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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 8:47 pm 


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do you know who the player was...?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 2:41 pm 


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okay.... i'm well span out...

today, i managed to get TWO hypers from the beginning of stage 1 (on the lerge tower + rotating turrets). does anyone know how this is done!!?? i wasn't really paying attention to the screen, but i haven't been able to do it again since.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:44 am 


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Well, it's a Cave game so strange things can happen. Like the stage 3 boss in Dangun drifting right off the screen, or the final boss not opening its core and remaining invulnerable, or when bombs act weird in Ketsui. I'd say just take it as a glitch.

EDIT: Anyone know where I can get a few different replays for DOJ? Watching the dvd is nice, but I would like a few more to build strats from.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 5:50 pm 


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Venom wrote:
Well, it's a Cave game so strange things can happen. Like the stage 3 boss in Dangun drifting right off the screen, or the final boss not opening its core and remaining invulnerable, or when bombs act weird in Ketsui. I'd say just take it as a glitch.

I have seen weird shit in cave games, but never in DOJ in the probably 150 hours+ i've played it.
Most if not all hyper "mysteries" can be explained by the fact the hyper filling meter doesn't carry over. As bees can fill up to 30% of the meter, this means it's a waste to take a bee when this meter is more than 70% full.
Another source of filling is maxing the combo meter (this in the manual, and can be examplified easily in the beggining of stage 5), so shoot down groups when your combo meter isn't in danger.

In my stage 1 path i take the 3rd bee very late (well after the tower). By the time i grab it i have filled the first meter, without using the following:
Another trick is making sure you're at 200hits+ while grabbing the first two bees, this is useful if you want to hyper early (so that you can grab bees 4 and 5 while no longer in hyper).

But, this only explains about 130% hyper and not 200% at all.

edit: Have you been able to do this more than once?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:07 am 


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First 2 stages are starting to come together, but in the latter half of stage 3 and parts of 4 I'm running into trouble.

Stage 3: The first section up until the mid boss is alright, I have a path figured out, but keeping things going in the second half I'm getting nowhere.

Stage 4: The part where the "trains" come out from either side carrying a few tanks on top, chaining it isn't happening at the moment. Also the part with the sliding things on rails before the giant cannon (not the 1-up cannon), is there a pattern to their movement and placement, or are you supposed to go with the flow?

Quick and dirty strats/videos for those levels would be great. Easy path with decent scoring is all I'm looking for right now. Optimize later.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:40 am 


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@Venom:

Triple Lei's first loop ALL is up on YouTube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GxZt_p27Wo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzyKXgx-0pA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4HyGRP4yWs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NEe9fl_LpM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkh4lAtzwng

Slateman is hosting a couple of miscellaneous clips on his site, including my stage1 and stage2 No Hyper replays (which are very out of date now).
http://slateman.net/video/

Thats all I know of at the moment. There are a few random ones up on super-play.co.uk, but I doubt they are what you are looking for.
http://www.super-play.co.uk/index.php?c ... &gameid=34
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 3:05 am 


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Thanks Icarus, I lost my links for replay sites in a format and couldn't seem to find them again. Looks like it's going to be a ton of work if I want to move up our HS table, or even make the second loop.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 3:21 am 


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Venom wrote:
Thanks Icarus, I lost my links for replay sites in a format and couldn't seem to find them again. Looks like it's going to be a ton of work if I want to move up our HS table, or even make the second loop.


I think you're doing fine. I havent touched the game for years, stopped playing when Gradius 5 was released.

I found that learning a stage without Hypers is a good way to learn how to chain particular sections. One useful technique to aid your chaining is to tap the autofire button, which fires a set of single bullets, enough to knock the turret off a tank. Its useful for chain stalling as you do less damage to small tanks, leaving things on screen for longer, and buying yourself more time to chain.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 3:52 pm 


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Venom wrote:
Stage 3: The first section up until the mid boss is alright, I have a path figured out, but keeping things going in the second half I'm getting nowhere.

The 2nd half is much harder to chain than the 1st. i now use a hyper to gap the hole from the big ship on the left to the 2 columns of zako then the big ship on the right.
unfortunately this means i'm no longer in hyper to combo the part at the end with one circular base in the center and the mass of zakos, but tapping just right does the job.

Venom wrote:
Stage 4: The part where the "trains" come out from either side carrying a few tanks on top, chaining it isn't happening at the moment.

i still can't combo that part either.. the best i can do is combo until the second train.

Venom wrote:
Also the part with the sliding things on rails before the giant cannon (not the 1-up cannon), is there a pattern to their movement and placement, or are you supposed to go with the flow?

going with the flow works, i hold C and laser the sliding things as soon as they appear. you must move very aggressively with that strategy though.

overall i would suggest not spending too much time on comboing stage 4 and more on stage 5. much easier and worth a lot.
just combo the easy to combo stage 4 parts for now


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 6:40 pm 


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been away for a bit...

no, i never managed to di is twice, but i literally had two hyper icons come down the screen after a 200 hit chain.... i thought maybe it was something to do with how fast you take the turrets out??? who knows, i'll definitely try and figure that out.

venom, you sound exactly where i am in terms of playing! i wouldn't stress on the tail end of stage 3, because even fully chaining it wont net you a great deal of points. regarding the trains, i think even with a hyper you have to shoot at where the bees are to maintain the chain in brief breaks, although i've never done that section myself.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 7:04 pm 


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jpj wrote:
venom, you sound exactly where i am in terms of playing!
i wouldn't stress on the tail end of stage 3, because even fully chaining it wont net you a great deal of points. regarding the trains, i think even with a hyper you have to shoot at where the bees are to maintain the chain in brief breaks, although i've never done that section myself.

I was there too for a long time, after you can chain 1, 2 and the first half of 3 things get hairier. there is a difficult score bar at about 150m.

The second half of stage 3 is not negligible points wise if you can start it with at least 1 hyper and get the last bee at *2, it is much more important than the first half which main purpose is to collect hypers.

The first train can be chained without using a hyper even though the replay does use one, it is not too hard in fact. What is hard is chaining from the enemies after the second train to the next train, that one requires a hyper i think.
After that you can chain to the first middle ship after the wall easily, but it will be hard to chain from that to the next middle ship upward without being in hyper.
And after that if your chain is still going you must chain the cannon, which requires tanks saving beforehand, cannon cylinders chaining up close, and hyper usage with perfect timing. If you can do that the horizontal moving enemies shouldn't be too hard to combo (i can but only occasionally).


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:29 am 


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Thanks for the discussion of those spots. Haven't been playing this week due to midterms and labs...

So, stay alive and try to work on stage 5 rather than being so concerned early? Sounds like a plan for getting the score up. Funny you mention 150 mil Chtimi, that's about where I judged my current max to be if all things fell together. I think your score is safe for a while :P
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:07 pm 


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I got a question:

What are the possible requirements for reaching the 2nd loop?
Are there only those three mentioned in the main post or is it possible to score via combo/score as in dodonpachi?
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 2:30 pm 


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no, there are only those 3. no score/combo requirement

DOJ bugs:

-you can die and not break your combo:
unlike a bomb a death does not forcibly reset your combo meter, it just empties while you can't do anything about it. if you're extremely lucky you might maintain your combo. this is more likely in the 2nd loop with the slower jauge, but it's possible even in the 1st loop (last time it was at the 1-5 2nd mid-boss in simulation mode).
maybe that's intentional and not a bug but that's certainly weird

-2nd loop carried-over hyper bug:
it has happened to me several times, when carrying a hyper from the 1st loop into the 2nd: i use it in 2-1, and i get the visual effect and invincibility, but i don't get the hyper shot (or laser). what the fuck? i thought i had dreamt the first time but it seems to happen everytime..

loop transition:

the hyper filling jauge isn't emptied at the end of 1st loop.
a hyper that is launched during the 1-5 boss continues into 2-1 iirc.
your maximum amount of bombs is resetted (so exy starts with 1 again), you don't get 1 bomb if you ended the 1st loop with 0 though.
and obviously your lives (you do get 10m for each stock ship).

stage 4 boss, suicide:

anybody has hard data or really even hints from obscure japanese blogs about the stage 4 boss milkable formation? i seem to get the loose formation much more than 50% of the time, and in my experience ranks has nothing to do with it. is it just selective memory or is the probability of the tight formation less than 50%? Or is there an unknown factor?

also, don't forget about suicide on bosses. it is very useful, not only because it lowers rank without breaking a combo but also you get 30% hyper jauge (unless you're in simulation mode with unlimited lives. you're safe with 19 lives). plus it gives you two more bombs to launch at the boss, also without breaking a combo.
for instance most of the time when i arrive at the 1-4 boss a bee appears and the hyper jauge is partially filled from the last 2 bees (it is easy to get 150-200 hits just before the bees). don't pick that hyper, bomb the boss, suicide, bomb him again then pick the hper before it leaves the screen.
bingo, the first form is down without having to dodge anything, and you have a hyper and an almost filled hyper jauge to tackle the 2nd form. even if you die, the extra 30% will give be enough to get another hyper to milk the formation. if you don't die, that will be an extra hyper toward reaching the ideal 5 hypers for starting 1-5, with 0 bullets speed rank (the "hyper cnt" number in simulation mode) and lowered bullets amount rank (the rank jauge in simulation mode).. actually if i have to suicide several times to get a hyper to be able to milk the formation i do
i also like to suicide on the 1-3 boss when my max bombs count is still 1 and a hyper appears because i have no bombs left (what i don't want to happen is dying while in hyper because you don't get the max bomb +1 at death). anyway if you have no-missed up to the 1-3 boss and used a lot of hypers (which you will have if you play for score) rank decreasing measures aren't such a bad idea, and bosses are the best place for that.
given my hyper usage in stages 1-1 to 1-3 (1,4+1+1+1,1+2+1) if i don't suicide at the boss my hyper cnt starting 1-4 is 12 out of a max of 16 (not counting hypers at bosses which are cancelled by bombs), that means VERY fast bullets.
you will really need every dirty trick to play DOJ, as a golfer said don't try to be stronger than the course :) anyway the maximum bonus total for no miss-no bombing the 1st loop is only 30m, don't go for it unless you're very good. the maximum bonus only starts counting for a lot of points into the 2nd loop, it's what separates 1billion scores from 2billions perfection.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 5:04 pm 


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after how much hyper use is the rank at max.?
also did 2 singel hyper have the same effect on rank link use 2 at once?

whats the deal with the bomb stock?
you start with one bomb.
after you lose one life you sould have two.
but most oft the time i still stay with one bomb in stock. why?

any tips for chaining level 5 after the 1st midboss and stage 4 at the trains with the little tanks on it?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 12:38 pm 


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CRI wrote:
after how much hyper use is the rank at max.?

shot speed rank maxes out at 15 hypers in a row without dying nor bombing, this is the "hyper cnt" simulation parameter. for basic rank, i don't know but seems to increase faster with hyper use, for instance if i get to 1-3 no-miss no-bombing, the lines of aimed bullets are already very long.

CRI wrote:
also did 2 singel hyper have the same effect on rank link use 2 at once?

yes

CRI wrote:
whats the deal with the bomb stock?
you start with one bomb.
after you lose one life you sould have two.
but most oft the time i still stay with one bomb in stock. why?

because when you die while hypering, you don't get the max bomb +1.

CRI wrote:
any tips for chaining level 5 after the 1st midboss and stage 4 at the trains with the little tanks on it?

i can't help you for the trains, but as for stage 5 midboss, here is what i do:
-while lasering the mid-boss, launch the hyper before it dies (this should be at about 4 salvos of the pink and blue pattern)
-go to the left, middle height, and hold C
-slowly tap down to the corner, then tap to the right, avoiding the aimed bullets barrage
-when most of the zako are dead, do a hook and come back to the left to laser the remaining aimed cannon and big bee, sliding to the right (you're still holding C while lasering)
-as soon as the big bee dies, release A, kill zako to the right
-do another hook to the left, this time applying laser to aimed cannons
-slide to the left and apply laser to the zako coming from the left until the 2nd big bee appears, release C because you will need subtler tapping.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:53 pm 


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thx for the tips! :)
i practices stage 5 today a bit and made a nice combo.
combo broke at 1800 hits and my score for stage 5 was 116 mil.
the only part were i have little problems is when the 1st midboss appear.
any tips to chain it 100%?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 3:06 pm 


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CRI wrote:
thx for the tips! :)
i practices stage 5 today a bit and made a nice combo.
combo broke at 1800 hits and my score for stage 5 was 116 mil.

nice, keep on practicing 1-5, there are a lot of points here: your 116m would have been much more (probably 160+) if it had been in arcade mode because of the increased bee value (best case, 5000 instead of 1000). i have written something to that effect about stage 2 earlier in this thread.

CRI wrote:
the only part were i have little problems is when the 1st midboss appear.
any tips to chain it 100%?


you mean to combo into the 1st midboss 100% of the time? that part is tough and requires practice, especially if you want to grab the bee on the left range.
if you do, you need to get that bee before the mid-boss, otherwise you will have to hope for the 50% chance its 1st move is to the right. you can grab the bee after the boss but it will have to be while in hyper, so no hyper jauge filling there.

there are at least 3 solutions:
-start a hyper at the transition (easy and reliable but you need to have a hyper ready)
-delay killing zakos and kill the last big tank on the right last (i don't know this one well)
-my solution
for this part there are many others ways, find your own or adapt an existing one, it will be much more reliable that way.

i will explain my solution, starting from the small tanks that appear from a cave after the 3 big ships. the basic idea is to use the combo meter filling you get from uncovering the bee, and slide your laser to the mid-boss.

you will need 3 attacks, from first to last:

-short C tapping (SCT) to get short accurate bursts. the bursts need to have controlled delay between them (look at the combo meter). fast movement.
-laser holding (LH) while tapping to the left (as in, left-neutral-left-neutral etc...)
-full auto C holding (FCH) toward the end of the zako wave. this has two purposes: not getting hit by the zako, and not accidentally uncovering the bee too early which is a risk if you're lasering

so what i do is:
-SCT the tanks from the cave
-SCT some tanks on the left
-rush to the right and LH the big tank
-as soon as he dies the zako wave appears
-still LH and tap to the left
-when you're near the left ledge, FCH and continue to the left
-when there are only a few zako left, FCH while moving upwards
-when you kill the last zako, the timing is tight:
-when the jauge you got from the last zako is almost empty, uncover the bee and move to the right

don't reset if you miss, there are many other tough parts to practice in stage 5


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 11:44 am 


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chtimi-CLA wrote:
DOJ bugs:
-2nd loop carried-over hyper bug:
it has happened to me several times, when carrying a hyper from the 1st loop into the 2nd: i use it in 2-1, and i get the visual effect and invincibility, but i don't get the hyper shot (or laser). what the fuck? i thought i had dreamt the first time but it seems to happen everytime..


Hi chtimi,
this what you name "bug" is happened several times to me too, but i don't think thats a real bug. Why ? Because why it succeeded also me when I tried to activate more than a hyper to the beginning of the level or also later. Task that the reasons for which this it happens can happen because of some events:

- activating 1 or more hyper to the beginning of stage the 1-1, and the game does not preview it (for the simple reason that the first one hyper comes after the 200+ hit and therefore would be THEORETICALLY impossible to activate of one before)

- activating 2 hypers or more before the game previews it as an example (where obtain the first one hyper, we have already 2 or more and we use them; obviously it is not previewed I use it of a high number of hyper where we must have only 1 as an example ()...

You mean that someone of these theories can be to the base of this "bug"? I'm enough convinced about that...!
I' m sorry for the bad english...
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:34 pm 


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Ex-Goku wrote:
Hi chtimi,
this what you name "bug" is happened several times to me too, but i don't think thats a real bug. Why ? Because why it succeeded also me when I tried to activate more than a hyper to the beginning of the level or also later. Task that the reasons for which this it happens can happen because of some events:

- activating 1 or more hyper to the beginning of stage the 1-1, and the game does not preview it (for the simple reason that the first one hyper comes after the 200+ hit and therefore would be THEORETICALLY impossible to activate of one before)

nice intepretation. i call it a bug because you have a hyper and it doesn't work, but let's not get into semantics. i have tested in simulation and it does the same thing.

Ex-Goku wrote:
- activating 2 hypers or more before the game previews it as an example (where obtain the first one hyper, we have already 2 or more and we use them; obviously it is not previewed I use it of a high number of hyper where we must have only 1 as an example ()...

i'm not sure i understand what you mean, but if you start 2-1 with 1 hyper and earn a 2nd hyper, if you activate it you will be in hyper*2.

i'm starting to have a semi-reliable strategy for the 2-1 boss, but it requires 1 hyper and 1 bomb.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:12 am 


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While I dunno how strategy related it is, something I'm hoping I could find out about this game.

What exactly does the difficulty setting (Easy/Normal/Hard/V.Hard) actually AFFECT, gameplay wise? I've been doing some stuff with Simulation Mode to see how rank affects bullets and soforth (Interestingly enough, it seems rank doesn't affect bosses at all if I'm seeing things right). But I can't tell what, if anything, difficulty settings change. Any help on this would be appreciated.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:36 pm 


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The difficulty setting doesn't change a lot, like in most cave games. I think it is maybe slightly faster.
Unless you have a specific research interest in this i would suggest just playing on normal, it is hard enough as it is.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:30 am 


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Question; on the first boss I hyper then when the hyper runs out I move to the side to blow off the side bits so it will drop a hyper before I blow up the core. Sometimes I get a hyper, sometimes I just get a big star, and I believe on the replay disc the player gets 2 hypers (one from each side). Hows that work?
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:50 pm 


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Acid King wrote:
Question; on the first boss I hyper then when the hyper runs out I move to the side to blow off the side bits so it will drop a hyper before I blow up the core. Sometimes I get a hyper, sometimes I just get a big star, and I believe on the replay disc the player gets 2 hypers (one from each side). Hows that work?


If you kill one of the side bits you get 1 hyper, but if you take one out when they are spinning round the boss you get 2.

If you are getting a star it means that your hyper is still going when the side pods drop your bonus hypers. You can't have a hyper going and a hyper to pick up on screen at the same time.
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 Post subject: DOJ maximum bonus
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 1:41 pm 


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chtimi-CLA wrote:
l

-maximum
If you take a bomb and it makes you have your maximum number of bombs, you enter in maximum mode until you bomb or die.
This mode grants you K*N points every seconds, where N is the maximum
size (maximum*1 if you just filled your bomb stock, *2 if it was already fiiled, N=N+1 each time you get a new bomb while in the same maximum)
If you no bomb no miss loop 1, you will have around 30 mil from the max bonus.
The maximum level starts at 1 and is incremented to a max of 3 every time you complete a level without dying.


WHAT WE DONT KNOW
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Does the maximum level change how many points you get?



was searching for BL info and came across this:

http://www7.tok2.com/home/bgr/ac/ddpdoj/ddpdoj.html

[makishimamubonasu] & level: When “the ×2” is, the 220×2=440 point. If “the ×3” the 220×3=660 point becomes the frame fundamental point

When however with the black label “the ×2” is, when the 770×2=1540 point, it is the ×3, the 770×3=2310 point the frame fundamental point

As for level, the frequency which it stages clears in maximum state (maximum of 3) with.

If LV1 if the fundamental point is added every 3/60 seconds (“the ×2”, the 220×2×20=8800 point it enters in 1 seconds)
If LV2 if the fundamental point is added every 2/60 seconds (“the ×2”, the 220×2×30=13200 point it enters in 1 seconds)
If LV3 if the fundamental point is added every 1/60 seconds (“the ×2”, the 220×2×60=26400 point it enters in 1 seconds)


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:12 pm 



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Hi, I went through the thread and did not find any concrete mentions about this... I might have missed, though.

How exactly does hyper help keeping combo? I think I have some observations so far:
- When hypering, keeping a big enemy on laser makes combo meter stick at a higher point than when not-hypering
- When hypering, killing an enemy fills combo meter (always full??) more than when not-hypering.

- Does the combo meter deplete slower when hypering?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:49 am 



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Quote:
Does the combo meter deplete slower when hypering?



Yes, and also, when you activate hyper, the combo meter fills up automatically: so you can use the hypers to fill particular gaps in your combos to chain entire levels... However, there are often (more difficult) ways to chain those particular section of the stages without the hyper activation: this way you can save your hypers for more rewarding sections of the stages and obtain more points from the same full stage combo.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:54 pm 


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Anyone want to explain in a nutshell the easiest way to get hypers?
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:06 pm 


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Holding a high chain count and picking up the bee medals.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:27 pm 


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Situation:
You chain 3 enemies. The first one is worth 100, the second 300 and the third 500 points. The second enemy has 2 hitpoints. (you therefore get +1 to your chain because you are using the laser)


No Hyper – 4HIT

1HIT first enemy - base value 100 -> [0] + 100 = 100
2HIT second enemy – base value 300 -> [100] + 300 = 400
3HIT laser combo -> [100 + 300] + 10 = 410
4HIT third enemy – base value 500 -> [100 + 300 + 10] + 500 = 910
total =1820

One Hyper - 7HIT

1HIT first enemy - base value 100 -> [0] + 100 = 100
2HIT hyper bonus -> ([100] / 10) = 10
3HIT second enemy – base value 300 -> [100] + 300 = 400
4HIT hyper bonus -> ([100 + 300] / 10) = 40
5HIT laser combo -> [100 + 300] + 20 = 420
6HIT third enemy – base value 500 -> [100 + 300 + 20] + 500 = 920
7HIT hyper bonus -> ([100 + 300 + 20 + 500] / 10) = 90
total =1980

Five Hyper – 19HIT

1HIT first enemy - base value 100 -> [0] + 100 = 100
2HIT hyper bonus -> ([100] /10) = 10
3HIT hyper bonus -> ([100] /10) = 10
4HIT hyper bonus -> ([100] /10) = 10
5HIT hyper bonus -> ([100] /10) = 10
6HIT hyper bonus -> ([100] /10) = 10
7HIT second enemy – base value 300 -> [100] + 300 = 400
8HIT hyper bonus -> ([100 + 300] / 10) = 40
9HIT hyper bonus -> ([100 + 300] / 10) = 40
10HIT hyper bonus -> ([100 + 300] / 10) = 40
11HIT hyper bonus -> ([100 + 300] / 10) = 40
12HIT hyper bonus -> ([100 + 300] / 10) = 40
13HIT laser combo -> [100 + 300] + 20 = 420
14HIT third enemy – base value 500 -> [100 + 300 + 20] + 500 = 920
15HIT hyper bonus -> ([100 + 300 + 20 + 500] / 10) = 90
16HIT hyper bonus -> ([100 + 300 + 20 + 500] / 10) = 90
17HIT hyper bonus -> ([100 + 300 + 20 + 500] / 10) = 90
18HIT hyper bonus -> ([100 + 300 + 20 + 500] / 10) = 90
19HIT hyper bonus -> ([100 + 300 + 20 + 500] / 10) = 90
total =2540

Taken from the Black Label Superplay DVD booklet.
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