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 Post subject: Re: GD: DOJ system and strat
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 11:51 am 


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Joined: 27 Feb 2007
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Location: France
It's weird o_o I never noticed a difference of hitbox for Type A between WL and BL, but also a 2* size difference between type A and B? That got switched between versions? I had heard type B had a misplaced hitbox in WL like one pixel to the side, that was fixed in BL. Dunno.
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 Post subject: Re: GD: DOJ system and strat
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 4:01 am 



Joined: 05 Mar 2016
Posts: 8
Location: China
Actually I think the bullet‘s hitbox also changed in BL.In the large,the BL's hitbox is far smaller than WL,although the Type-A's hitbox seemed larger in BL.

For example,in 2-5boss1,the third wave in BL,type A can deal it with it easier(sometimes I had saw the ship was exactly hitted but no miss!at WL this situation happens far less than BL,when I used the save states to practice)

PROMETHEUS wrote:
It's weird o_o I never noticed a difference of hitbox for Type A between WL and BL, but also a 2* size difference between type A and B? That got switched between versions? I had heard type B had a misplaced hitbox in WL like one pixel to the side, that was fixed in BL. Dunno.


On IOS,version the hitbox can be noticed by using custom settings,obviously the hitbox of Type-B had misplaced one pixel to the side.But in AC version maybe the hitbox seemed different.(By the way,I had found many mistakes at the booklet of the HFD's DVD,just like the lives bonus after cleared the 1st loop of BL(30mil/each ship),maybe there are some bugs,so the bonus couldn't got by us.And the hitbox,I think,was also seemed to like a misguide......because,anyway,in the large,the BL's hitbox is far smaller than WL,if using Save/Load at 2-5boss many times the conclusion will be more obvious)

I felt also weird,prom.Maybe the BL is easy enough to reach 2.5bil(containing full-combo the 1-3&2-3) without knowing the detail of hitbox in BL,but if playing WL,knowing the hitbox is important to face to some RNGs,like 2-4 rail gun&2-5 mid boss2.

Would you like to 2-all the WL in sh2.2 if you have more time,prom?The WL is just required to move more detailed and exactly.


Last edited by descriptive on Fri Mar 25, 2016 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: GD: DOJ system and strat
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 12:01 pm 


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Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 2442
Location: France
I remember when I played Type B in WL on PS1 emulator, sometimes I got hit when I thought I shouldn't, so I believed that it was related to misplaced hitbox after I heard about that. I haven't played very much type A in WL, I noticed a few patterns have different bullet types that have a little bigger hitbox (big round blue instead of medium round blue).

I can try again with playing a savestate at 2-5 boss. Try a 2-ALL later, why not, it's an interesting challenge. We could also try to ask IKD somehow :P
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 Post subject: Re: GD: DOJ system and strat
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 5:46 pm 



Joined: 05 Mar 2016
Posts: 8
Location: China
PROMETHEUS wrote:
I remember when I played Type B in WL on PS1 emulator, sometimes I got hit when I thought I shouldn't, so I believed that it was related to misplaced hitbox after I heard about that. I haven't played very much type A in WL, I noticed a few patterns have different bullet types that have a little bigger hitbox (big round blue instead of medium round blue).

I can try again with playing a savestate at 2-5 boss. Try a 2-ALL later, why not, it's an interesting challenge. We could also try to ask IKD somehow :P


I ‘ll be very appreciated if someone here can someday meet&ask IKD about detailed system in DOJ.
Not only the rank-system,but also the chain-bonus in BL when using Hypers are very complicated to know,If we know the detailed&non-bug system,maybe we can get more bonus.

(in WL,at 1-2&2-2,WL,if you use shot to hit the star area,no matter you use 1 hyper to 5 hyper the star area will always 470 points(from 20hits to 60hits),by the way,get the hyper will get 100 points,but if you calculated the bonus like the booklet,the bonus will be far higher......obviously,I think there's a bug,I mean a bug in the hyper system in there)

(In DDP3(2002.5.15)(The international ver,not the WL),maybe someone in this forum has played it,2 years ago,the cabinet(SEGA Net City) in my city is fine(now the screen of this cabinet is broken,I'm not from shanghai,the shanghai's DOJ is the BL,and its cabinet is SEGA Blast City),when I played it(If someone here had played it),I found the 1-1 can get 30mil(the 2nd lives) by only get 800hits(used default settings),like the BL,maybe the bug was fixed in DDP3 and the BL)

(By the way,the combo-bonus without hyper are very closed between WL,DDP3&BL,but once you use the hyper the combo-bonus will have a large difference)

But the problem is,When you use your hyper,the booklet's system about is is exactly wrong,can't be calculated exactly,the only thing I know is the 5Hypers' bonus in BL&DDP3 is far more higher than 4Hypers' bonus,in WL,maybe sometimes 5hypers' bonus are lower than 4Hypers'

In WL,I had found the actual bonus when using hyper(without hyper,the bonus is easy enough to calculate,and I think they are same among 3 versions):
(where the N is the number of Hypers)

when using hypers,the hits will be multiplied by (N+1)times,but the actual bonus will be accumulated when shot down a new enemy(or one of its part)or using laser to damage it.Not each hit will be accumulated.

(the first hit):(the enemy's bonus*2),even use 5hypers,also,(the enemy bonus*2)

(the 1+N hits):just,the enemy's bonus*1,*1!(the first is *2,but the second is *1......)

(the 1+1+N+N hits)(the (1+N)+N+1 hits):(the first hit)+(the 1+N hits)+10*N,actually,this bonus can also been interpreted by:

for example,when the N is 5:
(the (1+N)+1 hits):10
(the (1+N)+2 hits):10
(the (1+N)+3 hits):10
(the (1+N)+4 hits):10
(the (1+N)+5 hits):10
(seemed like the booklet,isn't it?maybe you can understand something now......)

(the 1+1+1+N+N hits)(the (1+N)+N+1+N+1 hits):(the first hit)+(the 1+N hits)+10*N+10*N+(the enemy's bonus)
(As you see,the booklet's formula is WL's formula without BUG!not BL's)
(The BUG is,the first will has a *2 enemy bonus,but at the next time the bonus will *1,not accumated(without hyper the bonus will be accmulated normally,so,you will find 60hits' 470point will be less than 10hits' 550point,in 1-2&2-2 star area,beginning,WL)

In BL,I think it's weird......o_o
Also the rank system,I think if there are more ways let the diffculty of WL become more lower...... :P

By the way,prom,the platform of WL's console is PS2......:P,I had bought the DOJ's PS2 DVD before(with LAOS osada sennin's DVD)so I remembered it very clear,but because of the input lag when using joysticks on LCD screen(on CRT screen or cabinet,there aren't any input lag),I would rather to play the shmupmame emulator on my laptop,with using the DEBUG of mame(actually I mainly play shmupmame4.2,because it's input file can be easier to been analysed by knowing some memory-address,such as 81B3EE(the hyper gauge's address of WL,1p),81B36E(the GP meter's address of WL,1p),81B642(the hyper gauge's address of BL,1p),81B5C2(the GP meter's address of BL,1p))

by the way#2,my area's WL's arcade are still fine(but soundless),but because I really hate the smoke of the arcade,I would rather stay my home to play DOJ......although less efficient,but more comfortable......


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 Post subject: Re: GD: DOJ system and strat
PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2016 7:48 am 


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Joined: 28 Sep 2015
Posts: 215
Location: California, USA
I just saw this guy on the matmouse stream all chain stage 3 in WL. I thought that was TAS only :shock: .
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 Post subject: Re: GD: DOJ system and strat
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:12 am 



Joined: 19 Aug 2014
Posts: 43
Location: Shenzhen,China
The Armchair General wrote:
I just saw this guy on the matmouse stream all chain stage 3 in WL. I thought that was TAS only :shock: .

All chain stage 3 in WL isn't “only tas”,but very difficult to implement,at least hitsuji,fac,wfl,sps can finish it,and if you had used slow down/cheat to practice it,it will also be diffcult,but I just succeed in save/load once and devote more than 200 hrs in it,as my point of view,maybe practice can handle lots of problems :P


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 Post subject: Re: GD: DOJ system and strat
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:28 am 


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Joined: 26 Oct 2014
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Ho do you usually do St1 boss? If i do without bombs/hypers, his pattern near the end when he rotates pods is most risky (and i dont talk about even more angry pattern he'll do if you destroy pods) - do you "ah shit ok i bomb" or you're that good with dodging? It's more chaotic compare to other patterns that he does. Though what a bit helps me is if i dont shoot during that, concentrating more so.
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