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 Post subject: Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:41 am 


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Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Posts: 235
Location: Italy
Fudoh wrote:
Quote:
Apologies for sounding like a complete dummy, but what are those 512/768/720 numbers?

it's the resulting width of the image depending on your OSSC settings.

512 = 2x 256 (optimized sampling width)
768 = 3x 256 (optimized sampling width)
720 = 2x 360 (generic 4:3 sampling width)

512 and 768 are achieveable with the optimized setitng, while 720 is what you get in generic mode.

Got it. Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 6:36 pm 



Joined: 01 Jul 2015
Posts: 94
I am guessing that when the game gear adapter comes out, it won't be possible to use that on a real genesis.


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 Post subject: Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 6:38 pm 


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MidOrFeed2015 wrote:
I am guessing that when the game gear adapter comes out, it won't be possible to use that on a real genesis.


No genesis can't play Game Gear games.


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 Post subject: Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:00 pm 


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Lawfer wrote:
MidOrFeed2015 wrote:
I am guessing that when the game gear adapter comes out, it won't be possible to use that on a real genesis.


No genesis can't play Game Gear games.

Correct. There was actually an entire discussion on either the most recent or second most recent retro roundtable detailing why it can't.


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 Post subject: Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:44 pm 


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It can't play GG games directly, but through a very convoluted route of having the GG rom converted to master system and using the converter to play that master system game on the Mega Drive, yeah, you can "play" a GG gear on a Mega Drive.


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 Post subject: Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:45 pm 


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Anyone noticed the small cartridge picture on the lower right of the menu incorrectly shows the back side for both US and EUR format? The JPN version correctly shows the front (label side) of the cart. If you go into the option screen for changing the "SKIN", choose another region and save afterward, an animation of the cartridge spinning clearly shows there is a front side. Seems like a glitch/bug that wasn't caught in the testing.
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 Post subject: Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:08 pm 


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Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 1653
Location: Denmark
They also had JP style carts showing in the EU skin at first >_<

But with amount of pirated games they display on their site it's probably hard for them to keep track :D Sonic 3 Complete, the classic Alien Solder in US and they also have a Jap style cart of Gleylancer with PAL label ;)

https://www.analogue.co/assets/content/ ... imated.gif

EDIT: Completely missed the weird JAP/EU hybrid of Battle Mania 2.


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 Post subject: Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:24 am 



Joined: 28 Mar 2019
Posts: 6
Looks like firmware version 4.4 fixed the issues I was having with Final Fight CD and Silpheed. Good thing since I was ready to get my Model 2 Sega CD recapped and have the laser replaced when it turns out it's not needed. Silpheed still has disc read errors though but this behavior is expected. I am interested in a Model 1 Sega CD though.....


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 Post subject: Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:05 am 


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Did a Youtube video on Perfectly centered and calibrated video settings for each core:

https://youtu.be/dzVu05ACVhc

At a later point in the video during the Colecovision settings, I realized I forgot to disable vertical interpolation for SMS and Colecovision, but I caught it and went back and corrected both. Just a heads-up on that if you spot the error and freak out ;-)
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 Post subject: Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:12 am 


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thanks for the video! Nicely done.

at 48:50 in the video you left the horizontal interpolation for GG enabled despite using the square pixels scaling option. Is that correct? Doesn't the square pixel option automatically provide an integer scale on the horizontal axis? EDIT: I think you go into it again with the 720p settings at 1:01:24 and at the very end, but why doesn't "square pixel" provide an integer scale? Shouldn't it as it does on the 320px MD settings?


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 Post subject: Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:04 am 



Joined: 17 Jan 2017
Posts: 60
Hopefully Kevtris will fix the scaling issues. I’ve done a feature request for both the Super NT and Mega SG for native 1600x1200p and/or 1920x1200p output. Also a scanline fix for 4x/5x scaling output with the option for true black scanlines. Hopefully these will get to Kevtris.


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 Post subject: Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:08 pm 


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Fudoh wrote:
thanks for the video! Nicely done.

at 48:50 in the video you left the horizontal interpolation for GG enabled despite using the square pixels scaling option. Is that correct? Doesn't the square pixel option automatically provide an integer scale on the horizontal axis? EDIT: I think you go into it again with the 720p settings at 1:01:24 and at the very end, but why doesn't "square pixel" provide an integer scale? Shouldn't it as it does on the 320px MD settings?


Kevtris labels it "square pixels" based on the LCD of the original handheld Game Gear. However, it's in reality a non-digital square pixel aspect correction, and thus requires horizontal interpolation. I believe in the video you can see me demonstrate this by scrolling through the different integer scales, and the "square pixel" label doesn't land on one. It's just a bad label Kevtris gave it in my opinion. He should have just called it "Handheld AR" or something like that.
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 Post subject: Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:38 pm 



Joined: 29 Apr 2016
Posts: 148
FBX, your Genesis horizontal position setting works for centering 320-width games, but leaves 256-width games off center. I settled on 21 as a compromise (for 4x).

Also, are you confident about the Game Gear's aspect ratio? You and Kevtris seem to be targeting a 1.3:1 AR, but I've always understood it to be 1.33:1. Sega's technical manual seems to back this up (65.27 mm wide x 48.90 mm high = 1.33:1). I think you mentioned in the video that you measured a GG with a caliper to arrive at this AR. I will try to check my GG with a ruler tonight, out of curiosity.

(Speaking of Kevtris's bad labels, the Game Gear ones for "4:3 for 16:9" are very strange, resulting in a 1.44:1 ratio.)


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 Post subject: Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:46 pm 


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copy wrote:
FBX, your Genesis horizontal position setting works for centering 320-width games, but leaves 256-width games off center. I settled on 21 as a compromise (for 4x).


Since we can't have independent centerings for each mode of the Genesis, I decided to base the center values for 320 since 75% of the Genesis library uses this mode for main gameplay.


Quote:
Also, are you confident about the Game Gear's aspect ratio? You and Kevtris seem to be targeting a 1.3:1 AR, but I've always understood it to be 1.33:1. Sega's technical manual seems to back this up (65.27 mm wide x 48.90 mm high = 1.33:1). I think you mentioned in the video that you measured a GG with a caliper to arrive at this AR. I will try to check my GG with a ruler tonight, out of curiosity.


I believe I mentioned Kevtris's values weren't perfect (off by a couple pixels) but it was so close that I felt it wasn't anything to get into a twist over. Also that technical manual may be basing the dimension values off the entire screen rather than the active lit pixel area. This is something you can test for posterity if you like, and then we can determine if it's worth hassling over. As I said, my findings showed Kevtris was very close, and enough for me to recommend it without making a fuss.
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 Post subject: Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:21 pm 



Joined: 29 Apr 2016
Posts: 148
FBX wrote:
I believe I mentioned Kevtris's values weren't perfect (off by a couple pixels) but it was so close that I felt it wasn't anything to get into a twist over. Also that technical manual may be basing the dimension values off the entire screen rather than the active lit pixel area. This is something you can test for posterity if you like, and then we can determine if it's worth hassling over. As I said, my findings showed Kevtris was very close, and enough for me to recommend it without making a fuss.

I've confirmed the active pixels on my my Game Gear measure at 65 x 49 mm, so 1.33:1 it is.

I'm not saying this is the end of the world, just trying to helpfully point out an area for improvement in the settings. The difference between 1.30:1 and 1.33:1 is pretty noticeable when you're enlarging the image on an HDTV (you're talking a 34 pixel difference at 7x). I've always appreciated your commitment to accuracy and fidelity, so I'd hope you'd want to nail this one too.


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 Post subject: Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:44 am 


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copy wrote:
I've confirmed the active pixels on my my Game Gear measure at 65 x 49 mm, so 1.33:1 it is.


When I put 65x49 in my paint program, it claims that AR is 1.3265:1. Nevertheless, I'll look into it and post an update for that core.

Edit: Technical manual would likely be even more accurate then, so the actual AR is 1.3348:1.

New values for 1080 mode:

1345x1008 enable H, disable V

New values for 720 mode:

961x720 enable H, disable V
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 Post subject: Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:18 am 



Joined: 29 Apr 2016
Posts: 148
No offense FBX, but if I can be frank, I think you've gone way too far in the other direction now.

FBX wrote:
When I put 65x49 in my paint program, it claims that AR is 1.3265:1. Nevertheless, I'll look into it and post an update for that core.

Edit: Technical manual would likely be even more accurate then, so the actual AR is 1.3348:1.

We're talking third-decimal rounding errors here. It's obvious what Sega's goal was: this was, for all intents and purposes, a 4:3 display, matching the standard aspect ratio of the time. You could even watch your 4:3 TV broadcasts on it via the TV tuner.

(Note that the technical manual also incorrectly lists the pixel count as 160 x 146 instead of 144, so they could very easily be slightly off on their screen dimensions as well. Using this as a basis to calculate the AR out to 4 decimals rather than rounding to the standard 2 seems like an odd choice.)

FBX wrote:
New values for 1080 mode:

1345x1008 enable H, disable V

New values for 720 mode:

961x720 enable H, disable V

This is incredibly silly. Reduce both those widths by one single pixel, and you get perfect 4:3.

Even better, for 720p/5x, a width of 960 gives you perfect 6x horizontal integer scaling, and you can disable H interpolation for gloriously sharp pixels. Are you seriously going to advise people to go with 961 and have to significantly soften the picture for the sake of a ~0.0014 difference from 4:3?


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