ST: Mushihimesama Basics, Modes & Scoring

[incognoscente]

Not really a stupid question. pixelcorps (and maybe some others?) expressed some concerns over the bullets as well.

As far as I've been able to tell, there are no major problems with the hit detection and there are no special factors of time, etc. in action.

Your hitbox is miniscule in this game (I don't have a capture device to properly rate how many pixels--I'd estimate ~9 (3x3) or less). Many of the bullets' hitboxes are only in the very center of their graphics, meaning there are sometimes only ~8 pixels of a 16x16 bullet that can actually harm you.

This is one of the topics listed for discussion in the Mushihimesama General Discussion thread, but nothing concrete has been posted yet (same as this post here from me :) ).

[laurie47]

This may be covering old ground a bit but after reading through the thread a few times im still a bit confused.

The auto fire settings make my head hurt, is this right;
You fly around chaining with A+ set at whatever, The point to make the enemy think that every hit is a first hit, I think this works for me as the parent counter flashes red every second or two.
The options push up child counters on large bugs which can be added to the parent by pushing C+ (does this just need a quick tap or should it be used till the bug dies or changes)

And I cant work out why my score is much higher when I dont use any rapid or full auto, Just A and bomb.

Love the forum:)
And this game.

[laurie47]

Been trying the rapid settings some more and just cant get it to work, I seem to have very low scores with rapid. Any ideas what im doing wrong?

[EOJ]

Just saw on this page http://esprade.hp.infoseek.co.jp/hiscore.htm
there has been a new Japanese high score in Maniac without rapid fire (the old one was 901 million):

DAFUTO - 982,093,637 no rapid fire

I wonder if a billion is possible? But the real question is how the heck is this guy getting such high scores without rapid fire?

[incognoscente]

edit: nearly forgot about this post by DEL.

laurie47: to preface, most of my time is spent in Ultra mode, so DEL or others could probably give better information specific to (I'm assuming) Maniac mode.


[For the next two paragraphs: I don't typically get as far into the game as DEL does, so make sure you read his post, too. Hell, you can even skip the next two paragraphs--I won't be upset :)]
I do not use A+ (Rapid Shot) for trying to chain a stage. A+ alone can be used possibly for banking, but I haven't attempted it much. Instead, I set A+ to integrate it into the (hold both) C and A+ 'power shot'. Shoots a bit faster than normal C, which can be better for taking down Ultra bosses and for getting higher chains in parts of stages.

For the stage itself, I use C or the C and A+ combination, with plain A added to the mix if I need to drop speed. I don't know that there is a one-size-fits-all A+ rate. I use either setting 2 or 4, but I've known others to use setting 5.

Try Stage 1 with A and/or C alone (you can switch, just try to only use one at a time). When you encounter an enemy with more-than-average hit points (like a partly buried spiny beetle, a large yellow flying beetle, or one of the grounded beetles), try switching to the C and A+ combination and see if it helps your chain climb higher.
This is just a basic exercise. From there, you'll need to experiment to see which type of shot will give the best result at each part of a stage.

When you are doing the basic chaining of a stage, you'll want your chain to climb as high and as fast as possible, so long as that doesn't remove all available enemies and cause your chain to plummet. Trying to chain a stage with a constantly flickering counter would probably kill your score (sounds like you've tried it first hand :) ).



Banking, the "First Hits Theory", etc. are related more to the skyrocketing trick.

The advanced banking is only possible when you have at least one option/child beetle and even then, most don't consider it necessary (or possible?) on bosses. Banking is best used on stage enemies or fixtures with many hitpoints (midbosses, Stage 3 head containing the 1-up, etc.). At these places, you'll want to build the smaller counters for your options (child counters) to a good value, then make the main counter flicker red.
Holding C+ (setting 2 recommended) is a good way to do this and the Stage 2 midboss is a good place to practice.


I hope at least some of this information helps you :)


And Maniac players, please correct inaccuracies or bad advice :D

[laurie47]

Thankyou, that does help. I have a lot to practice.

[kawaijb]

yes

practise mid boss 2, C+ set at 2,
kill him first the most slowly with smashing A, lasers always on him, then at the end of the 3rd pattern of lasers shoot with C+, if your counter is more than 70000 it works

[DEL]

Here's a copy/paste from one of my posts on click stick;

PS2 Rapid Settings

I've been moosing around with various A+ settings;

A+ 15
C+ 2

A+ at 15 is good for steady A+ banking & particularly good for the ST4 Midboss. You can achieve 100,000 chain from the first half of the ST4 Midboss by simply holding the A+ 15 - That's without any C+ banking, which is risky on this Midboss.
A+ 15 also banks nicely on the ST3 wing sacks and the 1up head. It can also be used to 'steadily' A bank the ST2 and ST5 Midbosses.
^The above are the advantages of A+ 15, but it has disadvantages too:-
* The C and A+ 15 power combo is less powerful
* The C and A+ 15 power combo doesn't chain the ST2 trees as fast, or build a good ST1 chain
* A+ 15 can't hold or increase main chain during the dry sections with small enemies.

So - We try A+ at 2, 4 and 5 :-

These settings obviously destroy faster, keep chain during dry sections, chain the ST2 trees faster. But, you don't have the steady reliable A banking with these A+ settings. (However, you can use manual Slow Tap A instead).

= Its a dilemma either way, the PS2 (as far as I know) doesn't allow double assignments of rapid settings, so you just have to become adept with button switching with whatever A+ setting you choose, be it fast Hz or slow.
-----------------------------------------------------

Since writing the ^above, I've kept with A+ 6 and C+ 2. I think A+ 4,5 or 6 are ok. Shame we can't configure a 5th or 6th fire button like the Japanese players have done on their arcade cabs . I'd like to have an A+ 15 available for the ST4 Midboss .

Pls look to kawaijb for Stage 3 advice; he's getting 160mil from it .

Regs, DEL

[kawaijb]

I had a 170mil on stage 3 in a run, but that f*** stage 4 mid boss doesn't want to show me the key of his last pattern

in fact, for stage 3 I do nearly the same as simmon replay, you have to delay many parts, make some links with a good position, I use the C+ on the same spots

[Jedah Doma]

I've been playing the PS2 version for a couple of days now and am getting the hang of things. Although I did have a few question:

1). Are the child and parent counters present in the normal mode of gameplay? I see them in arrange and maniac mode, but not in just normal mode.

2). I looked through the thread, and didn't see a concrete answer on what was, for sure, the best two button setup for max power and score (ex. A+ and C+, A and C, etc.) I saw good ideas, but I didn't see a clear cut answer. Either that or I'm blind, so it may be a little of both.

That's it. Just two quick questions. Thanks for the help, but for now, back to Cave goodness.

[incognoscente]

1. There are no child or parent counters in Original mode.

2. There is no concrete answer, or I might not be understanding what you're asking. :)
The C and A+ 'power' combo does the most damage, assuming a decently timed A+. For damage within this combo, I recommend A+ (Rapid Shot) settings 2 or 4. Of these two, I've noticed 4 to score marginally better in Maniac mode. If you plan to play Original mode alone, try an A+ setting of 2 or 4 and use the C and A+ power combo.

Playing for score in Maniac or Ultra requires more button dancing. Some sections, as suggested by DEL in his previous post, are best dealt with using other buttons or even with other autofire settings.

For C+ banking (not applicable in Original), DEL, kawaijb, and I use a C+ (Rapid Full Auto) setting of 2. Even here, there may be situations based on distance, slowdown, etc. where another C+ setting would work better.


I hope that didn't simply repeat what you already knew.


edit: fixed spelling of kawaijb's name (sorry!)

[Icarus]

For C+ banking (not applicable in Original), DEL, kawajib, and I use a C+ (Rapid Full Auto) setting of 2. Even here, there may be situations based on distance, slowdown, etc. where another C+ setting would work better.

In some Japanese cabs they have two C+ buttons set to different frequencies. Although the actual preferred frequencies depend on the player, it is accepted that you need one fast frequency for "burst" firing, something that looks like this:

>> ------------------------------------

(Sorry, I had to use a different colour to simulate the gaps in the example firing pattern, but you get the idea ^_^;; )

This is used for long distance banking, as you'd need the parent counter sustained for a longer period before the next gap in the firing pattern. The other C+ button needs to be set to a lower frequency, for closer ranged banking, like this:

>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Since the distance is closer, you don't need as long a gap inbetween each burst, so you can bank the counters a bit faster.

However, as you know, the PS2 port does not allow you to set multiple C+ frequencies, as the setting is global and affects all buttons set with RAPID FULLAUTO. Therefore, it is best to try and find something inbetween the frequencies which will give you the best of both worlds, or you might have to change your strategy to accomodate your chosen frequency.

[freddiebamboo]

Yeah I've wondered why they haven't put in that option for multiple C+ settings
Is anyone getting any joy with this;

TAP A AND C SIMULTANEOUSLY - Counter Banking
This is an advanced technique for scoring that will be discussed in the relevant section. In short, by tapping A and C simultaneously, you cause Reko to fire a single burst of Shot but without her Options' lasers firing. What this does is it causes any child counters on the enemy you're attacking to be added to it's parent counter, greatly increasing your chaining multiplier.

Any time Reko fires in this manner, child counters will be banked. Tapping A and C together works best for non-hardware autofire assisted setups, but for hardware-assisted setups, all you require is the C+ button.

It would seem a useful skill to have due to the limited range of the C+. I imagine it is easier to achieve at distance rather than close range - but my own results are very random.

[MrMonkeyMan]

All you need is to tap C to bank your counters. Not sure why everyone's tapping both.

[Jedah Doma]

1. There are no child or parent counters in Original mode.

2. There is no concrete answer, or I might not be understanding what you're asking.
The C and A+ 'power' combo does the most damage, assuming a decently timed A+. For damage within this combo, I recommend A+ (Rapid Shot) settings 2 or 4. Of these two, I've noticed 4 to score marginally better in Maniac mode. If you plan to play Original mode alone, try an A+ setting of 2 or 4 and use the C and A+ power combo.

Playing for score in Maniac or Ultra requires more button dancing. Some sections, as suggested by DEL in his previous post, are best dealt with using other buttons or even with other autofire settings.

For C+ banking (not applicable in Original), DEL, kawajib, and I use a C+ (Rapid Full Auto) setting of 2. Even here, there may be situations based on distance, slowdown, etc. where another C+ setting would work better.


I hope that didn't simply repeat what you already knew.

Actually that was a very good answer to both questions, especially the latter. I just needed a bit more of a setting description (1-20) on what frequency I should use. I'll give it a try and see how it goes. Thanks for the advice.

[freddiebamboo]

Oh, I just thought tapping C get the things alive longer and A and C did the banking thing

I suppose this makes things easier - never been a fan of double button presses anyway

[kawaijb]

jedah doma

set the C+ at 2 for 10Hz and "mid-close" skyrocket

set the A+ at 4 (12Hz) for powerful shot by holding C and A+, but that's will not allow the A banking, so do it yourself it's quiet possible

[Jedah Doma]

jedah doma

set the C+ at 2 for 10Hz and "mid-close" skyrocket

set the A+ at 4 (12Hz) for powerful shot by holding C and A+, but that's will not allow the A banking, so do it yourself it's quiet possible

Thanks so much for the help. My understanding of the system of this game is getting better daily. I just really love this game. For some reason, I'm liking it better then DDP:DOJ. I think it's because of a little more intracate scoring system, and the Gradius type options. Well, back to more playing at the A+ 2 and C+ 2 settings. I think we're getting closer to a better answer, but as others have said, I'm not sure if any answer will be concrete as some players play differently.

[kawaijb]

YES!

I found a way to skyrocket safely the mid boss 4

It took me a lot of time, first I wanted to do the same as simmon, but that's too hard

I can get 120000 counter after him, then keeping it is hard...

first I tap A from the bottom of the screen, with the "cross" pattern I move a little forward for A banking, then I go near him, making "up and down" with the C+, and I kill it after the 7th spread (simmon kill it after the 8th), this allow me to kill the last form by moving right to left without having to go back to center

I don't skyrocket the mid boss5, it's just impossible on PS2 with the C+ at 2, you need a far skyrocket...

[kawaijb]

one precision

for the last pattern of mid boss4, first go near him to the right, when he shots go back BUT not to the bottom, and go left, he'll die

[Anarchos]

One: Do you really get more points with w or is it just easier to chain with it?

Two: Are there some good superplays out there? I really want to see what good players do in order to get those high scores without rapid fire.

[freddiebamboo]

One: Do you really get more points with w or is it just easier to chain with it?

Two: Are there some good superplays out there? I really want to see what good players do in order to get those high scores without rapid fire.

W is easier to keep enemies alive longer while still sustaining a counter (by grazing the edge of your shot against non-popcorn baddies) and so allows for better scores in maniac. I think someone said W gives better scores in original, but I'm not sure - and if it does it's probably minimal. If you're playing maniac you should use W power IMO.

As for superplays, there is a dvd coming out I think, but our own mrmonkeyman has some great vids last time I checked and I'm pretty sure he doesn't use rapids.

www.mrmonkeyman.com

www.super-play.co.uk

[incognoscente]

I had to dig for my notes.


In practice, I found W-power to give a consistently higher score for Stage 1 of Original mode. Somewhere in the realm of an extra ~50,000 points (after bonuses) with slightly lower gem counters by the end of the stage.

I felt there were too many variables in the other stages to do the same testing in them. You could probably expect a similar difference in score for the other stages though.
W-power also has an easier time taking down popcorn enemies due to its spread. This can be especially helpful in Stages 4 and 5.

If aiming for score in the Original mode, my recommendation is W-power. If you're not aiming at a new record, play with the one you like :)
For Maniac or Ultra, W-power. (And now that I've said that, we'll find that the new Japanese high scores are due to M-power usage ;D )


For a higher score in Maniac or Arrange without autofire: memorize stages, chain the entire stage if possible, and be used to flying in the top area of the screen to build the counter higher before enemies start to take damage. You can't always be at the top of the screen, but practicing with that may help your score.


To my knowledge, scores of 600,000,000+ in Maniac or Ultra modes all exploit the banking trick. Some may be autofire and others may be by hand, but the result is the same.
MrMonkeyman's Arrange video has a score in this range, but child counters, and consequently banking, are handled differently between the arcade and arrange modes. As I recall, at least--I didn't spend much time in Arrange.

[Anarchos]

Thanks for the help guys. But my experience tells me that S is better when playing original because I can dodge fast bullets easier, and the bullets go really fast on later stages.

All that talk about A+, B+, C+ and different numbers on different stages makes me confused. What I want to know is if I can do something for higher scores without "hacking" the controller or change settings. As I understand it, you can manually press the normal shot button in a certain way to attain more hits, right? I'd be greatfull if someone could explain it a bit more though.

[freddiebamboo]

All that talk about A+, B+, C+ and different numbers on different stages makes me confused. What I want to know is if I can do something for higher scores without "hacking" the controller or change settings. As I understand it, you can manually press the normal shot button in a certain way to attain more hits, right? I'd be greatfull if someone could explain it a bit more though.

Tapping the shot button gives the same effect as using a rapid fire button, it just isn't as effective.

Try practising with the mid boss on stage 2 to get a handle on it. For easily seen results - attack it normally until it finishes its 2nd or 3rd pattern (haven't played in a while so can't remember exactly, you just need to wait till the child counters are high) and then start tapping the shot button faster than twice a second (ish). Your counter should boost pretty nicely. If you tap too fast you will just sustain the counter and if you tap too slow the counter will drop.

The best tactic for improving your score though is to learn how to chain stage 3.

[Rupert H]

Recently I've decided it's about time I 1CC'd this game, but unfortunately it looks like the game doesn't agree. Despite reading ICR's and EOJ's fantastic guides there are still a few points I'm unsure about. Both points concern the PS2 version on Normal mode.

1: Rank

How does rank work in this game? When I play with one life through the game to stage 3 the speed of the bullets becomes really quite ridiculous. When I use practice mode, with rank set to either "no miss" (which I assume is the rank I would be on if I got to this point without dying) or "default" I have no trouble one lifing the whole stage. Can anyone explain this? What raises/reduces rank? Do the rapid/full-auto setting affect it?

2: A+ (Rapid)/C+ (Full-auto Rapid)

I've seen plenty of detailed information pertaining to maniac/ultra mode but what are the optimum settings for just dealing as much damage as possible with no regard for score, banking, etc on Normal? As I understand, the lower the number the higher the frequency of the shots. Therefore would having A+ and C+ set to 1 and holding them both down produce the greatest damage?

Sorry if these have been covered and I'm just blind, but help would definitely be appreciated.

[incognoscente]

2. For damage, I recommend wide power, using A+4 and normal C simultaneously. This combination may not work as well if you plan to sit at the very bottom of the screen.

[ncp]

I'm 90% sure that Rank in Mushi Original is only affected by survival time, similar to Dodonpachi (and several others). So there's not much you can do about it, just try to survive.

C+ will reduce your damage. It is only used for scoring in Maniac so don't bother even binding a button to it if you're not trying to score. Set A+ to 4 like incognoscente said, and hold down C and A+ to save your fingers a lot of effort. It's mostly noticeable when point blanking but it does work to some extent from anywhere. If you use it at the bottom you can actually see your shots firing closer together than with just C. Setting A+ any faster than 4 will not really help you, and will actually pull in your options like you're holding A.

One last thing: if you just want a clear regardless of mode, if you haven't tried Maniac very much, for some people, it's easier than Original.

[Rupert H]

Thank you both for the settings advice. That's cleared up for me now. Does the same advice stand when using S shot? I think I play much better with faster movement so I'd rather stick with that.

I'm still a bit puzzled about the rank settings for practice mode as whatever I set them to, it's infinitely easier than playing the equivalent level in arcade mode.

I may take your advice on Maniac for the 1CC. I remember finding it a hell of a lot easier than Normal when I first played but thought that Normal would be easier if I practiced enough.

[incognoscente]

S-Power: A+3 with normal C.