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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 7:05 pm 



Joined: 12 Mar 2019
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Sorry if this has been explained already, but is there a final word on how TTL spec cables affect Trinitron SCART TV sets? Is the additional wear something to worry about?

Asking because I'm not sure about thefoo.83's Saturn TTL 5V cables sold before the current revision being fine for a TV (picture quality is excellent, though).


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 7:49 am 



Joined: 21 Jul 2014
Posts: 64
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I keep seeing 720p as the recommended resolution for users of 4K screens as seemingly it’s an exact multiple of 2160p. That’s all well and good but do any TV’s actually do an integer scale from 720p?

If not then surely 1080p is better as there is more information for the tv to scale from for motion clarity etc?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 8:38 am 


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It's more important what's happening before. For example since you can't integer scale 240p to 1080p, you simply drag your scaling problems along with the secondary upscaling from 1080p to 4K.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 3:10 pm 



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EnragedWhale wrote:
I keep seeing 720p as the recommended resolution for users of 4K screens as seemingly it’s an exact multiple of 2160p. That’s all well and good but do any TV’s actually do an integer scale from 720p?


Not to my knowledge.

I believe there is a 39inch zisworks engineering sample that does 720p integer scaling though: http://www.zisworks.com/shop.html


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 2:43 am 



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EnragedWhale wrote:
If not then surely 1080p is better as there is more information for the tv to scale from for motion clarity etc?


4K TVs and monitors seem to all present upscaled 1080p content better than upscaled 720p, in the sense of a crisper image. I don't think it affects motion one way or the other though.

The reason to recommend 720p is so that when "scanlines" are used they line up properly, for the reasons Fudoh mentioned.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 3:52 am 


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fernan1234 wrote:
EnragedWhale wrote:
If not then surely 1080p is better as there is more information for the tv to scale from for motion clarity etc?


4K TVs and monitors seem to all present upscaled 1080p content better than upscaled 720p, in the sense of a crisper image. I don't think it affects motion one way or the other though.

The reason to recommend 720p is so that when "scanlines" are used they line up properly, for the reasons Fudoh mentioned.


There are no guarantees.

It depends on the individual display. I've seen uneven scanlines feeding 720p to a 4k television.
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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 5:58 am 



Joined: 21 Jul 2014
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Thanks guys

Fudoh wrote:
It's more important what's happening before. For example since you can't integer scale 240p to 1080p, you simply drag your scaling problems along with the secondary upscaling from 1080p to 4K.


Hadn’t considered that, cheers Fudoh


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:20 pm 


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Sorry if this is silly... Is it normal that the top of the screen on PVM has an odd lighting cast on it? I don't notice anything in normal operation, but when all the lights are off in the room I can see a spot that's noticably brighter in kind of a cone shape towards the top. Is this possibly indicative of a particular calibration issue, or is it just normal?

These photos didn't come out very bright because of my camera, but they show where it is:

top of screen https://imgur.com/a/vjidZBh


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 6:02 pm 


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What's the correct aspect ratio to play PC-98 games? Since most games were 640x400, I was wondering if the resolution was anamorphic, like MS-DOS, to be stretched vertically to fit a 4:3 screen.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 10:39 pm 


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Logan Jones wrote:
What's the correct aspect ratio to play PC-98 games? Since most games were 640x400, I was wondering if the resolution was anamorphic, like MS-DOS, to be stretched vertically to fit a 4:3 screen.


I think it's down to the scan line spacing and the pixel aspect ratio. (not square)
640x400 is an extension of IBMs EGA, so my gut tells me NEC was using that.
If that doesn't help and no one here can answer, then the vintage computer federation forum is p good for such matters.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 3:09 am 



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Logan Jones wrote:
What's the correct aspect ratio to play PC-98 games? Since most games were 640x400, I was wondering if the resolution was anamorphic, like MS-DOS, to be stretched vertically to fit a 4:3 screen.


Nice, another fellow PC-98 game fan. I've actually never used a NEC monitor for PC-98, but I've seen pictures of both 4:3 monitors and some wider looking ones (not sure about the aspect ratio though). On the 4:3 monitors the games did have an anamorphic presentation, whereas on the wider ones they filled out more of the screen but not completely. When I emulate this computer I send 480p video to my BVM and it looks great. I'm assuming this looks close to the 4:3 monitors, which must have used a progressive picture where only 400 out of the 480 lines were used.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 7:56 am 


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Quote:
I'm assuming this looks close to the 4:3 monitors, which must have used a progressive picture where only 400 out of the 480 lines were used.

no, 400p is 31khz as well, so the 400 lines cover the whole screen. To keep the scan rate at 31khz the refresh rate is increased to 70Hz.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 12:11 pm 


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fernan1234 wrote:
Logan Jones wrote:
What's the correct aspect ratio to play PC-98 games? Since most games were 640x400, I was wondering if the resolution was anamorphic, like MS-DOS, to be stretched vertically to fit a 4:3 screen.


Nice, another fellow PC-98 game fan. I've actually never used a NEC monitor for PC-98, but I've seen pictures of both 4:3 monitors and some wider looking ones (not sure about the aspect ratio though). On the 4:3 monitors the games did have an anamorphic presentation, whereas on the wider ones they filled out more of the screen but not completely. When I emulate this computer I send 480p video to my BVM and it looks great. I'm assuming this looks close to the 4:3 monitors, which must have used a progressive picture where only 400 out of the 480 lines were used.


I honestly don't think PC-98 is anamorphic as such. OP is referring to a special anamorphic mode that msdos (msdos the program) ran in. It would simply stretch itself to suit whatever resolution it was run in. It was done to avoid situations like an impossibly small input cursor in a high resolution text mode.
I still think the pc-98 makes up the screen real estate with scanline spacing, the same way EGA is 4:3 at 640x350 (normally) or 640x400 (special extension used by ATI)
If you think you're seeing a non 4:3 monitor in use it could be a monochrome monitor used for a text mode in some dedicated way.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 12:15 pm 


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I got a bit curious about pc98 because of the earlier question. Certainly, it does have a 24kHz mode, then the refresh rate is below 60 Hz.
http://retro-type.com/PC98/NEC-MultiSyn ... WNX_04.jpg

This other guy has a lot of screenshots of games, he’s using a similar LCD, but the games look perfectly fine stretched to 4:3.
https://www.leadedsolder.com/2018/10/08 ... o-day.html
https://www.leadedsolder.com/2018/10/09 ... stall.html
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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 12:24 pm 



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Posts: 543
To me squares do look square, and in general graphics look right, when the 640x400 image is displayed with top and bottom borders on a 4:3 screen. The scanline spacing may have been more on the original NEC monitors, covering more of the screen but still with some underscan, preserving geometry in the game graphics.

In catalogue pictures from the time I remember seeing games did seem to be displayed as if underscanned.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 12:37 pm 



Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Posts: 38
I got a question concerning the 3 cave games DDPDOJ ESPGALUDA1 and Ketsui on PGM conversion.

This question is mainly concerning Ketsui.

Do they play exactly the same as the original PCB? Is the slowdown the same as the PCB?
Its different hardware right? I guess I just dont understand how they can be the same.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 6:59 pm 



Joined: 01 Jul 2016
Posts: 49
vol.2 wrote:
Sorry if this is silly... Is it normal that the top of the screen on PVM has an odd lighting cast on it? I don't notice anything in normal operation, but when all the lights are off in the room I can see a spot that's noticably brighter in kind of a cone shape towards the top. Is this possibly indicative of a particular calibration issue, or is it just normal?

These photos didn't come out very bright because of my camera, but they show where it is:

top of screen https://imgur.com/a/vjidZBh
I have the same thing on my JVC DT-V1710CG (only with 240p) but I don't know what is causing it. My guess is that the tube or the metal case of the monitor is magnetised, but I'm not realy sure.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 10:36 pm 


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Quick purchase advice question: VCR to the LG C8 series OLEDs. These TVs have USB, HDMI, and a stereo composite input (via a weird mini headphone jack-like connector, but with three segments instead of two). I could go with a selector box or I could go with a cheap S-Video to HDMI box. Gaming efficiency isn't a concern; mainly price followed by picture quality (carrying sound over HDMI is a must).


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 11:53 pm 


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Ed Oscuro wrote:
Quick purchase advice question: VCR to the LG C8 series OLEDs. These TVs have USB, HDMI, and a stereo composite input (via a weird mini headphone jack-like connector, but with three segments instead of two). I could go with a selector box or I could go with a cheap S-Video to HDMI box. Gaming efficiency isn't a concern; mainly price followed by picture quality (carrying sound over HDMI is a must).

Do you have a upscaler/video processor? I'm expecting 480i to look like absolute trash on a 4K panel, especially a poor source like VHS (not hating, I watch some VHS every now and then too)


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 3:58 am 


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Nope, I've managed to avoid those - aside from the X-RGB series of course. I'm setting this up for someone else, so I'm hoping to go with a cheap solution.

I realize now that I didn't do my homework - I should have tried connecting via composite and seeing how it looked.

LG TVs have done a good job of scaling 480i (ish) content in my experience. I have some VHS rips of an old TV program, saved as 240p (ish) video files, and the video seems just fine on a TV. No miracles, but fine. The older 42lm3700 this set is finally replacing was a good performer in this regard (I've written before about how a prerecorded tape of Jurassic Park looked pretty good and clean).

It would be interesting to see how S-Video to HDMI fares compared to just playing via composite, but price might preclude that option for now.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 5:06 am 



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omgdmp wrote:
I got a question concerning the 3 cave games DDPDOJ ESPGALUDA1 and Ketsui on PGM conversion.

This question is mainly concerning Ketsui.

Do they play exactly the same as the original PCB? Is the slowdown the same as the PCB?
Its different hardware right? I guess I just dont understand how they can be the same.


They're identical.

Same hardware, different form factor. No different than Demon Front or Spectral Vs Generation. They both officially came on PGM carts and PGM single game Jamma boards.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 5:49 am 


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Ed Oscuro wrote:
LG TVs have done a good job of scaling 480i (ish) content in my experience.

In the past yeah I would agree, I was impressed with what their full-hd sets did for the ps2 or vhs.
But their current 4k are like 99% different machines for which no one even a thorough reviewer has given 480i a single thought about, afaik, this is unknown territory.
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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 10:21 am 



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Posts: 604
If a insert a 12mhz 68000 into a system16, and change nothing else, the pcb will run at its proper 10mhz speed right?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 9:58 pm 


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Namingway_PL wrote:
vol.2 wrote:
Sorry if this is silly... Is it normal that the top of the screen on PVM has an odd lighting cast on it? I don't notice anything in normal operation, but when all the lights are off in the room I can see a spot that's noticably brighter in kind of a cone shape towards the top. Is this possibly indicative of a particular calibration issue, or is it just normal?

These photos didn't come out very bright because of my camera, but they show where it is:

top of screen https://imgur.com/a/vjidZBh
I have the same thing on my JVC DT-V1710CG (only with 240p) but I don't know what is causing it. My guess is that the tube or the metal case of the monitor is magnetised, but I'm not realy sure.


I still don't know what causes it, but I remembered that it can be removed by expanding the image vertically toward that direction, either by making the image larger or shifting it up (with internal controls) .


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 10:05 pm 


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Is Super Turrican on the SNES supposed to be a widescreen game? Because my 4:3 CRT letterboxes the heck out of it...
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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 10:50 pm 


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BuckoA51 wrote:
Is Super Turrican on the SNES supposed to be a widescreen game? Because my 4:3 CRT letterboxes the heck out of it...


i feel like that's impossible. widescreen basically didn't exist until the 2000's (insofar as the general console consuming public goes) ive seen super turrican at 4:3. pretty sure it was the snes ver. maybe someone monkied with the rom your using?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 11:08 pm 


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Quote:
i feel like that's impossible. widescreen basically didn't exist until the 2000's (insofar as the general console consuming public goes) ive seen super turrican at 4:3. pretty sure it was the snes ver. maybe someone monkied with the rom your using?


It is the DX version with the enhanced sound so I guess maybe. I'll take a photo tomorrow.
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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 11:43 pm 



Joined: 02 Mar 2017
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Bassa-Bassa wrote:
Sorry if this has been explained already, but is there a final word on how TTL spec cables affect Trinitron SCART TV sets? Is the additional wear something to worry about?

Asking because I'm not sure about thefoo.83's Saturn TTL 5V cables sold before the current revision being fine for a TV (picture quality is excellent, though).


You want to attenuate it with the proper resistor. Too high voltage can cause wear over time, and most consumer sets are looking for something like ~0.7vpp instead of 5 TTL level sync.



vol.2 wrote:
BuckoA51 wrote:
Is Super Turrican on the SNES supposed to be a widescreen game? Because my 4:3 CRT letterboxes the heck out of it...


i feel like that's impossible. widescreen basically didn't exist until the 2000's (insofar as the general console consuming public goes) ive seen super turrican at 4:3. pretty sure it was the snes ver. maybe someone monkied with the rom your using?


Quite a few old games have letterboxing on the top and bottom, it's not widescreen, just unused area in those parts of the screen. Don't know why, and can't load up Super Turrican right now to test for myself if that's one of those games.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 10:29 am 


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Square often shrunk the play field to keep the game running smoothly, iirc.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 11:53 am 


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BuckoA51 wrote:
Is Super Turrican on the SNES supposed to be a widescreen game? Because my 4:3 CRT letterboxes the heck out of it...


Are you playing the 50Hz version by mistake?
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