GD: Dedicated Strategy Wiki?

For posting and requesting strategic gameplay tips on shmups!
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PROMETHEUS
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Re: GD: Dedicated Strategy Wiki?

Post by PROMETHEUS »

xybur wrote:In fact prometheus, would you like to do the ddp sections of the wiki? I know you have written so much already with your guide, but it would be a huge help to have your working on that particular portion since you know so much about it.

If anything, permission to quote what you already have written would be easy enough and I can handle that at a later date.
You can definitely quote what I've written I have zero problem with that, as for editing DDP sections myself, I'm not sure because like you said I've already written this huge guide, but depending on what particular sections you'd want to include for DDP maybe I could still be interested in writing something. I don't like describing scoring mechanics for instance. But I think you could ask Bernard Doria if he's okay with you including text from his DDP articles at beepreying, which explain most of the scoring mechanics.
Scores, replays, videos || I have written a guide about getting good at shmups. Check it out !
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devilmanozzy
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Re: GD: Dedicated Strategy Wiki?

Post by devilmanozzy »

Been down this road a few times. Seems no one has the time and dedication to give to the project. I already pointed you where you need to go.

I think tho, unless your willing to build on your own, this may end up like previous tries. The biggest issue I see is not enough people interested in helping. I know you have great ideas to build great things, you think everyone will flock to......

But lets get real here. I have been in many of the projects you listed. (look up user Devilmanozzy) I know what it takes. You have not sold me that you will do any better. Wikis that work out either have a large following and interest, or have extremely dedicated few. I don't see anyone here that has yet jumped for joy for a shmup wiki of any kind. Until two months ago, Shmupswiki was in perfect shape, but dead. It had been looking good for some time and was still being ignored. Expect no one to help you. You will be on your own.

Whats your wiki background? How many wikis have you worked on? I've worked on now a good 15 wikis with over 200 edits(per wiki) by me. This thread itself is a repeat of ..... http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=28553

Let me Quote myself from that thread....
devilmanozzy wrote:I can't help but laugh at yet another try are starting a wiki on shmups. Why don't you just work with one of them out there? why Restart? Personally the problem I've found isn't the information, its the lack of support after a month online. People got mad at me and another user for copying information at wikipedia but simply put its not easy to build a aimless empire. Talk i've heard greatly over the last year over this, and http://shmup.wikia.com has never really gotten the care it should have. People on wikia instead all have built up wikis on different series such as Gradius, Darius, Touhou, and soon to be added R-type and Raiden. I'd also conclude that out of the wikis listed here, there are 5 active users at them. Why waste your time starting another wiki when people are doing better elsewhere? If this is a control issue, I can very easy tell you, that this wont get far. People don't like being told exactly what can and can't be done at a wiki. With the list of rules your adding, there wont be any interest by the time the front page is started. Basically if you don't loosen the rules, your not get any results. People add things to wiki's because they love the subject matter. Too many rules will turn them away.

I've been at wikia over a year, and it takes more than a vision to get a great wiki. You need lots of support and time to it. I've spent endless hours working on Darius wiki over the last 2 months, and only now am I getting hits.
You know what really annoys me is the same people are telling you to go for it as previous tries. Read your back history on this xybur. The truth SUCKS.
AVGN wrote:This game is so hard; it would actually be easier to go outside in a thunderstorm and try to dodge rain
http://shmups.co.uk/<- The new url of shmupswiki.com
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xybur
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Re: GD: Dedicated Strategy Wiki?

Post by xybur »

Oh I have, and I decided upon using the first wiki listed in your signature. It doesn't make sense to reinvent the wheel. You should read the rest of the thread, haha.
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Sumez
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Re: GD: Dedicated Strategy Wiki?

Post by Sumez »

I've given some thought to all this and it's curious how it's often a real hassle finding good strategy guides for shmups. GameFAQs will help you some of the way, but more often I do a google search for st: (game name) site:shmups.system11.org - I've done this for years upon years, long before actually creating a user in here.

Some times there are some really good guides here, some times you need to mix information from various sources, and some times you need to scour all the discussions in the related thread in order to figure out certain details (for example, holding down the Kakusei button in Esp2 while the gold counter is at 0 in order to switch directly from Kakusei to Zesshikkai when absorbing the first batch of gold).
Also, most of these guides seriously need to be easier to get an overview of, more graphics could eliminate a lot of the text used to describe simple concepts in an overly complicated way (ie. some very simple systems like DeathSmiles and ProGear sound extremely confusing on paper), also more charts, index overviews, and why not add some more walkthroughs of stages explaning some of the expert tricks you'd normally have to view a number of superplays in order to figure out.


So, to sum it up, I'm considering developing a site devoted entirely to this purpose. I'm an experienced web developer and have a bunch of standard systems I could easily use to set up a completely custom designed system intended for this purpose alone (unlike a Wiki which is a very general solution).
So what you'd have is a dedicated page for each covered game, various sections explaining score system, expert tricks & pro-tips, secrets (like 1ups, etc.) and and actual walkthrough, links to superplays etc.
The purpose would be to sum up data gathered from guides and discussions in here, various wikis, reviews and official strategy guides.

Setting up and designing something like that would be easy to me, but what I don't have is expertise in the games. I can parse data from this forum, etc. (with everyone's permission, of course, and giving credit where it's due), but I won't be able to tell you the best way to play each stage for maximum score, so if anyone is willing to team up, we could make this happen.


And if something like this already exists and I'm moving in on someone else's territory just let me know, maybe they could use some help? :)
Sorry for hijacking your thread, xybur.
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xybur
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Re: GD: Dedicated Strategy Wiki?

Post by xybur »

I considered a site but for the reasons you stated, I decided a wiki would be easier because... well, a wiki is easier. It doesn't require any money if you use free resources, it doesn't require any huge amount of web design, and using an already established site means theoretically no hosting costs (for us anyway, not for the host).

If you want to do a dedicated site, I'll still do what I'm doing on the wiki and you have my permission to pull the whatever stuff I compile. I haven't had time lately to do anything, but I will in the coming days since I have some free time.

I thought the idea of a "gamefaqs for shmups" is great but it was a bit way more ambitious than what I am capable of doing, and a wiki allows easily other like minded people to contribute (and edit) as necessary.
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mjclark
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Re: GD: Dedicated Strategy Wiki?

Post by mjclark »

Blah blah blah blah blah wiki blah blah blah blah blah website blah blah blah blah blah- just show me the money
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Sumez
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Re: GD: Dedicated Strategy Wiki?

Post by Sumez »

xybur wrote:I considered a site but for the reasons you stated, I decided a wiki would be easier because... well, a wiki is easier. It doesn't require any money if you use free resources, it doesn't require any huge amount of web design, and using an already established site means theoretically no hosting costs (for us anyway, not for the host).
I have a pretty cheap webhotel that I'm already using for a billion other purposes. A site like this wouldn't require much traffic or data space, so it wouldn't mean any expenses.

I'm generally against using banner ads and the likes to finance websites other than major ones (like gamespot, whatever), so I'd do this for free out of interest, obviously.
If I get around to making something I'll get back to you :)
dieKatze88
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Re: GD: Dedicated Strategy Wiki?

Post by dieKatze88 »

I've been working over at: http://shmupswiki.com/ on what I know too much about (Otomedius) and I was wondering what the chances are of us getting youtube embeds over there?

I used:

Code: Select all

 {video:youtube|<youtubeIDHere>} 
Which I found by googling
However, It did not work. If we want to embed strategy videos we're probably going to need youtube embedding, or a method of hosting our own video services that supports HD, which would be disk-space-restrictive.

Am I doing it wrong, or do we just not support it?
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devilmanozzy
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Re: GD: Dedicated Strategy Wiki?

Post by devilmanozzy »

dieKatze88 wrote:I've been working over at: http://shmupswiki.com/ on what I know too much about (Otomedius) and I was wondering what the chances are of us getting youtube embeds over there?

I used:

Code: Select all

 {video:youtube|<youtubeIDHere>} 
Which I found by googling
However, It did not work. If we want to embed strategy videos we're probably going to need youtube embedding, or a method of hosting our own video services that supports HD, which would be disk-space-restrictive.

Am I doing it wrong, or do we just not support it?
We don't support it currently. As noted in this thread, we really need a new version of Wikimedia.
AVGN wrote:This game is so hard; it would actually be easier to go outside in a thunderstorm and try to dodge rain
http://shmups.co.uk/<- The new url of shmupswiki.com
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DJ Incompetent
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Re: GD: Dedicated Strategy Wiki?

Post by DJ Incompetent »

Mediawiki? Oh god there isn't a competing format is there?


Serious about the new version?

Hmmm, I probably need to learn something-something about adding capchas and email verifications to the registration huh. Damn that's a lotta spambots.
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Sumez
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Re: GD: Dedicated Strategy Wiki?

Post by Sumez »

Mediawiki is the source code Wikipedia is running, it's not a "competing format".
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DJ Incompetent
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Re: GD: Dedicated Strategy Wiki?

Post by DJ Incompetent »

Naw, devilmanozzy said 'Wikimedia' and I was hoping he just meant 'Mediawiki'. devilmanozzy knows his shit, so I wouldn't be surprised if there were two formats of the same thing.

I wonder if mediawiki could be rigged to read its member list directly from the shmups forum member list and just lock up signups in mediawiki. What would that feature be called? That would probably solve all the spam problems and use the existing moderator team twice.

What are the chances system11 'n ghegs agree to help with that? 0.0001%?
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Sumez
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Re: GD: Dedicated Strategy Wiki?

Post by Sumez »

Mediawiki is the source for Wikipedia and all the sites sharing its code, including all the other Wiki's run by the Wikimedia foundation.

It's all part of the same ball of yarn. :)
Also, confusing the names "Wikimedia" and "Mediawiki" is pretty common.

http://www.wikimedia.org/
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DJ Incompetent
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Re: GD: Dedicated Strategy Wiki?

Post by DJ Incompetent »

Ah. Well then.
The more I know.
Thanks.
dieKatze88
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Re: GD: Dedicated Strategy Wiki?

Post by dieKatze88 »

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DJ Incompetent
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Re: GD: Dedicated Strategy Wiki?

Post by DJ Incompetent »

dieKatze88 wrote:http://shmupswiki.com/index.php5?title= ... entChanges

This is still a large problem.
yep. That's what I was sayin' over here:
I wonder if mediawiki could be rigged to read its member list directly from the shmups forum member list and just lock up signups in mediawiki. What would that feature be called? That would probably solve all the spam problems and use the existing moderator team twice.

What are the chances system11 'n ghegs agree to help with that? 0.0001%?
Plan C if they decline is to go down this list one by one and learn how to put these things in. Sad times for a web janitor.

But yeah. 'Definitely can't move forward until shmupswiki can prove it can remain a blank slate when I disappear here and there.
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Ghegs
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Re: GD: Dedicated Strategy Wiki?

Post by Ghegs »

DJ Incompetent wrote:What are the chances system11 'n ghegs agree to help with that? 0.0001%?
I don't have server access of that level, so I'm out automatically.
No matter how good a game is, somebody will always hate it. No matter how bad a game is, somebody will always love it.

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dieKatze88
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Re: GD: Dedicated Strategy Wiki?

Post by dieKatze88 »

Well I've still been working on the Otomedius articles because its what I do, Its just taking forever. I'd just like to put those articles in an environment that they're less likely to get blown to bits by some spammer rewriting pages outright.
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Sumez
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Re: GD: Dedicated Strategy Wiki?

Post by Sumez »

dieKatze88 wrote:Well I've still been working on the Otomedius articles because its what I do, Its just taking forever. I'd just like to put those articles in an environment that they're less likely to get blown to bits by some spammer rewriting pages outright.
As stated further up, I've been working on some code (from scratch) for a site devoted entirely to Shmup strategies, though it's taking its time, and I'm still unsure about the future of the site, it entirely depends on whether there's actually an interest (did receive an enthusiastic and helpful response from m3tall1ca - sorry for not responding, I'm gonna get back to you when/if I get any further with this project :))
Basically I'm doing it as a hobby because I enjoy experimenting with what I can do with PHP and Javascript, but if there's an interest in a more controlled and dedicated environment, I'll definitely devote some more time to it. :)
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devilmanozzy
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Re: GD: Dedicated Strategy Wiki?

Post by devilmanozzy »

DJ Incompetent wrote:Naw, devilmanozzy said 'Wikimedia' and I was hoping he just meant 'Mediawiki'. devilmanozzy knows his shit, so I wouldn't be surprised if there were two formats of the same thing.

I wonder if mediawiki could be rigged to read its member list directly from the shmups forum member list and just lock up signups in mediawiki. What would that feature be called? That would probably solve all the spam problems and use the existing moderator team twice.

What are the chances system11 'n ghegs agree to help with that? 0.0001%?

My Bad DJ Incompetent. I meant Mediawiki.

We need to find out how many of us still want this, and then we're have to do a lot of research on the versions of Mediawiki. We have 5.0 I think, and they are currently on like 15 or something. Mediawiki is used by most wiki places and wiki farms. Wikia is based on it, as is also Wikipedia. I see three people here, besides me seriously interested in saving the project. So I'll go clean out the spam at ShmupsWiki and try to get a little control over there.
AVGN wrote:This game is so hard; it would actually be easier to go outside in a thunderstorm and try to dodge rain
http://shmups.co.uk/<- The new url of shmupswiki.com
dieKatze88
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Re: GD: Dedicated Strategy Wiki?

Post by dieKatze88 »

devilmanozzy wrote:
DJ Incompetent wrote:Naw, devilmanozzy said 'Wikimedia' and I was hoping he just meant 'Mediawiki'. devilmanozzy knows his shit, so I wouldn't be surprised if there were two formats of the same thing.

I wonder if mediawiki could be rigged to read its member list directly from the shmups forum member list and just lock up signups in mediawiki. What would that feature be called? That would probably solve all the spam problems and use the existing moderator team twice.

What are the chances system11 'n ghegs agree to help with that? 0.0001%?

My Bad DJ Incompetent. I meant Mediawiki.

We need to find out how many of us still want this, and then we're have to do a lot of research on the versions of Mediawiki. We have 5.0 I think, and they are currently on like 15 or something. Mediawiki is used by most wiki places and wiki farms. Wikia is based on it, as is also Wikipedia. I see three people here, besides me seriously interested in saving the project. So I'll go clean out the spam at ShmupsWiki and try to get a little control over there.
<3

Thank you!
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devilmanozzy
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Re: GD: Dedicated Strategy Wiki?

Post by devilmanozzy »

Added:
-Extension:TitleBlacklist
-Extension:SpamBlacklist‎

However, still trying to get either to do anything. They are said to be able to work with our version of mediawiki software. They have been added to LocalSettings.php. So at this point I'm waiting to see if it updates. This is a new thing for me. But we are moving forward.
AVGN wrote:This game is so hard; it would actually be easier to go outside in a thunderstorm and try to dodge rain
http://shmups.co.uk/<- The new url of shmupswiki.com
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devilmanozzy
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Re: GD: Dedicated Strategy Wiki?

Post by devilmanozzy »

dieKatze88 wrote:I've been working over at: http://shmupswiki.com/ on what I know too much about (Otomedius) and I was wondering what the chances are of us getting youtube embeds over there?

I used:

Code: Select all

 {video:youtube|<youtubeIDHere>} 
Which I found by googling
However, It did not work. If we want to embed strategy videos we're probably going to need youtube embedding, or a method of hosting our own video services that supports HD, which would be disk-space-restrictive.

Am I doing it wrong, or do we just not support it?

Now..... I think I basically support the idea.....
http://shmups.co.uk/index.php5?title=User:Devilmanozzy -Scroll down to the bottom of my user page and you will now see the Darius Burst Preview Vid....

Found info on this at http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension ... 8Iubito%29

Anyways the coding to use a youtube vid on http://shmupswiki.com/ is
<youtube>l7dN6giYFo0</youtube>
That took me 10 minutes to get the wiki to play youtube vids, which is a pretty surprisingly short time to get it set up. I've spent hours on the spam/blocking thing on the other hand.

We BTW are at version 1.15.0 which is isn't bad. http://shmups.co.uk/index.php5?title=Special:Version <-Explains all info on wiki including Extensions we have. If you know of a extension we should get, post a url to where info on the extension is and I'll look into adding it. Anyways.
AVGN wrote:This game is so hard; it would actually be easier to go outside in a thunderstorm and try to dodge rain
http://shmups.co.uk/<- The new url of shmupswiki.com
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devilmanozzy
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Re: GD: Dedicated Strategy Wiki?

Post by devilmanozzy »

DJ Incompetent wrote:
dieKatze88 wrote:http://shmupswiki.com/index.php5?title= ... entChanges

This is still a large problem.
yep. That's what I was sayin' over here:
I wonder if mediawiki could be rigged to read its member list directly from the shmups forum member list and just lock up signups in mediawiki. What would that feature be called? That would probably solve all the spam problems and use the existing moderator team twice.

What are the chances system11 'n ghegs agree to help with that? 0.0001%?
Plan C if they decline is to go down this list one by one and learn how to put these things in. Sad times for a web janitor.

But yeah. 'Definitely can't move forward until shmupswiki can prove it can remain a blank slate when I disappear here and there.

Good news, as of last night I have noticed that we may have given the spammers a new wall. Note, I don't think this means party hard the spammers are dead. I noticed out of all the spam pages I deleted that a few in March look very none bot, meaning someone actually scoped us out and improved based on it. So the best advice is always maintain the wiki and never let a spammer have his way even for a day. They see unprotected wikis and have a field day posting links on them.

Anyways I see dieKatze88 has been there adding content, and thats about it. As far as the perspective on the Wiki, and direction, there are now 3 threads counting this one. If a Mod like say Ghegs or BulletMagnet sees this, please just make them one thread with "shmups.co.uk > now "The official ShmupsWiki.com project" :)" as the title. It is clear people are repeating history here, and they need to read the whole thing.

Merge this thread "GD: Dedicated Strategy Wiki?" and "Shmupswiki Xenocide Restoration Project: Tagging & T.Derail" into "shmups.co.uk > now "The official ShmupsWiki.com project" :)" . Thank You!
AVGN wrote:This game is so hard; it would actually be easier to go outside in a thunderstorm and try to dodge rain
http://shmups.co.uk/<- The new url of shmupswiki.com
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incognoscente
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Re: GD: Dedicated Strategy Wiki?

Post by incognoscente »

Syntax error: file "this" not found.
Syntax error: file "thread" not found.
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devilmanozzy
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Re: GD: Dedicated Strategy Wiki?

Post by devilmanozzy »

incognoscente wrote:Syntax error: file "this" not found.
Syntax error: file "thread" not found.
Sigh. Thanks for trying.
AVGN wrote:This game is so hard; it would actually be easier to go outside in a thunderstorm and try to dodge rain
http://shmups.co.uk/<- The new url of shmupswiki.com
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devilmanozzy
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Re: GD: Dedicated Strategy Wiki?

Post by devilmanozzy »

I hope new users will know a cat from a dog, cause that is what you need to know in order to sign up a new account at SHMUPS Wiki. I hope this will derail the spambots that have been destroying the wiki the last 2 years.

Anyways, while waiting to see what the spammers will do, if indeed we have the spambots confused, I can then focus on getting wiki templates made. :lol:

Image
AVGN wrote:This game is so hard; it would actually be easier to go outside in a thunderstorm and try to dodge rain
http://shmups.co.uk/<- The new url of shmupswiki.com
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StarCreator
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Re: GD: Dedicated Strategy Wiki?

Post by StarCreator »

I can't help but be reminded of this:

Image
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Aguraki
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Re: GD: Dedicated Strategy Wiki?

Post by Aguraki »

shmupwikia looks better to me.
Good luck guys with this I'm a too lazy supporter.
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DJ Incompetent
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Re: GD: Dedicated Strategy Wiki?

Post by DJ Incompetent »

I see it's been 1 month without a spam in the history.

Bravo, devilmanozzy, bravo.
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