GD: DOJ system and strat

[chtimi-CLA]

stage 2 hyper distribution.

Doing a no hyper stage 1 combo one starts st2 with 5 hypers and a 90% jauge (H2=5, J2=90, T2=0).
What is the best hyper distribution for stage 2 with those parameters? There are 4 main points in stage 2 where to use hypers:
1/ at the start of the stage
2/ at the flower pot, after picking the left bee
3/ at the start of the mid-boss fight
4/ in the final section, after the last bee of the group of 3 bees.

i tested in simulation mode, and then altered starting parameters :

Code: Select all

   HYPER DISTRIBUTION      COMMENT                          SCORE before boss          MAX COMBO           
                                                               (in millions)
   
H2=5, J2=90, T2=0
    
      5-0-0-4                                                      55                   2250-2300           
      
      5-2*-2              The second hypering
                          was done just after                      54                     2118
                          picking up the bee 
                          at the right of the
                          "tower" before the mid-boss 
      
      5-0-3               The mid-boss dies too soon                     
                          with a triple hyper, combo broken
                          
      5-2-1-1             You have to hurry to pick up 
                          the double hyper and start it soon       57                    2000-2050
                          otherwise the bee at the right of 
                          the tower can't be picked while 
                          not in hyper

H2=5, J2=50, T2=0
      
    5-1-1-2             Easy and reliable                          57                      2150

Those scores are low, because in simulation mode the bee value is always 1000.
We can use this to calculate that if you get the *2 bees in stage 1 and 2, stage 2 bees are worth almost 34 millions total! It is important to get the *2 bees.
Even in arcade mode, 5-1-1-2 and 5-2-1-1 are better than 5-0-0-4, even though it has the highest combo (first successfull tries:95-96millions VS 91).
5-2-1-1 seems to be the best because your combo is high early.

The in-game replay gets 31m on stage 1 and 72.4 on stage 2.
This hyper distribution (hyperless st1, 5-2-1-1 st2) yields 21m st1, and 73.6 on stage 2.
I wonder how he gets almost as much on st2 with 4-1-1-1 (2 less hypers)..

That said to get much more than 95m before boss, i don't see any other way than hypering the 1st boss, i don't think 10 millions
are worth the effort since then you would have to adapt your st1 strat to a 2 hypers strat.

[Shalashaska]

Well I've had this game for about a month now and after having 'messed around' with it I'm attempting to dive into the deep end of the DOJ pool(ok I suck at metaphors).

But I do have 2 questions and I'm sure more will come.

The rank increase is directly proportional to the amount of hypers used at once, but then how is it decreased? If I use 5 hypers and the rank increases by 5 (or by 5% or 5 x whatever) then do I have to use 5 bombs or die 5 times to bring it back down to 'normal' (though just from observation I assume dying once brings the rank back to normal or at least to a lower level than using a bomb.)

Also, I just started watching some superplays and I would like to know what the advantage is to waiting to attack the first boss. At first I thought that maybe you could score more hits with a hyper if you waited to use it at a certain point, but I can score just as many hits usually by hypering and point blanking the boss at the start rather than waiting. I never understood why the player waits to kill the 1st boss in ESPGaluda either.

[zakk]

I never understood why the player waits to kill the 1st boss in ESPGaluda either.

He's waiting for the kakusei 'over' level to run up to max. It increases much quicker if you aren't shooting. That's about the only 'safe' opportunity in the whole game to do it. You need to do this for maximum scoring opportunities later in the game.

As far as the DOJ boss, I dunno. I have random speculation but someone more into the game probably has the right answer.

[chtimi-CLA]

The rank increase is directly proportional to the amount of hypers used at once, but then how is it decreased?

i would like to know too

Also, I just started watching some superplays and I would like to know what the advantage is to waiting to attack the first boss. At first I thought that maybe you could score more hits with a hyper if you waited to use it at a certain point, but I can score just as many hits usually by hypering and point blanking the boss at the start rather than waiting. I never understood why the player waits to kill the 1st boss in ESPGaluda either.

there are 2 reasons to wait:
-weakening the center so that once you kill the sides (while they're spinning) the angry attack doesn't last too long
-i don't hyper the boss but those who do probably wait at the beginning either to avoid dodging a particular pattern while in hyper, or because the hyper is wide, so waiting for a particular timing they're able to hit the center but not the sides (see 1st reason)

[DC906270]

i have just started playing this game, i have a question

others in this thread have talked about "using" hypers

to me, it seems you go "hyper" automatically, i dont know why and i have no control over it that i know about

is there a button i press once i have collected one of those "rocks" (cant think of a better expression for these ) which will let me go "hyper" when i choose?

also, is 7.5m points at the end of stage 2 a decent score?

[DC906270]

on further playing, when i score above 3m on the first stage, i will go hyper for the start of the 2nd stage - so is "hyper" mode activation related to scoring in any way?

sorry for being such a noob with this game btw

[BulletMagnet]

After you collect a hyper "rock" you will keep it in storage (you'll see it trailing behind your ship, and your bomb gauge will say "hyper ready") until you either a) die, or b) hit the "bomb" button, to "use" the hyper and go into "hyper mode." Even if you collect several hypers before "using" them, they'll all stay in storage until either of the above happens. However, note that when you have several hypers in stock you must use them all up at once, though using several will make its effect more powerful. Also, using a Hyper does not use up a bomb, even though you press the "bomb" button to do so.

Hypers are very important to scoring: when one is activated, your hit counter for chaining rises faster than usual, and thus you get more points for chains made with a Hyper; also, since using a Hyper fills up your combo meter for a moment, you can use a Hyper to bridge certain brief "gaps" in a stage where no enemies appear, until more appear to keep your chain going.

Keep in mind, though, that when you use a Hyper enemies get meaner, and will stay that way until you either use a bomb or die. However, even after that happens, enemies "calm down" most of the way, but not 100 percent, so a small part of the increased "crankiness" on their part is permanent. Thus, Hypers are a matter of risk: if you use them, you'll score more points, but your journey will be tougher, especially if you use lots of 'em.

[DC906270]

oh cool that info is a big help

(i was sure that hyper mode was being activated automatically tho? does this happen sometimes like if you have the full stock of hypers and cant carry any more??)

[BulletMagnet]

I'm not sure, I've never gotten that many at once, heh heh. I do remember that when you play on "Death Label" mode it gives you (I think) 5 Hypers right at the start, so you can hold at least that many...I'm not sure what the limit is on Hyper stock, if there even is one.

One small thing I forgot to mention in my previous post (though I'd guess you've seen it already) is that a Hyper, when used, will momentarily clear all bullets off the screen, so one can be used as a "last resort" similar to a bomb if you know something's about to nail you: of course, immediately thereafter everything onscreen gets angry, so don't expect a break for long!

[zakk]

Max hyper stock is 5. There is no auto-trigger of hypers.

[Shalashaska]

Thanks for the info Zakk and Chtimi. I have another (nubish) question though. In simulation mode in Galuda and DOJ (and probably others but I just noticed it in these two) there is an option for 'Setting Load'. I assumed that this let you load a custom configuration setting for simulation mode but I don't see any place that lets you save your settings. Is this not what that option does or am I completely blind and there's an option somewhere that lets you save settings?

also, is 7.5m points at the end of stage 2 a decent score?

To be honest, not really. If you're good at chaining and hyper usage then you can score 90-100 million or more by the end of stage 2.

Right now I'd say just have fun going through the game (since you just got it) and worry about score later. Then watch some superplays to get an idea of a chain path and practice, practice, practice in simulation mode. The high scores will soon follow.

[DC906270]

What is simulation mode? Does this let you practice stages and use restarts?

Also, i find that you have to be in the mood for Dodonpachi chaining, sometimes i am hopeless and other times im okay

can get pretty irritating though if you cannot better your last score no matter how hard you try

90-100m by end stage 2 would be an awesome score for moi

I think my best chain (without hypering the boss/without using hypers AT ALL) is around 200 hits at the start of the first stage, always lose it tho right after the circular spinning thing

just tried playing tonight just not one of those dodonpachi days im afraid

[chtimi-CLA]

Is this not what that option does or am I completely blind and there's an option somewhere that lets you save settings?

you can only load the parameters from a saved input file from arcade mode.
ie. Arcade mode-->Save replay yes-->load parameters. a bit annoying if you ask me

To be honest, not really. If you're good at chaining and hyper usage then you can score 90-100 million or more by the end of stage 2.

i don't think it's possible to get more than 110m

I think my best chain (without hypering the boss/without using hypers AT ALL) is around 200 hits at the start of the first stage, always lose it tho right after the circular spinning thing

like everybody who begins DOJ and wasn't a good DDP player. it took me weeks to chain this part, months to chain stage 1 reliably.

[chtimi-CLA]

i edited the 1st post about the 2nd loop requirements: to fulfill the bee requirement, the bees have to be taken without dying. like for the bee base value increase, you have to get the last bee at *2.
that bee requirement is the easiest way to get to the 2nd loop.

[MovingTarget]

Got this today, love it. Cant say that I was ever good at dodonpachi, but ive been able to chain past the spinning thing your talking about a few times today. Simulation mode really helps. My biggest problem is theres so much memorisation involved, which I'm not particularly good at. Destroying many enemies quickly I am good at I also really like the bullet patterns in this game.

One question, how important are the bees for chaining? Its a pain in the ass finding and remembering where they are...

[BulletMagnet]

According to some, finding and seeking out the bees can help you form a chaining path, since the best possibility for any stage is to both chain the whole thing and get all the bees...of course, this time around you not only have to find them, but make sure that you've got a decent chain going when you pick them up, so as to make them worth anything significant. In any event, finding 'em couldn't hurt. And of course, if you want to find 'em the easy way, just boot up one of the superplays and watch that, heh heh.

[chtimi-CLA]

Got this today, love it. Cant say that I was ever good at dodonpachi, but ive been able to chain past the spinning thing your talking about a few times today. Simulation mode really helps. My biggest problem is theres so much memorisation involved, which I'm not particularly good at. Destroying many enemies quickly I am good at I also really like the bullet patterns in this game.

simulation mode does help, but you have to play arcade mode to be used to different stage starting conditions and events. you don't learn a 0-thickness, rigid and perfectly defined path, but a set of branching stage parts corresponding to different situations (for example the stage 3 beginning that you're going to play with or without hyper during arcade mode)

One question, how important are the bees for chaining? Its a pain in the ass finding and remembering where they are...

they're very important:
-they're by definition on a possible reliable path as you said
-uncovering them fills the combo meter 100% (a little heli only gives 50%), many transitions are based on chaining a bee.
-they help in getting hypers, which help bridging a gap. they're not placed randomly hyper-wise, for example the 1st stage 3 bee is placed just late enough that if you start an hyper just at the beginning of the stage, you can pick up the bee while no longer in hyper. stage 5 has even more of this.
-on a full chain stage 2, at bee base =2000, bees are about 40% of the points. the end of stage 1-2 bee can be 8m (2000*2000*2), end of stage 1-5 30m (5000*3000*2).

[MovingTarget]

Thanks chtimi, very usefull information. Very happy today, got 15 million on the first stage Its very rewarding this game.

[Shalashaska]

Regarding the 2nd loop, do you have to 1CC the 1st loop in addition to fulfilling one of those requirements or can you credit feed through the initial loop, meet one of those requirements, and still access the 2nd?

Also, to answer one of my own initial questions, the players in the superplays definately wait to hyper the first boss at that specific point to drive up the hit count. I thought I could reach the same amount of hits by hypering at the start and you can, but it's much more risky than waiting. I also just recently watched the included superplay dvd (never bothered to give it a viewing until now) and wow is that stuff impressive.

My biggest problem is theres so much memorisation involved, which I'm not particularly good at. [...]
Its a pain in the ass finding and remembering where they are...

You'll get really used to it. Once you get your path down, bees and all, it will just become second nature and you wont even have to think about it.

Very happy today, got 15 million on the first stage Its very rewarding this game.

Congrats! And indeed it really is rewarding. There's nothing like the feeling you get when you see your practice come through. DOJ caused one of the biggest video game related smiles I've ever had the first time I completely chained a level.

Don't forget to join the DOJ hi-score thread and, when you're ready for it, the Death Label one.

[chtimi-CLA]

Regarding the 2nd loop, do you have to 1CC the 1st loop in addition to fulfilling one of those requirements or can you credit feed through the initial loop, meet one of those requirements, and still access the 2nd?

you have to 1CC the 1st loop too

[MovingTarget]

Congrats! And indeed it really is rewarding. There's nothing like the feeling you get when you see your practice come through. DOJ caused one of the biggest video game related smiles I've ever had the first time I completely chained a level.

Don't forget to join the DOJ hi-score thread and, when you're ready for it, the Death Label one.

Thanks I do intend on entering the high scores, jsut wanna practice a little more first though hehe.

Death label is a little nuts, I bombed my way through to stage 4 with some unbelievable(relative to what i'm used to) score. Couldnt comprehend the bullet patterns at all lol

[captain ahar]

Death label is a little nuts, I bombed my way through to stage 4 with some unbelievable(relative to what i'm used to) score. Couldnt comprehend the bullet patterns at all lol

same here. i take some time out every now and again to watch a superplay of death label. everytime makes me want to shout swears until i am even more deaf.

[Gopher's Ambition]

Here's a thought: Has anyone tried to use Leinyan's healing bombs to milk the bosses for more points - specifically, the stage 4 boss?

*imagines a 180,000 hit combo*

[TVG]

you mean death label? i dont think the combo would be worth the loss of the bomb stock bonus.
i dont play DL so i wouldnt know for sure tho.

[chtimi-CLA]

Stage 3 safe points: there are two.

-Just after the mid boss, stay in the lower left corner while lasering. Watch out for the last incoming ships as you go out of the safe spot toward the right, to link the item carrier.

-Toward the end, at the tower just before the small ship rush. You see the square that separates the 1P and 2P maximum bars at the bottom? Position yourself on the vertical between this square and the 2P bar, don't move. Stare at your combo meter, and tap slowly to take out the ship pairs slowly. bridging the gap to the small enemies rush is very easy if you're hypering, if you aren't you must use another strategy to chain.

edit: the 2nd safe point is only safe while hypering

[dpful]

I'm so sorry everyone, I searched but I can't find this info:
I just got the PCB and don't know much about it.
Every once and awhile, the bullets around me will rush to the ship and give me points (turn into stars?). What makes this happen?

[chtimi-CLA]

this happens as a cue you have filled a hyper bar, when the hyper can't be given immediately.
examples:
-fill a hyper bar at a boss (except if you have 0 bombs)
-fill a hyper bar while in hyper

all bullets onscreen are converted to little stars, this doesn't do much for your score but sometimes it can save your skin.

edit: it also happens when you start a hyper, but that's more obvious.

[chtimi-CLA]

about rank:
i used to suicide on the second boss to lower rank (hyper-->bomb-->suicide-->pick bomb for *2 maximum).
now what i do (arriving with a hyper and a half to almost full hyper jauge) i start a hyper (this ends filling the hyper bar), use bomb, pick up the bomb i had floating from the last bomb carrier.
i use this 2nd bomb just after the boss transitions to his last form. since i have no bomb left after, another hyper appears (this might not be the case depending on you hyper distribution), that i use when the last scatter becomes angry.

i like this strategy because:
-you use 2 bombs, it does lower the rank by a fair amount. bombing only once, stage 3 is a bit fast for now.
-you can't die with this strategy, since you are invincible 4 times
-you don't lose much in maximum bonus because a st3 run on maximum is peanuts anyway.
-you will start stage 3 in hyper, and easily get the first bee while no longer in hyper.


edit: is the stage 4 boss formation completely random? i seem to get the loose formation almost each time in arcade mode, and the tight one in simulation mode..

edit2: i wonder if this wouldn't be linked to rank, i think when i get the tight formation i'm on a higher rank. i'll try to verify this.

[Triple Lei]

Thanks for the tips, CLA!

Sort of on-topic:

I managed to use a bomb and a hyper at the exact same time!!!... kinda. Here's the vid:

Download File

[chtimi-CLA]

that's what happens when you use your hyper too early, i think you can't just use it 1 frame after you grab it, you must wait until it trails behind you.
this is one of the worst ways to break a combo, as toward a stage 5 mid-boss you rush to pick the hyper you need to bridge the mid-boss gap, you push B too early, a bomb comes out as your 1800+ combo turns green..