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 Post subject: Streets of Rage 4
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:14 pm 


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It drops tomorrow.

I'm intrigued by the system where power moves cost health, but subsequent combos let you earn it back.

Dunno how it's gonna compare to the air-juggling madness of Fight'n Rage.

Your thoughts?
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 Post subject: Re: Streets of Rage 4
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:22 pm 


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I just read the Polygon review and they didn't even bother to describe the sound track, smh. I'm just going to assume the writer doesn't know shit about electronic music.

My standards are pretty low when it comes to brawlers (as I enjoy playing Ninja Combat from time to time) but they really need to nail the presentation on this. Not convinced they've done that based on what I've seen so far, but I'm keeping an open mind.


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 Post subject: Re: Streets of Rage 4
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 7:05 pm 


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If it sucks, just a reminder that Streets of Rage Remake v5.1 exists and is arguably the best way to experience Streets of Rage nowadays, combining the best elements of the games into one package.

I read an Arstechnica review that says score and lives reset per-level. Video reviews indicate the game may still have a classic Arcade mode, but apparently it's only a single credit (as opposed to giving the usual 2 extra credits per player). The Polygon review is the single most unintentionally negative review I've ever seen of a game trying to be a positive review, with it dedicating multiple paragraphs to how it's a mindless, button mashing brawler, and how this is such a good thing because reasons (???).

It's the same issue as with shmups; there's a misunderstanding about beat 'em ups that they're mindless button mashers as opposed to games where there's a heavy importance on spacing, reading enemy behaviour and punishing openings, on crowd control via grabs, etc.
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 Post subject: Re: Streets of Rage 4
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 7:56 pm 


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Well, the Polygon review also states for Sega heads "This is our Final Fantasy 7 Remake, or Resident Evil 3"

Which ensures I'm going to be $25 poorer tomorrow


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 Post subject: Re: Streets of Rage 4
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:02 pm 


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Location: Springfield, Missouri, USA
It kind of looks like a flash game with character designs from a DeviantArtist. Everyone looks so chonky and strange and almost fetishistic. Pretty pessimistic, but I'll wait and see from any of you dudes before touching this one.


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 Post subject: Re: Streets of Rage 4
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:18 pm 


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A headline from the ars review

"Doesn't look like a Flash cash-in, that's for sure"


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 Post subject: Re: Streets of Rage 4
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:38 pm 



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Just to confirm, the physical release isn't available for Xbox One, right? I'll probably still buy it, although it'll literally be the first non physical game I've ever owned lol (serious, I don't do Steam or anything!).


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 Post subject: Re: Streets of Rage 4
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2020 10:56 pm 


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Seeing if I can find a review that understands beat 'em ups. That Polygon is at least 50% waffling on about personal nostalgia, which makes for a pretty shitty review and even shittier because it gets so much so wrong.

The length of the game at 2-3 hours suggests concessions to modern gamers, just grinding out checkpoints and essentially infinite lives to throw at it until you "win". Arcade mode sounds more promising but I'm assuming it's still going to be lengthy and not cut down to a more sensible running time - also assuming that this is not going to be Final Fight in the difficulty stakes and that a strict 1CC won't be that daunting. At leaat it doesn't seem to have RPG elements and/or an in-game shop.

Will have to see if I've got a Gamepass free trial kicking around and check it out, unless someone else is going to take the plunge first!


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 Post subject: Re: Streets of Rage 4
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:36 am 



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I ordered the physical PS4 version, but will play it for "free" tomorrow on Game Pass.

It looks great and it's a great time to be alive!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uxiL4fPWAA


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 Post subject: Re: Streets of Rage 4
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:38 am 


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People are still expecting solid reviews from Polygon ????
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 Post subject: Re: Streets of Rage 4
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 3:00 am 


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My expectations improved a bit.

The pro reviewers have been gushing over the graphics team from Wonder Boy, but I'm more excited now that I found out the team behind Streets of Fury EX is on this.

Also that part in the promo video about the SoR-style "dancing" AI. That's definitely something Fight'n Rage lacks.
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 Post subject: Re: Streets of Rage 4
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:49 am 


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Some things I have observed from the gameplay:

  • Enemies sent flying will now rebound off the invisible edge of the screen instead of disappearing off-screen and making you wait until they get back in range. It only took 30 years for this to finally get fixed. I swear, this is the only beat 'em up in existence to do this.
  • Specials have a much more interesting implementation. Instead of always costing a bit of health when using it like in most beat 'em ups incl. SoR2, or how SoR3 did it where you got a free special on cooldown, here you get to use them more aggressively instead of just defensively. Using specials will grey out a portion of your health, but hitting enemies will slowly recover the grey portion. But if you get hit once, you lose all of your grey health. So if you know what you are doing you can output way more damage, and you get shafted if you don't.
  • Each character now has a new aerial special move on top of their neutral and forwards specials.
  • Picking up food/weapons is now bound to a separate button instead of the attack button, eliminating a major annoyance with the genre where you would accidentally pick up food too early or pick up weapons you didn't want. Though there's still an option to have it bound to attack if you're a purist. There's also a separate button to do back attacks as well.
  • There's a proper combo and juggle system now. The longer your combos, the more points you get, and the more points you get means you get more lives. It's a welcome improvement over most SoRs where you could keep enemies perpetually stunlocked by rhythmically spamming jabs and slowly whittle their health down, which was fucking boring. Though this scoring system does sound abusable for farming lives if you're a combolord.
  • Enemies will eventually get knocked down if you try to stunlock them with jabs, so say goodbye to infinite stunlocking.
  • When you run out of lives, you have to retry from the start of the stage instead of the whole game, so profligates that are averse to the idea of being able to consistently win through 50 minutes of gameplay without losing all lives can rejoice. But you do only start each stage with 1 life, and lives do not carry over. Thankfully there's still an Arcade Mode for people like me which make you do the whole game on one continue.
  • Weapon degradation is now tied to how often you hit things with it instead of how often you get knocked down while using it, which is good; this means you can't constantly outrange enemies by sticking to one weapon in a genre all about spacing.
  • Some weapons when thrown will rebound off enemies and objects, and can be picked up mid-air. This also includes projectiles that enemies throw at you.
  • You can switch which character to play between stages.
  • Enemies telegraph their attacks way more often, which is actually a major rarity in beat 'em ups since most attacks aren't reactable to begin with. So Y. Signals will glow red before moving in to throw you, and bosses having hyper armor is signified by them glowing white.
  • Cherry is the only character able to run, and Adam has a very spammable dash. Quite frankly, dashing would make powerhouses character too broken by letting them use heavy-damage moves without the risk of being unable to reposition as fast when they get cocky, and it helps make the speedy characters stand out compared to the slow ones. In the case of Floyd, the slowest character in the game, it's a bit redundant when he can just GET OVER HERE enemies.
  • Adam is the most well-rounded character and probably the best one to make up for his long-ass absence.
  • There's online co-op. Nobody can tell yet how good the netcode is, though. Also online co-op isn't available for the GoG version for some reason.
  • No playable Ash and Roo (Roo can be seen in the background tending to his own bar). Australians and gays will have to sit this one out.
  • There's apparently up to 12 stages and an Arcade Mode run can last up to 2 hours.

The weirdest thing is that Blaze, a 30+ yo fit Latina MILF, sounds like a loli for some reason.
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 Post subject: Re: Streets of Rage 4
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:11 pm 



Joined: 20 Apr 2018
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Location: St Louis, IL, USA
Durandal wrote:
Some things I have observed from the gameplay:

  • Enemies sent flying will now rebound off the invisible edge of the screen instead of disappearing off-screen and making you wait until they get back in range. It only took 30 years for this to finally get fixed. I swear, this is the only beat 'em up in existence to do this.
  • Specials have a much more interesting implementation. Instead of always costing a bit of health when using it like in most beat 'em ups incl. SoR2, or how SoR3 did it where you got a free special on cooldown, here you get to use them more aggressively instead of just defensively. Using specials will grey out a portion of your health, but hitting enemies will slowly recover the grey portion. But if you get hit once, you lose all of your grey health. So if you know what you are doing you can output way more damage, and you get shafted if you don't.
  • Each character now has a new aerial special move on top of their neutral and forwards specials.
  • Picking up food/weapons is now bound to a separate button instead of the attack button, eliminating a major annoyance with the genre where you would accidentally pick up food too early or pick up weapons you didn't want. Though there's still an option to have it bound to attack if you're a purist. There's also a separate button to do back attacks as well.
  • There's a proper combo and juggle system now. The longer your combos, the more points you get, and the more points you get means you get more lives. It's a welcome improvement over most SoRs where you could keep enemies perpetually stunlocked by rhythmically spamming jabs and slowly whittle their health down, which was fucking boring. Though this scoring system does sound abusable for farming lives if you're a combolord.
  • Enemies will eventually get knocked down if you try to stunlock them with jabs, so say goodbye to infinite stunlocking.
  • When you run out of lives, you have to retry from the start of the stage instead of the whole game, so profligates that are averse to the idea of being able to consistently win through 50 minutes of gameplay without losing all lives can rejoice. But you do only start each stage with 1 life, and lives do not carry over. Thankfully there's still an Arcade Mode for people like me which make you do the whole game on one continue.
  • Weapon degradation is now tied to how often you hit things with it instead of how often you get knocked down while using it, which is good; this means you can't constantly outrange enemies by sticking to one weapon in a genre all about spacing.
  • Some weapons when thrown will rebound off enemies and objects, and can be picked up mid-air. This also includes projectiles that enemies throw at you.
  • You can switch which character to play between stages.
  • Enemies telegraph their attacks way more often, which is actually a major rarity in beat 'em ups since most attacks aren't reactable to begin with. So Y. Signals will glow red before moving in to throw you, and bosses having hyper armor is signified by them glowing white.
  • Cherry is the only character able to run, and Adam has a very spammable dash. Quite frankly, dashing would make powerhouses character too broken by letting them use heavy-damage moves without the risk of being unable to reposition as fast when they get cocky, and it helps make the speedy characters stand out compared to the slow ones. In the case of Floyd, the slowest character in the game, it's a bit redundant when he can just GET OVER HERE enemies.
  • Adam is the most well-rounded character and probably the best one to make up for his long-ass absence.
  • There's online co-op. Nobody can tell yet how good the netcode is, though. Also online co-op isn't available for the GoG version for some reason.
  • No playable Ash and Roo (Roo can be seen in the background tending to his own bar). Australians and gays will have to sit this one out.
  • There's apparently up to 12 stages and an Arcade Mode run can last up to 2 hours.

The weirdest thing is that Blaze, a 30+ yo fit Latina MILF, sounds like a loli for some reason.


Wow, great write up, thank you!


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 Post subject: Re: Streets of Rage 4
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:16 pm 



Joined: 01 Aug 2009
Posts: 256
Location: The Netherlands
Seems like a great fit for gen Z, it looks like shit. Gameplay-wise it looks more like a bastardchild born out of wedlock than a proper sequel, this is not it.


Last edited by spmbx on Sat May 09, 2020 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Streets of Rage 4
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:59 pm 


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Only made it up to Stage 7 as Axel so far. I like most of the changes to the combat, Grand Upper is no longer a safe move you can spam endlessly, and the offensive special not giving you invincibility makes sense now that you can recover health after using specials, it'd be too spammable otherwise.

I can't say I'm a big fan of the hyper armor on a lot of the (mini-)bosses, as they force you on the defensive and make you play more reactively than proactively. So the first boss is like playing a match of peekaboo where you wait for the boss to do her uninterruptible AoE, and then move in for a combo, then wait for her to do her AoE again, combo, etc.

It's fine in limited doses in order to force the situation to reset on neutral so you can't just keep a boss endlessly stunlocked (like bosses being invincible when waking up after a knockdown), but I think the hyper armor was added in as a way to compensate for bosses being complete pushovers in 1v1 situations, where you can just exploit the weakness in the AI and loop them to death like you could with most bosses in SoR1. This is rather bizarre because SoR4 already has a better solution for this: respawning grunt enemies. It's much harder to keep a boss locked in a combo when you're being surrounded by Galsias and Donovans who will happily interrupt you from behind. So the Ethel fight has barely any hyper armor because the constant RPG strikes overlapping on top everything makes consistent stunlocking impossible, and the Nora fight (technically) has no hyper armor because she's always accompanied by respawning Galsias (instead she buffs them with hyper armor, but unlike other bosses with hyper armor, you can still grab them). But the first boss has tons of it because the first half of the fight has next to no accompanying grunts at all. Any good beat 'em up boss fight should feature respawning enemies, because as beat THEM ups are about crowd control, it makes sense that boss fights should have some crowds.

Bosses with tons of hyper armor would be more tolerable it didn't make them invincible to grabs, or if you at least had rolls to get out of their AoE fast enough. Another approach for hyper armor I thought was cool was that of the shield cops, who are immune to hitstun until you break their shield, but if you get in enough damage before they attack (or timing your defensive special just right to i-frame through their attack), you could break their shield and continue beating them up like usual.
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 Post subject: Re: Streets of Rage 4
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:08 pm 


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Finished it yesterday with my bro online.
Some hidden tech in the game and loads of secrets to unlock.

Music is shit imo. However you can choose the retro soundtrack immediately.

It does look ugly. However it's slightly better when you see it in person.

Axel looks great and has lots of details whilst blaze as thick as she is. Looks a bit plain.

Same with enemies some look great and have transitioned well to this weird style others look out of place and lack detail.

It was a laugh playing online felt like I was 5 playing on the megadrive . Excited at local 4 player.

The upgraded bare knuckle is in the game I am not to sure how to get it . It might be the same as 3.

Going to have another play through soon .

Also i miss the roll and dash from 3.

However adam has a dash I think it is strange how all characters cannot run. 1

And I unlocked sor 1 axel seeing him all pixelated on the screen is disgusting I am hoping for some kind of filter as an update
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 Post subject: Amazing Blaze
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:36 pm 


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Durandal wrote:
The weirdest thing is that Blaze, a 30+ yo fit Latina MILF, sounds like a loli for some reason.


Any confirmed panty shots yet?
I'm asking for a friend's scientific study of traditional continuance of strong females in anachronistic brute environments in popular video games from ca 1991 - now...
:P
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 Post subject: Re: Amazing Blaze
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:30 pm 


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Just finished it on Easy to unlock all the game modes. Then played stage 1 as Blaze on Normal and had a blast.

The experience is the opposite of what I was expecting. I'm liking the gameplay a lot more than I expected, but the art direction and especially the music are awful!

I would say this is a worthy sequel to SoR with all the positives and negatives that implies. This game continues the trajectory from SoR2 to SoR3 of better gameplay and worse aesthetics.

Ronyn wrote:
Any confirmed panty shots yet?
I'm asking for a friend's scientific study of traditional continuance of strong females in anachronistic brute environments in popular video games from ca 1991 - now...
:P


Worry not.
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 Post subject: Re: Streets of Rage 4
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:31 pm 


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It seems a purely nostalgia piece. Kind of sad.
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 Post subject: Re: Streets of Rage 4
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:43 pm 


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PSA: This game defaults Bloom to "off" and turning it back on makes a HUGE improvement in the GFX, particularly the neon-soaked night stages.

Aesthetics aside, I'm really liking the gameplay on offer. It's all little things but they add up to a big whole. I officially prefer this game to SoR Remake, undecided if it's toppled Fight'N Rage from the throne yet.

I suck at Axle. Can anyone give me some tips for dealing with the shield cops using him?
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Two working class dudes, one black one white, just baked a tray of ten cookies together.

An oligarch walks in and grabs nine cookies for himself.

Then he says to the white dude "Watch out for that black dude, he wants a piece of your cookie!"


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 Post subject: Re: Streets of Rage 4
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 12:34 am 


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First non-fighting game I've bought on release in eons!

Played a couple of hours last night while drinking, so my opinion is very subject to change.

It's good, but not great so far. I'll echo other comments that are slightly disappointed with the music and graphics. They're not bad per se.
Perhaps my expectations were too high? I thought the backgrounds were great actually, but not a huge fan of some of the redesigns. I'll definitely try that bloom effect suggestion. Good info.

I also found the gameplay to be very slow and overly simple, especially when compared to Fight'N Rage. I never knew how much I'd miss sidestep! I'm sure these are only initial misgivings though, and the game will grow on me with time. There's probably hidden depth there I'm not seeing yet.
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 Post subject: Re: Streets of Rage 4
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 2:33 am 


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What is with all the super armour in this game? It's not like specific enemies having wakeup invulnerability, or the ability to block (where blocking stops them from actually attacking when blocking). There's a ton of enemies that flat out armour through attacks regularly, and some that do it when warming up for a dash attack that goes diagonally and has tons of tracking on you. Your mobility isn't as good as SoR3 to quickly get away it seems if one of these attacks is coming.
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 Post subject: Re: Streets of Rage 4
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 3:19 am 


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BareKnuckleRoo wrote:
What is with all the super armour in this game? It's not like specific enemies having wakeup invulnerability, or the ability to block (where blocking stops them from actually attacking when blocking). There's a ton of enemies that flat out armour through attacks regularly, and some that do it when warming up for a dash attack that goes diagonally and has tons of tracking on you. Your mobility isn't as good as SoR3 to quickly get away it seems if one of these attacks is coming.


You'll always see the enemy flash white before activating super armor, and you'll always see them flash red before homing in for a throw.

I've not seen the boss you can't throw a single test-jab at to see if they're in a stun-vulnerable state.

And if enemies flash red for a homing throw dash, they don't have super armor and can be intercepted with a jump kick.
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 Post subject: Re: Streets of Rage 4
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 3:24 am 


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I think it's pretty dope. Here are my thoughts (note I have only played on Hard thus far up until what I assume is the final stage):

  • I like that they added a combo element and tied it to score while avoiding a heavy emphasis on juggling. Juggling has its place but crazy juggles and aerials would have made it not feel like a SoR game. Instead the focus is on positioning, evasion and throws like it should be.

  • Hitting enemies just feels good and crunchy, which is essential.

  • The ability to string charge moves into your combos by holding the button is a nice innovation for the series.

  • Overall the enemy variety and design is pretty good, mostly lifted from the earlier games but with some nice additions. I think some enemies need tweaks; hopefully they'll do a bit of patching. Notably I find the new biker chick enemies incredibly obnoxious since the higher-tier versions aren't much of a threat except in large crowds or mixed with certain other enemies but take forever to kill. I agree about the super armor too, although it's generally surmountable.

  • Level design I think is really cool. It's way more creative than any previous game in the series with lots of cool setpieces and interesting enemy/weapon mixups. There's once scene where you take out what seems like a hundred Galsias in a row that was particularly satisfying the first time through.

  • Difficulty: Somewhat easier than SoR2 with both games on hard, obviously the continue system is different but I was able to get through all stages up until the last one with 1 retry on my first go. I think Hardest and Mania should probably be good for those seeking a 1cc.

  • The bosses are pretty spongy on Hard which is annoying and feels like artificial difficulty; I'd rather they do more damage and have less health as difficulty increases instead.

  • Music: meh. Some tracks are ok and overall it's 'fine' but I would have preferred a house and techno soundtrack.

  • Graphics: They aren't what I wanted originally and they're certainly not on par with the older games in terms of quality, but the art style and animation quality are far more endearing than I had feared. The lighting and environmental effects on the sprites are pretty neat and not something I remember standing out or really seeing much of in many 2d titles previously.

  • Other: I hated the default controls, but playing on an arcade stick and setting them to classic in the Genesis A/B/C configuration is great.
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 Post subject: Re: Streets of Rage 4
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 3:47 am 


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Mischief Maker wrote:
I suck at Axle. Can anyone give me some tips for dealing with the shield cops using him?


I haven't used Axel much yet but with Adam I've been generally poking those guys once or twice to trigger their retaliation, then walking around to the other side and doing a full combo which is usually enough to break their shield which insta-stuns and they're pretty quick to finish off after that. Weapons also usually take down the shield pretty fast. Not the most efficient strategy and in big crowds I usually just avoid them until the crowd is thinned a little bit—they're very slow—and then take them out after.

What's everyone's highest combo so far? For me it's been around 70 on the final stage with Adam.
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 Post subject: Re: Streets of Rage 4
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 3:45 pm 


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Been waffling on this one. 16 year old me would have some strong words for 43 year old me. "What do you mean you're thinking
about buying it?"

After watching the release trailer, reading the generally overwhelming positive Steam reviews, and reading what you guys think I will probably pull the trigger sometime today.

Is anyone playing on Steam?
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 Post subject: Re: Streets of Rage 4
PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 1:12 am 


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I'm not an expert on beat em ups. Many of you here have spent many more guys playing than me.

That said I have played a lot of SOR. Up to and including the remake and some of its mods.

If SOR I'd what you're looking for this his the mark. It's not perfect, and I've only played the first stage four times, but they nailed it.

This is Streets of Rage.
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 Post subject: Re: Streets of Rage 4
PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 1:43 am 


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Game is very mixed for me.

*Default music isn't that great, very few tracks I like on it.
*Art is a mix bag with some good ideas, and also borderline cartoon stuff like Big Ben.
*Game feels cheap at times when people with weapons coming at you from a diagonal direction.
*The Story is Fucking Shit.
*Combat is mixed while I like the combo feature, you really need to focus on it for lives. Can't stand it all the time.
*Decent Replay Value to unlock stuff, but the original music kills the Replay Value for me.
*Not a big fan of the new enemy designs.
*Feels more like a homage to the three games more than anything else. Cant't really put it on the same level as the original three.
*I like some of the levels, but most of it feels bland.
*At least I paid $22 for it, but to be honest it feels like a $10 game to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Streets of Rage 4
PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 2:53 am 


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Joined: 08 May 2008
Posts: 3671
Just unlocked SoR 3 Axel and took him for a spin.

Those of you who want sprinting and quick dodges back, SoR 3 characters have them. Turn on the retro music and retro gfx filter and your character doesn't even look out of place. What's more he's actually pretty decent at stringing together some basic juggles (but not as good as his part 4 counterpart).


Also PSA: There are hidden boss encounters throughout the game. The way you get them is whenever you see a Bare Knuckle arcade machine in the background, somewhere nearby will be an opportunity to pick up a taser weapon. Tase the cabinet and you'll teleport to the boss encounter. Note that tasers are single-use weapons for you, so don't waste them on some mook if there's a cabinet nearby.

Domino wrote:
*Art is a mix bag with some good ideas, and also borderline cartoon stuff like Big Ben.


Big Ben predates SoR4, though his old name was Bongo:

Image
_________________
Two working class dudes, one black one white, just baked a tray of ten cookies together.

An oligarch walks in and grabs nine cookies for himself.

Then he says to the white dude "Watch out for that black dude, he wants a piece of your cookie!"


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 Post subject: Re: Streets of Rage 4
PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 3:00 am 


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Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 2392
Location: polar malortex, illinois
That's awesome. I'm assuming/hoping Roo is one of those? Spent forever trying to see if I could unlock him.
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We here shall not rest until we have made a drawing-room of your shaft, and if you do not all finally go down to your doom in patent-leather shoes, then you shall not go at all.


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