COVID-19 in your part of the world

[system11]

You do understand that vaccinated people are catching and passing it around to the point where more of them in raw numbers are doing it than unvaccinated?

???

I'm not sure who told you this (given the lack of a source) but whoever it is has given you wildly incorrect information. This also contradicts basic epidemiology tenets, so it's safe to say at face value it's a misunderstanding, if not outright bullshit.

My government did.

"In the context of very high vaccine coverage in the population, even with a highly effective vaccine, it is expected that a large proportion of cases, hospitalisations and deaths would occur in vaccinated individuals, simply because a larger proportion of the population are vaccinated than unvaccinated and no vaccine is 100% effective. This is especially true because vaccination has been prioritised in individuals who are more susceptible or more at risk of severe disease."

It's basic logic when group B vastly outnumbers group A.

Also:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... y-suggests

It's completely normal that you'd expect many of these to be updated as we get new information and data, given that COVID-19 is a completely new disease we do not have much information about. This is how science works; we revise our methodologies when new evidence is available.

Yes, completely agree, but as I say - until those examples were proven to be true, people stating them were being hounded and accused of spreading misinformation, because it was politically convenient to do so.

That the vaccines could cause death or serious side effects.

This one is 100% misleading misinformation. It's pure fearmongering.

I literally suffered a serious side effect. I am now at increased risk of skin cancer, for the rest of my life. My legs are disfigured. Feel free to disagree with my doctor if it makes you feel better. You can add my dentist too, who remarked that she had another patient who experienced the same thing. Go and look at the yellow card system and adverse reaction reporting statistics. Discount the 'had a headache and my arm hurt boohoo' ones, and look at all the rest. A lot of them are not 'trivial' side effects even though they may not be dead. It's true that many of these are unproven observations, balance against the likelyhood of unreported ones.

For an example of how rare the side effects are, the government of Canada is reporting only 0.011% of doses resulted in an "adverse event following immunization" that was a serious health risk. That's damn good odds.

Agreed, pretty rare, but I'm tired of seeing people downplay and outright attack people who have had an adverse outcome. I'm also not particulary impressed with the UK government pushing it out to very young children against medical advice, but we're doing it anyway. Government was advised:

"Overall, the committee is of the opinion that the benefits from vaccination are marginally greater than the potential known harms (tables 1 to 4) but acknowledges that there is considerable uncertainty regarding the magnitude of the potential harms. The margin of benefit, based primarily on a health perspective, is considered too small to support advice on a universal programme of vaccination of otherwise healthy 12 to 15-year-old children at this time. As longer-term data on potential adverse reactions accrue, greater certainty may allow for a reconsideration of the benefits and harms. Such data may not be available for several months."

And yet....

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-chi ... s-12495493

I am generally in favour of the vaccinations, but the demonisation of people who may simply be scared, brushing under the carpet the growing number of problems this has caused, the relentless push for digital ID (Covid is simply the opportunity that appeared first) and ignoring our own medical advice for optics - that all has to fucking stop.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Thank you for confirming you are drawing an incorrect conclusion from a misreading.

The paragraph you've quoted here doesn't have anything to do with your initial misleading claim and in no way confirms your initial claim that the vaccinated are "passing the virus around" more than the unvaccinated. It simply says that there will still be a large (in relative terms) number of affected people in the vaccinated group simply because there are fortunately a large number of vaccinated individuals (who are still being exposed, often by unvaccinated people).

It's true that vaccinated individuals can spread COVID if infected, but it is untrue that vaccinated individuals are the ones responsible for driving the spread, and the deaths. It's simply not; they're generally not the ones driving the initial exposures that then spread COVID throughout the community.

it is expected that a large proportion of cases

This is especially true because vaccination has been prioritised in individuals who are more susceptible or more at risk of severe disease.

The article you quote afterwards also has absolutely nothing to do with your claim that vaccinated individuals are somehow more responsible for the spread of the disease than the unvaccinated. From the article:

Prof Rowland Kao, an epidemiologist at the University of Edinburgh, who was not involved in the work, said the estimates of high rates of transmission among household contacts underscored the need to vaccinate teenagers and give boosters to vulnerable people.

“The result that vaccinated individuals who become infected appear to pose a similar infection risk to others also emphasises the need for continued or improved non-pharmaceutical interventions to further slow down transmission rates and ease hospital burdens over the winter,” he said.

The article's focus is on with how if one is infected, how transmissible with other household members, where it's difficult to physically distance oneself and therefore viral load exposures will be much higher than short, one-off exposures with someone infected. It also discusses with the need of boosters due to how vaccine protection starts to wane after being vaccinated. And, as we know, that it's going to take multiple approaches at once to stop COVID. You can't just get vaccinated then go partying with thousands of people and expect to never get sick.

I literally suffered a serious side effect. I am now at increased risk of skin cancer, for the rest of my life. My legs are disfigured.

The only reference I could find to what you're referring to is a previous remark where you mention vitiligo on your legs as a side effect from getting the vaccine. Vitiligo is not a serious side effect under the categorization of side effects (it isn't immediately life threatening, it won't significantly alter your quality of life, etc).

As per this medical review article that discusses "a rare but manageable cutaneous reaction to COVID vaccination": https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ccr3.4865

Vitiligo, while not life-threatening, can pose significant challenges for a patient's psychosocial well-being, especially in skin of color patients whose disease is more readily noticeable. We present this case to add the mounting literature regarding possible COVID-19 dermatologic adverse reactions, in order to assist clinicians in counseling their patients regarding the spectrum of possible cutaneous reactions. For perspective, tens of millions of individuals have now been vaccinated and only two reports of vaccine-induced vitiligo exist to date. The above case notwithstanding, the risk of permanent and serious reactions to vaccination—dermatologic and otherwise—is far outweighed by the benefits conferred by vaccination, both to the vaccinated individual and society at large. We encourage all eligible candidates to continue to receive these remarkably effective and safe vaccines in order to bring a swift and long-overdue end to this catastrophic pandemic.

So, yeah. Sorry 'bout your vitiligo, but you've still done the right thing. I'd post the little Batsugun thumbs up icon if I had it handy.

I'm also not particulary impressed with the UK government pushing it out to very young children against medical advice

I had to dig up the source you quoted and it appears to be this, which was published at the beginning of September. I note that you then quote a new article published today as if it were problematic for suggesting children be offered a course of the vaccine. I will quote the original government site you provided and bold for emphasis:

As longer-term data on potential adverse reactions accrue, greater certainty may allow for a reconsideration of the benefits and harms. Such data may not be available for several months.

It seems quite reasonable to me to consider mid-December to be several months away from the beginning of September, so not sure what the problem here is.

[Mischief Maker]

I'm reminded of the Cambridge-educated man who livestreamed his covid infection symptoms (ending in his death) after watching too much Bret Weinstein:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tSbOIiGBD4

[system11]

As per this medical review article that discusses "a rare but manageable cutaneous reaction to COVID vaccination": https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ccr3.4865

Vitiligo, while not life-threatening, can pose significant challenges for a patient's psychosocial well-being, especially in skin of color patients whose disease is more readily noticeable. We present this case to add the mounting literature regarding possible COVID-19 dermatologic adverse reactions, in order to assist clinicians in counseling their patients regarding the spectrum of possible cutaneous reactions. For perspective, tens of millions of individuals have now been vaccinated and only two reports of vaccine-induced vitiligo exist to date. The above case notwithstanding, the risk of permanent and serious reactions to vaccination—dermatologic and otherwise—is far outweighed by the benefits conferred by vaccination, both to the vaccinated individual and society at large. We encourage all eligible candidates to continue to receive these remarkably effective and safe vaccines in order to bring a swift and long-overdue end to this catastrophic pandemic.

So, yeah. Sorry 'bout your vitiligo, but you've still done the right thing. I'd post the little Batsugun thumbs up icon if I had it handy.

As I say, I took one shot, noticed the problem, did as much research as I could because nobody knew if it was related or not, doctors were hopeless, vaccine people said it couldn't happen (by this point it was already documented), I even went as far as contacting the UK vitiligo support charity. Based on all their feedback I rolled the dice a second time and made it worse. There will be no third time.

I had to dig up the source you quoted and it appears to be this, which was published at the beginning of September. I note that you then quote a new article published today as if it were problematic for suggesting children be offered a course of the vaccine. I will quote the original government site you provided and bold for emphasis:

As longer-term data on potential adverse reactions accrue, greater certainty may allow for a reconsideration of the benefits and harms. Such data may not be available for several months.

Such data is still not available as stated in their latest release on Nov 21st, several months have not passed, but the govt is doing it anyway. They're putting their foot to the floor as a distraction from a scandal surrounding them breaking the law last year having parties during lockdown.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Based on all their feedback I rolled the dice a second time and made it worse. There will be no third time.

I mean, I think that's pretty fair. If you're concerned you have had an observable adverse cutaneous reaction to it, that seems quite reasonably the sort of thing to talk to your doctor about a medical exemption for future booster shots.

[DEL]

I also looked it up. Quote: VITILIGO: A disease that causes the loss of skin colour in blotches.
Vitiligo occurs when pigment-producing cells 'die' or stop functioning.
Loss of skin colour can affect any part of the body, including the mouth, hair and eyes. It may be more noticeable in people with darker skin.
Treatment may improve the appearance of the skin but doesn't cure the disease.
Treatment can help, but this condition can't be cured.

Daym! Sorry to hear about that system11

[Vanguard]

I'm sorry to hear to hear you had to go through that, system11.

This one is 100% misleading misinformation. It's pure fearmongering. We know that the incidence of serious side effects is not zero, but that's no different than any other vaccine.

This right here is misleading information. The rate of serious side effects from the covid vaccines are vastly higher than those from the vaccines everyone gets in their youth. They tend to be closer to one in a million than the one in ten thousand we're seeing with covid shots. And despite that, the ruling class wants to make us take several of them per year, even those who have already caught the disease and will see zero benefit from it. There are even authority figures pushing to give them to children who are at very close to zero risk from being harmed by covid but are still vulnerable to the vaccines' side effects.

For an example of how rare the side effects are, the government of Canada is reporting only 0.011% of doses resulted in an "adverse event following immunization" that was a serious health risk. That's damn good odds.

That is also about the chance of being seriously harmed by covid for healthy young people. Higher when you consider that we are expected to take them multiple times, much higher if the pharmaceutical corporations get their wish and people end up needing to take 3 or 4 shots a year. I, for one, did not know they could cause vitiligo. Never saw that published anywhere. Maybe it's super rare, maybe it's just not being reported. Myocarditis is a widely published side effect, but we still don't really know how serious the problem is. A bad case of myocarditis shaves years off of your life. How many vaccine recipients will die younger because of that? We don't know but several hundred thousand is well within the realm of possibility.

Even if the shots were not becoming increasingly ineffective against newer variants (which they are) and even if their ability to reduce covid's spread wasn't middling at the best of times (which it always was) and even if they did not carry the risk of serious side effects (which they do), the dangers of giving governments and corporations massively increased control over people's lives, work, speech, and personal medical choices would still be far worse than the danger presented by those who refuse to take the vaccine. Liberals are unfortunately too concerned with owning the chuds to see that obvious truth.

The most pragmatic and the most ethical approach is to leave vaccination voluntary, and to primarily focus vaccine efforts on the elderly and those with underlying health conditions, who make up the great majority of covid deaths (the median age of those who die to covid is like 80). By now it may be a moot point, since there's a new variant which early reports suggests can spread very quickly, isn't very dangerous, and resists the vaccines. It's quite possible the problem has already largely sorted itself out, though even if it has I don't expect the politicians and corporations will give up on their power grab.


I want to state clearly that I am not antivax. I do believe it is best for people over 60, people who are obese, etc. etc. to get the shot. As with all medicine, the covid vaccines should be applied where they will provide the greatest benefit and do the least harm. Giving it to 12 year olds and those who have natural immunity does overwhelmingly more harm than good.

[Ddshot]

Just more American partisan vaccine rhetoric!
Bla bla bla

[Ddshot]

Ow and by the way over 450k uk service men died in ww2 and more than a million when combined ww1+ww2!mostly young and fit men and women!covid has killed 160k in the uk mostly old and vunrable people with one or more health issues!It’s not comparable

[Mischief Maker]

Ow and by the way over 450k uk service men died in ww2 and more than a million when combined ww1+ww2!mostly young and fit men and women!covid has killed 160k in the mostly old and vunrable people with one or more health issues!

You might even say they deserved to die!

Except when Joe "Covid can't hurt you if you lift, bro!" Rogan got covid, he lunged for the monoclonal antibodies; an expensive treatment in limited supply meant for AIDS patients, leukemia kids, and other people too weak to grow their own antibodies from vaccines. "Fuck you and your paper cranes, cancer girl! I'm the host of fear factor and I'm buying my way to the front of the line ahead of you! I mean I could have just gotten the vaccine for free and not had to yoink your treatment, but then I might get made fun of on social media and my Hollywood ego is more important than your life!"

Hasn't the UK learned its lesson already?

[BareKnuckleRoo]

The most pragmatic and the most ethical approach is to leave vaccination voluntary

Your "pragmatic", "ethical" solution is to literally do nothing. The USA, who loves to reject in the name of freedom both the vaccine and any suggestions that masks and physical distancing should be practiced, is currently following your advice. Proudly trundling its way towards a million recorded deaths in total.

Specifically, the electorate group rejecting sensible public health measures and professional guidance from qualified medical professionals is almost overwhelmingly the one that continues to wave the flag of their twice-impeached, known pathological liar former president who gleefully ignored the pandemic from the get-go, and inspired an armed coup in an attempt to overthrow the election. Might I suggest not following their example?

[GaijinPunch]

I am hoping to run the gauntlet soon and go to Japan to see my son, as it's been so long. If all goes well I can quarantine at home for 10 days (assuming I test negative on a PCR on day 10). Their new measures b/c of Omicron though mean if anyone on a flight tests positive for Omicron, the whole flight gets 14 days of quarantine in a hotel. Luckily govt sponsored, but still. That could really fuck a trip up.

[vol.2]

that would suck. could you just take like an extra week jic that happens?

[Vanguard]

Your "pragmatic", "ethical" solution is to literally do nothing.

Making the shots available at no cost to the individual isn't nothing. I would also like the government and the media to start providing good information to the public instead of just saying whatever the corporations want them to say, but I know that is terribly unrealistic. There would surely be far less mistrust of the vaccines if establishment authority figures hadn't been blatantly, constantly lying, and if they hadn't made it so obvious throughout the pandemic that the public health is the least of their concerns.

I would like them to start treating natural immunity as just as safe as if not not safer than being fully vaccinated. I would like them to never again offer a pharmaceutical corporation exemption from liability from harm caused by their products. Frankly, I'm surprised the vaccines turned out as safe as they did, the pharmaceutical corporations are well known for their blatant disregard for human life even when they can be sued for their mistakes. I would like them to focus more on producing a better, second generation of vaccines, or other treatments rather than trying to squeeze every last ounce of profit out of the ones they have now. Personally, I suspect an inhaled version of the vaccine would provide far more reliable sterilizing immunity than the current ones do.

The USA, who loves to reject in the name of freedom both the vaccine and any suggestions that masks and physical distancing should be practiced, is currently following your advice. Proudly trundling its way towards a million recorded deaths in total.

And more than 90% of them were over the age of 50. Most of the deaths in the remaining <10% had underlying conditions. That's where the focus should be, not healthy teenagers, not people who already have strong immunity to covid. The USA has a weight problem and a fucked up health care system, it was always going to get hit hard by the coronavirus. By far the greatest benefit of the vaccine, essentially the only benefit it offers, is that it protects the individual who takes it, so what makes sense is to worry about vaccinating those who are at significant risk from covid 19, not forcing an indefinite number of boosters on people who were almost certainly going to get nothing worse than the sniffles for a few days.

You know giving individuals the choice to take the vaccine is not the same as rejecting the vaccine, yeah? Freedom's important.

Specifically, the electorate group rejecting sensible public health measures and professional guidance from qualified medical professionals is almost overwhelmingly the one that continues to wave the flag of their twice-impeached, known pathological liar former president who gleefully ignored the pandemic from the get-go, and inspired an armed coup in an attempt to overthrow the election. Might I suggest not following their example?

It's honestly a joke to call a relatively minor riot like that an armed coup. They stole some shoes and a laptop. The only people who died in the riot were the rioters themselves. Real life isn't a 4X game, you don't get control over a civilization because you managed to get a few guys inside their capitol building. There was a zero percent chance that they would have been able to overthrow the United States government, not that they made any effort to do so. A group that was ten times as large and ten times as lethal (ten times zero is still zero, after all) would still have had a zero percent chance. "You're doing the same thing Trump supporters do" isn't a real argument. He was a garbage president, but all of them have been for the last 40 years or so. I'm not going to stop supporting socialized health care just because it is common for supporters of Obama, another garbage president, to also support that.

[Mischief Maker]

Personally, I suspect an inhaled version of the vaccine would provide far more reliable sterilizing immunity than the current ones do.

...what?

Vaccines are not a sterilizer.

They provide the immune system with a sample of the covid spike protein so the body can grow antibodies that attach to its shape.

The resulting antibodies quickly block actual covid viruses from facehugging your cells.

They're not bleach.

[Vanguard]

...what?

People who catch covid and recover from it are very unlikely to catch the same variant again barring rare immune system disorders. People who have taken the current set of vaccines are still fairly likely to catch covid when exposed to it. A probable explanation for this flaw is that the vaccines are not very effective at stimulating the immune system in the respiratory tract, which the virus uses both to enter the host and spread to others. An intranasal vaccine would likely perform better in this regard. Several such vaccines are already in development, though I have no idea how far off we are from one suited for public use.

[TransatlanticFoe]

ld like them to start treating natural immunity as just as safe as if not not safer than being fully vaccinated. I would like them to never again offer a pharmaceutical corporation exemption from liability from harm caused by their products. Frankly, I'm surprised the vaccines turned out as safe as they did, the pharmaceutical corporations are well known for their blatant disregard for human life even when they can be sued for their mistakes. I would like them to focus more on producing a better, second generation of vaccines, or other treatments rather than trying to squeeze every last ounce of profit out of the ones they have now. Personally, I suspect an inhaled version of the vaccine would provide far more reliable sterilizing immunity than the current ones do.

They don't treat natural immunity the same as vaccinated immunity because it simply isn't the same.

The vaccine generates a huge and diverse selection of antibodies and T cells which recognise the virus' spike protein, in a manner which is consistent across all vaccinated people (with the exception of those with a seriously compromised immune system). While it needs a 3rd dose to work as well vs. omicron (the diversity part of the immune response) it is holding up against all evolutions of the virus so far - and is anticipated to do so in the future.

While natural immunity does respond to more than just the spike protein, exactly what and how much it does depends too much on individuals to be reliable for the whole population. While covid reinfections have generally been rare (same as infections post-vaccination in an non-immune compromised person), the omicron variant is changing that - evading more of the vaccine's response but crucially evading natural infection too (caveat: antibodies only, the bit which blocks infection - T cells, which mitigate severity, cannot be as easily evaded if at all). In the UK, the burden of omicron is predominantly in London - which has had high infection levels through the pandemic but 1/3rd of the population is unvaccinated, which is some 3 million people in a densely populated area. It's tearing through them as well as hitting some of those without a vaccine booster dose. Natural immunity is not enough and often too risky to obtain given covid's outcomes not always being explainable as the patient was elderly/infirm.

There are other treatments too, pfizer have an antiviral pill which is going into mainstream production (Merck too, but theirs currently has some issues which needs more data to resolve). There are synthetic antibodies which are for those who cannot mount an effect immune response themselves. There will also be, probably in 18 months, vaccines which cover off several different variants at once. Work is constant in having vaccines tuned to a specific known variant (and likely unknown variants - it's easy to make custom mutations in a lab) ready for mass deployment if needed. There is also work on delivery mechanisms, so an inhaled vaccine may be a reality before long.

On safety, as this is usually the biggest concern that's not proper tin foil hat stuff, it's important to point out that nothing in the drug development process has been skipped or artificially sped up. Time to market for drugs is usually limited by:
a) enough patients for clinical trials
b) financing of the whole thing (from R&D to mass market)
Covid's impact has ensured there is no shortage of either, which is why we have this vaccine so rapidly. In addition it's worth pointing out that the work on covid vaccines builds upon work done for previous SARS and MERS outbreaks, but which were over before either clinical trials could be performed with enough patients or there was need for mass production

It is fine to have an inherent distrust of big pharma, particularly with their reputation within private healthcare and exploitation of developing countries. Indeed the news that a specialised T cell has been found which aborts any coronavirus infection came as great news to me - if a vaccine could be developed to robustly generate these, then we end the pandemic and other coronaviruses too. Of course where's the driver for big pharma? One vaccine and we're done or one you can sell every year? You have to trust that eventually someone will do the right thing.

[GaijinPunch]

that would suck. could you just take like an extra week jic that happens?

My work is luckily implementing a new unlimited PTO schedule for next year. If I got stuck in a hotel I'd just do my best to work my normal US hours. What the fuck else am I gonna do?

[EmperorIng]

You have to trust that eventually someone will do the right thing.

Naive.

The moment the current round of politicians don't have a pandemic to fear-monger with, they know they're gone. The moment drug companies don't have a 4-times-yearly shot to spook you into getting, they lose out on billions of dollars. The moment websites and newspapers don't have doom stories about the latest covid mutation to scare people to stay glued to their phones, they crumble. Who do you think calls the "shots" here?

They will continue to try and scare the population for as long as they can, to keep them dependent on their words of 'wisdom' and paternalism indefinitely. That's the near-term future for all of us, while we are repeatedly told to 'trust the science' from the biggest group of shifty mealy-mouths on the planet.

[GaijinPunch]

You have to trust that eventually someone will do the right thing.

Naive.

The moment the current round of politicians don't have a pandemic to fear-monger with, they know they're gone.

Okay, so Off Topic to this thread, but on that note I think you'll get a kick out of this.

[EmperorIng]

Bad taste to say that America keeps dropping bombs on japan?

[Mischief Maker]

The moment the current round of politicians don't have a pandemic to fear-monger with, they know they're gone.

What are you talking about? Covid sunk Trump's reelection. Covid is the reason Biden's approval numbers are in the toilet. Whoever "the current round of politicians" is, the sooner they can end the pandemic, the better off they'll be.

For fuck's sake, the Biden administration's so desperate to get this plague over with, they've been willing to give the country a sample of how feasible and convenient free-at-the-point-of-service Medicare for All would be.

The moment drug companies don't have a 4-times-yearly shot to spook you into getting, they lose out on billions of dollars.

You realize the vaccines are already paid-for, right? Refusing to get the shot doesn't take any money out of the pockets of big pharma.

If anything, refusing the vaccine increases the chances of a new strain, which would consequently lead to more money in the pockets of big pharma. Doh!

The moment websites and newspapers don't have doom stories about the latest covid mutation to scare people to stay glued to their phones, they crumble.

News Media has always been a loss-leader business.

For example, if it hadn't been for financial support by AT&T, OANN would currently be out of business, scare-mongering or not.

They will continue to try and scare the population for as long as they can, to keep them dependent on their words of 'wisdom' and paternalism indefinitely. That's the near-term future for all of us, while we are repeatedly told to 'trust the science' from the biggest group of shifty mealy-mouths on the planet.

The fact that Covid-19 has been a mass-death event of epic proportions is scary enough by itself, which is why Donald Trump, Tucker Carlson, and Joe Biden all got the vaccine.

When you've got companies like Amazon refusing to let their employees stop working for a couple of hours to get out of the path of a goddamn Tornado, why on Earth would you think they'd willingly cut into their own profits for a "fake" pandemic?

And I don't get this whole "they want to make us dependent on government and science" meme. Are you saying if they didn't provide the vaccine, rugged individualists would go into their basements and homebrew their own vaccines? Is the government trying to make us "dependent" on other utilities provided to keep the economy running, like roads?

And as for "trust the science," I can't emphasize enough, despite all their crowing about Hydroxychloroquine, Ivermectin, and whatever other magic-bullet snake oil is being pushed by these online pill-mills ever since Trump lifted regulations on telemedicine, Joe Rogan, Dennis Prager, and all the other rich anti-vax influencers all lunged for monoclonal antibody treatment when they got Covid infections; an injection of artificial antibodies created by a cell-hybridization process that's as unnatural and science-y as you can get.

[BulletMagnet]

Joe Rogan, Dennis Prager, and all the other rich anti-vax influencers all lunged for monoclonal antibody treatment when they got Covid infections

A treatment which, it's worth repeating, costs around 100 times as much as a vaccine shot, so if anyone's playing directly into Big Pharma's worst carnivore capitalist tendencies it's the folks who refuse the vaccine and then eagerly gulp down anything and everything else (as one nurse is said to have noted to a Covid patient who stated they refused to get vaccinated because they don't know what's in it, "Two minutes ago I handed you a dozen different pills and you didn't ask a single question about any of them before swallowing the whole lot.")

Off to the side, if you're really concerned about the proliferation of "profits over people" in our lives, the first thing you ought to be doing is working to stop those who openly tout the "greed is good" "corporations are people" "all regulation is tyranny" "money is free speech" bumper sticker line from getting elected.

[GaijinPunch]

Bad taste to say that America keeps dropping bombs on japan?

Not at all. Rahm was so universally hated as Mayer I was sure he'd disappear into obscurity.l What democrat can't run for reelection in Chicago?

[geosnow]

Joe Rogan, Dennis Prager, and all the other rich anti-vax influencers all lunged for monoclonal antibody treatment when they got Covid infections

A treatment which, it's worth repeating, costs around 100 times as much as a vaccine shot, so if anyone's playing directly into Big Pharma's worst carnivore capitalist tendencies it's the folks who refuse the vaccine and then eagerly gulp down anything and everything else (as one nurse is said to have noted to a Covid patient who stated they refused to get vaccinated because they don't know what's in it, "Two minutes ago I handed you a dozen different pills and you didn't ask a single question about any of them before swallowing the whole lot.")

Off to the side, if you're really concerned about the proliferation of "profits over people" in our lives, the first thing you ought to be doing is working to stop those who openly tout the "greed is good" "corporations are people" "all regulation is tyranny" "money is free speech" bumper sticker line from getting elected.

[Sengoku Strider]

Covid sunk Trump's reelection.

It might well sink his re-reelection too...assuming he can delay his racketeering charges for that long.

Spoiler

That might be the most uplifting read I've had in months.

[emphatic]

Sounds omnious:

[Mischief Maker]

Sounds omnious:

You're intentionally being obtuse so you can make the silliest interpretation of that as possible.

[xxx1993]

Even though we got two Phizer doses and the booster last month, my brother is constantly coughing and I believe he's suffering mild symptoms... Now I'm really worried.

[vol.2]

Sounds omnious:

You're intentionally being obtuse so you can make the silliest interpretation of that as possible.

how silly could it possibly get? is it silly to say that hospitals in red states are overwhelmed with covid cases, imperiling many others who need operations and treatments to survive?