ST: Mushihimesama Basics, Modes & Scoring

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Just picked up a copy of the PS2 (yay), popped a few credits into it. Gah, Original is murdering me; definitely not used to this game's pace. Few questions:

* What's the point of M-Shot? It doesn't appear to have the scoring potential of W-Shot or the nice and fast movement of S-Shot... is it basically the shot type everyone should ignore? Should I basically be sticking with either W or S shot? Recommendations on shot/option combinations for stages would be helpful.

* Does focused Trace do more damage than focused Formation assuming all laser hits connect? It seems like with good memorization Trace might be better, but for now I'm sticking with Formation...

* If I understand correctly, holding Shot + Fullauto does less damage than holding Fullauto and rapidly tapping Shot? I'm assuming I can get this effect in the PS2 version by holding C and manually tapping A rapidly without needing to use A+ (Rapid Shot) settings?

* Is Maniac actually easier due to clear due to slower bullets or something? I find I'm having an easier time (not counting autobombs) with it; is this just me? Also, I heard Arrange uses Maniac's patterns (aside from the TLB), does it also use the same rank progression?

[Hydeux]

* Best to begin : S for Original, W for Maniac/Ultra. M is, as you said, ignored by many players. As for options, just take the ones given to you, there's no need to get lost just to wait for the other ones.

* I don't think one type of options is stronger than the other, but keep in mind that with Formation, some of your options can go out the screen (if you play on an edge), so you'll lose fire power.

* Indeed Power Shot is "hold C & tap A as fast as possible", and you can use it on PS2 without A+.

* Maniac is not really easier, let's say it's another kind of difficulty... Arrange PS2 is based on Maniac patterns indeed but with more bullets, an easier system (no skyrocket) and the TLB. I don't know wether there's a rank or not in Arrange PS2...

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Much appreciated.

[Hydeux]

My pleasure !
And as I see you are in Ontario, Canada, I think you may speak French, and we have on our French forum a tutorial for Mushi, and even one for Mushi Arrange PS2.

Is there anyone around here to explain the differences between Arrange PS2 and Arrange 360 ? ('still waiting for my 360 game...)

[DrTrouserPlank]

I've read the original posts several times and I can't make any sense of it.

I'm playing on the 360.

For maniac/ultra what am I supposed to do in order to score? other than keeping a "chain" am I just supposed to shoot everything with rapid full-auto (RT)? What about holding Rapid full auto + shot (RT+A) because I like to use that to slow my craft down during tough patterns when just holding RT is too twitchy.

Is there just a simple way of saying what I'm supposed to be shooting with, because all this rapid fire, shot, full-auto nonsense is really confusing and I don't really care about it if it's pretty much redundant for scoring.

[Travellinman]

Now that the 360 version is out, I have exactly the same need:

I need someone, explaining the meaning and difference between

* Rapid Fire
* Full Auto
* Rapid Full Auto

Although I did carefully read the original posts I don't get it. And this is not the first Cave game I am playing..

Your help is greatly appreciated!

Cheers,
Trav

[BulletMagnet]

I'm not a Mushi expert, but I'll give it a try:

Rapid Fire: "Standard" autofire.

Full Auto: A special type of autofire that mimics manual button presses at specific intervals, which are used for the "counter banking" scoring technique (check elsewhere for details; basically, against certain enemies if you tap and let go of Shot in a certain manner you can jack up the main multiplier very quickly). Started as a cabinet hack; obviously makes scoring easier when you just have to hold down the button instead of time your presses, but some players prefer to do it manually, hence the separate score tables in the HS thread for Mushi.

Rapid Full Auto: Presumably the same idea as Full Auto, except that you don't slow down at all when the button is pressed (not 100% sure on this one, as I don't use Full Auto myself, someone will have to check me on this one).

Hopefully that gives you a basic idea, anyways - sorry in advance for any errors.

[Sapz]

Sorry man, that's not quite it.

Full Auto is the C button - the game's original, hard-coded autofire button.
Rapid Shot simulates tapping the A button in short intervals (i.e. A button with an autofire setup) - the advantage of this is being able to hold C (Full Auto) and Rapid Shot for the 'powershot' in Mushi 1.0, which gives additional firepower amongst other things.
Rapid Full Auto simulates tapping the C button in short intervals - the main advantage of this is that it's usually short enough that your options don't fire at all, which is useful for keeping enemies alive to preserve chains.

[daliscar]

Rapid Full Auto simulates tapping the C button in short intervals - the main advantage of this is that it's usually short enough that your options don't fire at all, which is useful for keeping enemies alive to preserve chains.

And when you switch to this, the counters previously accumulated by your option fire are "banked" into your main counter greatly increasing it.
This is the heart of Mushihimesama scoring but unfortunately there's no real indication onscreen of what's going on apart from rapidly changing strings of numbers making it hard to work out what you've done and making this one of CAVE's most frustrating and obscure scoring systems.
I've always had a lot more fun playing Original mode on PS2 which doesn't involve this hard-to-see complexity.

[Travellinman]

Thank all of you for trying again to clarify things - however, this actually is quite confusing.

Regarding the difference between Original Mode and Maniac/Ultra Mode: Is it true that this main/parent counter and banking scoring mechanism is ony existing in the latter two modes?

What then about the growing numbers which appear around your character in Original mode? I thought this was the main counter - but it isn't??

[BulletMagnet]

Thanks to the above posters for fixing that, I was apparently rather confuzzled. This one, however, I think I know:

What then about the growing numbers which appear around your character in Original mode? I thought this was the main counter - but it isn't??

If memory serves that just keeps count of how many pieces of amber/gold/whatever it is that you've collected...not sure if the point value grows as you collect more or anything like that.

[DrTrouserPlank]

I still don't really get it.

Simply, what are you meant to kill things with in order to make the counter climb fastest? From what I'm reading it is rapid shot.

[Travellinman]

Where is the "Main counter" in Original mode ???

[BulletMagnet]

Where is the "Main counter" in Original mode ???

There isn't one: all that tapping/counter stuff only applies to Maniac and Ultra modes. In Original all you really need to do is kill things and collect shiny stuff (and attack up close in 1.5 to get more shiny stuff).

[daliscar]

In Original all you really need to do is kill things and collect shiny stuff (and attack up close in 1.5 to get more shiny stuff).

Original mode is such a relief!
Do we all agree that the "counter banking" system without any visual cues is a bit too obscure and makes scoreplay a drag, or is it just me?
I know Espgaluda II gets critiscised for an overcomplex system but at least with that you can see what's going on, but with Mushimesama it feels like the really important mechanics are invisible.

[Travellinman]

Where is the "Main counter" in Original mode ???

There isn't one: all that tapping/counter stuff only applies to Maniac and Ultra modes. In Original all you really need to do is kill things and collect shiny stuff (and attack up close in 1.5 to get more shiny stuff).

Thanks for clarifying this.

[kawaijb]

Hello guys.

I need some help. About thé number of option lost when you lost a life in 1.5. I train in no miss mode,and i loose 2 options when i die and i revive with 0 options. But i see vids where they revive with already 2 options so that they always have their 4 options...is it related to the no miss mode?

[Sapz]

I believe the problem is that the training mode is faulty - in the real game, you should be keeping your options as you described.

[kawaijb]

an other issue, concerning the skyrocket on mid boss 4 (and maybe on mid boss 5).

In training, the skyrocket pattern gives me 2 million counter, BUT during a real run (where i always have lost at least 1 life before somewhere), the perfect pattern gives me only 1 million...I have no clue about this fact, timing are the same, the mid boss dies at the same time...

In fact, it begins at the beginning of the stage 4, the counter is not increasing the same than in training. (I've tried to change the difficulty in training "no miss" or "default", but always 2 million counter).

I'm trying to get a run with no miss until this mid boss to see if it's the same...

Edit: it concerns maniac 1.5, the skyrocket are performed with rapid fire, this issue does not concern stage 2 & 3 (where it's the same in training or real run whatever the number of life lost before)

[Erppo]

In training, the skyrocket pattern gives me 2 million counter, BUT during a real run (where i always have lost at least 1 life before somewhere), the perfect pattern gives me only 1 million...I have no clue about this fact, timing are the same, the mid boss dies at the same time...

I had this exact same problem (with the exact same counter values even) when I tried the game. That was the main reason I got tired of it since I couldn't figure out how it works exactly. Same problem with the stage 5 midboss too.

[kawaijb]

Ok, it depends on the number of bombs in stock...
I don't know if it is normal or not, does it occur on PCB?

3 bombs seems to give a normal counter, 4 and more a high counter, less than 3 a low counter. True for every stage...

[Erppo]

Ok, it depends on the number of bombs in stock...
I don't know if it is normal or not, does it occur on PCB?

3 bombs seems to give a normal counter, 4 and more a high counter, less than 3 a low counter. True for every stage...

Ah, I managed to miss this. Thanks for finding it out, I might go back to the game when I'm not busy with STGT anymore. Does normal Mushi work this way too or is this only with 1.5?

[Special World]

Anybody have tips for what the best A+ and C+ settings are for the 360 port?

I'm gonna mess around in training and see if there's a certain number that's... um... the last number for A+ that will break the parent counter escalation. Like, if I were to shoot any faster, the counter wouldn't break and I wouldn't get the +200 hit bonus. I haven't really tried it out yet so I don't know that there *is* a setting like that, though I also don't know if that's really optimal either.

I have no idea what to do for C+. TBH the whole scoring system is so esoteric and hard to wrap my head around that I have no idea what to set A+ and C+ to, and when exactly to use them. Do you want to constantly A+ on bosses to keep jacking everything up, or do you just want to do that toward the end? And do you want to C+ smaller enemies?

It boggles the mind.

ED: Ok. Deep breath. From reading the topic, here's what seems to be the general rules with A+ and C+. Please correct me if I'm wrong:

A+: Useful on bosses and large enemies to break the parent counter for a split second, then resume attack to get +200 to the parent counter.
- According to EOJ, this is actually not a straight +200 but the game adding the child/laser counters to the parents counter. Which would make me wonder what the point of using C+ on bosses would be.

C+: Unsure about this. Apparently useful on bosses to bank child counters, but how do you do this? Do you use A+ for most of the battle to raise parent counter and child counters, then use C+ during the last segment to bank child counters and rocket your score? Or is it used more generally on bosses?
- Also seems to be used on smaller enemies, unless that's just normal C? I'm really not sure what application C+ would have during regular gameplay, tbh. Unless you set it so that it would barely stagger, killing enemies more slowly without breaking your chain. That way you'd have more leniency between enemies.

A+ and C: Used to increase shot power, letting you kill bosses faster. But possibly isn't as good for your chain as just A+ is?

Let me know if those are incorrect, incomplete, or just don't give the right impression at all. I also have no idea what to do about autofire settings, since it varies based on proximity. So I'll probably just set them to random shit and see what happens :\

[Hydeux]

It's also something I'd like to know.
I don't really care about scoring but knowing the MOST POWERFUL A+/C+ settings for the power-shot could make things easier.

[Erppo]

I believe the default rate the game gives for A+ is ideal for the power shot. At least it lets you do all the tricks you see good players do. C+ for the counter boosting is more complicated since the ideal rate you want for that depends on the distance to the target. A delay of 2 gives the highest boost but you need to be right next to the target for that to work. You may want to set it to something lower for the parts where it's not possible to get that close instead.

Watch this video after you've read how the system works. It's probably the best demonstration of it in action available.

[Special World]

I believe the default rate the game gives for A+ is ideal for the power shot. At least it lets you do all the tricks you see good players do. C+ for the counter boosting is more complicated since the ideal rate you want for that depends on the distance to the target. A delay of 2 gives the highest boost but you need to be right next to the target for that to work. You may want to set it to something lower for the parts where it's not possible to get that close instead.

Watch this video after you've read how the system works. It's probably the best demonstration of it in action available.

I have watched it, and it's very helpful. From rewatching a segment of it, it seems like the typical way of working bosses is to use A+ most of the time, but use C+ anytime right before a boss "explodes." Does that sound right? I'm still not sure why that is. Is A+ building up the laser counters and parent counter, and then C+ using those final moments to add the built up laser counters to the overall counter? How does a player know how much time to devote to C+? For example, if a player had the proper foresight to always be able to C+ the exact instant before a boss explodes, would he always do that? Or would he want to take a little time beforehand to work those child counters into the overall counter?

Sorry if my terminology is mixed up or anything. This is all very abstract.

[Erppo]

From rewatching a segment of it, it seems like the typical way of working bosses is to use A+ most of the time, but use C+ anytime right before a boss "explodes." Does that sound right? I'm still not sure why that is. Is A+ building up the laser counters and parent counter, and then C+ using those final moments to add the built up laser counters to the overall counter? How does a player know how much time to devote to C+? For example, if a player had the proper foresight to always be able to C+ the exact instant before a boss explodes, would he always do that? Or would he want to take a little time beforehand to work those child counters into the overall counter?

That's pretty much how it works. The idea behind it is that the laser counters continue to increase while doing the A tapping, but the C+ technique will make them decrease rapidly. That means you need to find a good balance between the time you use to raise the counters with the slow A tapping and expending them with C+. If you use A for too long, you will waste some potential gain since that technique is worth less, and doing it too little means you don't have enough value in the laser counters for the C+ to be worth it.

Abusing the midbosses like that is the most important key for good scores. This technique can also be used with the bushes in stage 2, and all the large bug parts in stage 3, though I know very little of scoring in that stage.

[Special World]

When you say I may want to set delay to 2 but may want to set it to something lower, does that actually mean I want to set "interval" to a higher number or what?

Also, what do you guys have for your controller layout in this? I have two rows of four buttons. I was going to make the bottom (primary) row A+, bomb, C+ and the top (secondary) row A, bomb, C. But the game won't let me program two bomb buttons. Are A+ and C+ more important than A and C?

[Erppo]

When you say I may want to set delay to 2 but may want to set it to something lower, does that actually mean I want to set "interval" to a higher number or what?

Yeah, sorry I don't remember what the game calls those. In any case the first number means how many frames the shot is pressed and the other one means how many frames it's not pressed after that until the cycle repeats. The second one should be 2 for the point blank C+, and a bigger number for more distance. Something in the range of 8-16 is probably a good lower rate. I always kept the first number in 1 with the C+.

My layout probaly doesn't interest anyone since I always use a non-standard layout, but I had:

Code: Select all

A  C  B
A+ C+

[ninn]

Haven't seen these points so far:

1) Looks to me, that you start maniac with a slightly powered up weapon. In Original Mode you struggle to keep a constant stream, where as in Maniac you have fatter shot and constant stream from the start.

2) The Bomb-Bar vanishes while a boss(healthbar) is on screen. Took me ages to find out why I am seeing just half of my bomb-bar.

3) SOUNDS like I can hit enemies, BEFORE they enter the screen. Since the shadows of the insects are to the south, they pop up on the playfield before the insect is on the screen. If you position yourself right, you can at least hit it - your hear the sound of a hit. No idea if you can destroy them too while they are invisible.