ST: Battle Garegga (20.7.14 - edits, record replays list)

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Twiddle
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Post by Twiddle »

BulletMagnet wrote:Doesn't this just sort of confirm what we already (think we) know, namely that dying with fewer lives in reserve means a greater decrease in the rank? However, when you say that...
Yes, but the rank decrease is not a divisor, it's a linearly dependant rate. Which means, that dying with 1 life left is only slightly better than dying with 2, but still way better than dying with 5.
BulletMagnet wrote:...does this suggest that, unlike what was previously thought, there is no point where the rank will "roll over" and you won't be able to reduce it down past that point? If this is confirmed, then that makes a big difference in my impression of the game's structure, at least...not sure about anyone else. Let me know if I intepreted that correctly...
That is correct.
Plasmo wrote:Does that mean that losing your medal chain actually INCREASES your rank? (because after losing medal chain you obviously start a new one thus collect the low medals again...)
Yep. Brutal, I know. ;)
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Post by Icarus »

BulletMagnet wrote:Doesn't this just sort of confirm what we already (think we) know, namely that dying with fewer lives in reserve means a greater decrease in the rank? However, when you say that...
It does. There has been a lot of dispute on both Western and Japanese boards that the actual numerical figures given out by Raizing to the authors of the Handbook are correct, but this at least gives us something we can now make accurate numbers from.
BulletMagnet wrote:...does this suggest that, unlike what was previously thought, there is no point where the rank will "roll over" and you won't be able to reduce it down past that point? If this is confirmed, then that makes a big difference in my impression of the game's structure, at least...not sure about anyone else. Let me know if I intepreted that correctly...
Rank was originally theorised to have specific levels that were impossible to roll back from once passed (and was somewhat based on the 'count Black Heart's support fighters' theory). Although the rank counter can now be seen as a continuous counter, I still believe that there are specific limits set within the main counter that trigger an increase in difficulty when reached. Whether or not you can 'roll back' from the set limits - and decrease the difficulty down a level - is still unknown to me.
BulletMagnet wrote:Ouch...as if the game's inherent system didn't give you enough incentive not to break your medal chain. :P
Yup, evil isn't it? Perfect medalling is a huge incentive, not just in scoring but in rank control, and having this 'startup penalty' encourages proper practice of scoring techniques.
BulletMagnet wrote:I presume this includes dropping the max value 10K point medals, too? I guess that debunks the old saw that dropping those reduced your rank...as such it seems that the sole way to lower the rank is to kill yourself.
I believe that it involves all levels of Medals. Adding this to the above (lowest level Medals increase rank faster) further raises the importance of good Medalling.
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Post by Twiddle »

Icarus wrote:Rank was originally theorised to have specific levels that were impossible to roll back from once passed (and was somewhat based on the 'count Black Heart's support fighters' theory). Although the rank counter can now be seen as a continuous counter, I still believe that there are specific limits set within the main counter that trigger an increase in difficulty when reached. Whether or not you can 'roll back' from the set limits - and decrease the difficulty down a level - is still unknown to me.
I think the point where it becomes literally impossible to "roll back" is when the amount of firepower and destruction needed to score the next extend outstrips the amount of rank a suicide can tear off.

If you keep the rank counter around 15-12m in the first four stages, you're pretty safe from this.

* - Another thing I'd like to add, is that rank DOES lower. Set the rank value to 4m in say, stage 6, and you're going to have a hell of a party. Die repeatedly to get back down (or "up") to 10m (impossible in a normal game, but we're talking theory here) and things will quiet down quite a bit.

The enemies that came from the 4m wave will still have a lot of hitpoints though, despite them not firing as much.

* - http://www.geocities.jp/garelabo/index.html --This is the MAME build I use for taking note of rank changes. It has a "rank per frame" indicator in the cheat .dat and can show the rank value in hex and decimal.

^Plasmo - Yeah, the rank does not cool down at all by breaking a 10k medal chain. Dunno how I forgot to put that there.
Last edited by Twiddle on Mon Jun 19, 2006 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Icarus »

Hmmm... interesting. Thanks again for the info, makes for good reading. That link was very interesting too, as it not only had high level scoring replays for the Mahou characters, but had some numerical rank system info at http://www.geocities.jp/garelabo/rank.html

Might machine-translate it and see what it gives. ^_-
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Post by Twiddle »

Haha I didn't bother to see that page and it confirmed/fixed just about everything I had to do with numbers

though it feels like seeing an answer sheet sometime after doing a test

I don't know where people got medals decreasing rank in the first place. Maybe it applies to Batrider and Bakraid, where you get audible "no!"'s for missing a medal chain or an extend marker.
Last edited by Twiddle on Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by BulletMagnet »

Icarus wrote:There has been a lot of dispute on both Western and Japanese boards that the actual numerical figures given out by Raizing to the authors of the Handbook are correct, but this at least gives us something we can now make accurate numbers from.
Outta curiosity, has The Handbook (cue beam of light and angelic choir) ever been translated/analyzed/otherwise made available to those on this forum? Or anywhere?
Plasmo wrote:Does that mean that losing your medal chain actually INCREASES your rank? (because after losing medal chain you obviously start a new one and you pick up the low medals again...)
Hopefully this will serve as the final-final-final nail in the coffin to those who still say "Oh, beginners will be fine, the rank system adjusts itself to their skill level." :P

Thanks for the info, Twiddle, especially the confirmation that there's no "point of no return"...obviously, you're still best-served by suiciding regularly, but it's nice to know that 1) You don't have to guess blindly when to best place a suicide in order to beat the "rollover", and 2) You're not COMPLETELY screwed if you go without dying for a short while.

Perhaps I ought to make the effort to play a bit of this again...
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Post by Twiddle »

BulletMagnet wrote:Hopefully this will serve as the final-final-final nail in the coffin to those who still say "Oh, beginners will be fine, the rank system adjusts itself to their skill level." :P
I'd say the fourth stage is when the game says "Ok son you've got to MAN UP or else you're out of here" as it's still pretty difficult at minimum rank (15m) if you don't know where everything is and what to blow up.
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Post by Icarus »

BulletMagnet wrote:Outta curiosity, has The Handbook (cue beam of light and angelic choir) ever been translated/analyzed/otherwise made available to those on this forum? Or anywhere?
What on earth do you think I've been spending a large portion of my free time translating and cross-referencing with my own experience with the game, for the benefit of non-Japanese Garegga players?

-_-;;
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Post by BulletMagnet »

Ah, heh heh. I wasn't aware that the stuff you've been posting on this thread was partially translations from there...I guess it doesn't go "all that deep" into the intricacies of the rank system, seeing as the info Twiddle just posted sems to be appearing For the First Time Anywhere...is there a "straightforward" translation of it anyplace, outta curiosity?
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Post by Icarus »

BulletMagnet wrote:Ah, heh heh. I wasn't aware that the stuff you've been posting on this thread was partially translations from there...I guess it doesn't go "all that deep" into the intricacies of the rank system, seeing as the info Twiddle just posted sems to be appearing For the First Time Anywhere...is there a "straightforward" translation of it anyplace, outta curiosity?
Nope. As far as I'm aware, this ST thread is the only known translation of The Handbook, and quite possibly the only major Western-written Garegga guide in existence. All the contents of the ST thread are almost direct translations of the Handbook (mainly relating to numerical info and system data), with lots and lots of added extras relating to strategy compiled by myself and Rando, among other contributors.

The 'hacking' data is fairly new, though, although the Japanese were already doing it a while ago according to the link Twiddle dropped up a few posts up.

Good thing I'm taking regular backups of the thread and its contents. ^_-
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Post by Twiddle »

^BulletMagnet - Since more accurate information is in this page, I'd say Japanese players have already figured this out and I'm just confirming it for the Western players :)
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Post by Icarus »

Quick machine translation of Garegga Laboratory's rank system data page. Infoseek's translator won't even touch it, so I Babelfished it (God forbid)... pseudo-HTML tables added to make the numerical data easier to read.

Original link for the Japanese literate:
http://www.geocities.jp/garelabo/rank.html
research 2005/09/08 edition

1. In beginning
Because to the last it is investigation with respect to emulator, there is a possibility the findings from differing from the apparatus.
February 3rd Ver, degree of hardness normal and remaining machine 3 and 1000000 , you investigated with region Japanese setting.
Numerical value inside the parenthesis in composition is hexadecimal number.

2. Basic item of ranking
Internal ranking numerical value (or less total ranking) the degree of extent hardness which is decreased becomes high.
The upper limit total and ranking, there is the lower limit, is not outside this range
1 the value which makes total ranking every frame decrease is provided, (or less frame ranking)
The change with the rise of ranking, the number & durability of appearances of the enemy, appears in discharge frequency & speed and item falling speed of the enemy bullet.
Durability of the enemy is decided with ranking at the point in time when the enemy appears.

3. Upper limit of total ranking, the lower limit
Power source in 1st play immediately after the throwing, the upper limit becomes 15,728,640 (00f00000h), the lower limit 2,097,152 (00200000h) with.
After play and the end, when from the ranking picture changing to the title picture, upper limit decreases.
Test with the restart by the button, the pattern where reset of the upper limit is not done (it is based on the experience with the apparatus)
It is power source ranking which decrease of the total ranking upper limit continual and by play says commonly.

4. Frame ranking
Frame ranking is the value which decides the ranking rise quantity due to time lapse.
1 the frame (every approximately 1/60 seconds) just value of frame ranking total ranking decreases.
Frame ranking running fire speed, rises with power rise of the shot and hiding formation.
Fuselage from when selecting the ranking rise with frame ranking has started.
Frame it does not decrease ranking. (Continuing, it does not change)

-- 4 - 1. The change with running fire speed

Running fire speed and frame ranking

Code: Select all

|  Running fire speed   |  Specified value  |
|-------------------------------------------|
|   8.6 (Early ream)    |     22 (16h)      |
|          10           |     22 (16h)      |
|          12           |     33 (21h)      |
|          15           |     44 (2Ch)      |
|          20           |     66 (42h)      |
|          30           |     88 (42h)      |
When frame ranking at the point in time when running fire speed is modified is under specified value, frame ranking is set to specified value.
As an example, 12 reams, frame ranking in state of 50, changing to 15 reams, frame ranking 50 it continues to be. Because (specified value of 15 reams 44, already it is above specified value)
If in this state it makes 20 reams, frame ranking becomes 66. Because (specified value of 20 reams 66, present value is under specified value)

-- 4 - 2. The change with shot power rise
When power making raise the main shot with the small shot item, frame ranking is added + 1.
When power making raise with the large shot item, it does not change.

-- 4 - 3. The change with hiding formation
Hiding formation other than wide (search, homing and trace) at the point in time when it becomes, frame ranking is added + 2.

5. Change of total ranking

Item acquisition

Code: Select all

|       Type      |                Change quantity                |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
|                 |   Normality collection   |    2,048 (800h)    |
|   Small shot    |      MAX collection      |   10,240 (2800h)   |
|                 |       Levelling up       |   10,240 (2800h)   |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
|                 |   Normality collection   |    2,048 (800h)    |
|  Small weapon   |      MAX collection      |   10,240 (2800h)   |
|                 |       Levelling up       |   67,584 (10800h)  |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
|   Large shot    |   Normality collection   |    8,192 (2000h)   |
|                 |      MAX collection      |   16,384 (4000h)   |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
|  Large weapon   |   Normality collection   |   65,536 (10000h)  |
|                 |      MAX collection      |   73,728 (12000h)  |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
|     Option      |   Normality collection   |   65,536 (10000h)  |
|                 |      MAX collection      |   73,728 (12000h)  |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
|   Decoration    |        100 points        |    8,192 (2000h)   |
|                 |        200 points        |   18,432 (4800h)   |
|                 |        300 points        |   28,672 (7000h)   |
|                 |        400 points        |   38,912 (9800h)   |
|                 |    500 points or more    |      118 (76h)     |
When failing

Code: Select all

|   Remaining machine   |   Change quantity    |
|----------------------------------------------|
|           5           |  261,120 (03fc00h)   |
|           4           |  391,680 (05fa00h)   |
|           3           |  522,240 (07f800h)   |
|           2           |  655,360 (0a0000h)   |
|           1           |  785,920 (0bfe00h)   |
|   Overlooking death   |(The same as remain 1)|
In addition

Code: Select all

|       Type      |   Change quantity  |
|--------------------------------------|
| Bomb discharge  |	16,384 (4000h)   |
| Bullet sealing  |    2,048 (800h)    |
Main shot discharge

Code: Select all

|      Fuselage     |   Level   |   Number of discharges   |   Change quantity   |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|                   |     0     |                          |                     |
|                   |     1     |            N2            |       60 (3ch)      |
|                   |------------------------------------------------------------|
|   Silver Sword    |     2     |                          |                     |
|                   |     3     |                          |                     |
|                   |     4     |            N3            |       80 (50h)      |
|                   |     SP    |                          |                     |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|                   |     0     |                          |                     |
|                   |     1     |            N2            |       60 (3ch)      |
|                   |     2     |                          |                     |
|                   |------------------------------------------------------------|
|    Grasshopper    |     3     |                          |                     |
|                   |     4     |         N2 + P1          |      140 (8ch)      |
|                   |------------------------------------------------------------|
|                   |     SP    |         N2 + P2          |      220 (dch)      |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|                   |     0     |            N2            |       60 (3ch)      |
|                   |     1     |                          |                     |
|                   |------------------------------------------------------------|
|   Flying Baron    |     2     |            N3            |       80 (50h)      |
|                   |     3     |                          |                     |
|                   |------------------------------------------------------------|
|                   |     4     |            N4            |      100 (64h)      |
|                   |     SP    |                          |                     |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|                   |     0     |                          |                     |
|                   |     1     |                          |                     |
|                   |     2     |         N2 + P1          |      140 (8ch)      |
|    Wild Snail     |     3     |                          |                     |
|                   |------------------------------------------------------------|
|                   |     4     |                          |                     |
|                   |     SP    |         N2 + P2          |      220 (dch)      |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|                   |     0     |            N2            |       60 (3ch)      |
|                   |------------------------------------------------------------|
|                   |     1     |            N3            |       80 (50h)      |
|                   |------------------------------------------------------------|
|       Gain        |     2     |            N2            |       60 (3ch)      |
|                   |------------------------------------------------------------|
|                   |     3     |                          |                     |
|                   |     4     |            N3            |       80 (50h)      |
|                   |     SP    |                          |                     |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|                   |     0     |                          |                     |
|                   |     1     |            N2            |       60 (3ch)      |
|                   |------------------------------------------------------------|
|      Chitta       |     2     |                          |                     |
|                   |     3     |                          |                     |
|                   |     4     |            N3            |       80 (50h)      |
|                   |     SP    |                          |                     |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|                   |     0     |                          |                     |
|                   |     1     |                          |                     |
|                   |     2     |            N2            |       60 (3ch)      |
|     Miyamoto      |     3     |                          |                     |
|                   |------------------------------------------------------------|
|                   |     4     |                          |                     |
|                   |     SP    |            N4            |      100 (64h)      |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|                   |     0     |            N2            |       60 (3ch)      |
|                   |------------------------------------------------------------|
|                   |     1     |                          |                     |
|                   |     2     |            N3            |       80 (50h)      |
|      Bornnam      |     3     |                          |                     |
|                   |------------------------------------------------------------|
|                   |     4     |                          |                     |
|                   |     SP    |            N5            |      120 (78h)      |
Option shot discharge

Code: Select all

|          Type        |   Change quantity   |
|--------------------------------------------|
|    Garegga ships,    |                     |
|  Chitta and Bornnam  |       20 (14h)      |
|--------------------------------------------|
|       Miyamoto       |       60 (3ch)      |
|--------------------------------------------|
|         Gain         |      240 (f0h)      |
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Post by BulletMagnet »

Some interesting items in there, if I'm cutting through the Engrish halfway capably...
When power making raise the main shot with the small shot item, frame ranking is added + 1.
When power making raise with the large shot item, it does not change.
I don't recall having heard about that one before...using a small shot item to level up your shot power apparently does more "permanant" harm to your rank than using a large one does, even though actually collecting the large one does more "instant" damage.
Hiding formation other than wide (search, homing and trace) at the point in time when it becomes, frame ranking is added + 2.
Another interesting tidbit...Wide formation, for some reason, doesn't increase the rank like the other hidden option formations do.

I'd need some help interpreting the "shot discharge" table, but it seems to suggest that your shots don't affect rank in a "number of individual bullets fired" way as previously suggested...for instance, the Silver Sword's shots are listed under a single subheading from levels 0-1, and another for everything else...does this mean that ANY level of shot power for it above 1 increases rank by the same amount (per "total" shot, maybe? It certainly doesn't suggest "per bullet"...IIRC at level 2 it has 3 bullets, and at the Special level it has 6 or so)? Or am I misreading the table? I have no idea what "h," "ch," or "dch" stand for...I guess "n" and "p" stand for "non-piercing" and "piercing"? In any event, the "don't shoot when there's nothing to shoot at" rule still seems to apply (again, if I read correctly), as does the "large vs. small bullets makes no difference rank-wise" bit, but seeing as, for instance, the Grass Hopper's level 0 and 1 shots (2 non-piercing bullets) and its level 3 shot (4 non-piercing bullets) are all listed under the same "section," the "per-individual bullet" theory seems to have been debunked if this info is correct, as it seems to depend more on which "section" you're in, level-wise (also: Miyamoto only has 4 bullets at max level?).
Icky wrote:Nope. As far as I'm aware, this ST thread is the only known translation of The Handbook, and quite possibly the only major Western-written Garegga guide in existence.
Almost feels like I'm part of history or something. :mrgreen:

Cheers Icarus, keep up the good work! :)
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Post by Twiddle »

Code: Select all

|       Type      |   Change quantity  |
|--------------------------------------|
| Bomb discharge  |   16,384 (4000h)   |
| Bullet sealing  |    2,048 (800h)    |
What this means:

-Bullet canceling rank increases-

You use a bomb: +16,384

*, ^BulletMagnet - Before I had something about bomb cancelling bullets here but it just happens each time you bomb, whether or not you cancel bullets. Sorry.

Every bullet that you cancel using the "dead zone" of an enemy: +2,048 (happens each time the enemy fires)

Example: If you happen to destroy the central turret of the stage 3 midboss, and go inside its "dead zone" to seal its circular fire, you get 2048 additional rank points for each and every bullet it was supposed to fire.

Which means, basically, to do this only to pesky little enemies that fire one bullet every 2 seconds instead of the ones that do shotgun or machine gun bursts.
Last edited by Twiddle on Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:42 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Post by BulletMagnet »

Twiddle wrote:You use a bomb to cancel bullets: +16,384 (happens only once each time you use a bomb for this purpose, intentionally or not)
...but apparently this increase doesn't occur if the bomb doesn't cancel any bullets? And the amount of bullets you cancel doesn't affect the number any?
Every bullet that you cancel using the "dead zone" of an enemy: +2,048 (happens each time the enemy fires)
Forgive my ignorance, but what's the "dead zone?" (It might be my next Glossary entry, heh heh.)

EDIT: Doh, ninja edit, okay, I get it. :)

Oh, another thing I noticed: the page you "transrated," Icarus, didn't mention anything about the rank increasing when you destroy an enemy...or did I miss it?
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Post by Twiddle »

^BulletMagnet - See edit

There is no direct rank increase for enemy or target destruction of any sort, but the firepower you do use to destroy enemies increases rank.
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Post by BulletMagnet »

Duly noted. :) Can you confirm anything as far as what I've theorized about the (possibly debunked) "per-bullet" theory? Or what those couple of abbreviations in the chart might mean?
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Post by Twiddle »

Bullet cancelling by bombs does not increase rank besides the initial bombing rank increase, so cancelling a large amount of bullets by bombing is much safer than canceling them by point blanking AND lingering in the safe enemy radius at which it won't fire at you (the "dead zone"), both survival and rank-wise.

NX is normal shot sprites fired, where X is the number of shots

Px is penetrating shot sprites fired, where x is the number of penetrating shots
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Post by BulletMagnet »

Ack, I shoulda been clearer, sorry. By the "per-bullet theory," I meant the pre-existing theory that rank increased based on each individual bullet you shoot, with "normal" and "piercing" bullets (and option bullets) being worth different amounts. However, the chart above seems to suggest that rank increases not "per bullet" but "per shot," since it seems that at certain "groups" of power levels (as laid out in the chart) the rank increase is a set amount, regardless of the actual amount of bullets fired. One of my above posts gives an example or two...

Also, as for the "abbreviations," I was mainly wondering what "h," "ch," and "dch" meant, I guessed that "p" and "np" stood for "piercing" and "non-piercing."

Sorry 'bout that, you've answered a lot already. :oops:
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Post by Twiddle »

It actually is per bullet (and by bullet, I mean sprite). The N2+P1 indicates that you're shooting two normal "bullets" and one penetrating "bullet".

For Wild Snail level 0:

Code: Select all

  N2 = 2 * 20 = 40
+ P1 = 1 * 80 = 80
-------------------
               120 increase in rank each time you shoot
               +20 increase for the shot action
-------------------
               140 total increase per shot action
(XXXXh) means the hex value, which has a set of digits 0 through F. XXXX (or XX or XXXXXX) is the value.
Last edited by Twiddle on Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:38 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Post by Icarus »

Thanks for the continued posts clarifying all this stuff, Twiddle, and for the initial batch of info that sparked off the new discussion. Its making for some interesting reading. ^_-
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Post by BulletMagnet »

Maybe the "sprite" thing is what's throwing me off...as in the Silver Sword example I gave above, by the time it gets up to its Special level, it looks like it's shooting (IIRC) six bullets, when (I guess) each pair of bullets counts as a single "sprite," and only increases rank via the "1 bullet" amount...maybe that's it?

The numbers are weird on the chart though...to go back to the Silver Sword, the lowest amount of shot-related rank increase (levels 0-1, 2 non-piercing shots) is listed at 60 (ostensibly, 30 points a bullet). However, add a third bullet in levels 2 and up, and the amount goes up to 80: shouldn't it be 90? Or is there some other number I'm not taking into account...maybe it has something to do with those other "mystery" abbreviations?

Well, anyways, the important thing that's been discovered, it'd seem, is that individual levels (or visible "bullets") aren't always the best indicator of how much rank damage your shot will do you...apparently, if you're going to level up the Silver Sword's shot past level 1, you might as well go all the way to the Special level, as it doesn't seem to make any difference. I must remember this next time I play...
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Post by Twiddle »

^Icarus - No problem! This was inspired largely due to my failing of getting fl0w's mod to work.

What I ended up finding was a rank system that was less seemingly hopeless than previously illustrated.

^BulletMagnet - Again, see edits to my previous post. There's a base "shot action" rank increase associated with shooting, after all the fired projectiles are accounted for.

Edit: Also, two bullets will be shown per sprite at higher power levels, but they are more powerful than the one-bullet-sprites. Miyamoto has around 3 to 4 "bullets" per sprite at higher power levels.
so long and tanks for all the spacefish
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<Megalixir> now that i know garegga is faggot central i can disregard it entirely
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Post by BulletMagnet »

You and your dang ninja edits. :mrgreen:

Hmm, does the "shot action" thing lend any credence to the previous "rank increases every time you push a button" theory? or does this only apply to shots? Also, it seems that the "shot action" amount can vary (by plane, maybe?) since I guess that the "shot action" for the Silver Sword that I gave earlier would be ten, as opposed to the twenty illustrated here for the Snail...I'd hafta look at the chart more closely.

Poor Icky, lots of editing work to come...but it's for a good cause, right? ;)
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Post by Twiddle »

If rank increased each time you pushed a button, then pressing START a billion times in the first level would max it out. So, no, that theory is debunked and was probably invented by someone bitter about the rank system of this game.

The ways you can increase rank are:
shooting
bombing
collecting
surviving

Dodging isn't one of them, well at least directly.

Oh, and the Silver Sword is following the 20 base rank shot action rule:

Levels 0 and 1:

Code: Select all

    N2 (2 * 20 rank)
+ base (20 rank) ("shot action")
-------
=   60
Levels 2 to MAX:

Code: Select all

    N3 (3 * 20 rank)
+ base (20 rank)
-------
=   80
Edit: Lots of errors corrected Image

The "shot action" rank happens every time you shoot (not button press).
so long and tanks for all the spacefish
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Post by BulletMagnet »

Twiddle wrote:So, no, that theory is debunked and was probably invented by someone bitter about the rank system of this game.
Heh, seeing as how much of this kind of info is just coming out now (well, at least around here), heaven only knows what kind of theories and whatnot about the game's rank system have been floating around before now...maybe we should keep a list for posterity's sake. :mrgreen:

Thanks again for your hard work, it should be of significant help next time I try to tackle this monster. :)
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Post by Icarus »

Technically, you could still say that pressing Shot or Weapon buttons raises rank anyway, since the resulting effect adds to the increasing rank counter (via bullets fired or the Weapon going off). That is just me being pedantic though. ^_-
BulletMagnet wrote:Cheers Icarus, keep up the good work!
Thanks, its a labor of love, this thing you read here. ^_^

I wouldn't have taken on this mammoth task if I didn't love the game as much as I do. I have Rando to thank for it in part, since on the GameSpy forum he stated that he was going to do one, so I offered to collaborate with him on it. I had already partly translated some of the Handbook prior to the beginnings of the ST thread anyway, so offering to do a joint work was the catalyst in me getting on with it properly.

There's still a load of work to be done at the moment, but for now, everything from system analysis to stage guides up to stage6 are ready for new and returning players to look at. I have to thank al the hard work of players here though in playing, discussing and deconstructing everything Garegga. It's been thoroughly enjoyable working on this monster guide (even though everything from study to other games to social life gets in the way of finishing it ^_-).

It makes me wonder though, that when I get round to compiling the resulting Ibara ST, if the resulting future emulation will spark off another mass system hacking attempt to understand the inner workings of the rank system for said game. Or for any other Raizing game, for that matter.

Who knows...
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Post by BulletMagnet »

It makes me wonder though, that when I get round to compiling the resulting Ibara ST, if the resulting future emulation will spark off another mass system hacking attempt to understand the inner workings of the rank system for said game. Or for any other Raizing game, for that matter.
If Garegga's any indication, such beyond-any-rational-devotion-to-a-video-game efforts are about our only chance of ever understanding the nature of the beast we're up against, heh heh.
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Post by fl0w »

Twiddle wrote:This was inspired largely due to my failing of getting fl0w's mod to work.
Sorry to hear that, though in the end it's lead to a rather positive conclusion ;)
np: Image
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Post by Icarus »

Just a quick confirmation question to the rank hackers present: on the PCB/MAME, I understand that the starting level of rank changes depending on how long the game has been left on, and how many credits have been pumped into the game. On the Saturn version, you can reset rank by opening the Options screen.

On MAME however, players have tried to use save states to reload the game to just after the boot up sequence finishes (usually at the disclaimer screen), or by resetting the PCB itself.

Does this actually work? Or do you have to 'power off' the PCB fully to reset rank?
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