ST: Armed Police Batrider (21.7.14 - correct rank info)

[Kaiser]

I wonder why no one noted that Discharge's first form turrets/cannons depend on Ship type you're entering the boss with? (applies to Special course only, tested it). If you enter the boss with type A, he will take out his LASER CANNONS. If you enter the boss with type B, he will take out his rotating cannons and IF YOU ENTER the boss with type C, he'll take out spread cannon. Type Start is a random choice of those.

[Plasmo]

Crosspost from hiscore topic:

Zenobia City: Black Heart MkII
All three of your fighters must have been selected with different buttons (A type, B type, C type, etc.) If you have at least one surviving Garegga ship in your team upon cleaing the Highway stage, you will fight Black Heart MkII before progressing to Zenobia City.

You only need to select your fighters with at least two different buttons. For example, C, A, C works for me everytime.

I wonder if you're still around to update, ICR...?

[Deca]

I'm having trouble changing firing speed in mame. The first time I tried today it went straight to #20, and every time after would only go to #15, and then would not increase any further.

Batrider has been my favorite shooter for a while. Its normal mode was (I'm pretty sure) my first 1cc ever, and I've repeated it several times. I've begun work on Advanced but have trouble once I get to highway, with all the popcorn enemies firing aimed 3way shots at me constantly. I've started working on rank control, but that obviously presents an entirely new set of challenges. I kind of feel like I'm starting from scratch x.x

[croikle]

Cross-posting from video thread:

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm11363847
Batrider Advanced 21.15M ALL with Car-Pet (S).

No Garegga bosses or ninjas (and only one Rival) because of the team, but milks the hell out of everything else. Encouraging that such a score is possible without having to worry about which character is alive.

Thanks to the mysterious sbr on irc for noticing this.

[Icarus]

Nice find, nice run, interesting to see that over 20mil is achievable with just Car-Pet. Perhaps applying the knowledge from this replay to techniques for the missing Garegga, Mahou and Batrider bosses is enough to get us up to 30mil. Achieving it is another matter, but at least it's a step closer to understanding how the WR was attained.

[Icarus]

I have some time, lets do something with this guide. Metropolis and Sky High basics up, should slowly pick away at the stages within the next few weeks. Purposely leaving detailed boss tactics out until I get the general body of techniques for the stages out of the way, and I've finished filtering out all of the assorted tips floating around shmupsforum and namakoHQ.

If you've got some good resources, hit me up.

[freddiebamboo]

Glad to see you're still doing your thing ICR

Reminds me I need to get playing again

[DEL]

I found a way to get an extra 100,000 on Stage 1 (Normal & Advanced).
Ship Choice:
Strawman
Flying Baron (C)
Miyamoto
Starting with Strawman bomb immediately as usual, pick up 1 full bomb and bomb the 2 helicopters and underground train, then suicide before you knock down the sign and trigger the birds. Immediately use Flying Baron's full bomb on the birds. If you've timed it right you'll get 100,000 points more than usual from this and can finish the stage on 1.2mil.
Only problem is - I haven't figured the timing out perfectly and its hit and miss whether it works.
But it does work

Regs,

DEL

[TLB]

Great tip, DEL!

[Icarus]

Guides for Sewer and Airport are up. Again, no detailed boss guides until all the stages have been completed, and screengrabs will be coming en-masse when most of the stage guides have been fleshed out. Will probably need some fact-checking done to ensure my scoring values and secret triggers are correct.

Hopefully I can run through Highway, Zenovia City and Gigantech Building tomorrow afternoon, then I can start on the boss stuff with a Special Course refresher.

@DEL:
After seeing the Car-Pet replay making the rounds, I'm now certain you can score over 1.5mil on stage1 with accurate play and a character switch or two at the boss fight.

[Aliquantic]

I don't have anything to offer sadly, but thank you Icaros for your work on this guide and videos

(A very naive question: has anyone attempted a no-miss of Advanced Course? I know KET did it on Battle Garegga, but I have no idea if it's physically possible on Batrider or worth it for points... and there are only a handful of videos on NicoNico)

[saucykobold]

A very naive question: has anyone attempted a no-miss of Advanced Course?

This guy managed to do it with Tag-T:

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3

[DEL]

Icarus wrote;

@DEL:
After seeing the Car-Pet replay making the rounds, I'm now certain you can score over 1.5mil on stage1 with accurate play and a character switch or two at the boss fight.

I'd be interested to see this Car-pet replay you speak of.
It makes sense because you can use Car-pet's bomb to zoom over the enemies and rapidly increase your medal values.

[Plasmo]

I'd be interested to see this Car-pet replay you speak of.

It's nine posts above you.

On a side note, the old 29,1mill WR score from 10 years ago was improved in this month's Arcadia mag and pushed to 29,3mill.

[Icarus]

Guides for Highway, Zenovia City and Gigantech Building up. Some fact-checking will be required, and a little more in-depth explanations written in the near-future, but for now it should be enough. Screens coming later, boss guides first. Also found some nice information tipettes regarding ships and characters, from my old score thread, that I've cross-posted for use.

@DEL:
Just for you (and others without a nicovideo account), the Car-Pet 20mil run with an external video player.
pt1: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/video/niconico/sm11363847
pt2: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/video/niconico/sm11363907
pt3: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/video/niconico/sm11364780
pt4: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/video/niconico/sm11364827

[DEL]

Gee Wiz that Car-Pet replay is MANLY.
GRRR I feel like going out and buying a six-pack of somethin' strong then curling for the rest of the evening.
.
.
.
(errm...that's my average evening already )

Icarus - you're too good to me, really

[Plasmo]

Some fact-checking will be required

Ok.

->

[...]but there is another scoring element involving the building - you get a 30k bonus for every second you hit the building with a Weapon attack. This can be tricky to do as you can accidentally knock over the sign first with the Weapon attack, but if you can plan a good Weapon strategy at this point, you can gain between 15k - 20k in extra points.

Really? Are you referring to the flamingoes maybe?

SUBMARINES:
During the early stretch of the stage you'll be flying over a central canal with two columns of blue colored submarines appearing. Destroying them will give you a Weapon fragment, destroying them with Weapon or Aura gives you 10k per submarine.

Again, I'm not sure, but I don't think it was 10k. Something like 5k or 3k sounds more accurate? Just trying to remember though...

some yellow tanks on the left worth 20k each

You mean the four to the right, right? Didn't know about the higher value, thanks for the tip!

However, I have noticed that they will just simply blow up, taking the Medals with them on occasion, and I'm not entirely certain why this happens.

Sprite-limit probably. If you destroy the first three first and when the screen starts scrolling again the last two, you'll get 4 medals from each hangar each time.

- glass panels are worth 3k each when destroyed fully,

IIRC each crack is worth 3k. If you're careful you can get some more points from destroying them fully.

In order to get the secret Extend, you have to:

- destroy both side segments.
- leave the mid-boss until it comes to a stop in the tunnel, then destroy it there.

You can't harm the main body without destroying the segments first. Thus explicitly mentioning to destroy the side segments as a condition to get the extend feels a bit weird. "kill the tank when it's parked" should do it, because that's basically all. Much easier than in Garegga one might think.

These gun platforms are worth a nice bit in points too, as you'll get 10k for destroying each turret with Shot, and if you bomb the linking cable that joins each pair of platforms together, you'll get seven free Medals.

These round platforms are a key scoring spot. I'm not sure about how many points you exactly get, but with a full bomb you can easily get 300k from them. Just watch the 17mill superplay, the scorecounter goes crazy.

each glass canister is worth 3k, but when they're destroyed

You should mention that you get less points for destroying them with Weapon. I'm not sure how much exactly...

The approach to the final boss Discharge features an alley of 12 turrets - the type of turret in the alley is randomised, and can be anything from rotary turrets to aimed lasers, but the alley will only feature one type of turret each credit.

Kaiser has found out that they're not random in Special Course. Maybe you can control them in Advanced Course, too? Research needs to be done.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks very much for the work on the guide! I'm kinda out of training, but reading the guide really makes me want to play this again! Hopefully we can give some exact numbers then and get the boss strategies worked out.

[Icarus]

That's what I get for rushing. ;D

[...]but there is another scoring element involving the building - you get a 30k bonus for every second you hit the building with a Weapon attack. This can be tricky to do as you can accidentally knock over the sign first with the Weapon attack, but if you can plan a good Weapon strategy at this point, you can gain between 15k - 20k in extra points.

Really? Are you referring to the flamingoes maybe?

Nope, I noticed this ages ago, tested it out then, and again just recently. If you want a video, watch the Car-Pet replay very carefully - the player gets 30k per second for tickling the building with Weapon, gets around 90k, then destroys the building and knocks over the sign for more points. The biggest danger is knocking over the sign first with Weapon, but I've managed to successfully do this trick with a full Strawman Weapon, so it does work.

EDIT: The player in the 17mil team replay does it as well, with a full Strawman Weapon..

SUBMARINES:
During the early stretch of the stage you'll be flying over a central canal with two columns of blue colored submarines appearing. Destroying them will give you a Weapon fragment, destroying them with Weapon or Aura gives you 10k per submarine.

Again, I'm not sure, but I don't think it was 10k. Something like 5k or 3k sounds more accurate? Just trying to remember though...

Maybe 5k, though I was watching a replay in slow-mo and got my values that way. A nice way of dealing with this section is to bomb it when you get a bunch of them on screen, but that depends if you want to sacrifice a Weapon for something that insignificant. I'll leave it at 10k for the time being until we get exact values.

some yellow tanks on the left worth 20k each

You mean the four to the right, right? Didn't know about the higher value, thanks for the tip!

Ah yeah, on the right. Fixed, lol. And yes, bombing this area for the Medal box on the left is a good idea, as you get more points for everything else lying around.

However, I have noticed that they will just simply blow up, taking the Medals with them on occasion, and I'm not entirely certain why this happens.

Sprite-limit probably. If you destroy the first three first and when the screen starts scrolling again the last two, you'll get 4 medals from each hangar each time.

That sounds about right, as I usually start my Weapon off before the screen stops scrolling - the Weapon destroys the lower three boxes first, then the last two when the screen scrolls again. Bit of a git having it happen, though.

- glass panels are worth 3k each when destroyed fully,

IIRC each crack is worth 3k. If you're careful you can get some more points from destroying them fully.

So "each crack is worth 3k, and you get more for destroying them fully"? Sound right for a fix?

In order to get the secret Extend, you have to:

- destroy both side segments.
- leave the mid-boss until it comes to a stop in the tunnel, then destroy it there.

You can't harm the main body without destroying the segments first. Thus explicitly mentioning to destroy the side segments as a condition to get the extend feels a bit weird. "kill the tank when it's parked" should do it, because that's basically all. Much easier than in Garegga one might think.

Hmm, good point, I'll revise it to state "destroy midboss when parked, can only damage mid-boss when side segments are destroyed".

These gun platforms are worth a nice bit in points too, as you'll get 10k for destroying each turret with Shot, and if you bomb the linking cable that joins each pair of platforms together, you'll get seven free Medals.

These round platforms are a key scoring spot. I'm not sure about how many points you exactly get, but with a full bomb you can easily get 300k from them. Just watch the 17mill superplay, the scorecounter goes crazy.

I think there are around 10-12 small turrets on each disc worth 10k each, then points for destroying them fully (30k?), then Medals, so yeah, easily 300k per pair.

each glass canister is worth 3k, but when they're destroyed

You should mention that you get less points for destroying them with Weapon. I'm not sure how much exactly...

If it's typical "Law of Raizing" scoring, it'll be likely 10% of maximum, so 300pts.

The approach to the final boss Discharge features an alley of 12 turrets - the type of turret in the alley is randomised, and can be anything from rotary turrets to aimed lasers, but the alley will only feature one type of turret each credit.

Kaiser has found out that they're not random in Special Course. Maybe you can control them in Advanced Course, too? Research needs to be done.

Really? I recall he mentioned that the ship subtype of the ship you have active when fighting some boss in the game was what determined the weapon selection on one of the bosses, but I haven't fully tested it out yet, and I can't recall where I saw that post.

EDIT: Aha! Top of this page. ^_-
I'll have to try that myself, sounds intriguing.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks very much for the work on the guide! I'm kinda out of training, but reading the guide really makes me want to play this again! Hopefully we can give some exact numbers then and get the boss strategies worked out.

I'll be working on the boss strategies as I go along, as I'm messing around with Special and Normal Course at the moment for fun. I can probably pull the boss guides for Black Heart, Black Heart2 and Glow Squid from the Garegga ST and add some changes for Batrider-specific attacks, which should get us started.

[Icarus]

Moving right along, quick guides for Black Heart2, Glow Squid and Tsumujimaru up. Just pulled all the relevant data from the Garegga ST and MahouDai GD and edited to include Batrider-centric information. I'll have to write a guide for Black Heart1 for both the Garegga and Batrider STs in the near-future.

EDIT: Well, I'll be damned, Kaiser was right about ship subtype determining what turrets appear in the turret alley before Discharge. After testing it on Advanced Course, (A) gives aimed lasers, (B) gives rotary guns, (C) gives spread guns, and (ST) is a random selection, as he noted at the top of this thread. The technique for dealing with them still stands though (pointblank range to stop them firing), which makes it a little moot.

[DEL]

Well here's something fundamental. Car-Pet ST on a Korean B board only gives you the absolute minimum shot speed #10.
Whereas the Jap board allows #60.
So I don't need to explain to you that a Korean B board has a lot less Car-Pet (START) score potential.

[Plasmo]

You can't change your autofire rate at all on a Korean B. All ships come with a fixed rate.

Just set your PCB to Japan B and enjoy the game how it's meant to be.

You can easily change between all regions via the secret menu. No need to buy a new PCB or Eeprom

[Icarus]

Forgot there was that secret debug menu in the game. For DEL, the thread is here. (For archival, the Yagawa SH3 debug menu thread is here.)

From what I can discern, first enable test menu by flipping DIP #1 SWITCH 1 ON, then hold ABC when you power on and release ABC when you get to the test menu. With the cursor on Game Mode, press left or right to change region, then press Start once you get to the region you want, to get to the main game, with lowered rank and with the region you want.

Obviously you have to do this every time you power on the first time, but it is a few moments of effort to be able to play on equal footing with everyone else. Alternatively, you could invest in a ROM swap. ^_-

Thanks to oxtsu and everyone for testing this out. I'll compile the information and add it to the ST at a later date.

[DEL]

Ok Thanks Icarus.



I don't think I know another game that requires so many restarts.
The Car-Pet ST replay is the classic example of 'watch the replay, try to play the same way and get nowhere near the same results'. ie. Typical top level Japanese replay.
He pulls out so much sick shit in that run with a handicapped character.

[Icarus]

I don't think I know another game that requires so many restarts.
The Car-Pet ST replay is the classic example of 'watch the replay, try to play the same way and get nowhere near the same results'. ie. Typical top level Japanese replay.
He pulls out so much sick shit in that run with a handicapped character.

Actually, there isn't anything we didn't already know about in that Car-Pet run with regards to strategy and technique - the main difference is in optimal milking, and the extreme amount of tick points you can get with Car-Pet in general through the options and piercing Shot. The other main benefit to running with just Car-Pet is that you don't character switch constantly, so strategies and credits are consistent.

You could probably score at least 15mil if you played Car-Pet normally, without the extended milking cycles the Japanese player does. Drop another Mahou and a Garegga ship in the mix, and you could probably make 20mil without milking.

[DEL]

Easier said than done though. I've got the feeling that I'm gonna have a long frustation period before anything works out for me.
Earlier this Summer I tried Batrider for a week or two, got nowhere near my old scores and chucked the board back in the pile. Then started on Cyvern. Returning to Batrider now and its the same 'die and watch your max medals zip off the screen antics '. Car-Pet is good for score on the ST2 Bosses but also tricky if you're looking to leach them properly.

[Icarus]

Easier said than done though. I've got the feeling that I'm gonna have a long frustation period before anything works out for me.
Earlier this Summer I tried Batrider for a week or two, got nowhere near my old scores and chucked the board back in the pile. Then started on Cyvern. Returning to Batrider now and its the same 'die and watch your max medals zip off the screen antics '. Car-Pet is good for score on the ST2 Bosses but also tricky if you're looking to leach them properly.

Indeed, Raizing games can be ridiculously difficult to get back into, especially with the rank management side of things. But in my case at least, progression is quicker than if I came back to a Cave game. Much banging of head off nearest desk there.

The easiest way I've found to get myself back into Raizing Mode is just blast my way through with little regard for medals or rank management, to try and reacquaint myself with some tricks and technique. Special Course is good for getting back into the flow with boss scoring, and the Stage Edit stage skip is good for quickly practicing Bashinet-2 and the last couple of stages in Advanced. The rest is just perseverance. I have no doubt you can put in a good score with a bit of time DEL. ^_-

[Plasmo]

Indeed, Raizing games can be ridiculously difficult to get back into

Try DDP or something with an equally anal chaining system - That's what I call hard to get back into. Raizing games are quite easy for me. What I need atm is motivation to start out again. I can't be bothered these days to connect my supergun. If somebody would beat my score though that would be a totally different story...

[Icarus]

Try DDP or something with an equally anal chaining system - That's what I call hard to get back into. Raizing games are quite easy for me. What I need atm is motivation to start out again. I can't be bothered these days to connect my supergun. If somebody would beat my score though that would be a totally different story...

Is that a hint? ^_-

I get my i7 MBP this week, so I should be MAME'ing again soon. Gives me an excuse to work on the guide a bit more as well. Contributions would be welcome, too, hint hint. ^_-

[DEL]

Plasmo wrote;

Try DDP or something with an equally anal chaining system - That's what I call hard to get back into.

That kind of chaining is the equivalent of someone who likes line-dancing. Follow the exact anal robotic path with no freedom of expression - not for me.
Anyway I'll have a go at Batrider (considering I haven't much choice if I want to play boards - which I do). I've exhausted my Cyvern board, ALLed Brave Blade and I'm not gonna headbang on Twin Cobra's 2nd loop helicopter at your side point blank shooting shit. So unless I want to finally ALL Sonic Boom, its Batrider for a while.
I'll perservere with the restarts and play Car-Pet ST Advance COARS.
A bit of SPESHUL COARS on the side.

[Plasmo]

Car-Pet is boring, try a mixed team and go for the ALL BOSS-CLEAR.