The world Today.

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neorichieb1971
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The world Today.

Post by neorichieb1971 »

I own shares in my company. I quite often read the URL's around what my shares are worth, going to be worth etc.

However, a lot of these stories from the so called "professionals" don't consider that most smaller companies get sweeping drops due to worldwide shananigans like wars, political union referendums and such.

My shares have dropped like crazy in the past week. My bills have shot up through the roof, I got a payrise 3 months ago but thats been eaten up by inflation and economic turmoil.

I find capitalism a bit of a disease lately, at least for the working class among us. In the past 30 years the internet has transformed certain folk into billionaires, whilst the western world is facing a housing crisis, food shortages and in some cases, a water shortage. I find myself staying at home most of the time, which is not really good for my health.. But at least I am eating healthily still.

I've still got a pretty penny in the bank, but my friends have not. All of them renting accomadation and living pay check to pay check.

On the news today people of Whitby in the UK protesting that only foreign bodies are buying up their homes. 19 out of the last 20 new builds were bought as 2nd homes and almost everyone commutes to this little sea side town where Dracula was born. Even where I am from, the same thing is happening... I'm 50 miles from London and everyone in London is selling up 1 bed apartments there for 6 bedroom mansions down the road from me. But the locals cannot afford those prices, as they you would need to earn 50x your salary to afford it if your locally born.

So we have situation where external funds from somewhere are making markets go crazy, but a normal paying job that you do for 40 hours a week is just about pays the bills.


Whats broken? Why is the world the way it is today? Why are prices in basic commodities like shelter, food and energy shooting so high? I understand that back in my day you could buy a Lamborghini car for 150k which was the same price as a house back then, but you don't need a Lamborghini. I see lots of Lamborghini's today, one was parked on a back street in my town among the other cars like it belonged there or something. So yeah, I am kinda confused by the wealth on display, vs the local communities struggling with everyday life.

The worst thing, that social media sticks it right up our noses. Everyone showing off that has it, and everyone that doesn't complaining about life. I sit somewhere in the middle.

Can anyone relate to what I'm talking about? How is your life compared to your families and friends? Are you one of the fortunate, or one of the unfortunate?


I'm only asking as I want to kind of understand if this is just local to me, or maybe worldwide!!!

Richie.
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drauch
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Re: The world Today.

Post by drauch »

Pandemic (which caused insane shortages/delays) and war (gas, food, etc) at the same time. Giant avian flu in the US started the Great Chicken Genocide (not sure how that's affecting others). Brexit didn't help a lot of folks over your way either. Just a lot of shitty things at once. I think it's pretty simple what happened: shit happened. My fawkin' anime figure cost 6600 yen just to ship. I used to get 'em twice as big for 1/3 of that. RIP anime.
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Post by GaijinPunch »

My shares have dropped like crazy in the past week. My bills have shot up through the roof, I got a payrise 3 months ago but thats been eaten up by inflation and economic turmoil.
Most peoples have. If this is a make or break for you, any analyst worth their salt will tell you to immediately sell all shares as they vest and invest in a fund. If you're worried about your non-vested shares dropping, that is just how the game with RSUs work.
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drauch
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Re: The world Today.

Post by drauch »

GaijinPunch wrote:
My fawkin' anime figure cost 6600 yen just to ship. I used to get 'em twice as big for 1/3 of that. RIP anime.
Sure the tits aren't just bigger now?
Well, I mean... yeah...
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orange808
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Re: The world Today.

Post by orange808 »

Pound the pavement and put every ounce of your being into buying your own home--even if it requires sacrifices.

Your landlord will raise your rent. It's business.

Provided you can negotiate cost of living rises, fixed rate mortgages will get cheaper over time and the bank will lose money every time you have an: inflation -> wage rise -> inflation cycle.

Most homes will also hold most of their value or appreciate, but maintenance may end up costing a bit. All the same, you missed the chance to see benefits from inflation. Keep in mind, inflation doesn't necessarily shrink home value. Real estate is decent at holding long term value.

Baby boomers made a lot of money on stagflation and real estate booms--particularly in places like San Francisco. I am not saying we can expect another boom like that, though. That was a one time thing. Massive leaps in transportation infrastructure, technology, and cheap energy fueled that. Although, some more rural or distant markets could benefit a little from remote work.

Don't rent unless you have to. A house is best investment you can make in yourself.
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GaijinPunch
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Post by GaijinPunch »

That's a bit of an oversimplification even in the US. Richie is in the UK - he could buy a house and not own the land on it. What a great fucking system that is. :?

If all goes well, that plan works and the rewards are amazing. The easy thing to consider is that real estate can and does go tits up, and property tax in some places most DEFINITELY goes up. I sold my place in Chicago b/c their knee jerk reaction to their never ending list of fist fucks is to raise property taxes and it was just too much risk for me.

The other main thing to consider is that you are more or less locking yourself into that specific area. Your kids still live in the US, right? Maybe you want to move back here to be closer to them. Now you either sell or your a transatlantic landlord (ugh).

To speak to orange808's point, the flip side is, if you get it paid off by retirement, your'e living rent free and just paying the property tax on it which can still be substantial but it should keep your pension withdrawals lower and therefore your taxable income. There is no way in fucking hell I am retiring in California b/c I don't own a house here and can't afford one. I doubt I'll be able to afford rent when I'm not working at least part-time. I have friends that make a fraction of what I make but will but retiring in the bay area of all places as they own a house or have one in their family.
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Re: The world Today.

Post by Hoagtech »

The priorities of the power grabbers are no longer human or economic based.

I blame the dark Sith lord and his frumpy minions.

Image

among other virtue signaling, money burning, fart sniffing connoisseurs in nerd power

Whose mainline priorities include:

"climate and nature"

"Society and equity"

'Our future is digital'

"Gender, inequality and Jobs of Tomorrow"

It's the obvious miss of the priorities that are right in our lap like:

"How do I feed my family?"

"How come when we take away tax breaks the jobs vanish and third world slave labor is enacted?"

"Where did all my money go?"

"If the whole world is broke how will this trickle down to the poverty stricken?"

"Why do our decisions lead to crime and self destruction?"

That's my take at least. Small issues exacerbated above the obvious for the sake of "STATUS" ..

It reminds me of the scene in American Psycho where they are comparing business card choices but on crack:

" Look at that subtle off-white coloring.... The tasteful thickness of it... Oh my God it even has a watermark.

The worst part is this the trend of the deciding powers of corruption
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Re: The world Today.

Post by Sengoku Strider »

My Sega Saturn portfolio hit its all-time high today. Stocks are for suckers, invest in things people will really need after the comping apocalypses. In all seriousness though, I'm vigilant for the bottom falling out of the retro game boom too. The silver lining is that at least if it craters I'll still have Soukyuugurentai to console me.

The truth is we've been in a recession for 6 months, everyone's just been trying to pretend it doesn't count. Which means we're effectively in a depression. And like drauch said above, we've also been slammed with 15 different crises at once, which are all making each other worse.

Capitalism has a couple of fatal flaws, but a big one is that the economy has to expand indefinitely, or it's a recession and a lot of people get screwed. We hit saturation on almost everything meaningful, but companies can't just coast on that, which is why they've constantly been reaching for alternative revenue streams. Movies, music, games, business & art software as a service; no ownership. Heck, Toyota even made remotely starting your car with your key fob a subscription service. Tesla and others want to do the same with automated driving. Every car manufacturer will become Uber, but with no driver salaries to pay.

And the Air BnB model showed companies that housing is a deeply profitable & reliable revenue stream, in what are about to become very uncertain economic times. Hence, buying up real estate everywhere and turning housing into a subscription service ('renting' is so economy 1.0). Because whatever else comes, people will always need homes. And unless governments are willing to get involved and get heavy-handed with it, house pricing trends over the long term won't change.

TL;DR: Buy Sega Saturn games, not stocks.
Hoagtech wrote:That's my take at least. Small issues exacerbated above the obvious for the sake of "STATUS" ..
Communist.

Environmental and ecological problems are absolutely 100% working class issues though. The entire US below the Mason-Dixon line is about to get massively fucked over in the next 15-20 years. California is already on fire every summer, coastal areas are receding, and places like Arizona are furnaces. They're facing fresh water shortages that are only going to get much worse (US government intelligence & strategic analysts are already predicting water wars in the 2030s).

The wealthy can just move and pay for infinite freezer-level aircon and Nestlé blood water. It's the 80% who don't qualify for middle class status, don't have the means, and vulnerable people like the elderly who are going to start seeing awful living conditions and actual fatalities.
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Re: The world Today.

Post by drauch »

"I don't care about climate/nature, but super concerned about feeding my family."

Good thing we got McDonalds!
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Re: The world Today.

Post by neorichieb1971 »

I own my home, well its mortgaged. But my friends don't own homes and spend all their money. They are going to face a crisis at some point.

I just think capitalism is a disease right now. With rich folk buying up everything that people need. Governments are not doing enough to protect people that make 30k-70k and are expected to live on that when the price of fuel is so high, rent is high, mortgages are non obtainable. I'm a bit lucky because my wife works in a supermarket and gets discounts and my mortgage is 10 years in. So my house keeps going up in value and my salary has gone up considerably in the last 5 years, but is it enough to juggle everything thats coming?

My son lives in FL USA and is going to be a father in a week or so. At least in the USA you have trailer parks.

Common sense tells me that food, energy and shelter should remain affordable. Rich folk shouldn't be able to buy the things people need, if they want 100 Ferraris I ain't got a problem with that. But if you live or were born in a nice area you shouldn't have to move away because rich folk like the place and buy everything there and push the market prices into the stratosphere.

Not many places in the UK have homes where you don't own the land. Welwyn garden city is like that. But where I live you own the land. I visited the Isle of Skye a few years back and the tour guide said that Londoners have bought all the housing stock there and the natives have to move out. Imagine you lived on an island up until the age of 18 and you can't live anywhere on that island!!!

As I see it, middle class and rich are getting a buffer from working class. Most of the wealth I see in cars seems to come from the property market.

I watched a video in the USA on youtube recently where the water line was dangerously low, compared to 2018 it was like 4 truck heights higher in 2018. I think thats a scary thought. Water is like something i've been used to being around since birth. Not a problem where I live, but to think places in the USA are on really low lake levels is quite scary.

I know gun control in the USA is a bit off topic, but if you can't fix that, what chance is anything else got? The common people don't have a voice anymore.
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Re: The world Today.

Post by XtraSmiley »

Richie,

I think the middle class is shrinking, and the top 1% is growing, but of course, that's a lot less people.

Yeah, rich ass-holes are buying things up because they can make even more money on it, forcing the average person to pay more. Inflation does NOT hurt the rich, it doesn't even inconvenience them, it can kill us though.

That being said, me personally, I'm doing fine. I bought a few CAVE PCBs over last 3 years, so I have that to fall back on if needed.
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Re: The world Today.

Post by Sima Tuna »

It's fairly simple. A bunch of catastrophic events have piled on top of the sinking ship of Globalism, and now a large part of the first world west is discovering what the developing world has known for a while now. This is not a system where the working class is going to thrive. The working class is becoming the working poor (and eventually, just wage slaves) at warp speed. Corporations continue to cut jobs because they have so much power they're not required to care about whether or not their employees get a living wage. If the minimum wage is raised, they'll just fire everyone and move overseas or contract out.

There are real shortages, and then there are also a lot of opportunistic, fat cat assholes jacking up prices just because they can. That's what you do in capitalism. When times are hard, you fuck over your neighbor as roughly as possible, so you make the most money you can. A lot of landlords are doing exactly that. People are being squeezed out everywhere. Essentially, driven out of "polite" society and into either some serious-ass wage slavery (renting a room and hustling for any work they can get to pay the bare minimums) or onto the streets.

Nobody has any confidence in anything because nothing is stable right now. Gas is $6 a gallon here. It's never been that high. Other essentials are high as fuck too, like basic food items. I buy cheap shit at the grocery store and I have seen certain items triple in price in the last three or so years. Items that used to be a dollar each are $3 or more now. These prices predated the gas price increase, and my suspicion is that many retailers are trying to hold back raising their prices even higher for fear of driving away sales of non-essential items.

Keep in mind that many younger Americans have significant college student loan debts, and the current economic disaster we're looking at now isn't even taking into ACCOUNT what happens if/when the government calls those markers in and resumes payments.

This isn't just a depression. I look at '08 as a slight depression. This is some Legendary Shit.

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Re: The world Today.

Post by GaijinPunch »

Sima Tuna wrote: If the minimum wage is raised, they'll just fire everyone and move overseas or contract out.
This won't happen. Not fully. It has been attempted to varying degrees of success. Any tech firm can currently hire software engineers or any tech position in India for 1/8 of what they pay a Silicon Valley engineer. But guess what... they don't!
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Re: The world Today.

Post by Hoagtech »

GaijinPunch wrote:
Sima Tuna wrote: If the minimum wage is raised, they'll just fire everyone and move overseas or contract out.
This won't happen. Not fully. It has been attempted to varying degrees of success. Any tech firm can currently hire software engineers or any tech position in India for 1/8 of what they pay a Silicon Valley engineer. But guess what... they don't!
Not from my experiences.

I’m a degreed mechanical engineer and worked for ConocoPhillips, Boeing, and GE. And mostly Boeing but also GE, I was working with almost exclusively India Engineers making 25% of their prevailing wage.

The whole building was full of Indian, and Chinese contract engineers. This was back in 2008 before the last recession, but I have a strong feeling, the incentives for saving costs have not changed a bit.
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Post by orange808 »

More productive to bring people on site. The terms are convenient. People get deported if they try to get a raise. It's not exploitation, because reasons.
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Sima Tuna
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Re: The world Today.

Post by Sima Tuna »

GaijinPunch wrote:
Sima Tuna wrote: If the minimum wage is raised, they'll just fire everyone and move overseas or contract out.
This won't happen. Not fully. It has been attempted to varying degrees of success. Any tech firm can currently hire software engineers or any tech position in India for 1/8 of what they pay a Silicon Valley engineer. But guess what... they don't!
I'm not saying it's some absolute solution and that 100% of all jobs, ever will be outsourced. But *any* job that a corporation can reasonably outsource to either automation or developing world labor, or to a cheap contractor, they will.

There will always be some jobs that can't be replaced. A call center in India can't fix your fucking toilet when the pipes explode. :lol: But a lot of the "job jobs," the inglorious, service industry, low-tier stuff? Oh, they can replace a lot of that. Not all of it, but quite a bit. You replace this chunk with automation, you fire all the veteran employees currently in that job to replace them with entry-level wage slaves on a part-time flex schedule, you outsource anything that doesn't require in-person work to call centers, etc.

Sure, it won't "fully" happen, in the sense that stores will always have some people working there. But how many positions can McDick's replace by switching to automated order-taking machines? How many corporations that do primarily online work can fire longstanding employees and contract overseas? I'm talking about things that are already happening. There's no incentive for corporations to play nice because they don't have to.
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Re: The world Today.

Post by neorichieb1971 »

I work in IT and India plays a big part in a lot of jobs I've had.

In the USA a big Credit card company begining with M uses India in the USA night hours instead of hiring night shift workers. In the company I work for now a company called Cognizant has its hands in almost everything. Contract work in my job in the 80s and 90s paid $100k a year if you did Over time. Nowadays instead of paying that they go overseas.

As for minimum wage. Its a con.

Minimum wage only impacts the working class if governments can cap costs on the markets. And guess what? They cannot do that.

Shelter - I saved up in 2012 for a house that cost 185k, with a government "get on the housing ladder" scheme I needed 5% down. By the time I saved up the 5% of 185k the house went to 215k. I asked why, they said "Demand is much higher due to the governments help to buy scheme so we had to put the prices up".

Food - $1 £1 stores put less in the packets if the minimum wage goes up. Look at the grams of chocolate, cookies and chips. In chips, you hardly get any in the packet especially in multi packs.

Energy - Currently at an all time high, minimum wage would have to double, and that would just drive the price of energy up anyways.

Fuel - The one thing most of us need to make money in the first place. An all time high.


If you want a family, expect to be hit so hard you'll be living with 3 generations in one house.

But I say it again, there is wealth everywhere I look. Maybe these folk are playing the game to get on top, buying all the homes and renting them out spending that on supercars/luxury cars and exotic vacations.

My wife now works in a bank and makes less than she did at Mcdonalds. Just to get the foot in the door and try to get one of the higher paid jobs. This has put a pinch on us right now, but hopefully the dream will come true. The world is turning into a rat race. I witnessed it in the Philippines, but now i'm seeing it at home as well.

When hope dies for young folk, they give up. When they give up, the world around you turns to crap. There is very little inspiration in my home town as there are not any jobs. All the jobs are in the next city, that means house prices there are climbing faster than anywhere, that you have to commute and pay high fuel prices. I don't see a way out for them.
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orange808
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Post by orange808 »

This energy market is the new reality. There is no global mechanism to apply price controls and rationing. Absent any other practical means of management, the market is the all we have.

Next, the thick masses will elect Trump and we'll get even more fucked than we already are. There are few levers to pull. This is not because the president is stupid--and if you think so, well... you might be stupid.

Windfall taxes on oil exports are probably the next huge policy step "on deck", but that comes with some hefty trade offs. We aren't at the trigger point for that kind drastic action. Should the energy crisis deepen, America could move against exports and reduce gasoline prices in country, because the nation has good domestic production, but neither Biden or Trump would be in a hurry to implement something like that--and the fallout would be unpredictable. It's guaranteed to create other trade and foreign policy headaches; you would push petrol prices up elsewhere and hurt your allies/partners.

There's no easy solution and there won't be. I understand the angst. I don't understand the lack of critical thinking and clear thought on the matter. It's 2022. We have an internet. The facts aren't secret.
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Post by GaijinPunch »

Hoagtech wrote: I’m a degreed mechanical engineer and worked for ConocoPhillips, Boeing, and GE. And mostly Boeing but also GE, I was working with almost exclusively India Engineers making 25% of their prevailing wage.

The whole building was full of Indian, and Chinese contract engineers. This was back in 2008 before the last recession, but I have a strong feeling, the incentives for saving costs have not changed a bit.
Don't know about mechanical engineering. Software seems to be the easy one but again, the Silicon Valley analogy proves this wrong. How many out of work engineers (mechanical, hardware, or software) do you know b/c jobs are outsourced to India? While their salaries are lower, it doesn't mean they are cheaper. There are huge costs involved, such as dealing with cultural barriers, time zones, quality of work, communication, etc. etc. What jobs are going abroad are mostly there. Won't saying it won't fluctuate but it's not going to be another loss at the scale of the manufacturing industry.
I'm not saying it's some absolute solution and that 100% of all jobs, ever will be outsourced. But *any* job that a corporation can reasonably outsource to either automation or developing world labor, or to a cheap contractor, they will.
I agree, but my point is that is largely already priced in.
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Post by emphatic »

neorichieb1971 wrote:there is wealth everywhere I look.
Social media is pushing a lot of people into life-long debt, because they are fed what they think is wealth all around them, but it's really just other idiots taking loans to buy expensive shit they can pose next to on Instagram. Things they don't really own. Don't believe everything you see - not even first hand like a posh car parked down your street.
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Post by orange808 »

emphatic wrote:
neorichieb1971 wrote:there is wealth everywhere I look.
Social media is pushing a lot of people into life-long debt, because they are fed what they think is wealth all around them, but it's really just other idiots taking loans to buy expensive shit they can pose next to on Instagram. Things they don't really own. Don't believe everything you see - not even first hand like a posh car parked down your street.

Sure.

By definition, a car is a bad investment for most people. It's transportation. It's a consumable and it will depreciate wildly. But, it's not hard to find wealth.

I can look up houses for sale and see a lot wealth absolutely everywhere. The houses aren't all vacant or repossessed. People are paying the bank note and the monthly expenditures. If any were rentals, the cost is likely higher than a mortgage installment.

So, I see still a lot of wealth. And, in many markets it's easy to find homes that are well under thirty years of age. They aren't inherited.
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Re: The world Today.

Post by Sima Tuna »

With regard to consumer debt, I think we're reaching a tipping point. Consumerism itself may be falling apart, in a sense. With spiraling costs, the rich get richer. While the rich can theoretically consume more to make up the difference, they typically do not. The poor cannot reasonably go any further into debt without relief. But debt relief on a national scale will have consequences for the government. Consumerist ideology, in my view, is living in its final generation or two. The consequences of excessive consumerism are being felt now and I hope those who come after us will have better sense.

I realize this is ironic to say on a fucking shmup forum. :lol:
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Post by GaijinPunch »

orange808 wrote:They aren't inherited.
The one that was sold to buy the newer one might have been though.
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Re: The world Today.

Post by orange808 »

GaijinPunch wrote:
orange808 wrote:They aren't inherited.
The one that was sold to buy the newer one might have been though.
:mrgreen: Oh now, you sound like that nutty pinko Thomas Piketty !! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

You're right. Inheritances do cover a lot of down payments on a new mcMansion. I imagine the actual installments are still very expensive.

I also know people that have received essentially free homes. While not new, still very nice. Some of them are humble about it and express thankfulness. Others are Republicans and we both know what that means: they walk around with an unearned swagger and disdain for others. It's difficult listening to a person with few bills talk about fiscal responsibility. As if everyone on the planet would "waste" all their money. I guess defaulting to that way of thinking is what's behind the Republican mind. It's easy to make good decisions when your needs are met.

I bit my tongue through a speech on "those people" and their cars.

Of course you didn't buy a fancy car, mate. You're going to impress her with the house. Later, you're going to impress her when she sees you have a portfolio and a plan. You're never short or without a ride. Never worried about the immediate. There's the future baby's room right there. And, the neighborhood is so nice. There's the school and park nearby. Such a nice little place. :-)

But,. it's time to brag that you didn't overspend on a fancy car or something else ridiculous. You didn't need to. The house put you hundreds of thousands of dollars ahead, already.

And, now, I'm supposed to feel sorry for that one's devalued investments? Nah. Not something I care to discuss. "Sorry" bout that. You live and invest beyond your means and you aren't getting richer? That's really too bad. So tragic. :-)

No student debt either. Must be nice.

How was it earned? The right two people fucked. You won the family lottery. Good thing you outworked everyone on that. That one's parents haven't passed. The shower of wealth has not ended. There will be more.

I bite my tongue a lot.
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Re: The world Today.

Post by o.pwuaioc »

orange808 wrote:There's no easy solution and there won't be. I understand the angst. I don't understand the lack of critical thinking and clear thought on the matter. It's 2022. We have an internet. The facts aren't secret.
I'd say 30% live in a toxic, fascist bubble; 30% are too overworked to spend free time learning on the internet; 30% are either ignorant of proper researching or otherwise incapable of learning. Among the youth, the latter two are probably more like 75%, at least in the college setting where I taught. So many of the young are ignorant or incapable, and I can only imagine that that means in places where cultural fascism is fast growing.
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Re: The world Today.

Post by Hoagtech »

o.pwuaioc wrote:
orange808 wrote:There's no easy solution and there won't be. I understand the angst. I don't understand the lack of critical thinking and clear thought on the matter. It's 2022. We have an internet. The facts aren't secret.
I'd say 30% live in a toxic, fascist bubble; 30% are too overworked to spend free time learning on the internet; 30% are either ignorant of proper researching or otherwise incapable of learning. Among the youth, the latter two are probably more like 75%, at least in the college setting where I taught. So many of the young are ignorant or incapable, and I can only imagine that that means in places where cultural fascism is fast growing.
You seem bothered by society and success. I don't believe for a second that 30% of people are overworked. If that was the case. Every single restaurant in America wouldn't have a Now hiring sign offering a job that pays $150 in tips for a 6 hour shift.

you cant even find a "ditch digger" for less than $25 an hour and $75 if its a foreman with a crew of diggers.

The problem with society is those that accuse the rich of being the problem and not the solution to our economy.

The top 1% pays over 27% of ALL of our income in America and over 40% of taxes collected.

I like to picture the world as an "open auction" for incentivizing big businesses.

The third world offers "slave labor" and "little taxes". Any businesses that choose to manufacture on our soils are doing so at major deficit compared to exploitation and export from their third world home base.

I hear the all too common ideology that the rich are fucking us but I think the rich are fucking the rest of the world much worse and taking away their incentives will just cause them to vanish and with them their jobs and traditional taxes.

I saw it clearly during my layoff from GE in 2009 where every good on the market was coming from a container from China that was being produced by slave wages because the technocrats were and still are interested in nothing else but a bottom line.

Complaining about capitalism not working while its still the most successful business model in the world is just burying your head in the sand like Orange 808 denying the fall of economy or society: {"I can look up houses for sale and see a lot wealth absolutely everywhere"} or Gaijin Punch thinking that Tethics exist in the technocrats minds: {"the Silicon Valley analogy proves this wrong.. There are huge costs involved, such as dealing with cultural barriers, time zones, quality of work, communication, etc. etc"}

If you want the world to tackle problems. Fill the coffers FIRST. The priorities are backwards and the modern policies are enemies of income

I don't think their is anyone alive that doesn't want a more reliable vehicle that costs them less per year to own. Its the drastic measures we have to take to get there (energy grid) during a double recession (covid, stupid spending)

We need to imperialize wealth collection and lead by promoting responsibility and hard work ethic.

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BulletMagnet
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Re: The world Today.

Post by BulletMagnet »

Hoagtech wrote: Complaining about capitalism not working while its still the most successful business model in the world
For whom?

Honestly tempted to split this topic and move some of the more recent posts to the "main" politics thread, but right off the cuff I am curious how you manage to split "the rich" (who are, in your view, despite having dictated nearly every decision that's led us to where we are right now, not the problem, but the solution) from "the technocrats" (who are apparently the problem) into two disparate groups, despite the fact that both are, ostensibly, doing precisely the same thing from precisely the same position, and would both very readily agree with your prescription of "nobody should even attempt to solve anything until we decide we're rich enough".

I would absolutely love to know, especially in an era featuring the most pronounced wealth gap in our country's history - which still finds the wealthy demanding, louder than ever, even more societal perks and even fewer obligations to anyone other than themselves - when they, or you, ever expect this to happen.
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Re: The world Today.

Post by orange808 »

At this point, hoagy has devolved to straight "begging the question" trolling. Bombard the conversation with blatant lies and see if anyone has enough time and patience to disprove your bullshit made up numbers. As if, somehow, the burden to prove your own assertions falls on the people around you.

Denial, indeed.

+1 with BulletMagnet. The neoliberal order of laissez faire business that leverages technology advancements (in both transport and communication) and simultaneously exploits "piece meal" fragmented global regulation is a bipartisan enterprise. You have supported this movement your entire life and you still do, hoagy (rather you know or not). You've been had. It's ironic that you can identify obvious communist liars, but you can't spot the same kind of grifters in your own garden.

Exploiting the fact that we have no central global government (that's impossible) and using better technology to rewrite the rules of modern capitalism and roll many checks and balances away was an assault on our capitalist system itself--and an attack on the success you boast about.

Furthermore, any defense of the American heath care system is the definition of denial itself. Market failure is well established and proven phenomenon. Only a crackpot conspiracy theorist pinballs ideas about that ignore basic understood tenets of the universe.

Even if your numbers are true for temporary construction worker money, you ignored the markup costs for the contract company. That isn't what the worker gets. You also ignored the lack of benefits and the transient nature of the job. You can't settle in anywhere and the company puts those workers into rat motels and charges a fee. The worker sees about $13-15 an hour and maybe slightly more if they find their own accomodation. That's not a living wage.

Classy move calling people that do jobs we need done "ditch diggers"...
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Re: The world Today.

Post by o.pwuaioc »

orange808 wrote:At this point, hoagy has devolved to straight "begging the question" trolling. Bombard the conversation with blatant lies and see if anyone has enough time and patience to disprove your bullshit made up numbers. As if, somehow, the burden to prove your own assertions falls on the people around you.
When you have to resort to arguing with memes, you know there isn't much thoughtful analysis to be found.
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Hoagtech
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Re: The world Today.

Post by Hoagtech »

BulletMagnet wrote:
Hoagtech wrote: Complaining about capitalism not working while its still the most successful business model in the world
For whom?

Honestly tempted to split this topic and move some of the more recent posts to the "main" politics thread, but right off the cuff I am curious how you manage to split "the rich" (who are, in your view, despite having dictated nearly every decision that's led us to where we are right now, not the problem, but the solution) from "the technocrats" (who are apparently the problem) into two disparate groups, despite the fact that both are, ostensibly, doing precisely the same thing from precisely the same position, and would both very readily agree with your prescription of "nobody should even attempt to solve anything until we decide we're rich enough".

I would absolutely love to know, especially in an era featuring the most pronounced wealth gap in our country's history - which still finds the wealthy demanding, louder than ever, even more societal perks and even fewer obligations to anyone other than themselves - when they, or you, ever expect this to happen.
Well at least you took the time to read. My point was that the rich people ball coddling sport is a necessity because of the effect of jobs and wealth they distribute to their country of business. And the repercussions of accountability are slavery.

I'm not here to "praise the banks". I just get sick of people complaining about the rich and the sport without seeing the bottom fall out with any substitution for capitalism. ITs just another goth kid hating his parents in my book.

@turtles.. "begging the question" is making loaded statements. My 1% were just copy pasta and can easily proven or disproven by a simple google search. You call me a denier? So far you have denied everything from a rise in crime, drug overdoses, and now the collapse the economy? Last time I shared the same stats YOU did from the CDC, and you still didn't read them and argued with me. I don't know where you live, but I want to be your neighbor and dance with your Lorax..

@o.pwuaioc Who are you? Either way you lost me at "cultural fascism is fast growing" Good luck on your journeys as an ANTICULFA..
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