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About 50% of the French population does not want the vaccine. We really do not trust our medical and political systems

Anyone ever gotten an indeterminate test? I gotta go back tomorrow. What a great feeling.

So, I'm COVID-19 positive. Feels... the same?

Shit comes and goes at least for me. Run hot, run cold, muscle pains.

This bug is a sonofabitch. I don't trust it will let me chill with no issues for the rest of the week. But, I might have caught a mild dose or something. I hope your symptoms go away ASAP.

It happened to one of my student once. Had to self-isolate for some more days waiting for the second test results to come.

From what I understand, this may happen when your test is mixed with others in the hope that the whole bunch will be negative, meaning everyone who has been mixed is negative. But if the whole bunch turns out to be positive, then everyone has to be tested again to determine who was actually positive.

Some maths study shows that this mixing thing may save some test (you only do one test on the whole bunch), but the risk of having to re-test everyone is still here. Bad luck for you.

hopefully you'll just have what I had emphatic, a cough, loss of smell/taste a few days after your positive result (hopefully not!), and that'll be about it. You just sit around drinking lots of liquids and wait for things to pass.

It's slow but the taste and smell do come back.

Thanks. I still have all senses. My daughter has lost her smell slightly, my wife lost her taste slightly. It's like a weird lottery. I've been taking extra vitamins and zink all year, so I hope my system has all it needs to fight valiantly.

I’m with the French.

Conflating ‘traditional proofs of tested, known and understood vaccines for travel’ with ‘a digital passport that proves you’re taken an experimental vaccine so that you can participate in everyday aspects of society because you should be terrified of a virus with a 98% survival rate’ is Grade-A Retard.

Only naive minds that are ignorant of the history of science, government and power could act so eager to abandon freedoms.

Yeah, definitely, a big bunch of the French population is also with you

Yeah, wtf -- that sucks. I guess it helps getting stuff done but damn what a ball ache.

B/c you don't trust what the government puts in it?

B/c many people here fear the long term effects of the vaccine, which wont be known for maybe another decade.

There has already been similar sanitary crisis where medication was given to a lot of people, and later be found to cause more injuries than healing. So a big part of the French population wont trust the vaccine before seeing more studies on the long term. Tough world.

I do not think that the principle of action of the COVID vaccine is significantly different from the action of vaccines from other diseases on the body. To be honest, I prefer the low chance of mild complications after vaccination than the high chance of serious complications after COVID infection.

Still a year later people are shrugging it off because 98% survival rate sounds so harmless to them.
"hey siri, what's 2% of 1 billion?"...

Sure, a good number of patients who need ICU care survive, but soften regulations (mask, distancing, indoor capacity, etc) and go full anti-vax and see how that changes hospitals being able to treat all the patients. I'd suspect 2% will might multiply real quick in areas that have it bad. At least that's what I heard... from nurses in covid units.


[quote=Steamflogger Boss]
Had to just be a time I went to get groceries... I'm in a very RED state. At this point many other people are done with mask wearing.[/quote]

Having to wear masks to go into a store for 15min is soooo oppressive man. Next they'll want to take my assault rifles and start allowing kids to chose their own gender.

Yeah real apocalypse stuff chem pop.

I'm glad to read you US guys react to the anti-vaccine attitude (for gain ?) followed by about half of the population here.

The arguments of this half is the exact opposite of what KayBur said "I prefer the low chance of serious complications after COVID infection, than the unknown chances of maybe very serious complications after vaccination".
They do not fear that something bad has been put in the vaccines on purpose of course, just fear to be injected a vaccine that has not been tested extensively for more than 20 years on other people.

Also the "we sucked at negotiating price and making doses come here" does not help either : currently only 5% of the population has been vaccinated with two doses (10% with only one dose).

Something I wish I lived in the US where things seem to be faster/easier, but those anti-vax also managed to scare me and now I hope nothing bad will happen in the long term because of that worldwide vaccination rush.

You'll be back across the Atlantic in a hot minute once you get a real taste of our health care system. Assuming you have enough left to afford the return ticket.

There's some substantial evidence that the virus will give you that though. Plenty of people with months long issues that were previously healthy. It also wasn't designed by the French so that's always a plus.

More people died of heart disease and cancer than COVID last year.
2% of Earth’s population might translate into what seems like a large number, but there’s still a higher percentage chance of dying from those other diseases,
And we’re not re-organizing society/shutting down economies/printing trillions of dollars of funny money/re-writing laws/threatening civil rights over them.

Covid is a real disease, but the numerous power structures of our world are taking advantage of it to do what they always and without doubt do: Further consolidate power and wealth.

No one in power EVER lets a good crisis go to waste and this is absolutely no exception.

Humans who take anything that the media or government or corporations say at anywhere near face-value in 2021 are naive to a degree that their opinion should be stricken from consideration. They’re sheep being led to slaughter.

Furthermore, as far as the dangers of the disease and the threat of it over-stressing our health care systems goes: If you spend time studying Covid you’ll learn that there are a myriad of ways to lessen the severity of the disease by boosting your immune system with changes in diet, exercise and supplementation; ways that are (scientifically) far superior to simply “wearing a mask”, but that are ignored entirely by the mainstream media who aren’t interested in saving lives or defeating the virus, only in furthering the socio-economic agendas of the ruling class that they are owned by.

What’s your reasoning for ‘not thinking’ that the vaccine is significantly different?
The mRNA vaccine is literally new technology that’s never been tried before in human beings.
Anyone with even the slightest understanding of the complexity of the human body and it’s holistic, infinitely interdependent nature, should be (at the very least) wary of our myopic scientific fields tampering with near-foundational aspects of it’s molecular systems with novel and unproven technologies.

I'm fine with growing a few tentacles in discreet places.



Not a fair comparison for a number of reasons, both are often fatal disease that developed over years of someone's life. But I do agree with a lot of what you said, especially how covid is generally (but not always) the most deadly on unhealthy people, which gets to the much deeper issue of why people live on bigmacs and big gulps and then typically finger point being under insured or recieving inadequate healthcare when they are chalk full of disease. Still though, it's easy to say X is more deadly, but the truth is we don't really know how much worse the covid deathcount could have been if no measures were took to prevent it, if that makes any sense.

As far as it being used to influence the wealth gap, it's just mind blowing. I remember growing up and being amazed how so many small businesses closed when the big box stores started taking over. This is a whole other level though. The damage to small businesses in the last year is just devestating, we're seeing the extinction of them in my town.

You can't catch heart disease or cancer at the grocery store and pass it on to Grandma you plum.

It's the same sorta unhinged argument that gun nuts make, that you can murder people with your car so maybe we should make cars illegal too

Yes, ban all drivers though, because a few of them drive drunk.

Ah, the familiar chatter of two self-righteous, bent-over, bootlickers. Do you have matching rainbow-CNN tattoos?


Listen,
I think it’s tragic that COVID disproportionately affects the elderly (but hardly surprising, since most diseases do), but unfortunately, neither age nor susceptibility to illness afford you magic citizen points that grant you Rights over other citizens.

In other words: Their Right to lower their chances of getting sick from the virus doesn’t supersede my Right to avoid taking an experimental vaccine.
Thankfully, the federal government agrees with me, since as of this writing, it’s still against federal law to force any US citizen to take vaccines that don’t submit to standard FDA trials and vetting.

The tragedy of the sick and dying elderly is simply the angle of the story that media uses when it’s necessary to drive corporate, ruling class narratives into the heads of a mush-brained population who don’t have the ability to think critically and recognize when they’re being manipulated by appeals to emotion.

Governments/leaders/those in power always use such appeals to convince populations to accept the unacceptable.
In the case of the vaccines, it’s an attempt by government to justify it’s sovereignty over the biology of it’s population.
Unacceptable to any human with half a brain or half a heart.

The aggregation of power in the upper classes is a far greater threat to the health of our society than COVID-19.
Read history.

If the vaccines had gone through the "standard" approval process would you be willing to accept a mandate to receive the shot, or do you take similar exception to the "standard" vaccine requirements that already exist?

If the former, if you believe that the government is actively attempting to assert sovereignty over your body, why would it have made a difference to you if one of its own agencies had taken a different route to approve it?

I wouldn’t really have an option, since it’s been legal for state governments to mandate vaccinations since the 1930’s (if my memory is accurate).
Would I agree with it, in principle? No.
Would I agree with it in the case of COVID-19? For many reasons, no.
In the case of something like smallpox, vaccinations make sense.
In the case of the flu, for someone in my age group, they make zero sense.

In other words, I believe in the efficacy of vaccines on a case-by-case basis that should be decided by the reason of the individual.



The government is a very big, complex organization. Though all hierarchical organizational structures afford the ease of top-down-total-control, I don’t believe it’s been completely compromised. Too many moving parts, individual minds, and relative economic prosperity to imagine a complete lockdown on freedom of thought at every level.
Though, I do perceive that we are clearly moving in that direction.

I believe the power of the government, it’s laws and authority, are being used by the ruling class as a tool against the lower classes.
It’s as simple as it is obvious.
Do I trust our FDA implicitly? No. But they produce/review science; and though science can be shaped by the design of its studies, it can also be scrutinized. And that’s better than nothing.

The thing is, as has been said numerous times before, your rights end where someone else's begin, and vice-versa; you might not have an issue with getting vaccinated for smallpox, but others do, and in refusing to do so put not only themselves but those around them at risk. This goes double for Covid-19; as you say, the mortality rate isn't what makes it a threat, it's the fact that it can proliferate so easily and frequently do so without symptoms, thus making it far more likely to eventually find the victims that it can kill if enough isn't done to slow or stop its spread.

The underlying question, which of course goes beyond just our response to disease, is at what point the actions of an individual or group go beyond simply exercising their rights and cross over into reckless disregard for the well-being of others, to the point that the authorities would be justified in getting involved. It's not a question there's a single hard-and-fast answer to, but I find that a lot of "I know better than those eggheads" arguments have put little or no effort into taking their effect on other people with the same rights as them into consideration.


I could go into a diatribe here about how governments are simply tools whose actions and their effects reflect the aims and values of those operating them, but that would frankly go beyond the scope of this topic; what I'll note instead is that when you talk about institutions being "compromised", in the case of the pandemic you're not only talking about a single government, or even all the governments, but pretty much the entire global scientific community as well, which has been informing the actions said governments have been taking.

In doing so you wander into, among other things, an even farther-reaching variation of the "moon landing was faked" (or, more recently, "the election was stolen") quandary, namely the notion that a hoax was successfully pulled off which would require literally millions of people, in every country, including nearly every credentialed expert on the subject, to be "in on the con" to take away our rights and unwilling to spill the beans. And if that's possible, you can propose nearly any scenario you can dream up and the "rot" can go as deep as you like, since the lack of hard evidence now becomes "proof" of your proposed scenario.

There's plenty to criticize about how this pandemic has been handled, but I'd be wary of attempting to tie it too closely to a larger-scale preconceived worldview, especially when doing so forces you to either grapple with (or, more troublingly, ignore) not only the government's responsibility towards you but your responsibility towards your fellow citizens.