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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:08 pm 


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BulletMagnet wrote:
Considering that the majority of the SCOTUS was happily willing to roll over and die when Texas got minimally creative when it came to criminalizing nearly all abortions


Yeah but this is different. The government is bleeding money floating the citizenry. Real estate lobbies are facing a massive fight to recoup outstanding back rent, which they already know they're not going to come close to breaking even on. Travel and event-driven industries are on the ropes. Hospitals are clogged and losing qualified staff, which is a massive pain for the people who run them. And churches have been hit very hard by an inability to collect tithes.

In other words, whatever they say publicly, this hits Republicans and the donor & voter delivery classes in general where it actually hurts. And everyone is looking at this with the knowledge that it'll go on forever as long as concentrations of unvaccinated people can keep incubating new variants.

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You say that as if Mitch and company could possibly be any more knee-jerk obstructionist than they already are. I'd seriously like to hear an argument as to what's left to lose when it comes to engagement with the reactionaries (or, as I've posited earlier, even the so-called "centrists") at this point.


I don't think Mitch is all that emotionally or ideologically driven. I think he's just very cynically aware that he has more negotiation leverage if his default position is "NEVAR!!" And he can get away with it, since it plays well into their general tough-guys-standing-firmly-against-gay-communists branding.

When I wrote that sentence I was thinking about the regular folks who call in to radio shows still mad about the Clinton administration and think Scooter Libby was framed.


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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:25 pm 


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Sengoku Strider wrote:
In other words, whatever they say publicly, this hits Republicans and the donor & voter delivery classes in general where it actually hurts. And everyone is looking at this with the knowledge that it'll go on forever as long as concentrations of unvaccinated people can keep incubating new variants.

Somehow, though, both tourist-dependent Florida and business-friendly Texas have governors who are not only refusing to take action to mitigate the virus's spread but are actively sabotaging those who do, and others are eager to follow suit; more to my oft-repeated point, I'm seeing little to no resistance among those in positions of influence who, on paper, should be hurting as a result of actions like theirs and thus demanding they knock it off. But they're just not, and those who aren't merely keeping quiet are openly and loudly cheering them on. Once again, am I missing something? Is there any reason to assume the conservatives on the Supreme Court would be any different?

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When I wrote that sentence I was thinking about the regular folks who call in to radio shows still mad about the Clinton administration and think Scooter Libby was framed.

Honestly, it doesn't particularly matter which particular brand of conservative you had in mind; I'd like to hear anyone argue that you'll find any more good faith emenating from the rank and file than from the people they keep sending into office.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:54 pm 


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BulletMagnet wrote:
Somehow, though, both tourist-dependent Florida and business-friendly Texas have governors who are not only refusing to take action to mitigate the virus's spread but are actively sabotaging those who do


Funnily enough, despite the public showboating, Florida is at 54.6% of their population fully vaccinated - just above the 54.1% US national average. Texas is at 48.7%, which seems as though they're lagging until you realize they've actually fully vaccinated the second highest number of people in the country at 14.1 million (California is #1 with 22.5 million). And Florida is basically neck & neck with New York for #3 at 11.7-11.9 million.

I think it's important to recognize that both Texas & Florida's governors have presidential ambitions, and have been trying to ingratiate themselves with the MAGA crowd as rightful heirs since before Trump's electoral corpse was even cold. A proven ability to shout nonsense at the federal government, troll liberals and make them freak out is a key part of that resume.

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Honestly, it doesn't particularly matter which particular brand of conservative you had in mind; I'd like to hear anyone argue that you'll find any more good faith emenating from the rank and file than from the people they keep sending into office.


Well look, some people you can tell are just "wite suburians" who are frontrunning because white status anxiety is the new cigarettes and they want to look edgy:

Spoiler: show
Image


But some people are still shining their trophy from the time they beat out a yam in the town functional sentience competition. They believe all of it:

Spoiler: show
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:59 pm 


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First off, as others have noted Florida's vaccination rate is only as high as it is because it has such a high senior population, and moreover counting the raw number of people vaccinated instead of the percentage gives both it and Texas an unfair advantage because they're both among the most populous states in the country. More importantly, though:

Sengoku Strider wrote:
I think it's important to recognize that both Texas & Florida's governors have presidential ambitions, and have been trying to ingratiate themselves with the MAGA crowd as rightful heirs since before Trump's electoral corpse was even cold.

Be this as it may, my key caveat still applies: the people who, in your own telling, should be hurting on account of their (and their numerous imitators' and cheerleaders') actions and should be telling them to stop simply aren't doing it - and feel free to posit that they must just be doing it behind closed doors, but even if that's the case, it obviously ain't working.

Thus, unless there's some reason to believe that the scads of conservative justices Trump appointed, up to and including the SCOTUS that just showed itself perfectly willing to simply not do its job in order to own the libtards, will somehow start judging this round of temper-tantrum lawsuits on the merits, I see precious little reason to believe that "this time it's different".
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:52 am 


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BulletMagnet wrote:
Be this as it may, my key caveat still applies: the people who, in your own telling, should be hurting on account of their (and their numerous imitators' and cheerleaders') actions and should be telling them to stop simply aren't doing it - and feel free to posit that they must just be doing it behind closed doors, but even if that's the case, it obviously ain't working.


Well, we both know there's a populist groundswell there which has come completely unhinged during the pandemic. Those guys no doubt see their choices as:
1) Be Mitt Romney, say normal person stuff, get booed by the base and pushed to the party's margins.
2) Ride the wave.

I'm not under any illusion these people act on much other than self interest, and politics is a realist's game. Its rules don't leave a whole lot of room for much else. But I'd place those two guys in the low-empathy power whore category, rather the unhinged dog chasing imaginary cars Bobert/MTG category.


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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:17 am 


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I think what I'm trying to get at has kind of gotten lost here, so let me attempt to briefly recap/summarize our recent conversation that got us to this point, please correct me if I've left anything important out:

- Biden's opposition is threatening lawsuits in response to his employer vaccine mandate.

- I don't think they'll succeed in court.

- Considering how willing conservative justices have been to swoon when it's convenient I'm not so sure about that.

- But this is different, because the people keeping the conservatives in power are hurting and want the pandemic to end.

- Even if this is true, to all appearances they're either not complaining or not being listened to, so why should we be confident they'll make a difference this time?

That question in bold is the one I'm still not seeing an answer to; again, if I've overlooked something you've said that does address this point please let me know, with my apologies in advance.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 7:15 am 


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Sengoku Strider wrote:
And everyone is looking at this with the knowledge that it'll go on forever as long as concentrations of unvaccinated people can keep incubating new variants.

It's going to go on forever even if 100% of humanity gets vaccinated. People/governments/corporations may or may not eventually give up and just try to go back to normal life despite covid-19, but none of the existing drugs or treatments including the vaccines have any hope of getting rid of it.


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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:35 pm 


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Vanguard wrote:
It's going to go on forever even if 100% of humanity gets vaccinated. People/governments/corporations may or may not eventually give up and just try to go back to normal life despite covid-19, but none of the existing drugs or treatments including the vaccines have any hope of getting rid of it.


I feel like this is the defeatist attitude which has allowed the virus, and all other viruses, to propagate in the first place. We could have easily defeated CoViD-19 back in the beginning of 2020 if everyone had just worked together. Instead, humanity itself became the will of the virus.

Maybe that's some kind of poetic justice (and kind of funny, considering a large amount of our junk DNA comes from viruses), but I'm not looking forward to dying to the zeta variant of a 30-year-old disease in 2050. I recently learned that my grandfather died of the plain old flu.

People get financially ready for retirement, but then decide to make boneheaded decisions like allowing an entirely new cold virus to propagate into the population. Human beings' thinking is still way too short-sighted and primitive.


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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 6:19 pm 


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BulletMagnet wrote:
- Even if this is true, to all appearances they're either not complaining or not being listened to, so why should we be confident they'll make a difference this time?


Primarily because this is a fundamentally different scenario. The abortion question is the exact issue the SC was packed to address. Those last few judges were hand-picked after a rigorous (partisan) vetting process on their conservative/evangelical bonafides. There's no reason to think those same bonafides won't also mark them as pro business.

Business Roundtable, a lobbyist group whose members include chief executives from companies like Amazon, Walmart, Apple, Google, and Home Depot, said in a statement Thursday that it supports Biden's plan requiring companies with over 100 workers to mandate vaccines or weekly tests.

The BR lobby carries 200 CEO signatures with it. I have a feeling they'll be heard unless the opposition comes up with something really compelling. Biden's legal people seem to feel they've got an airtight case.


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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 7:03 pm 


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I suppose we can only hope that your take is the accurate one...though as I brought up in the apocalypse thread (which I've already crossed over, albeit somewhat inevitably, more than enough with this one), many of those same companies grandly announced they were "reevaluating" their campaign contributions after the January 6th riot and the subsequent "fuck the will of the people" vote of the Sedition Caucus....and we know precisely how far that sentiment went. I suppose we need to hope that there's more money to be lost than gained by falling back into line this time around. Ain't corporate personhood grand?
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:02 pm 


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BulletMagnet wrote:
I suppose we can only hope that your take is the accurate one...though as I brought up in the apocalypse thread (which I've already crossed over, albeit somewhat inevitably, more than enough with this one), many of those same companies grandly announced they were "reevaluating" their campaign contributions after the January 6th riot and the subsequent "fuck the will of the people" vote of the Sedition Caucus....and we know precisely how far that sentiment went. I suppose we need to hope that there's more money to be lost than gained by falling back into line this time around. Ain't corporate personhood grand?


Sure, but sometimes we can take a page from the right. They have a point on personal accountability. It's not just corporations or conspiracies. It's the people voting. It's Americans. Yes, grans and your mum voted for this and they are personally accountable (and quite satisfied) with the results.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/172439/par ... ctrum.aspx

In our current climate, independent is code for "I'm a Republican, but I won't say so until I get old". Look at the graph. See it? It's quite obvious. I have a feeling this trend holds strong for both boomers and gen x. They will literally vote against any change until they die. The outstanding question is: will younger people follow the status quo?
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2021 11:58 pm 


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BulletMagnet wrote:
many of those same companies grandly announced they were "reevaluating" their campaign contributions after the January 6th riot and the subsequent "fuck the will of the people" vote of the Sedition Caucus....and we know precisely how far that sentiment went.


Sure, but I think that underlines the point. The corporate ethics stuff is mostly a show for the proles, reality demands that it has to be about the bottom line. They kept "donating" to "campaigns" because they have things they need to get done - or need to not get done - in congress that affect their margins and share values.


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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 2:07 am 


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orange808 wrote:
In our current climate, independent is code for "I'm a Republican, but I won't say so until I get old".


Those are libertarians (failed and/or closeted Republicans).

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I have a feeling this trend holds strong for both boomers and gen x.


Party leaning has way more to do with region than age. I've lived in Royal Blue and Blood Red areas for decades each. I know a handful of people at best that have lightened up (openly admitted Trump is a shit stain) - unsurprisingly those few are the ones that moved to Austin from Dallas - Bible Belt central. I know literally nobody that grew up as a liberal and is now conservative, and I'm Gen X - partially to blame for the lack of success in your life apparently.

I do think, however, there is a large population of people that will vote for lower taxes no matter what, which is Republican. I doubt many of them have flipped from being liberal, but perhaps some. Then again I live in one of the most left areas in the cuntry. All my friends are well paid and will actively lobby against the Republican party.

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They will literally vote against any change until they die.


They vote at all, and in large numbers - that is the difference.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:35 am 


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ZacharyB wrote:
I feel like this is the defeatist attitude which has allowed the virus, and all other viruses, to propagate in the first place. We could have easily defeated CoViD-19 back in the beginning of 2020 if everyone had just worked together. Instead, humanity itself became the will of the virus.

Sure but everyone working together in this case essentially means literally everyone, and it would require an effort far more elaborate than merely giving every human being in the world a booster shot every few months, and if any semi-major government doesn't cooperate it all falls apart. Even a handful of the bigger corporations could ruin the entire effort. You think our capitalist overlords are going to endure several bad quarterly reports in a row just to prevent something as minor as hundreds of thousands of deaths a year for the rest of humanity's existence? Of course not. It's going to spread and it's going to mutate and nothing will change that.

I hear the coronavirus may have been found to have spread to deer? Is that true? If it can jump between humans and animals then putting an end to it really is hopeless even if you can get every corporation and the Chinese Communist Party 100% on board.

With how things stand now the best hope is for an effective cure to be discovered. Ideally one that can't or won't be patented so the pharmaceutical companies can't charge $2000 for a pill that costs 50c to produce.

orange808 wrote:
In our current climate, independent is code for "I'm a Republican, but I won't say so until I get old".


That's bullshit, I'm an independent and I think capitalism is the most evil force on earth. The democratic party is worse than useless. It's controlled by the same cabal of megacorporations and pedophile war profiteers that also controls the republicans. Why would I identify with them?


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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:39 pm 


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Perhaps "moderate" or "centrist" would have been a better word choice than "independent" (which can indicate any number of things) in this case, since what gets labeled the "middle" here in the USA would be considered a significantly rightward tilt in much of the rest of the world.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 3:27 pm 


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Vanguard wrote:
With how things stand now the best hope is for an effective cure to be discovered. Ideally one that can't or won't be patented so the pharmaceutical companies can't charge $2000 for a pill that costs 50c to produce.


You mean like a vaccine like those used to eradicate Small Pox and Polio that the government pays for?

BulletMagnet wrote:
Perhaps "moderate" or "centrist" would have been a better word choice than "independent" (which can indicate any number of things) in this case, since what gets labeled the "middle" here in the USA would be considered a significantly rightward tilt in much of the rest of the world.


No, those are whorable and inaccurate as well. I've never voted red in my life... but of course I've been branded a centrist/republican by idiots that do no research and think unless you're ultra woke you're not a liberal, and thus have no horse in the race. (I'm a libtard according to my center-of-right friends, btw). A great reason why democrats lose elections. Plenty of the world falls into a lean-left/lean-right area (and probably don't care that much about politics). Some might consider themselves centrists even though they always vote the same side. The ultra woke on the left and the Christian Taliban on the right would both call all people in this spectrum centrists, despite a long running record of picking a side.

The problem is the binary + bonus choices we get. I'm about to submit my ballot for this fucking ridiculous recall in California. I don't agree w/ Newsome on everything but there is only one way to vote on this issue. If he's out, we're fucked. I also reckon people who identify as centrists would not turn out for this election. Maybe that's being presumptuous.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:21 pm 


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Maybe some people aren't turning out because they have enough on their plate already. Having multiple elections until you get the result you want is bullshit. For instance, the UK was correct to refuse a second referendum.

Why do we have a recall process at all? It's not useful in 2021. Look at New York. People can already be removed from office.

Get rid of the recall process entirely. Democrats should have discarded it a long time ago. Why didn't they? Because, they aren't above using it. Why not? If we know it's wrong to hold elections until we finally get the "right" result, why is the recall process on the books at all? Change it!

Although, I have the feeling this is another fake outrage thing. Reminds me of the disingenuous complaining about The Electoral College after Hillz lost (because she's Thatcher 2: Electric Boogaloo). Nobody really wanted to change it, they just wanted to complain because they lost. In the process of attacking the process they undermined everyone's faith in the system and democracy. Now, a policy Democrats adore and love wholeheartedly makes people suspicious of democracy and Democrats have no intention of changing it. Thanks to the stupid sour grapes (from a legitimate loss by a shit candidate), Democrats hurt democracy. Why? That was stupid. Don't criticize policies you love.

So, let's circle back to the recall. Can we abolish recalls? Or is this another time that the loser will claim it's rigged and fuck up faith in the system some more?

Know what? None of you Clinton or Trump lovers have ever endured anything like those rigged coin flips. You also never had a year when we magically reinvented the significance of certain primaries because we didn't like the results. What the fuck do you know about outrage, you fucks?

And, I'm still here asking you to stop sabataging shit. Don't attack democratic mechanisms without making an effort to repair them.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 6:28 pm 


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orange808 wrote:
Maybe some people aren't turning out because they have enough on their plate already. Having multiple elections until you get the result you want is bullshit. For instance, the UK was correct to refuse a second referendum.

Why do we have a recall process at all? It's not useful in 2021. Look at New York. People can already be removed from office.

Get rid of the recall process entirely. Democrats should have discarded it a long time ago. Why didn't they? Because, they aren't above using it. Why not? If we know it's wrong to hold elections until we finally get the "right" result, why is the recall process on the books at all? Change it!


I agree... it makes no fucking sense. And with all these ass clowns on the ballot, someone could get like 10% of the vote and be Governor. It boggles the mind as to why the democrats in California haven't gotten rid of it. They've got the numbers and playing the odds getting a governor they don't want seems pretty unlikely. Instead, I have to see dip shits that came from Texas blaring cuntry music and a "recall Newsome!" sign on their truck, and Obama taking over my Youtube adds telling me to vote. Not to mention the countless texts from Newsome's office. :?

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So, let's circle back to the recall. Can we abolish recalls? Or is this another time that the loser will claim it's rigged and fuck up faith in the system some more?


I'm curious about it but admittedly haven't dug too deep. I've spent a ton of time in California but this past year is my first time as a voter.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:06 pm 


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orange808 wrote:
Or is this another time that the loser will claim it's rigged and fuck up faith in the system some more?

Check Sengoku Strider's latest post in the Apocalypse thread.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:35 am 


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GaijinPunch wrote:
You mean like a vaccine like those used to eradicate Small Pox and Polio that the government pays for?

If we had something like that which provided sterilizing immunity or at least something reasonably close to it, that would work, yes. Unfortunately what we have is a vaccine that is reasonably good at keeping covid cases mild if taken sufficiently far in advance, but is far less effective at preventing people from catching and spreading the disease.


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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:19 pm 


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Unfortunately what we have is a vaccine that is reasonably good at keeping covid cases mild if taken sufficiently far in advance, but is far less effective at preventing people from catching and spreading the disease.


Sorry, but the way you've portrayed the vaccine is inaccurate. The flood of unvaccinated people in hospitals and relatively limited cases among the vaccinated who are behaving responsibly tells us that the vaccine is incredibly effective... when used in conjunction with wearing masks and physical distancing. The problem is that in order to stop COVID-19 people have to be diligent about doing all three of these things, but they're not, and they're instead hoping for some kind of miracle cure to solve everything instead of using a bit of personal responsibility. However, the vaccines are definitely effective and necessary.

When people refer to COVID-19 as a plague of the unvaccinated, they're being quite accurate at this point. The continued pandemic is at this point primarily the fault of the unvaccinated, who are often the ones organizing and going to superspreading events which then help spread it to those who are vaccinated. There are of course vaccinated individuals going to large events when they shouldn't as well.

Vaccine mandates at this point are the only way we'll see any kind of lasting change. It still shocks me that large numbers of hospital workers refuse to get vaccinated.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:35 pm 


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BareKnuckleRoo wrote:
When people refer to COVID-19 as a plague of the unvaccinated, they're being quite accurate at this point.


Um, ex-CUSE me Captain Plandemic, the proper expression is "plague of the pureblooded."

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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:49 pm 


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BareKnuckleRoo wrote:
Sorry, but the way you've portrayed the vaccine is inaccurate. The flood of unvaccinated people in hospitals and relatively limited cases among the vaccinated who are behaving responsibly tells us that the vaccine is incredibly effective... when used in conjunction with wearing masks and physical distancing. The problem is that in order to stop COVID-19 people have to be diligent about doing all three of these things, but they're not, and they're instead hoping for some kind of miracle cure to solve everything instead of using a bit of personal responsibility. However, the vaccines are definitely effective and necessary.

When people refer to COVID-19 as a plague of the unvaccinated, they're being quite accurate at this point. The continued pandemic is at this point primarily the fault of the unvaccinated, who are often the ones organizing and going to superspreading events which then help spread it to those who are vaccinated. There are of course vaccinated individuals going to large events when they shouldn't as well.

Vaccine mandates at this point are the only way we'll see any kind of lasting change. It still shocks me that large numbers of hospital workers refuse to get vaccinated.

Hospitalizations are primarily happening among the unvaccinated because the vaccine is good at suppressing covid 19's symptoms. The vaccinated are still catching it and spreading it and it's still mutating in their bodies because the vaccine doesn't prevent any of that. Like I said before, the vaccine can't stop this and neither the world's leaders nor the world's citizens have the will to do what needs to be done to rid the world of covid. Even if we did force every single person in the country to take the vaccine, and however many boosters the pfizer corporation says are necessary, would everyone start wearing masks all the time? Would they stop going to public events? Of course not, and even if they did it still wouldn't be enough. It'd take a lockdowns far more severe than the ones in 2020 and of course that wouldn't really work either because somewhere else in the world, some other nation would refuse to participate. It's here forever barring the discovery of some revolutionary new treatment, and probably not even then.


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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:38 pm 


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You're saying the truth, but in a really misleading way.

Yes, vaccinated people can still get the infection, and yes theoretically can still spread it.

But the reason their symptoms are so much milder is their viral load is lower, and the reason they recover faster is the antibodies help kill off the virus in their system sooner.

Fewer viruses that survive for fewer generalizational cycles means a much lower chance of a beneficial (for the virus) mutation. Fewer viruses being exhaled, lower chance of infecting others.

Don't make "perfect" the enemy of "better."
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:02 pm 


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Vanguard: you are spreading misinformation. It appears your information comes from Joe Rogan or somewhere similarly grotesquely ill informed. Your claims are very reminiscent of the ones that were spread when his followers latched onto a study and drew erroneous conclusions the study author called them out on. Your combination of misinformation and your defeatist attitude are exactly the sort of things that are contributing to the continued spread of COVID-19. The attitude of "we can't do anything, so why bother" despite the fact that we can in fact do something about it, it just appears that people like you lack the willpower and discipline to do what is necessary.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:44 am 


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Vanguard wrote:
GaijinPunch wrote:
You mean like a vaccine like those used to eradicate Small Pox and Polio that the government pays for?

If we had something like that which provided sterilizing immunity or at least something reasonably close to it, that would work, yes. Unfortunately what we have is a vaccine that is reasonably good at keeping covid cases mild if taken sufficiently far in advance, but is far less effective at preventing people from catching and spreading the disease.


Logic like that is why we're still in this fist fuck. Who fucking cares if you get Covid w/o symptoms. The objective is to prevent long haul symptoms, hospitalization, and death. The vaccines are highly effective against all of the above. If this was a cold and hospitalized less than the flu, nobody would care and we'd be going on about our lives. Well, guess what happens if everyone eligible gets vaccinated (which they've had AMPLE fucking time to do)? But instead people have to point out the technicality that you still get Covid, but leave out the important part: the chances of it killing you are miniscule.
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:46 am 


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GaijinPunch wrote:
Logic like that is why we're still in this fist fuck. Who fucking cares if you get Covid w/o symptoms. The objective is to prevent long haul symptoms, hospitalization, and death. The vaccines are highly effective against all of the above. If this was a cold and hospitalized less than the flu, nobody would care and we'd be going on about our lives. Well, guess what happens if everyone eligible gets vaccinated (which they've had AMPLE fucking time to do)? But instead people have to point out the technicality that you still get Covid, but leave out the important part: the chances of it killing you are miniscule.

The point is that the current set of covid vaccines cannot wipe out the disease the way the smallpox and polio vaccines were able to. There's a >99% chance that it's going to survive and it's going to mutate into something the vaccines don't work against and no mandate will stop that. If there's a new generation of vaccines that really do offer sterilizing immunity, then things will be different.

To be clear, I don't think it's a bad idea to get the vaccine. I think it's a very good idea to do so if you're in one of the high risk groups (age 60+, obese, etc). But it isn't reasonable to say that the unvaccinated are the reason the virus still exists, is still a problem, or still has a chance to mutate.


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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:58 pm 


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Vanguard wrote:
it isn't reasonable to say that the unvaccinated are the reason the virus still exists, is still a problem, or still has a chance to mutate.


There's a misconception that viruses mutate. They don't. Viruses don't do shit. Pure parasites, they don't even have a metabolism. It's a matter of contention in the scientific community whether viruses can even be considered "alive" at all. From a layman's perspective, viruses operate like a spring-loaded trap.

Infested cells mutate the virus.

Beneficial mutations are an extremely rare event. When you significantly reduce the number of cells the virus can successfully infest before being killed off by vaccine-driven antibodies, the odds of a newer and stronger variant coming about go way down.

Vanguard wrote:
I don't think it's a bad idea to get the vaccine. I think it's a very good idea to do so if you're in one of the high risk groups (age 60+, obese, etc).


Dude, lay off the Joe Rogan. He's a moron and the guy he cites is from an astroturfed right-wing group intentionally created to help re-elect Trump by giving his senile bloviations about drinking bleach and sunshine the appearance of having medical support. Remember the demon semen doctor? Same group.

And for all of Rogan's posturing about how if you lift, bro, you can just flex the covid out of your bloodstreamm, when he himself got covid he ran to the doctor and got the robot antibodies.

If the prospect of artificially-created messenger RNA being run through your ribosomes a single time to create a spike protein before being naturally dissolved by cell enzymes yicks you out, you're going to bazooka-barf when you learn about the cell-hybridization process used to create monoclonal antibodies.

I mean if "natural is good," antibodies created by your body from the spike protein coded by the vaccine are a hell of a lot more "natural" than robot antibodies.

It's also worth mentioning that monoclonal antibodies are super expensive and in limited supply. So instead of naturally growing his own antibodies from the free vaccine like everyone else, Mr. Moneybags Rogan unnecessarily slurped up a dose of robot antibodies that could have gone to save the life of an immunocompromised individual who can't use the vaccine.

And if mRNA vaccines in general yick you out, get the Johnson and Johnson.

Soon... soon the fools will realize the mRNA vaccines don't just code for the Covid spike protein... they also code for the COOTIES protein! Mwahahahahaa!!!
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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:19 pm 


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Vanguard wrote:
But it isn't reasonable to say that the unvaccinated are the reason the virus still exists, is still a problem, or still has a chance to mutate.


It's completely reasonable to say the unvaccinated population in countries where the jab is available are the problem. This with a vaccine designed to combat a strain that effectively doesn't even exist anymore too. Covid will no doubt become an endemic virus, if it isnt already, but it's existence doesn't have to be the problem for society that it is at present.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... -19-deaths


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 Post subject: Re: COVID-19 in your part of the world
PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:46 pm 


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Vanguard wrote:
The point is that the current set of covid vaccines cannot wipe out the disease the way the smallpox and polio vaccines were able to. There's a >99% chance that it's going to survive and it's going to mutate into something the vaccines don't work against and no mandate will stop that. If there's a new generation of vaccines that really do offer sterilizing immunity, then things will be different.


It mutating and us taking a seasonal booster is a lifestyle that is acceptable. We already fucking do that. Why is this so hard to grasp? Again, you (and many) are clinging to a technicality more or less.

Quote:
But it isn't reasonable to say that the unvaccinated are the reason the virus still exists, is still a problem, or still has a chance to mutate.


It is very reasonable to say they are the reason we still have closures, mask mandates, and most importantly a flooded health care system that takes resources away from people who had no choice in their ailments.

Quote:
Covid will no doubt become an endemic virus, if it isnt already, but it's existence doesn't have to be the problem for society that it is at present.


This. It's here. It's not going anywhere, same as all the other shit we have. If people started treating it as such to mitigate it instead of saying, "it doesn't kill the virus, so it's useless" we could be going to key parties and orgies again.
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