GD: Mushihimesama - Midboss Miscellanies

For posting and requesting strategic gameplay tips on shmups!
Post Reply
User avatar
Icarus
Posts: 7318
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 2:55 am
Location: England

GD: Mushihimesama - Midboss Miscellanies

Post by Icarus »

I'm trying to solve a small riddle that has been bugging me for a while.

I've noticed that the stage2 midboss in ver1.0 Original Mode tends to give varying amount of points for some unknown reason, of a value between between 50k to 600k. Consider these three clips I've chopped out of various practice runs:

1) 150k: http://thestudio-uk.com/namako_ftp/mush ... 2_150k.mp4
2) 430k: http://thestudio-uk.com/namako_ftp/mush ... 2_430k.mp4
3) 550k: http://thestudio-uk.com/namako_ftp/mush ... 2_550k.mp4

From observation, gem count isn't a factor in the amount of points the midboss gives you, as I could chain the trees quite decently up to the midboss and receive only 50k, and yet in the next attempt I could die literally seconds from the midboss and then get 600k from it. I also thought that the amount of points gained had something to do with the button you used to kill it with, but again, I've tried all the different standard and autofire buttons and can't find anything consistent. The only factor I can figure out is speed of the kill, as I am using a bomb-assisted speedkill. It looks like the speed you drop the last health bar determines how many points you get, but even then, I could time the bomb drop almost identically across each attempt, and the points gained on kill varies. It definitely has nothing to do with where you kill the midboss, as in all three clips, I kill the midboss in roughly the same location.

It is pretty frustrating knowing that your score potential depends greatly on some unusual factor, and what is even worse is that it appears that other midbosses are affected in the same way. If the factor could be determined, it would go a long way towards making scoring throughout the stages more consistent.

Any ideas?
Image
Erppo
Posts: 1146
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 8:33 pm
Location: Finland

Re: GD: Mushihimesama - Midboss Miscellanies

Post by Erppo »

I have no idea how it works exactly but it's rather easy to time the stage 2 midboss kill with a bomb so that you always get >500k from it. It's probably just about timing the kill but I'm not really sure. What you do before the midboss certainly doesn't affect it.
Image
User avatar
Icarus
Posts: 7318
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 2:55 am
Location: England

Re: GD: Mushihimesama - Midboss Miscellanies

Post by Icarus »

Erppo wrote:I have no idea how it works exactly but it's rather easy to time the stage 2 midboss kill with a bomb so that you always get >500k from it. It's probably just about timing the kill but I'm not really sure. What you do before the midboss certainly doesn't affect it.
Easier said than done. It seems like the timing is a lot more precise than originally thought, and it's getting to the point of rage when a decent run through a stage and a half is thrown off by a low scoring take from the midboss.
Image
User avatar
sikraiken
Posts: 1137
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:08 pm

Re: GD: Mushihimesama - Midboss Miscellanies

Post by sikraiken »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiuqB-rnsK4

Sorry about the quality, my laptop + capture software + mushi emulated is not that great.

It seems that the midboss' health meter just needs to be dropping as fast as possible right as it goes to zero. After I release the bomb, I move forward into the midboss while shooting.

I know that my power is max here, but this works fine under normal circumstances.
User avatar
Icarus
Posts: 7318
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 2:55 am
Location: England

Re: GD: Mushihimesama - Midboss Miscellanies

Post by Icarus »

sikraiken wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiuqB-rnsK4
It seems that the midboss' health meter just needs to be dropping as fast as possible right as it goes to zero. After I release the bomb, I move forward into the midboss while shooting.
Ahh, SiK: making perfect sense with illustrated examples. ^_-

I figured it had something to do with the speed of the kill. Your bomb timing and placement looks a lot more consistent than mine is - I tend to drop a bomb just before the health bar hits the オ in オリジナルモード, so that it detonates just as the boss shifts into its last form, but since the bomb flies in all sorts of random directions if you're above half-screen height, it throws everything off. I might have to rein in my pointblanking in this case and see if it works.

I'm kind of hoping that its only the stage2 midboss that does this, though…
Image
Erppo
Posts: 1146
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 8:33 pm
Location: Finland

Re: GD: Mushihimesama - Midboss Miscellanies

Post by Erppo »

The direction and speed the bomb flies in depends on how you are moving when you throw it. If it hits the edges of the screen it can bounce pretty randomly. If you stay still while throwing it, you'll know where it will land.
Image
User avatar
Icarus
Posts: 7318
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 2:55 am
Location: England

Re: GD: Mushihimesama - Midboss Miscellanies

Post by Icarus »

Further notes: only two of the three major midbosses - stage 2 and stage 5 - have score variation. For stage2's midboss, it's between 50k to 650k, while stage5's midboss varies between 50k to 500k. I'm still not sure if speed of kill is really a factor, as I've dropped the stage2 scorpion down pretty quickly with a bomb and came out with 100k, but it's probably my timing, or I'm moving while bombing or something stupid. This means you're likely to need to reserve at least two bombs total in the whole run for them alone, if you're going for a very high scoring no-miss, as there's no other way of dropping them quickly otherwise.
Image
User avatar
SPM
Posts: 452
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2020 7:04 pm

Re: GD: Mushihimesama - Midboss Miscellanies

Post by SPM »

I was looking for a definitive answer on this topic and thankfully our savior SMC shared this info on discord. I'll put it here for posterity: :D

Mid-bosses are composed of several hitboxes and damage is applied to them in a specific order. The number depends on the mid-boss, so that makes the max "multiplier" different for each. It looks like they have 9, 2 and 5, making the scorpion the most lucrative.

In order to get the full multiplier, you have to kill it with a bomb covering all the hitboxes. But to get maximum points you also want the very first hitbox tested for damage to receive the killing blow (the later in the sequence the hitbox that receives the killing blow from the bomb is, the fewer points you get). It then still has to go through the collision detection for all the other hitboxes. You get the points again for every hitbox that is hit after the midboss is already dead.

The position of the midboss matters a lot too. Especially in stage 2, if you bomb when the midboss is too high, some of the hitboxes will be missed.

In the end, it doesn't seem like something that'd be easy to manipulate. If the bomb does X damage (per hitbox) on the kill frame, you have to have no more than X HP left on the midboss at the start of that frame. The thing is you also have to point blank with supershot for most of the bomb to drain enough HP, but shooting at the kill frame is to be avoided (if a single bullet from your shot hitting a specific hitbox is what kills it you'll be guaranteed the minimum points), making any fine tuning pretty much impossible.
"There are three possible endings: the good one, the bad one and death" - Locomalito, Super Hydorah
Post Reply