Castlevania Chronicles - anyone ever play?

[awbacon]

https://youtu.be/lcitLvwCQvY

Compared to beating Dracula X up on the video I did, I figured I'd talk about a Castlevania game I enjoy lol

Wish I could drop the $$ for an X68000 and and an original copy, but for now this will do. Anyone else ever play? It's such a weird feeling game for a Castlevania entry but all the same I am really into it

[Bloodreign]

I own US and PAL copies of the game, the latter given to me by an old friend in the UK. I didn't think we'd see another CV game with the old stage by stage with boss at end of each formula, especially after SotN was a thing. I remember EGM didn't diss the game, but said that it was a hard game, well the original mode is tough, but the arranged mode, with more feminine looking Simon isn't as tough. I had never heard of the game prior to it coming out, but soon learned of where it originated from by the time I got into emulation. Shame the Tower of Dolls no longer have the dolls speak to you in either US or PAL versions. The ninja zombie maids in the last stage are pretty neat too.

[Sumez]

You may want to check out this thread or even that thread.
Hell, there's even this thread.

I don't mind bringing these games back up again, and discussing the hell out of them, but you might at least find it worth knowing that all of the games you keep mentioning have been brought up many times before on this forum.

[__SKYe]

Yup, that is a great game; probably my favourite of the classic Castlevania games. I've never delved too deep into the PS1 port, but from what I've seen and others have posted the differences are minimal.

[opt2not]

I don't mind bringing these games back up again, and discussing the hell out of them, but you might at least find it worth knowing that all of the games you keep mentioning have been brought up many times before on this forum.

Yeah, but bringing it up again helps advertise his youtube channel? So...

[Mero]

Yeah, I played the Pal PS1 version years ago in glorious 50hz-o-vision. I think I fired it up again sometime during the 2010's and couldn't get past the clock tower, either I'd die in the tower or I'd die on the boss.

I've got a couple of tunes from the OST on my phone.

[SuperDeadite]

Ps1 port is a mess. Real deal or just emulate.

[Austin]

Dude, you're asking the forum if they've played a Castlevania game? Come on. You already know the answer to that question.

[bottino]

Yup, that is a great game; probably my favourite of the classic Castlevania games.

Mine too. It's just a superb game on every front.

When you get to the 2nd stage and Trashard in the Cave starts playing you know you're in for something very special.

[Bassa-Bassa]

Ps1 port is a mess. Real deal or just emulate.

Is real deal really optimized (officially) for 68030? How so?

Anyway, it lacks a 15khz option, doesn't it? Visuals like these need it to shine.

[opt2not]

I thought the PS1 port had a lot of good features added. Is the Arrange Mode not as liked as I thought?

[SuperDeadite]

Ps1 port is a mess. Real deal or just emulate.

Is real deal really optimized (officially) for 68030? How so?

Anyway, it lacks a 15khz option, doesn't it? Visuals like these need it to shine.

The real deal runs in 512x512 31khz resolution. It was never meant to have thick scanlines. It looks stunning as it is. The resolution helps quite a bit too as the hitboxes are pixel perfect. You can rub your nose on traps and not take damage. The ps1 version's hitboxes are indeed not the same as it's a recreation from sprite rips. It is not a port of the original code.

The biggest issue is the speed. X68Ks run at 55htz. NTSC PS1 version was sped up to 60. At 55 all the crazy traps work as intended, at 60 they are sped up and the timing is completely off making them a lot harder then they are supposed to be. Faster enemies like the she-wolf boss are basically broken on PS1. Comes down to pure luck as opposed to the original's true test of skill.

A lot of people on this forum say Simon's walking speed feels sluggish. And on PS1 it is, as Simon has the same walking speed as the original, but the rest of the game was sped up. The world moves faster then he does. His speed feels totally natural in the original.

Like many I had never heard of the X68K when the Chronicles came out in the USA at $9.99. I bought it and got my ass kicked over and over. Never was able to finish it after years of trying. After I got my real X68000 I beat the game on my first try. I can loop the game all day long now. But putting the PS1 version back in, I usually can't make it past the clock tower.

With the current state of emulation, there really is no purpose to playing the PS1 version. All it really has is the new redbook audio arrange music, and even that is broken on the original Japanese release of the game.

Lots of people adore the Dreamcast port of Mars Matrix. But as many on this forum will tell you, it's actually a terrible port of the original CPS2 version. Can you enjoy the PS1 version of Dracula? Sure. But you aren't experiencing how it was meant to be played. The original game really doesn't get difficult until the third loop or so for most Castlevania vets.

[Bassa-Bassa]

The real deal runs in 512x512 31khz resolution.

Correction: runs in double scan 256x256 31khz resolution. It looks as stunning as the Gradius II port, which is not much when you compare it to the original arcade game or the console ports. Sorry, but double scanned graphics can go to hell, even if they may allow occasionally for slightly better hitbox perception, which I won't deny.

It was never meant to have thick scanlines.

Neither the Gradius II port for the system did and yet, the original game shows it should have been. It's not a subject in general I'd just blindly follow the developers' apparent intention.
Anyway, I never defended the Playstation port (though now I'm sure it at least looks much better). What you mention about speeding up the game but not your avatar sounds really tragic. So much for an extra mode and they never actually cared!


Could you confirm the X68030 optimization or the game just doesn't slow down that much on the regular X68000?


How's MAME emulation of this game, BTW? I read that some glitches happen in certain emulators?

[__SKYe]

@SuperDeadite

The PS1 port has more issues than I thought. Thanks for clarifying it.

How's MAME emulation of this game, BTW? I read that some glitches happen in certain emulators?

Don't know about MAME but the game runs very well on XM6 TypeG.

Mine too. It's just a superb game on every front.

When you get to the 2nd stage and Trashard in the Cave starts playing you know you're in for something very special.

The soundtrack is stellar all around, though I'm partial to the SC-55 version. My favourite tune has to be the one used on the tower of dolls.

[Austin]

The PS1 port has "issues" if you are familiar with the X68000 original. For the other 99% of people out there, the PS1 game is fine.

I'd still like to play the original on real X68000 hardware, but it's not looking like that's going to happen any time soon.

[Sumez]

With the current state of emulation, there really is no purpose to playing the PS1 version.

Has X68k emulation really progressed a whole lot?
I remember playing this game on emulator long before the PS1 version came out, and I recall it running pretty perfectly.

Setting up the emulator was a hassle though.

[Sumez]

Btw, I just noticed that the Smash Bros. design for Simon Belmont is modeled 1:1 after the X68000 artwork. Whoa.

[SuperDeadite]

Gradius II does offer 15khz. Hell it has even has the proper Arcade Test mode if you push the right buttons on boot up. It was an arcade game though so having 15khz makes sense. There is no reason Dracula couldn't have had 15khz if the team behind it wanted to. They chose 31khz as it was the best resolution for the monitors people were using 15" or smaller. Sharp did offer a 20"er, but damn expensive and sold terribly.

I do not have an 030, so I have no experience but the game is supposed to have a few little easter eggs for 030 users. On my XVI it runs smooth as butter, so never really looked into 030s, and these days they are way overpriced.

Regardless of port quality, ps1 is still missing some features, like the Real Time Clock and calendar which make a few changes. It is also missing the weird experimental GM MIDI mode. This makes sense as the PS1 does not have a MIDI cable (Saturn and DC both got them oddly enough). For a freak like me, the GM mode is fun to play with though.

https://youtu.be/NRi9HDV6ewE?t=354

Also the doujin made Stereoscopic 3D patch has to be seen to be believed. Just mind blowing.

Music wise the LA tunes are my favorite, but the FM is seriously badass. I actually find the GS to be the worst as it's way more generic and conventional sounding then the others.

XM6 has become quite a good emulator, but like any full function computer you have to know what you are doing. The FM emulation has gotten much better over the years thankfully. Poor sound gives me the runs.

[Bassa-Bassa]

Gradius II does offer 15khz. Hell it has even has the proper Arcade Test mode if you push the right buttons on boot up. It was an arcade game though so having 15khz makes sense.

My bad, then. I was basing my example in this site, which I always thought it was good enough: https://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=x68000:game_notes

Anyway, bad example but my point still stands: Pick whatever arcade/console to X68000 port without a 15khz option: Parodius? Dynamite Duke? Bomberman...? No 15khz option despite being originally 15khz games and having no technical boundaries since the X68000 supposedly is highly versatile (or is it that the system displays always at 55hz in 15khz instead of 60hz? That may be a reason which would explain quite a few things).

There is no reason Dracula couldn't have had 15khz if the team behind it wanted to. They chose 31khz as it was the best resolution for the monitors people were using 15" or smaller. Sharp did offer a 20"er, but damn expensive and sold terribly.

I don't follow, sorry. Why was 31khz the best mode for 15'' monitors and 15khz only fine for 20''?

I do not have an 030, so I have no experience but the game is supposed to have a few little easter eggs for 030 users. On my XVI it runs smooth as butter, so never really looked into 030s, and these days they are way overpriced.

I see, mate. Could you point me to a homepage where those easter eggs are explained perhaps, even if in japanese?
Maybe you even know a site where one can find all the games which officially benefit from being run on a 030 vs. a XVI? I've been told that you can't rely on the "X68030 compatibility" mention on the boxes because that doesn't imply you get any extra?

Regardless of port quality, ps1 is still missing some features, like the Real Time Clock and calendar which make a few changes. It is also missing the weird experimental GM MIDI mode. This makes sense as the PS1 does not have a MIDI cable (Saturn and DC both got them oddly enough). For a freak like me, the GM mode is fun to play with though.

https://youtu.be/NRi9HDV6ewE?t=354

Cool stuff.

The PS1 port has "issues" if you are familiar with the X68000 original. For the other 99% of people out there, the PS1 game is fine.

If you can't clear the PS1 game with one credit unless you're superhuman or just lucky as SuperDeadite implies, then it's not fine by any means, in my opinion. On the other hand, if you can clear the X68000 game's first loop with one credit as easily as SuperDeadite also implies, this one's not such a fine game, either.
Let's see if this thread serves to settle these two questions once and for all so that anybody can form his own opinion, shall we.
How long does a normal 1 loop take?

[copy-paster]

SuperDeadite's word of truth. Emulate or real deal.

X68K ver is one of my favorite game ever. Best choice of game for those who want challenging games. PS1 port cuts upper part of the screen in compromise to 4:3 ratio, and idk whether PS1's clock tower really that hard than X68K ver because this stage and the boss is a test of skill.

Another benefit of playing original version is you can listen to uncompressed MIDI music so this is best experience.

[Bassa-Bassa]

PS1 port cuts upper part of the screen in compromise to 4:3 ratio

Well, it's actually that the PS1 just can't do 256x256. That's why it can't do 55hz, either.

[copy-paster]

How long does a normal 1 loop take?

Normal clear takes around 30-45 minutes depending on your play. This game grants you few extends but from stage 3 onwards every enemy deals you with 4 damage block out of 16, that means 4 hits and you die. For the record I've 1CC'ed Original X68K, PS1 original and arrange.

[Sumez]

I hear a lot of people claiming X68k is their favourite Castlevania game, or close to it.
Every time I've played Chronicles I've had a very hard time enjoying it.

So I just choose to believe that the difference between the two is huge enough that revisiting the original would change my mind on the game, also.

[Bassa-Bassa]

For the record I've 1CC'ed Original X68K, PS1 original and arrange.

And in your opinion, does any of the PS1 versions feel unfair and you simply was lucky enough those times? Because the game then is not as long as to not persisting like in an arcade game.

[BIL]

The PS1 port has "issues" if you are familiar with the X68000 original. For the other 99% of people out there, the PS1 game is fine.

If you can't clear the PS1 game with one credit unless you're superhuman or just lucky as SuperDeadite implies, then it's not fine by any means, in my opinion. On the other hand, if you can clear the X68000 game's first loop with one credit as easily as SuperDeadite also implies, this one's not such a fine game, either.
Let's see if this thread serves to settle these two questions once and for all so that anybody can form his own opinion, shall we.

I cleared the NTSCU PS1 Original Mode last summer, when I was at my parents' place digging through my old stuff. Had been 2-3 years since my last play, so not blind, but rusty as hell. Meanwhile, it's been a decade-plus since I emulated the X68k version. Expected a nightmare but was left going "Ok?" (The HG101 Effect™).

I can believe based on SuperDeadite's posts that X68k is the better experience overall. It sounds like a similar situation to Strider Hiryu's AC and Genesis versions. AC no-miss is a snap, practically console difficulty. Genesis no-miss (the only run that counts in a game so blazingly cinematic ) is harder, strictly due to flaws. Stage 5's setpieces get jammed up by the larger hitboxes, and Options aren't as smart. So you have to take a more piecemeal approach, instead of learnedly slicing through. It's harder, but not better, screwing with Isuke's cinematic flair and making me loathe to replay, where I'll gladly fire up the AC ver and bring Meiou's ambitions crashing down any day of the week.

(I 1LCd both of those on the same visit, too! Damn, kid me had some nice stuff for a non-importer. Speaking of, NTSCJ gets PWNED here. You can't 1LC MD Strider, because the last boss doesn't happen, forcing a suicide at least AFAIK. still looking for clues.)

How long does a normal 1 loop take?

IIRC, including staff rolls, PS1 Original's no-miss is in a similar ~50 minutes ballpark to most of the traditional sequels (III, Rondo, Bloodlines). The original Dracula is maybe 20 minutes a loop, the arcade game a bit less. I just checked my current XX Best End no-miss, and it's 30 minutes. These aren't speedrun estimates, just my dicking around plus a quick glance at others' no-death runs.

Of these games, it's only Castlevania IV that I'd call notably lengthy, at like ~75 minutes a loop if I recall.

Needless to say, with arcade-styled stuff, the no-miss runtime tells you only so much. My current Saigo no Nindou no-miss is ~10 minutes, but it took me far longer to nail down than any traditional Castlevania's 1LC. And even now, I'm nowhere near as confident at repeating it. Deadly game. Besides sheer intensity, there's also content. CVIII and Rondo have multiple characters and routes, easily another game's worth. Bloodlines has a Super Shinobi/Alien Soldier-style performance element that goes far beyond merely no-missing Expert. My own is pitiful, constantly losing POW.

And in your opinion, does any of the PS1 versions feel unfair and you simply was lucky enough those times?

PS1 Original's first loop didn't seem unfair to me, and again it'd been years since I'd played. No real cheap shots that I can recall. Clock Tower & She-Wolf are very tough, but no moreso than CVIII's penultimate stage or XX's Clock Tower & Death (CVIII & XX both being fairly bastardised themselves, admittedly). I could imagine some of X68k's quicker hazards, like the final stage's crossbow knights, are meant to have more of a reaction window, but that's all.

As for the PS1 Dracula port overall, saucykobold probably is superhuman compared to the majority of us, but FWIW he's cleared its eighth loop. So I'm sure you can struggle through somehow. Probably not ideal.

For perspective, I consider CV1's st6 bridge and clock tower the cheapest extended sequence in the entire traditional series (ignoring the blatantly rushed arcade game). The player is woefully overmatched versus the Giant Bats, and without knowing how to nab the Stopwatch, ration it, and escape to 6-3, your few hitpoints will be smacked away fast. VS Castlevania, exponentially moreso. Worth noting that CV1's first incarnation, on FDS, has progress saving. But that doesn't make the sequence any less precognition-reliant. The game's sole real blemish, imo.

Other than the loop's bullshit catacombs, but that's clearly sadomaso territory.

There's also Dracula Densetsu II's last boss and his bullet pattern, which the massive hitbox and inane walk speed turn into a complete Simon Says (Christopher Says? bwaaa!) memoriser. The walk speedup hack at ROMhacking.net greatly alleviates this. If I'd seen anything like that in PS1 Original, I'd have noted it. Sin after sin I have endured, but I retain my wits!

[SuperDeadite]

X68000 can output in 15/24/31. And all of them run at 55htz.
Sharp monitors were all basically arcade monitors with a TV tuner.
They are shadow mask type and the scanlines look more like a tiny grid then what
you will see on Sony PVM or the like.

Honestly these days I think a lot of people have forgotten what monitors actually looked like
back then. "Scanlines as wide as your pinky" were never a thing until years later.

As for 030 support, I know of no place that has a confirmed list, the easter egg rumor comes
from an interview with one of the original devs. Forgot the link, but it's around.

The 030 itself is an odd beast of a machine. A few games like Mahou Daisakusen, Geograph Seal really
benefit from an 030, but the list is rather small. For those that really like to tinker and play around with
computers, it can an interesting secondary machine. But for a gamer, it's just a confusing mess lol.

[__SKYe]

As for 030 support, I know of no place that has a confirmed list, the easter egg rumor comes
from an interview with one of the original devs. Forgot the link, but it's around.

The 030 itself is an odd beast of a machine. A few games like Mahou Daisakusen, Geograph Seal really
benefit from an 030, but the list is rather small. For those that really like to tinker and play around with
computers, it can an interesting secondary machine. But for a gamer, it's just a confusing mess lol.

I have first seen the support for M68030 mentioned in this interview by blackoak. Don't know if any of it qualifies as an easter egg, though.

[BIL]

^ Same one I was gonna link. blackoak, among the forum's greatest national treasures

[__SKYe]

He's the gift that keeps on giving.
Whenever a developer interview is mentioned, my first thought is always shmuplations.

[Austin]

If you can't clear the PS1 game with one credit unless you're superhuman or just lucky as SuperDeadite implies, then it's not fine by any means, in my opinion. On the other hand, if you can clear the X68000 game's first loop with one credit as easily as SuperDeadite also implies, this one's not such a fine game, either.
Let's see if this thread serves to settle these two questions once and for all so that anybody can form his own opinion, shall we.
How long does a normal 1 loop take?

While I respect Deadite's extreme amount of knowledge with this obscure computer stuff, his experiences with the 68k version are probably clouding his ability to enjoy the PS1 game, and that's fair.

However, most of us started (and remain, for obvious reasons) on the PS1 version and seem to not have an issue clearing it. I've personally done all six loops (each on one credit). Pretty sure several others here have as well.

I have no doubt the 68k game is the way to experience the game if you can, but my point is that the PS1 version isn't this "unplayable trash" some might make it out to be.

As for the PS1 Dracula port overall, saucykobold probably is superhuman compared to the majority of us, but FWIW he's cleared its eighth loop. So I'm sure you can struggle through somehow. Probably not ideal.

Eight loops? I've always been under the impression there were only six (that mattered).

Hm.. Might have to fire it up again.