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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 5:51 pm 


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CIT wrote:
Out of all the bajillion unlikely things you could've speculated about, you chose to make it about the virus being man-made in China. That raises the question, why?


I don't know, maybe because this is a thread on the subject, absolutely every facet of life has been affected by this, and the other origin stories of how this virus came about seem fairly unlikely in their own right? It could also be due to the fact that the only level 4 research facility in all of China is in, you guessed it, Wuhan.

No matter how you try to spin it, it's not unreasonable to entertain the possibility that it could have been man made given the circumstances. Obviously I am not in possession of a sample of the virus and a research facility, so I can't verify either way.

Since you like peer reviewed journals so much, you can have a look at this. Their conclusion is that the virus most likely either came from an animal other than bats, or that another animal acted as an intermediary. Also worth noting is this article from five years ago, which Nature has wasted no time in assuring us has nothing to do with what's going on right now.

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I tend to believe that your speculation is part of your attempt to make everything that happens in the world retroactively fit into your pre-conceived political world-view — but that's just my speculation.


My view of China before this was that they are a reckless nation hellbent on doing anything to gain power. Given that there are reports of the earliest recorded cases of the virus being as far back as November, I have a hard time chalking the incredibly slow process of informing the rest of the world to incompetence. That the CCP is running disinfo campaigns on US social media websites that they normally don't have access to is also suspect.

While I understand the value of peer reviewed journals, at a time like this, relying on them to inform your view of the situation means staying at least a step behind the news. Part of why this virus is such a big deal is because we didn't have ample time to prepare for it. Had the rest of the world known about it sooner, perhaps we'd be much further along in developing a vaccine than we currently are. As it stands, all anyone can do right now is speculate until a vaccine is developed, and even then I doubt we'll know beyond a reasonable doubt where it originated from for some time, if ever.


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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 5:55 pm 


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It isn't man-made. We've had umpteen plagues and infections. If I were to cook up something 'man-made' it would not be so inefficient as C19 - something such as Legionairres or Anthrax I dare say which is substantially more infectious and deadly than this for a start the mortality-rate is just too damn low to be 'effective'.

And no, no one would unleash a virus in the exact same place as research takes place. It has not been the case the last scares so why now? If you need big, bad conspiracies then why not go and write actual fiction or read a novel?
Context: Spanish Flu was far more deadly.

A degree of common-sense will get many of us far in life.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 5:58 pm 


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https://nypost.com/2020/03/22/39-year-o ... t-results/

Something something, only effects old people something.

Seeming to me like it's pretty damn unpredictable.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:03 pm 


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MintyTheCat wrote:
It isn't man-made. We've had umpteen plagues and infections. If I were to cook up something 'man-made' it would not be so inefficient as C19 - something such as Legionairres or Anthrax I dare say which is substantially more infectious and deadly than this for a start the mortality-rate is just too damn low to be 'effective'.


You're thinking scientifically, not strategically. If your goal is to create a hellish scenario for a nation or group of people you don't like, what's more effective: killing them all at once, or killing a decent portion of them slowly? What takes far more time and resources to deal with?

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And no, no one would unleash a virus in the exact same place as research takes place. It has not been the case the last scares so why now?


I said that I think accidental exposure is the most likely scenario.


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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:42 pm 


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A diabolical plan to create a small and temporary "mortality displacement" for people with particularly weak immune systems or heart problems?

Not a very ambitious plan.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:44 pm 


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Steamflogger Boss wrote:
https://nypost.com/2020/03/22/39-year-old-woman-dies-waiting-for-coronavirus-test-results/

Something something, only effects old people something.

Seeming to me like it's pretty damn unpredictable.


*sample size

Post real statistics.

That's like posting an article about a person being struck by lightning.

Something something something.

It happened in an isolated case and we don't have all the details, so it's statistically significant! Something something something. ;)

Underlying heart issues or other health problems could have been there without symptoms. "Healthy" isn't the same thing as "feeling fine".
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:57 pm 


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It's too early for stats. I also posted an article about what this does to your lungs. It can do permanent damage even if you survive. I'm taking this seriously as if it could kill me. If anyone else doesn't want to that's their decision, even if it is a selfish one.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:04 pm 


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Steamflogger Boss wrote:
It's too early for stats. I also posted an article about what this does to your lungs. It can do permanent damage even if you survive. I'm taking this seriously as if it could kill me. If anyone else doesn't want to that's their decision, even if it is a selfish one.


A friend of mine caught a cold at 29, almost died, and has a pacemaker now.

That's what an infection can do to your heart if you're unlucky. He's been back i hospital three times since. It's unfair.

Selfish? I can find some real spikes in mortality in Africa in the mid-2000's. You didn't give a sh*t about that. It wasn't a disease. It was genocide. Turns out, the most deadly threat walks upright on two legs.
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Last edited by orange808 on Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:04 pm 


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Way more effective ways to knock off the masses than something that has a mortality-rate of infected of 0.1 to 3.0 %.

Accidental Leak: doubt it.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:07 pm 


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orange808 wrote:
A diabolical plan to create a small and temporary "mortality displacement" for people with particularly weak immune systems or heart problems?

Not a very ambitious plan.


Are you familiar with the concept of asymmetrical warfare? Basically, when you know you can't win a direct confrontation, you resort to other means, even if it means a lot of your people dying.

Targeting the elderly makes perfect sense, especially in the context of America. They hold the most assets and use the most medical resources. Think of all the masks and hospital beds being panic bought right now because the medical system was completely unprepared for this. Think of where these things were most likely made. Think of how this dramatically flips the table of trade between the US and China in the wake of the trade war.

Again, I'm not saying they necessarily released the virus intentionally, as there has been a whole lot of collateral damage if that is the case. Regardless of whether that happened or not, the response from the CCP has been utterly calculated to such an extent that they've managed to get the one country with a higher GDP than them effectively shut down. That people want to ignore or downplay this speaks to our society's naivety.


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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:09 pm 


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orange808 wrote:
Steamflogger Boss wrote:
It's too early for stats. I also posted an article about what this does to your lungs. It can do permanent damage even if you survive. I'm taking this seriously as if it could kill me. If anyone else doesn't want to that's their decision, even if it is a selfish one.


A friend of mine caught a cold at 29, almost died, and has a pacemaker now.

That's what an infection can do to your heart if you're unlucky. He's been back i hospital three times since. It's unfair.

Selfish? I can find some real spikes in mortality in Africa in the mid-2000's. You didn't give a sh*t about that. It wasn't a disease. It was genocide. Turns out, the most deadly threat walks upright on two legs.


You are really going to tell me I don't care about genocides? Don't put words in my mouth.

Yeah life is unfair, you don't want any disease etc... What are you advocating here in regards to this disease?
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:39 pm 


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Oh and the Olympics have been postponed for now. I know GP was talking about how Japan really needs them so hopefully it still happens later.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:55 pm 


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Steamflogger Boss wrote:

You are really going to tell me I don't care about genocides? Don't put words in my mouth.

Yeah life is unfair, you don't want any disease etc... What are you advocating here in regards to this disease?


What would I suggest? Mobilization instead of stopping. Identify vulnerable people, quarantine them, and mobilize resources to take care of them. These are measures we should already have at our disposal for annual flu outbreaks.

But, that's "too hard". It's easier to just shut everything down. There's also the side benefit of using this fake crisis to stifle "populist" politics.

These nasty cases are a symptom of immune and heart problems, not the root cause. The ultimate solution to deaths from common infections isn't quarantine.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:06 pm 


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orange808 wrote:
Steamflogger Boss wrote:

You are really going to tell me I don't care about genocides? Don't put words in my mouth.

Yeah life is unfair, you don't want any disease etc... What are you advocating here in regards to this disease?


What would I suggest? Mobilization instead of stopping. Identify vulnerable people, quarantine them, and mobilize resources to take care of them. These are measures we should already have at our disposal for annual flu outbreaks.

But, that's "too hard". It's easier to just shut everything down. There's also the side benefit of using this fake crisis to stifle "populist" politics.

These nasty cases are a symptom of immune and heart problems, not the root cause. The ultimate solution to deaths from common infections isn't quarantine.


Fair enough.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:22 pm 


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orange808 wrote:
What would I suggest? Mobilization instead of stopping. Identify vulnerable people, quarantine them, and mobilize resources to take care of them. These are measures we should already have at our disposal for annual flu outbreaks.


Except... this isn't the flu. You can be asymptomatic for three weeks, possibly even longer. There's no vaccine yet. There's also a limited number of ventilators in the country.

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But, that's "too hard".


Unfortunately for the US, too hard is an understatement. It's downright impossible due to how ill prepared we were from the onset.

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It's easier to just shut everything down.


Bro, nobody in power wants this. They did it because they know better than anyone that the US could very well surpass Italy, even with the measures being taken.

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There's also the side benefit of using this fake crisis to stifle "populist" politics.


To the contrary: a lot of people aren't worrying about frivolous shit anymore. Well, maybe toilet paper is a bit frivolous, but at least I see much less bitching about the usual frivolity.

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The ultimate solution to deaths from common infections isn't quarantine.


This isn't a common infection. It's a virus that's new to at least 99.9% of the world. To act like we know the full extent of what it can do is presumptuous, if not downright hubris.


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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:53 pm 


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Steamflogger Boss wrote:
Oh and the Olympics have been postponed for now. I know GP was talking about how Japan really needs them so hopefully it still happens later.


Yeah, they're fucked if it doesn't happen full stop. Think of the money that was poured in (against the wishes of many locals). Generally those facilities are hardly utilized after the games as well.

They should have been held in October regardless, due to Tokyo's brutal summer.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:56 pm 


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quash wrote:
Targeting the elderly makes perfect sense, especially in the context of America. They hold the most assets and use the most medical resources.


Very morbid, but a disease that discriminately wipes out old people is what Abe and his clowns are hoping for. It would at least kick the can down the road for a few years.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:22 pm 


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Italy? Deaths in Italy started trending up last year.

We'll see what the numbers are at the end of the month.

What we have here is a common cause for slightly accelerated death from old age.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:19 pm 


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GaijinPunch wrote:
Steamflogger Boss wrote:
Oh and the Olympics have been postponed for now. I know GP was talking about how Japan really needs them so hopefully it still happens later.


Yeah, they're fucked if it doesn't happen full stop. Think of the money that was poured in (against the wishes of many locals). Generally those facilities are hardly utilized after the games as well.

They should have been held in October regardless, due to Tokyo's brutal summer.


Yeah that sucks but seems to be the way the Olympics go. Only a handful of countries already have the infrastructure/facilities in place (like the US).
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:32 pm 


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Most of you blokes are talking total bollocks. Get a fucking grip will you.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:15 pm 


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Just had the government text of doom, I'm back at work tonight after a week off(holiday). I work nights at Morrisons, does the fact it's a supermarket mean I can still work?

Edit : I think it does?


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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:37 pm 


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Mero wrote:
Just had the government text of doom, I'm back at work tonight after a week off(holiday). I work nights at Morrisons, does the fact it's a supermarket mean I can still work?

Edit : I think it does?


Better to call your manager.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:24 pm 


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I honestly not mind too much about this pandemic. Turns out that 75% of COVID patients are recovered. Just don't eat bats and washing hands at least once for everyday. Reminds me of SARS pandemic since 2000s.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:41 pm 


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A mild profit drop, and these corporations are on the brink of bankruptcy. Kind of inevitable when their value is based on speculation and not actual value. (~55 years to double your cash with a stock through its dividend is comical.) It's bitcoins all the way down; in the grimdark future there is no physical matter, only virtual gambling tokens.

Line go up, because TV has politicians saying they're gonna make line go up. And the trillion or so a day being pumped into line, not ventilators or whatever. Line is god. Humanity makes perfect sense.


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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:12 pm 


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BryanM wrote:
A mild profit drop, and these corporations are on the brink of bankruptcy. Kind of inevitable when their value is based on speculation and not actual value. (~55 years to double your cash with a stock through its dividend is comical.) It's bitcoins all the way down; in the grimdark future there is no physical matter, only virtual gambling tokens.

Line go up, because TV has politicians saying they're gonna make line go up. And the trillion or so a day being pumped into line, not ventilators or whatever. Line is god. Humanity makes perfect sense.

Get used to it - you sound as though you are from out of town.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:30 pm 


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BryanM wrote:
A mild profit drop, and these corporations are on the brink of bankruptcy.

On a related note, it never fails to astound me that "stay out of our business" corporate apologists who lionize the private sector as lithe and innovative and malleable in ways that government can never be aren't immediately laughed out of the discourse, as the second anything changes the first thing these invincible, forward-thinking paragons of self-sufficiency do is dress up in rags and go crying to Big Bad Uncle Sam.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:18 am 


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Why do I get the feeling you're talking about me, even though I'm far more woke on how the government chooses the winners and losers than anyone else here?

Also, the stimulus passed. $2 trillion, not bad. Now we have to make sure that people aren't going to get screwed by landlords when it's determined that we can all go outside again. Since the bottom down approach isn't happening ($1200 isn't gonna cut it for most of the country), perhaps the government could suspend property tax, banks could suspend interest, and have the next few months rent free as codified law?


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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:27 pm 


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And now there's the hantavirus, 1 guy on a bus in China had it, now 32 other people on that same bus with him have to be tested.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:54 pm 


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quash wrote:
Why do I get the feeling you're talking about me, even though I'm far more woke on how the government chooses the winners and losers than anyone else here?


B/c you're not. And...

[/quote] perhaps the government could suspend property tax, banks could suspend interest, and have the next few months rent free as codified law?[/quote]

... the fact that you refer to it as "the government" as if it's some singular, omnipotent entity that can swing around some magic wand drives that point home. That's hardly news though.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 virus
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:22 pm 


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Well, more people are getting the sack. Looks like it's just the essential staff and management staying on.

Somebody earlier in the thread mentioned the "expensive" management getting the axe in cost clipping. lmao No. That's not how it works. It's cute that you think so.

Hiring is a last resort, so I can't see some positions returning for a year or more.

Hope this was worth it. We'll see.

Four extra weeks of assistance? That wouldn't be enough if I was out in the street.
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