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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2020 4:56 pm 


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I for one will not be surprised if I lose my job by the time our state's governor allows people to go outside. He keeps pushing back the 'peak' month by month. First it was April, then it was May, now the 'peak' is June... Meanwhile my job is getting money from the gubmint to pay me on furlough (where I am forbidden to work), but how long can that possibly last? Our state's strategy went from "reduce strain on the hospitals" to "eradicate the presence of the virus!" which is pretty fucking laughable because it seems like no place on EARTH has managed that but maybe Illinois has an ace up its sleeve.

At a certain point you have to ask "do you actually have a plan beyond keeping us locked in our homes?" and the answer is "No. Do what you're told." Meanwhile despite such restrictions you still have thousands of new positive cases in the state per day, but they don't really talk about rates of hospitalizations in those cases, nor is that used as a metric for whether or not people can start some minimal semblance of their older lives.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2020 5:48 pm 


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EmperorIng wrote:
At a certain point you have to ask "do you actually have a plan beyond keeping us locked in our homes?" and the answer is "No. Do what you're told." Meanwhile despite such restrictions you still have thousands of new positive cases in the state per day, but they don't really talk about rates of hospitalizations in those cases, nor is that used as a metric for whether or not people can start some minimal semblance of their older lives.


It takes up to 2 weeks for the infection to manifest. Cases reported today might be from actions individuals took up to 2 weeks ago. Thousands of new cases a day seems on par for the amount of diligence and precaution I've been seeing at my job at a supermarket, here in New York, where people:
1. aren't always wearing their masks over their noses, and occasionally slipping them off to speak or eat something (sometimes with bare hands).
2. go to the supermarket with increased frequency, where they display such habits
3. still continue to touch their faces.

Keep in mind that here in New York, wearing a mask while shopping is written into law.

The lockdown could end by June if people would just stop contracting the virus, right? Turns out that's not too easy for a species of numbskulls like us. This thing doesn't have wings; it's not rising up out of a snot droplet to go "oh, there's Leonard. Sinuses ahoy." It's spread by people with poor habits, both on the sending end and the receiving end. So, for as long as people continue to flout the good hygiene needed to contain a biohazard like this, there will continue to be new cases.

Seems like a lot more people choose a "who cares" attitude over being diligent and just following those orders, which would lead to a cessation of contact chains and the eventual starvation of the virus. This is a myopia of the highest order, since by now, this thing has probably spread so much that it's gonna still be around to target today's young people once they become older people.

And the more it spreads, the more opportunities it has to mutate away from an effective vaccine.


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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2020 5:52 pm 


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ZacharyB wrote:
It takes up to 2 weeks for the infection to manifest. Cases reported today might be from actions individuals took up to 2 weeks ago. Thousands of new cases a day seems on par for the amount of diligence and precaution I've been seeing at my job at a supermarket, here in New York, where people:
1. aren't always wearing their masks over their noses, and occasionally slipping them off to speak or eat something (sometimes with bare hands).
2. go to the supermarket with increased frequency, where they display such habits
3. still continue to touch their faces.

Keep in mind that here in New York, wearing a mask while shopping is written into law.

Here you could get fined just for being outside without a mask and the vast majority of people I see wear them even though there's not much people where I live, let alone in a supermarket


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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2020 7:52 pm 


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Bananamatic wrote:
You already have hundreds of thousands dead, at least a food shortage could teach people to stop overeating and buying copious amounts of food that they throw out afterwards


Not likely. You don't understand the obesity issue in the US at all. It's an education issue and a money issue. People with a higher income and a better education are far more likely to be in shape. The vast unemployment increase is going to make it much worse.

orange808 wrote:
Frankly, your comfort and privilege is showing. It definitely is complicated.


the privilege of making good decisions in life
[/quote]

The issue here is one of perspective. You are privileged to live in an incredibly homogeneous community and have absolutely no perspective on why things are so bat-shit crazy in the US. The US isn't a small country with a relatively narrow ethnic and religious makeup.

Which is not to say that outside perspectives are invalid. The problem is that your comments show an *extreme* ignorance of US history and social development. It's incredibly complicated and the reasons that people are not all staying at home or wearing masks are a direct product of that complicated history.

I hope you can understand my comment and possibly adjust your relationship to the question. If you want to understand more about why things are not working out well in the US, there are plenty of productive questions you could ask. However, if you can only see things in black and white, I don't see any point in continuing to engage.


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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2020 10:21 pm 


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Bananamatic wrote:
z0mbie90 wrote:
Here in Sweden they gone out with that people should listening to the advices. Feel sick stay at home, keep a social distance and do not travel around. It's more guidelines than laws. But that could change if people don't take responsibility.

Is anyone really expecting people to be responsible?


The groupthink is strong in Sweden. The trust in government officials is very strong with most Swedes. But no only this, scandinavian people rarely suffer from vitamin D deficiency, so our immune system's a bit tougher for viruses to crack. Especially COVID-19, apparently. Many of the deaths in Sweden are within the immigrant communities, mainly from Somalia or Syria. This ties together with their distrust of government, as they originate from countries with clan mentalities, and a lack of trust in government.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 12:36 am 


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emphatic wrote:
Bananamatic wrote:
z0mbie90 wrote:
Here in Sweden they gone out with that people should listening to the advices. Feel sick stay at home, keep a social distance and do not travel around. It's more guidelines than laws. But that could change if people don't take responsibility.

Is anyone really expecting people to be responsible?


The groupthink is strong in Sweden. The trust in government officials is very strong with most Swedes. But no only this, scandinavian people rarely suffer from vitamin D deficiency, so our immune system's a bit tougher for viruses to crack. Especially COVID-19, apparently. Many of the deaths in Sweden are within the immigrant communities, mainly from Somalia or Syria. This ties together with their distrust of government, as they originate from countries with clan mentalities, and a lack of trust in government.


It's poverty, language barrier, and lack of education.

Of course, I'm also open to honest conversations about the economics of immigration and the harsh realities, but I'm not going to get on the "blame the victim" trolley. There really are people that get shafted and they didn't do a thing to deserve it--and we (also) may not be able to make it all right.

Regardless, the economics of this quarantine are reaching the limits and we cannot afford to continue indefinitely. Sooner or later, we will jump the track.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 9:48 am 


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vol.2 wrote:
The issue here is one of perspective. You are privileged to live in an incredibly homogeneous community and have absolutely no perspective on why things are so bat-shit crazy in the US. The US isn't a small country with a relatively narrow ethnic and religious makeup.

Which is not to say that outside perspectives are invalid. The problem is that your comments show an *extreme* ignorance of US history and social development.

I've read enough about it to know that the country is fucked and beyond redemption at this point and I don't think there's any need for further comments than "get out while you can"

Though to be honest, Czechs are fairly ignorant as a whole, we reject damn near everything and it seems to be doing more good than bad


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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 10:17 am 


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It would appear that Covid-19 also affects the brain, as Rand Paul - who, you may recall, openly flouted outbreak guidelines and got himself infected - not only continues to demand an accelerated reopening but that infectious disease experts express humility and a willingness to apologize if they're wrong. Moreover, apparently forgetting who he's named after, he demands said reopening in the name of all the poor kids missing school.

When you need such a shameless horse's ass that even a "mainstream" (whatever that means anymore) conservative won't do, call in a Libertarian.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 4:38 pm 


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Fauci has offered a doctor's opinion and submitted a wishlist. Fair enough.

Do we ask experts in other disciplines (economists maybe?) for their input as well? (No, I'm not suggesting asking twats like Paul for libertarian nonsense.) Or, are we going to let doctors unilaterally fashion our complete society--without a shred of documented expertise or experience with anything beyond understanding the human body?

How much can we afford? Where does the cost exceed the benefit?

Also, if we have people that ignore warnings about the cost of ivory tower policy, they shouldn't be held accountable because they are doctors? I can't agree.

Maybe we need to throw Fauci and Paul out. Neither of them is willing to compromise and do what's best for everyone. Fairness is always defined at macro level.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 9:18 pm 


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orange808 wrote:
Or, are we going to let doctors unilaterally fashion our complete society--without a shred of documented expertise or experience with anything beyond understanding the human body?

I'm not sure where you get the impression that anything like this is happening; as Fauci said in his response to Paul, and you yourself acknowledge in your post, his job is to look at the science and issue recommendations based on it, he and other doctors don't make policy. Beyond that, I don't know where you're seeing anything resembling fanatical devotion to said recommendations; the federal government sure as hell isn't in that camp, and despite widespread reservations from the scientific community nearly every state in the union is currently loosening restrictions in hopes of getting the economy going again. So where's this "unilateral takeover" by the ever-dreaded eggheads out to ruin our fun?

Quote:
Also, if we have people that ignore warnings about the cost of ivory tower policy, they shouldn't be held accountable because they are doctors? I can't agree.

This tells me that you either missed or ignored the main reason I bothered to make that post; doctors and scientific experts get stuff wrong the same as anyone else, but when this happens they are rightly expected to admit they screwed up, change their prescriptions, and try to figure out what they missed so they can do better next time. Contrast this with the Give Me Applebee's or Give Me Death contingent; they've been consistently and spectacularly wrong throughout the epidemic (It's a hoax! It's not coming here! It'll be gone by spring! It's under control! It's not that dangerous! Anyone who wants a test can get it!), but you will never hear them admit any error on their part, and you will never get an apology, let alone a change in rhetoric, from them. Somehow, no matter what happens, prioritizing the Dow over all else is always the right call.

(As a tangenitally-related bonus, of course, no "philosophy" I can think of has been so thoroughly discredited, especially in recent years, as the notion that markets, despite being just as much of a very deliberate and very human invention as governments, are somehow magically immune to error and corruption and should be deified as infallible; Senator Paul serves as a perfect indication of just how much good-faith introspection and soul-searching, just how much humility, has been occurring within the various "Objectivist" circles. :lol:)

As for consulting economists on this stuff, I'm not exactly at the center of that sector, but the bits and pieces I've glimpsed from there seem to say "yes, things are really bad now, but even in areas currently 'opening up' people are hesitant to go 'back to normal' with the number of infections and deaths still on the rise, to the extent this can even happen with so many jobs lost; now imagine if, due to opening up prematurely, a second outbreak occurs, possibly worse than the first, and huge chunks of the country have to shut down again, what do you think it will take to get people out and about after that? How many businesses won't ever be reopening if that happens?"

Which, of course, ties into the "solution" you've espoused previously on here, namely largely letting the disease "run its course" and carve whatever hole it will in the population; I find it difficult to imagine how, with many more millions ill and possibly dead (and countless others afraid to follow them), and thus out of work, the consumer base, or both, not to mention our medical system completely overwhelmed in the process, there will somehow be less disruption than we're already seeing. To be perfectly frank, based on your previous pseudo-praise of the virus as a "boomer remover", and no evident concern from you that testing will need to expand drastically to determine who is most likely to be safe to go "back to normal" to begin with, this strikes me as yeeaahhhh fuck yooouuu yeeeahhhh with its cap on backwards.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 11:28 pm 


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BulletMagnet wrote:
the federal government sure as hell isn't in that camp, and despite widespread reservations from the scientific community nearly every state in the union is currently loosening restrictions in hopes of getting the economy going again.


The motions are half-hearted at best and you're already complaining about it. You even went straight back to "science" there and completely ignored the economics--immediately after (disingenuously) claiming to care.

Your choice to lecture me with science while ignoring all the other variables and (simultaneously) complaining about any efforts to strike a balance proves my point. I agree with the science. There will be a death toll for getting back business as usual. I don't agree that we can continue down this path "at all costs".

We can't have one in four people unemployed at the beginning of a depression. I think you're tuning out inconvenient facts. You say you don't know, but I get the impression you don't want to know. You're comfortable.

You're also naive. Do you really believe we can flip a switch and go back to normal?

Also, why is every remark about white suburban life? The Dow Jones? The stock market is completely divorced from the economic well being of average people. Furthermore, smart investors will make money in the long run. This isn't about stocks.

We weren't in any shape to deal with this from the beginning. We have a hydra monster crisis with capital, health care, personal debt, and stagnant wages. Now, you want to unleash the worst depression of our lifetimes--and put all the pain on the backs of the poor (as usual)? (Don't pretend we won't go straight to austerity soon. That would be naive.)

How far can you go before things go completely off schedule?

Yes. The science says people will be at risk from the virus. We don't have enough automation to stay home indefinitely.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 11:57 pm 


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EmperorIng wrote:
I for one will not be surprised if I lose my job by the time our state's governor allows people to go outside. He keeps pushing back the 'peak' month by month. First it was April, then it was May, now the 'peak' is June... Meanwhile my job is getting money from the gubmint to pay me on furlough (where I am forbidden to work), but how long can that possibly last? Our state's strategy went from "reduce strain on the hospitals" to "eradicate the presence of the virus!" which is pretty fucking laughable because it seems like no place on EARTH has managed that but maybe Illinois has an ace up its sleeve.

At a certain point you have to ask "do you actually have a plan beyond keeping us locked in our homes?" and the answer is "No. Do what you're told." Meanwhile despite such restrictions you still have thousands of new positive cases in the state per day, but they don't really talk about rates of hospitalizations in those cases, nor is that used as a metric for whether or not people can start some minimal semblance of their older lives.



I don't think Illinois' hospitals were ever at capacity... or even that close.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2020 1:59 am 


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IL was getting close to running out of ICU beds (like everywhere else in the US, we don't have that many ICU beds compared to many other countries) at one point, but yeah, not that close, and the McCormick Place facility was never even close to full, but obviously whatever safety buffer you can build in is preferable to running out. That said, we tend to the think of the issue as 'beds' but it's a lot more complex than that, and the number that counts is really staffed, licensed beds.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2020 9:59 am 


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Quote:
You even went straight back to "science" there and completely ignored the economics--immediately after (disingenuously) claiming to care.

Quote:
Your choice to lecture me with science while ignoring all the other variables and (simultaneously) complaining about any efforts to strike a balance

Quote:
You say you don't know, but I get the impression you don't want to know.

Quote:
You're also naive. Do you really believe we can flip a switch and go back to normal?

Quote:
Also, why is every remark about white suburban life?

Quote:
Now, you want to unleash the worst depression of our lifetimes--and put all the pain on the backs of the poor (as usual)?

That...is quite a list of things I never said, and (especially that last one), if you've ever read a single post of mine in this part of the forum, don't believe, and in several cases openly attested to the exact opposite. If you don't feel like re-reading my post again, allow me to summarize the things I did say:

- There are, and have been from the beginning, concerted efforts across the board afoot to balance health and economic concerns, even if most of them are too devil-may-care for my tastes and not devil-may-care enough for yours.

- Feel free to criticize the scientists if you want, but they have at least been attempting to get it right, and willing to own up to their miscalculations; those who are demanding that we disregard the science have been, and continue to be, both consistently wrong in their outlook and consistently reticent to change their tune.

- As bad as things are right now, all indications that we have available are warning us that if we mistime the reopening we could very well make them even worse, for even longer.

Anything else you see me "saying" in there is your own imagination at work. I will, however, make an assumption or two about you in exchange for the plethora you made about me: I'm willing to guess that you're 1) Not in a group considered at high risk of adverse effects from the virus, and 2) Not in regular proximity with a family member or the like who is. That's why I'm always skeptical of "everyone needs to be willing to make the ultimate sacrifice" rhetoric whenever it inevitably pops up; in almost every case it can be rendered impotent with two words, namely "after you."
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2020 1:31 pm 


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Is anyone else upset about the mass graves for pigs?

Pig farmers can't package meat, so they are slaughtering all their pigs they can't afford to feed anymore. They are just rounding em all up and burning them alive and crap like that. Some of the farmers are getting seriously traumatized.


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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2020 3:29 pm 


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BulletMagnet wrote:
That...is quite a list of things I never said, and (especially that last one), if you've ever read a single post of mine in this part of the forum, don't believe, and in several cases openly attested to the exact opposite. If you don't feel like re-reading my post again, allow me to summarize the things I did say:

Ironic that you would open your post complaining about "things I never said" and continue forward by doing the same to me. Like telling me I'm against the science, because I don't support 100% on your wishlist.

BulletMagnet wrote:
- There are, and have been from the beginning, concerted efforts across the board afoot to balance health and economic concerns, even if most of them are too devil-may-care for my tastes and not devil-may-care enough for yours.

First of all, no. This thread has been and continues to be a list of MSM scare material and cheerleading--coupled with glib dismissal of the economic costs. Time and again, the fact that it doesn't affect you directly today makes you (somehow) believe it doesn't matter. You clearly have no concerns about the economics. Mentioning stocks drives that home. You're comfortable and all you care about is the people close by--who are also comfortable.

You also believe in meritocracy and you think you earned it.

As a whole, this thread doesn't understand the complete lack of any social safety net in America. There's also no time or resources to build one right now. When you tell a nation that runs on the "get a job" motto they can't work, things go in the pot quickly. Even if cronyism wasn't syphoning out all the aid money, we don't have a framework in place to distribute aid. "Get a job."

Did I mention that the American economy drags the rest of the world along with it?

BulletMagnet wrote:
- Feel free to criticize the scientists if you want, but they have at least been attempting to get it right, and willing to own up to their miscalculations; those who are demanding that we disregard the science have been, and continue to be, both consistently wrong in their outlook and consistently reticent to change their tune.

I criticised the cost/benefit, not the science. Also, it's golden to hear Americans say how much every human life matters--when we (as a nation) gladly sacrifice human lives everyday. Of course, some lives are more important than others? Of course, grans must live another month! She earned it!

BulletMagnet wrote:
- As bad as things are right now, all indications that we have available are warning us that if we mistime the reopening we could very well make them even worse, for even longer.

No. Unemployment will continue to balloon even after reopening. We haven't hit bottom yet. We could literally open tomorrow and the jobless would continue to grow.

We also have no infrastructure to handle long term unemployment in a "get a job or die" nation. And, it really is a "get a job or die" world. Maybe you've been coddled?

BulletMagnet wrote:
Anything else you see me "saying" in there is your own imagination at work.

Right back at you.

BulletMagnet wrote:
I will, however, make an assumption or two about you in exchange for the plethora you made about me: I'm willing to guess that you're 1) Not in a group considered at high risk of adverse effects from the virus,

You're well off, white, employed, working from your laptop, you believe in meritocracy (you earned it), and you say nasty things about "burger flippers" and "those people" (subtle code words you use).

BulletMagnet wrote:
and 2) Not in regular proximity with a family member or the like who is. That's why I'm always skeptical of "everyone needs to be willing to make the ultimate sacrifice" rhetoric whenever it inevitably pops up; in almost every case it can be rendered impotent with two words, namely "after you."


I have family at risk. Everyone does. For the older ones, that's what happens when you get over 80 years old and your immune system doesn't do its job.

The three younger ones need to self quarantine. Unfortunately, we don't have the safety net to help them properly. Then again, I don't think it's necessarily fair to destroy the economy for a few people I know and hurt thousands of other people, because fairness always happens at a macro level. It's about everyone. Welcome to society. Maybe we should try building one someday with health care and a real social safety net; then, we could afford to help everyone more.

Once again, the delayed nature of this, the fact that it will hurt poor people you hate (because they are poor), the fact that strangers don't matter to you, and your comfort all distort your own view. The virus is the only threat to you and the economy is delayed anyhow, so you're all good. :)
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2020 11:29 pm 


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Well, the Rubicon has once again been crossed, as always inevitably happens. :lol: As per usual, if anyone else wants to attempt to make actual sense of any of this they can feel free, but I'll just respond to one segment that I'm fairly confident in my knowledge of:

orange808 wrote:
You're well off, white, employed, working from your laptop, you believe in meritocracy (you earned it), and you say nasty things about "burger flippers" and "those people" (subtle code words you use).

Okay, so, two of your darts - namely "white" and "employed" - managed to land somewhere on the board. Otherwise, I'm afraid to say, you are once again neck-deep in guess what dipshit. :lol:

In case you're actually interested, I'm a manufacturing worker - I solder circuit boards and wire electrical cabinets for a living, and am also considered an "essential" employee in my state, so save a two-week shutdown in April when someone at work tested positive for the virus I've been driving in every day, mask on my face, same as everyone else at my company. While I'm grateful to have a paycheck, I'm also worried about bringing the virus home to my mother, who's turning 70 next year; why am I with my mother, you ask? Because I'm currently hoping my number eventually comes up in the local low-income housing lottery, which my salary qualifies me for with room up top to spare. Plenty of people have it far worse than me, but you can still take your out-of-thin-air novelization and kindly shove it.

Now, there was no way you could even pretend to know any of this, so you were obviously just pulling stuff out of your ass concerning my IRL situation, and were almost certain to be wrong no matter what; now, however, we arrive at your assumptions about my political and social views, which I've been yammering on about on this very forum for the better part of twenty years, and were thus at your fingertips to take even a cursory look at, if you actually cared to so much as minimally inform your indignant outbursts.

It wouldn't have taken you long to figure out that attempting to stamp me with such a mindset would be, to say the least, inadvisable; instead, of course, whether due to ignorance, dishonesty, or some combination of the two, you just made up whatever fit your preconceived notions about what anyone who disagrees with your take on the lockdown must be thinking. It calls to mind a turn of phrase from an earlier post of yours...I get the impression you don't want to know. You're comfortable.

I'll only add that this is the third time in less than a month that a member of the forum has called you out for making completely unfounded assumptions about them in order to paint their stance on the pandemic response as unreasonable and/or mean-spirited; now we get to see whether you, after several non-attempts, can finally bring yourself to defy your own cadre's aforementioned stereotype, or, true to form, just keep on flinging shit everywhere, without so much as a course-correction, let alone an apology, no matter how many times you turn out to be completely wrong.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2020 11:31 pm 


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vol.2 wrote:
Is anyone else upset about the mass graves for pigs?

Pig farmers can't package meat, so they are slaughtering all their pigs they can't afford to feed anymore. They are just rounding em all up and burning them alive and crap like that. Some of the farmers are getting seriously traumatized.


Lots of stories similar to this with other things too. Food prices are going to get high.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 3:44 am 


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it290 wrote:
IL was getting close to running out of ICU beds (like everywhere else in the US, we don't have that many ICU beds compared to many other countries) at one point, but yeah, not that close, and the McCormick Place facility was never even close to full, but obviously whatever safety buffer you can build in is preferable to running out. That said, we tend to the think of the issue as 'beds' but it's a lot more complex than that, and the number that counts is really staffed, licensed beds.


I'm not going to side w/ the "open up! freedom!" jack asses but I won't say that this shelter in place was done wisely. Pretty bad actually. I will jump on the Americans are dumb bandwagon any day (and most are) but there's no reason every business should not have been allowed curbside pick up the entire time. The risk is miniscule, and the benefit high. How Joann and other fabric stores were not deemed essential baffles the mind.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 5:11 am 


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Meanwhile we can enjoy the effects of becoming the next Detroit, plus a 5-year recession. While professionals and China-shills change their tune every day in regards to when the 'peak' is, whether or not a vaccine can actually work, whether or not you can 'truly' be immune, and all that other bullshit. At a certain point I have to wonder if they can't decide on staying at home like this is helping us, why are they still making us stay at home.

Does the state really expect to have us stay inside for 18 months in the hopes of a miracle cure? While we get fatter and unhealthier by you know, not moving and not getting any sunshine?
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 1:53 pm 


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EmperorIng wrote:

Does the state really expect to have us stay inside for 18 months in the hopes of a miracle cure? While we get fatter and unhealthier by you know, not moving and not getting any sunshine?


I don't think that will happen. Even in Maryland they are starting to do "safe at home" starting today. I'm not included because Baltimore is too poor to have sufficient testing kits and having enough kits is a prerequisite for opening up. But everywhere else besides the three hardest hit local areas are opening up today for inside business with masks.


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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 2:05 pm 


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Even staying at home you can go outside. Staying healthy is important.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 2:09 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 3:53 pm 


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A Wisconsin court has pointed out the obvious, that governers in this country never had the authority to arbitrarily ban huge swaths of people from going about their daily lives. But this was a 4-3 decision. You can bet that other courts will let such cases drag on for ages or rule the other way.

I'm not saying that temporary measures for dealing with a public health emergency are unreasonable, but the plan, such as it is at this point, is highly questionable. The massive drive toward authoritarianism is also FAR more disturbing than the actual pandemic and is not at all justified by it.

I was already working from home long before the pandemic, so I'm also not here to complain about losing a job or losing money or the government preventing me from doing X.

First let us ask ourselves what purpose is being served by all these restrictions. The initial restrictions on eg. international travel were meant to make the virus containable. That failed. The virus is now in every part of the country. That horse has left the barn. The goal posts were then moved and it was argued that we should slow the spread so that the medical system wasn't burdened with too many patients at once. OK. Now they've had two months to build up capacity and supplies, and no area of the country is reported to be overwhelmed (most far from it). So what next? Does anyone seriously believe that if we just wait a couple more weeks and a couple more weeks and a couple more weeks that the virus will be totally eradicated? Does anyone making the appeal to emotion "people are dying!" see a scenario where people will not die?

The next question is why does any of this require a corporate media campaign of drilling into peoples' heads that they must Oooobbeeeeeeeeeeyyyyy? Why does it require goog and fecesbook to step up their censorship activities? Why does it motivate The Atlantic to publish steaming dogshit like this? https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... et/610549/

TPTB are kicking you while you're down and they want to make sure that you don't notice or do anything about it. They already handed themselves trillions of dollars while tossing a tiny fraction of that to you, and they aren't done yet.

20% unemployment and disruptions to the supply of goods and services will have consequences. This will be like 9/11 and 2008 put together. Do you remember how the government raped your freedoms and your wallet back then? Maybe we could employ some more healthy scepticism and less tribal koolaid chugging this time?


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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 4:42 pm 


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ED-057 wrote:
The massive drive toward authoritarianism is also FAR more disturbing than the actual pandemic and is not at all justified by it.


So, let me get this straight. You somehow believe that centrist democratic and republican governors are power hungry and embracing authoritarianism? That's pretty deep into paranoid conspiracy theory.

They are doing what they think is going to save lives, and you are acting like a selfish child. I don't blame you though. Selfishness is the American Dream after all.


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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 4:50 pm 


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BulletMagnet wrote:
... just keep on flinging shit everywhere, without so much as a course-correction, let alone an apology, no matter how many times you turn out to be completely wrong.


Right back at you.

Like when I was called a conservative or when you said that considering the economic impact is denying science.

Yeah, a few people didn't like my post. Big deal. That always happens.

You are comfortable and it informs your point of view.

Interesting that you don't think people should apologise in some circumstances, but I owe you one. :) :) Like your views on the value of human life, the goal posts are moved for your convenience. Of course, when you think so, an apology must happen.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2020 5:18 pm 


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Save your vitriol for grubby conservatives that selfishly and disingenuously mention Sweden's much more sensible approach to building a society. (As if any conservative would ever provide education or health care for everyone.) Even their maligned senior care exceeds America's "I got mine, F you" approach.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/15/opin ... virus.html
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 12:34 am 


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ED-057 wrote:
First let us ask ourselves what purpose is being served by all these restrictions.

As has been mentioned before, both disease experts and economists fear that if we loosen restrictions too soon and/or by too much we risk a resurgence of the disease, possibly more intense than the current wave, and thus both health and economic repercussions even worse than we're facing now. Whether or not those fears prove well-founded to any extent, of course, remains to be seen.

Question for you: pretty much since the outbreak began, scientists and economists alike have emphasized that a major part of a successful reopening involves a massive increase in testing and tracing, so we can figure out which people are most likely to be safe resuming their "normal" routines as well as get a better idea of how the virus has behaved these past few months; as such, you'd figure that the "liberate" crowd would be particularly eager to hang their hat on this, and demand that every level of government was on the same page, but instead we've only learned that testing is, y'know, overrated. If you're as raring to get things moving again as you say, have you directed a fraction as much vitriol towards the "testing is someone else's problem" parts of TPTB as you have towards the ones who want to err on the side of caution until said expansion actually happens?

As far as opportunities for government malfeasance are concerned, personally I'm most worried about more de facto voter suppression campaigns akin to the one the Supreme Court lent an assist to in Wisconsin (on a completely unrelated note, Kushner says he's "not sure he can commit" to the upcoming Presidential election occurring on Election Day)...something tells me, though, that the Barbershop G.I. Joes out there couldn't give a rat's ass about any of that. Just a hunch.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 11:15 am 


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ashamed of how stupid i was at the start of this, but i'm the kind of person whose lifestyle has hardly had to adjust aside from wearing a mask and washing my hands slightly more often. i don't go out often and always shopped late, so it never wound up in my face and i didn't put the attention to it i probably should have - and, quite obviously, neither did the leadership of my idiot country. i wonder how many lives could have been saved if important information had been better disseminated and a shutdown forced a month or two earlier? we're nearly a third of the global deaths and handling this so fucking embarrassingly it's horrific.

up to 88k, now, and projected to hit 150k sometime early august. that's fifty 9/11's, too bad we'll never be as mad at our government as we were at brown people! there is absolutely no way to cut the statistics that doesn't embarrass the US to pieces, especially considering the masses of us deliberately baiting the disease to "own the libs" or whatever. man, i remember having a shred of hope before this decade started.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2020 2:37 pm 


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vol.2 wrote:
So, let me get this straight. You somehow believe that centrist democratic and republican governors are power hungry and embracing authoritarianism? That's pretty deep into paranoid conspiracy theory.

They are doing what they think is going to save lives, and you are acting like a selfish child. I don't blame you though. Selfishness is the American Dream after all.

Thanks for not reading my post and replying with no argument but personal attacks. And FYI: "centrists" are nearly always authoritarian in US politics.


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