ST: DonPachi

[Erppo]

Hmm, yeah. Those look made up.

In fact I just did a super quick test and it seems to be the same as in all the sequels (I assume you meant score instead of GP counter there). The formulas in the guide would mean that adding a single low value popcorn into the beginning of a chain starting with a high value target would make the whole chain worth way less score (like only a fraction of the shorter chain score), which is obviously false.

I had a look again at the formulae, and it looks like I never corrected them in the first place. Can someone give me a corrected version of the formulae to edit them in? No smart aleck comments needed, thank you.

I don't know how it actually works but it seems to be the basic: "kill something -> add thing's value to the chain value -> add chain value to the score", which would be an arithmetic progression when chaining things of equal value. Maybe it's not exactly that here but at least that should be closer to the truth than the current explanation.

Also, I find all of this extremely dubious:

you also have two other types of chain: the debris-based chain and the scenery-based chain. The debris-based chain is actually the typical chain you get with the smaller planes on stage 4 and on the debris before the secret final boss (hence the name). It's not the sum of hit you get, but just the number of hits multiplied by 100, or:

100N*K

With K being the basic value of the first enemy: this means that you can at least increase the overall value by starting with a carrier and continuing with small planes. Last but not least, you can start chains with scenery elements, which are worth 0 points, and they're worth:

(N-1)N/2*K

With K=100.Scenery is always worth 0 points, at any case, but it can be useful to continue the chain.

It's trivial to check that the worth of scenery (revealing stars/bees) is 200 points. I'm going to bet everything in that part is false.

[Shepardus]

I had a look again at the formulae, and it looks like I never corrected them in the first place. Can someone give me a corrected version of the formulae to edit them in? No smart aleck comments needed, thank you.

I don't know how it actually works but it seems to be the basic: "kill something -> add thing's value to the chain value -> add chain value to the score", which would be an arithmetic progression when chaining things of equal value. Maybe it's not exactly that here but at least that should be closer to the truth than the current explanation.

As far as I can tell that's correct. In other words, each time you kill an enemy the amount of points you get is equal to the point value of whatever you just killed, added onto the sum of the point values of all the previous enemies in the chain.

So if you kill a bunch of 100 point enemies, you get 100 from the first, 200 from the second, 300 from the third, 400 from the fourth, etc. If you kill a 100 point enemy, then a 1000 point enemy, then more 100 point enemies, you'll get 100 from the first, 100 + 1000 from the second, 100 + 1000 + 100 from the third, 100 + 1000 + 100 + 100 from the fourth, etc.

[Erppo]

Considering all of the DDP games use that formula with their own additions (non-killing laser hits in DDP + various hyper-related things in the others), I would be pretty surprised if that isn't exactly how DP works.

[Randorama]

I don't know how it actually works but it seems to be the basic: "kill something -> add thing's value to the chain value -> add chain value to the score", which would be an arithmetic progression when chaining things of equal value. Maybe it's not exactly that here but at least that should be closer to the truth than the current explanation.

It might be closer, but can you just write down a more precise formula that I can copy and paste in the guide?

Also, I find all of this extremely dubious:
It's trivial to check that the worth of scenery (revealing stars/bees) is 200 points. I'm going to bet everything in that part is false.

I don't doubt it, but see comment above.
If you can't help on how to correct the mistake and actually write the correct formulae, I can't edit and improve the guide.

Sorry, but I will not answer back if I don't see a more constructive attitude.

[Shepardus]

So as Erppo said each time you kill something two steps happen, 1) add enemy's value to chain value, 2) add chain value to score. If you add everything up, the score you get from a chain of N enemies is

N * first enemy + (N-1) * second enemy + (N-2) * third enemy + ... + 2 * N-1th enemy + 1 * Nth enemy

[Erppo]

It might be closer, but can you just write down a more precise formula that I can copy and paste in the guide?

I do not understand how is it even possible to express that more precisely. I wrote exactly what happens with the score calculation, assuming the game works like the other DDP games. It has been reworded in the thread multiple times already but every explanation contains the same information.

Also, I find all of this extremely dubious:
It's trivial to check that the worth of scenery (revealing stars/bees) is 200 points. I'm going to bet everything in that part is false.

I don't doubt it, but see comment above.
If you can't help on how to correct the mistake and actually write the correct formulae, I can't edit and improve the guide.

I believe the mistake in that part is simply that all of it is nonsense, and the correct course to correct the guide would simply be to delete all of it. Where did you get the info that there are many different kinds of chains?

[Randorama]

It might be closer, but can you just write down a more precise formula that I can copy and paste in the guide?

I do not understand how is it even possible to express that more precisely

with a simple function.

I wrote exactly what happens with the score calculation, assuming the game works like the other DDP games. It has been reworded in the thread multiple times already but every explanation contains the same information.

Here is the answer I was looking for, not some verbose prose:

N * first enemy + (N-1) * second enemy + (N-2) * third enemy + ... + 2 * N-1th enemy + 1 * Nth enemy

Thanks, Shepardus.

The key problem, however, lies here:

I believe the mistake in that part is simply that all of it is nonsense

Yet you couldn't write a simple formula, and have not offered explanation what other parts of the guide present incorrect information...

and the correct course to correct the guide would simply be to delete all of it.

I fail to see what is incorrect with the rest of the guide, because of the vagueness of your comments.
It seems that you have some gripe at something I wrote 10 years ago, forgot about, and never edited.
You kids seem to care, but I don't, anymore.
I am serious: at the moment, I recall that the game is by Cave, and that is about it.

The guide is ten years old, so it wouldn't be a bad idea that those of you who actually play the game sit down and write something at least 10 times better.
You guys can write one and post a new ST online, as you seem to have lots of time and motivation on your hands.

Once you are done, please let me know, but not before.
When you have one online, I can cancel this one.


Good luck with your work.

[Erppo]

I fail to see what is incorrect with the rest of the guide, but you can write one and post it online. The guide is ten years old, so it wouldn't be a bad idea.
This, provided that you can do something beyond criticizing.

There's no need to rewrite anything instead of just deleting that part, unless someone can come up with evidence that there actually are some other kinds of chains. Since this is the only place where I've seen that claim, I see no reason to assume that some targets would chain differently from the rest for some arbitrary reason.

Yet you couldn't write a simple formula, and have not offered explanation what other parts of the guide present incorrect information...

What? I quoted the exact part I believe is untrue.

[trap15]

There is no formula. It's an accumulator. Every enemy is worth its own value plus whatever is in the GP counter, then adds its value to that counter.

[Randorama]

There's no need to rewrite anything instead of just deleting that part, unless someone can come up with evidence that there actually are some other kinds of chains. Since this is the only place where I've seen that claim, I see no reason to assume that some targets would chain differently from the rest for some arbitrary reason.

Errpo, sorry, I may be sleep-deprived, but there was a floating "it" that had a main interpretation: "it=the whole guide".
I can simply say "trust me, I am a linguist", to cut a long story short.
If you mean the part on the different chains, by "it", it is another matter entirely.
It's out now, and please don't ask how it was in to begin with....I can't recall.

Yet you couldn't write a simple formula, and have not offered explanation what other parts of the guide present incorrect information...

What? I quoted the exact part I believe is untrue.[/quote]



Yes, but if you re-read the guide, you will realize that the formula can't be just plugged in: the rest of the explanation of the chaining system should be rewritten accordingly.

Again, I am very serious: if you guys can re-write a guide that is better than this old 10 years junk, I would very happy.
I can't care anymore, so it is your time now to get it right and care about guides.

There is no formula. It's an accumulator. Every enemy is worth its own value plus whatever is in the GP counter, then adds its value to that counter.

I had to google the term, as I could even not recall what an accumulator is.
Please see my answers above, anyhow, or move on, thank you.

[Eaglet]

Sorry dude, you done fucked up.

[system11]

Again, I am very serious: if you guys can re-write a guide that is better than this old 10 years junk, I would very happy.

A small history lesson - much of the information in the older guides on the forum is actually even older than the timestamp, originating from previous incarnations of the forum. At the time finding information in Japanese on the subject was much harder, finding people good at the games was harder, some of the information was worked out in isolation, some even worked out while feeding coins into machines. I remember a time where some games people are now pretty familiar with were only rumoured to exist, nobody in the West had even seen them. The scene has vastly changed since then, more people really know how some of the games actually work, the average skill level of players has increased, Japan is less of a closed door.

As such, if some guides are now wrong given information we now have, then they either need fixing or replacing. If the original author no longer wants to continue it's very simple for us to replace the threads and update the index. If someone can write a better one then please, do so - it makes the world a better place.

There's certainly no reason to be rude or arrogant about it, take for example the post directly above mine - that helps nobody, what was the point?