/cost would be allocated for secondary use cases like this. A single USB 1.1 port is still debatable since it's just 2 IOs and single connector even though it would be no use for other than low-speed peripherals like controllers (and could end up being critizised for this reason when people try to hook all kinds of peripherals to it thinking it's a PC).
ASDR wrote:
As for the existing expansion port design, I'm a bit worried that since the OSSC Pro lacks composite & S-Video input that port is essentially already used up just for the purpose of adding those.
In long run I hope s-video / composite decoding would get implemented on FPGA so that no extra HW would be needed (aside from passive adapter for connecting s-video to 3xRCA input).


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 8:06 am 


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jotheripper wrote:
@marqs
what do i need to start the DExx-vd_isl? i need to flash the de10n-vd_isl.jic with programmer? i have the pcb ready now...but without oled-display. ;-) is it possible to test the the de10-nano without the pcb but with yout software?
The firmware doen't work properly without add-on PCB being hooked to GPIO0, so that is a prequisite for practical testing. You also have to program de10n-vd_isl.jic by adding it on the chain after SOCVHPS in Quartus Programmer. The firmware now has a OSD and can be operated with the same remote as OSSC.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 12:07 am 



Joined: 02 Jan 2020
Posts: 8
Hey Marqs.
Thanks for your Help and the realy good Addon-Boards. I'm very happy with this new tool.

Image

Image


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 12:52 am 


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Joined: 14 Aug 2019
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Location: BW, Germany
Here too: congrats! :)

It's really interesting to see a second person build and use the DE10-Nano+vd_isl combination and see it in action. Indeed you might've provided the final straw that causes me to order a DE-10 Nano soon.

Be sure to use the opportunity to give it some good tests with the source signals and displays you have access to.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:54 am 



Joined: 02 Jan 2020
Posts: 8
@marqs
Is it possible for DExx-vd_is to integreate the scaler mode in the future?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 1:22 pm 


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jotheripper wrote:
@marqs
Is it possible for DExx-vd_is to integreate the scaler mode in the future?
Yes, it should be possible. Ideally most of the firmware code could kept shared with Pro, but it remains to be seen if there will be strong incentives for diverging the codebase. The current firmware is also very early and not that user-friendly, but it still serves as a proof of concept for adaptive LM, i.e. proving the HW is capable of generating spec-conformant timings (aside from pixel clock) without triple buffering while staying in framelock.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 12:48 am 


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Since DE-10 Nano has the same HDMI TX chip as is currently targeted for OSSC Pro, and even has a larger and faster Cyclone V, if you manage to reliably drive the SiI1136 and decide to replace the ADV7513 with it, OSSC Pro would have more of an edge over the DE-10 Nano+vd_isl combination, regarding "hard" features (excluding case etc). Everything else could be implemented via upgraded vd_isl Board connected to GPIO headers (HDMI RX on ISL board or separate board connected to other header), pretty much, assuming the firmwares are kept essentially in sync feature-wise (from FPGA's point of view both systems would be basically the same with some differences in pin assignment). Even assuming SiI1136 TX chip can be reliably driven with pixel clocks that enable more than 1920x1440p60 via GPIO1/Arduino headers, which would have the favorable side-effect of facilitating dual simultaneous output, there won't be enough pins left for ADV7611 HDMI RX chip (when connected to dedicated pins) or other expansion use cases that need more than just a few pins.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:44 pm 


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So is the OSSC pro itself just going to be a series of additions to the DE-10 Nano board? Or is it currently just the development board for the future final PCB?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:54 pm 


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sparksterz wrote:
So is the OSSC pro itself just going to be a series of additions to the DE-10 Nano board? Or is it currently just the development board for the future final PCB?


It's going to be its own thing. I believe there is some code divergence between the solutions based on recent posts.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:31 pm 



Joined: 20 Oct 2016
Posts: 66
vol.2 wrote:
sparksterz wrote:
So is the OSSC pro itself just going to be a series of additions to the DE-10 Nano board? Or is it currently just the development board for the future final PCB?


It's going to be its own thing. I believe there is some code divergence between the solutions based on recent posts.


That's my understanding too - though I'm personally much more excited about the DE-10 Nano addon idea than the monolithic OSSC pro box.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:22 am 



Joined: 02 Jan 2020
Posts: 8
@marqs
did you activate the sound in DE10-vd_isl?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:30 am 



Joined: 04 Sep 2010
Posts: 1848
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Ugh, barrel jack for power? I shake my head at any new piece of electronics that is not powered via usb-c . Barrel jacks are so old fashioned which is reflected in their bulky accompanying power adapters. Tiny sleek modern usb-c phone chargers provide more than enough wattage, up to 20W for an example the Anker charger with the same size and form factor of a iPhone charger.

Of course usb-c ports are not only have a small footprint, but are more versatile as well.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:26 pm 


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USB ports only make sense for devices that takes 5V. For everything else it would be stupid.

I personally really don’t like USB connectors for power, especially micro USB. They are so flimsy and break too easy.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:40 pm 


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kamiboy wrote:
Ugh, barrel jack for power? I shake my head at any new piece of electronics that is not powered via usb-c . Barrel jacks are so old fashioned which is reflected in their bulky accompanying power adapters. Tiny sleek modern usb-c phone chargers provide more than enough wattage, up to 20W for an example the Anker charger with the same size and form factor of a iPhone charger.

Of course usb-c ports are not only have a small footprint, but are more versatile as well.
It was considered at one stage, but the idea was discarded for 2 simple reasons:

1. Reliability. I bet everyone knows people with phone / other device where USB Mini/Micro/Type-C connector has been torn off from PCB or otherwise has bad contact. Of course it's less of a concern for a device that's not plugged/unplugged daily, but still something that I'd like to avoid unless other constraints would favor them.

2. USB Power Delivery. To put it simple, it's a real mess. Most chargers / power adapters need negotiation before they can supply more than X milliamps.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:48 pm 


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jotheripper wrote:
@marqs
did you activate the sound in DE10-vd_isl?
It is enabled for SCART audio, you just need to connect J2 pins [2,4,6,8] to Arduino IO connector pins [D7,D6,D5,D4]. SPDIF input of the HDMI transmitter on DE10-Nano is not wired so you can't use optical input without modifying DE10-Nano or decoding SPDIF stream on FPGA.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:30 pm 


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kamiboy wrote:
Ugh, barrel jack for power? I shake my head at any new piece of electronics that is not powered via usb-c . Barrel jacks are so old fashioned which is reflected in their bulky accompanying power adapters. Tiny sleek modern usb-c phone chargers provide more than enough wattage, up to 20W for an example the Anker charger with the same size and form factor of a iPhone charger.

Of course usb-c ports are not only have a small footprint, but are more versatile as well.

I shake my head right back at you. USB is flimsy fucking garbage. Fuck sleek and modern. I want big and bulletproof


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:11 am 



Joined: 04 Sep 2010
Posts: 1848
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I would buy a current gen OSSC right now, but the eye sore barrel jack input with its 1A power requirement means I can't even use a simple USB to barrel jack cable to power it using a tiny 5W usb charger, since with such a rudimentary device on the other end they'll default to ancient standard 500mA current output, thanks Obama!

It simply wants to force me to purchase one of those obsolete hideous wall cancer of a power adapter to further clutter up my setup in order to work. No thanks.

Even the lowly retrotink2x accepts USB input as power, albeit an old fashioned mini usb port which makes my skin crawl. Old fashioned, but not antique at least.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:33 am 



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I would rather have the barrel plug for reliability (and being easier to fix if it does break).

I also have a feeling USB-C will give a lot more noise from people connecting inadequate PSUs.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:12 am 


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kamiboy wrote:
I would buy a current gen OSSC right now, but the eye sore barrel jack input with its 1A power requirement means I can't even use a simple USB to barrel jack cable to power it using a tiny 5W usb charger, since with such a rudimentary device on the other end they'll default to ancient standard 500mA current output

You seem to have very weird USB power supplies if they can detect that.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:10 pm 


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I seriously doubt Marqs and company are even considering a USB power jack, but for what it's worth, I am pro-barrel.

For all the reasons stated 1)reduced design complexity means there will be fewer support issues and fewer units returned for dumb reasons that could have been avoided. 2) robust physical connection on the PCB will ensure accidental damage prevention.

The second point I'm especially familiar with because I work with PCB designs and I build devices for a living. I end up with failed USB ports on devices from stress on a regular basis from vendors who supply components in the US and Canada (made in NA). The ports are generally surface mount and they can be flaky. I literally just spent two days and counting on fixing a device to replace a PCB with a failed USB 3.0 B port that was under basically no stress and sealed inside an enclosure.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:36 pm 



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I've been using an old 2A USB phone charger to power my OSSC since the day I got it and have never had a problem.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:39 pm 


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kamiboy wrote:
I would buy a current gen OSSC right now, but the eye sore barrel jack input with its 1A power requirement means I can't even use a simple USB to barrel jack cable to power it using a tiny 5W usb charger, since with such a rudimentary device on the other end they'll default to ancient standard 500mA current output, thanks Obama!

It simply wants to force me to purchase one of those obsolete hideous wall cancer of a power adapter to further clutter up my setup in order to work. No thanks.

Even the lowly retrotink2x accepts USB input as power, albeit an old fashioned mini usb port which makes my skin crawl. Old fashioned, but not antique at least.


You can get pretty slim AC adapters these days that don't block extra ports, since that seems to be your main concern.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC Pro
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 7:29 pm 



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Posts: 1880
vol.2 wrote:
1)reduced design complexity means there will be fewer support issues and fewer units returned for dumb reasons that could have been avoided.

You mean like connecting a 12V PSU to a 5V device because it shares the same plug/socket? :P

Mini USB should be plenty robust for a device that you're going to plug in, set down on a shelf, and not regularly touch (unlike a phone); and would be keyed to force people to go out of their way to overvolt and fry their video processor.

Still, I'd like to see superg's stats on how many returns he received for failed MicroUSB ports versus fried components from the wrong barrel-plug PSU.

Sirotaca wrote:
I've been using an old 2A USB phone charger to power my OSSC since the day I got it and have never had a problem.

Of course not; if you go from USB A to a barrel connector, you're effectively guaranteed 5V power regardless of the charger, because that's what standard USB has provided for decades (And it's what you get unless your device can negotiate for something else).

The problem instead is that, unlike USB, barrel plugs do not guarantee a specific voltage. For example, I have a "universal" wall wart with a barrel plug and a switch that will let me select 3V, 4.5V, 6V, 7.5V, 9V, and 12V, and it's normally set to 12V to power my component video switcher. If I wasn't paying attention and plugged this into my OSSC instead of the 5V PSU I got with it, I'd have to be online looking for either some replacement parts or a new OSSC.


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