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 Post subject: Re: ST: Ketsui
PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:05 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: ST: Ketsui
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 7:50 pm 


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zakk wrote:
Question for the...4 of you who might actually know.

Stage 5 mid-boss: is there a way to predict or influence which side it starts the first attack from?

I'm trying the method where you lock on to one of the bits at the top; but I find if the bullets start coming from the same side as I'm locked onto I die. If they come from the other side I cancel them all before they hit me. And I suspect it isn't random..


A question from 2007 which hasn't been answered yet.
I'm trying to clear the first loop and having the exact same problem. Any tips?
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Ketsui
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:18 pm 


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Plasmo wrote:
A question from 2007 which hasn't been answered yet.
I'm trying to clear the first loop and having the exact same problem. Any tips?


If you're using the B ship, the lock shot engages slower than A so you won't have time to kill it should the spray come on that side. Make sure to move as high up as possible on the screen AFTER the lock is fully engaged. The A ship will always be able to destroy the tower in time. If you're using B ship, please try C shot only as you won't get the "pause" when it switches to lock shot. I know this isn't the answer, but it's something.
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Ketsui
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:46 pm 


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:o

I'm not sure if I'm missing anything about the scoring other than what it says on world of arcades. get 5's etc.

Why are there espgaluda style breaks in the boss energy bars? nothing visible seems to happen.


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 Post subject: Re: ST: Ketsui
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:08 pm 


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kernow wrote:
Why are there espgaluda style breaks in the boss energy bars? nothing visible seems to happen.


Different "moods". For each bar you shoot away, the grumpier the boss gets. 8)
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Ketsui
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:28 pm 


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emphatic wrote:
kernow wrote:
Why are there espgaluda style breaks in the boss energy bars? nothing visible seems to happen.


Different "moods". For each bar you shoot away, the grumpier the boss gets. 8)


And the scoring, as simplistic as its described on world of arcades? I swear I'm missing something.


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 Post subject: Re: ST: Ketsui
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:20 am 


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WoA doesn't tell you anything about the multiplier that you build up with 5-chips and which decreases when you kill something with lock shot. Sometimes it's better to build up a multiplier with regular shot and then drop the lock shot on the midsized bad guys for maximum score increase.

@Emph

Thanks! Will try. I'm using Type-A btw, so it should be easy for me.
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Ketsui
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:03 am 


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Plasmo wrote:
I'm using Type-A btw, so it should be easy for me.


I find that the lock shot engages even faster when you're holding A + C. I always press both at the start of each 5-chip stream, so this should apply to the 5th midboss towers as well.

kernow: Try C-shooting a popcorn enemy, then lock onto a mid sized enemy (your tank of preference) and while holding lock, fly around hitting popcorn enemies that get in the way of your laser tip and somehow the score/counter magically increases beyond what doing a non-combo attack would. And as Plasmo says, the higher the counter, the larger the points. There's also a trick with non-popcorn enemies that gives you extra chips: weaken it with C, then press A half a second before it blows up, timing it to lock engage and receive extra chips of the value of your proximity. A good training part is those two semi-large planes at the start of stage 1. Hit them hard and up close with C shot avoiding their first blue, aimed shots, then move up and press down A right as they shoot those read spread patterns. If you get 5-chips from the first explosion, hold A for the final blow.
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Ketsui
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:34 am 


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ok, thanks. I've been kinda doing that already, just wondered what everyone else was doing also. I shall play some later. :)


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 Post subject: Re: ST: Ketsui
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:45 pm 


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kernow wrote:
I shall play some later. :)


Good man.
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Ketsui
PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:44 am 


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Does anyone have any advice regarding scoring on the Tsuujou loop? The few times I've made it there my scoring for any of the stages has been pretty abysmal compared to my first loop scores, and I'm not really sure what I should be doing here to maximise my score without dying too often. :? I still have a lot of trouble surviving so maybe I just need to improve, but any tips would be really useful.
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Ketsui
PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 4:28 am 


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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80ZAel6ZHws

Uh, is this PCB messed up or something, or is getting 300 Chips before the planes REALLY possible?
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Ketsui
PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 6:03 am 


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ratikal wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80ZAel6ZHws

Uh, is this PCB messed up or something, or is getting 300 Chips before the planes REALLY possible?


Entirely possible. Takes practice though, I can't get my multiplier any higher than 700 at the midboss at this moment and this guy goes beasting and hitting nearly 900 before the midboss...
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Ketsui
PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:36 am 


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ratikal wrote:
Uh, is this PCB messed up or something, or is getting 300 Chips before the planes REALLY possible?


Also, that's the port, not the PCB. :lol: But no matter, the port and PCB are identical when it comes to chip droppings. I have gotten as much as 356 before the "two planes" on MAME, PCB and the port, it's just a matter of using your lock shot correctly. Kill a popcorn enemy, lock onto a bigger enemy, than continue killing popcorn enemies (while the lock shot is still on the bigger enemy).

Here's an "average" run for me, 17.7 millon on stage one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzeC-MdQUQw
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Ketsui
PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:08 pm 


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I was thinking maybe it was bugged cause the audio warped a bit in the beginning. God damn, man. I think I should learn to 1CC the game before I start improving my score on Stage 1. 15M is good enough for right now.
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Ketsui
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:56 am 



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Hello, it's been a long time I don't post on this board, so, if someone remembers about me, well: hello!

Well: I'm using Panzer Jager but I have seen that Tiger Schwert scores are a bit higher. I think it is not much after all, so the player shoul'd probably take the one he feels most comfortable with... or there is a ship wich is much more easy to use both in terms of scoring and survival? Assuming that you can do a high score with both ship, there will be one that will grant to achieve this good score with the less risks, I think...

Probably there are also some points of the game in wich Tiger Schwert is better than Panzer Jager and vice versa...

I read both ships have the same speed when in lock shot. Also, I read that Tiger puts the pods in forward position, while Panzer Jag puts them in the back; so the Tiger locks on faster, but the Panzer shoul'd be much "protected" by random enemy collision while in lock shot, I assume...

Please help me choose my ship. I'm using Panzer from two or maybe three weeks, so I ask if I shoul'd bother trying the other or stick with Panzer. At the moment, I plan to achieve a first loop clear, but I think that if I'll get it before a month I'll try to go for a decent scoring run through the first loop.

I'm using MAME so I can train with save states.

Thanks for any advice :)


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 Post subject: Re: ST: Ketsui
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:22 am 



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stratos wrote:
Hello, it's been a long time I don't post on this board, so, if someone remembers about me, well: hello!

Well: I'm using Panzer Jager but I have seen that Tiger Schwert scores are a bit higher. I think it is not much after all, so the player shoul'd probably take the one he feels most comfortable with... or there is a ship wich is much more easy to use both in terms of scoring and survival? Assuming that you can do a high score with both ship, there will be one that will grant to achieve this good score with the less risks, I think...

Probably there are also some points of the game in wich Tiger Schwert is better than Panzer Jager and vice versa...

I read both ships have the same speed when in lock shot. Also, I read that Tiger puts the pods in forward position, while Panzer Jag puts them in the back; so the Tiger locks on faster, but the Panzer shoul'd be much "protected" by random enemy collision while in lock shot, I assume...

Please help me choose my ship. I'm using Panzer from two or maybe three weeks, so I ask if I shoul'd bother trying the other or stick with Panzer. At the moment, I plan to achieve a first loop clear, but I think that if I'll get it before a month I'll try to go for a decent scoring run through the first loop.

I'm using MAME so I can train with save states.

Thanks for any advice :)


They're both completely usable and equally effective for survival's sake, and it all depends on what you feel most comfortable with.


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 Post subject: Re: ST: Ketsui
PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:36 am 


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A fast LOCK SHOT engage is easier to survive with while scoring. When you release A button to get a 5-chip from a smaller enemy you are very likely to crash into a bullet unless you stay perfectly still, because of the jump from LOCK SHOT speed to SHOT speed. So if your play style is "flying all over the place" instead of "tap dodging precisely" than you should go with a slower ship.
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Ketsui
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:56 pm 


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I prefer Panzer Jäger as well. Sometimes I tend to run into bullets because it´s so much twitchier than the Tiger Schwert, but I just like to zip around the screen when I want to (faster ships are almost always my preference in shmups). I kinda dig the design as well. Ketsui really has some of the best ship designs in general, especially compared to the butt-ugly ones in DOJ, especially the hideously ugly green one. I only wish the lock-on shots were easier to see on the Panzer, the dark green makes them look a bit too mute for my taste.

Oh, and it took me AGES to figure out how the scoring actually works. I thought I had to be as close to the enemies as possible the whole time; actually looking how the 5 box timer works took me entirely too long :roll: It´s really fun now!

And one more thing: It definitely feels a lot different than the Dodonpachi games. The accelerating bullets, the tricky patterns even medium sized enemies make, the whole pace of the game makes it feel much more rapid and relentless. Going back to playing DOJ now feels kinda weird. For some reason Ketsui reminds me a bit of Esprade in the way I often end up running into bullets because I´m zipping around too much :lol:

Oh, and for the curious: The ship names are german and mean "Tiger Sword" and "Tank Hunter" :wink:

Damn, this game is fun. 5555555
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Ketsui
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 1:32 pm 


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Not to mention that the scoring system is in that same category of systems such as Esprade and Crimzon Clover except you can't abuse it so much here; you will work with the game and the game will work with you.
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Ketsui
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 2:14 pm 


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Agreed.

Also, it seems to me that dying isn´t such a bad thing here as it is in quite of lot of other CAVE games - some of my highest scores had some really idiotic deaths in there. Sometimes I even continue playing the credit even if I fuck up the first stage - that´s how much fun it is to just see huge chips flying out of enemies. It just works so well with everything else: The bass-driven shooting sound, the beeping of the lock-shot, the rattling drums of the soundtrack... It´s one of the most polished games I´ve ever played.

And I´m warming up with the Tiger Schwert now, I can see why it´s the more popular ship of the two - I overestimated the need for quick speed here, the wide shot is really helpful for triggering 5er chips in tight situations and there is a lot of very precise dodging to be done. I also like the ship design even more.

Also, I´m finally starting to be able to trigger the stage 3 1up on a regular basis. Unlike some of the 1ups in other games (like DDP) getting this one really is a risk vs reward kinda thing - the last attack of Vinogradov still makes me freak out a lot of the time, it´s really either losing another life or getting that 1up. I can´t think of a single situation in DDP where a pattern throws me off that much - the patterns in Ketsui really are on a whole different level than DDP and DOJ.
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Ketsui
PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:53 pm 


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I prefer the Panzer Jager myself. It's faster to C-shot mid-sized enemies with it (for the C -> A+C trick). It's also less prone to killing enemies that I don't want or need to kill yet.
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Ketsui
PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:30 pm 



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The Imakichi superplay uses Panzer Jager. I wonder if there's a clear scoring difference at high-level play? You're certainly required to move around a lot more, and stage 4 is where I really start to notice the survival differences.

It is interesting that the easier ship to play is easier to score with (in the beginning, at least).


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 Post subject: Re: ST: Ketsui
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:55 pm 



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captpain wrote:
The Imakichi superplay uses Panzer Jager. I wonder if there's a clear scoring difference at high-level play?

Well, seeing as the Tiger Schwert record is almost 50 million higher than the Panzer Jager record… Some of that is due to SPS being a superior player per se, most definitely, but I don't remember Panzer Jager having a higher score at any point at all, even before SPS joined the competition. It's got to be the locking speed that's killing its potential, which I take it makes a very significant difference in Ura loop.
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Ketsui
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:11 am 


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I don't really care that the Tiger Schwart is higher scoring; PJ is more fun for me to play. Plus on the 360 leaderboards, the scores are segragated by ship anyway.
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Ketsui
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:29 am 


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gs68 wrote:
on the 360 leaderboards, the scores are segragated by ship

That's good. Nowadays, every game should do that.
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Ketsui
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:27 am 


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Maybe I'm just retarded but can you practice just the bosses in training or do you have to do the entire stage? I'm talking about the 360 port.
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Ketsui
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:50 am 


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I don't think so; you have to start from the beginning of the stage. =/

If it's any consolation, at least you can use continues (as opposed to training modes in other Cave games, although those let you jump straight to the boss).
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Ketsui
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 12:19 am 


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Reposting since it wasn't answered:
Sapz wrote:
Does anyone have any advice regarding scoring on the Tsuujou loop? The few times I've made it there my scoring for any of the stages has been pretty abysmal compared to my first loop scores, and I'm not really sure what I should be doing here to maximise my score without dying too often. :? I still have a lot of trouble surviving so maybe I just need to improve, but any tips would be really useful.
I've gotten better at surviving but my scoring in the loop is still pretty poor; I gather on the whole it's less lucrative than the first loop unless you reach Ura, but it still seems there's a significant amount if you play it properly. For example, is it better to raise the counter to say, 400-500, and lock-shot almost everything after there since it basically refills itself? Should I instead be using the counters in the same way as the first loop? That kind of thing, I'm not really sure what the optimal tactics are. I'd check replays, but I don't have access to XBL here.
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 Post subject: Re: ST: Ketsui
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 1:43 pm 


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In the loop your multiplier is affected by suicide bullets; you get 1 multiplier for each suicide bullet fired. Sealed suicide bullets will not increase multiplier (not in omote loop, anyway). You also get more suicide bullets if you kill enemies with lock.

So, to score in omote loop you have to kill stuffs from afar, preferbly with lock (unless you are saving multiplier for something with a very high base value).


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