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 Post subject: The Great Escape: The Carlos Ghosn story
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 6:15 am 


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Loads of people here w/ an attachment to or affection for Japan, but no mention of this bombshell in any of it's many stages. Well, the last one is worthy of some shitty Hollywood movie xxx1993 would tell us all about on day one. I for one am quite interested to see where this shit goes (and more importantly how he actually did it, other than with a shitload of money).
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 Post subject: Re: The Great Escape: The Carlos Ghosn story
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:42 am 



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Lol good timing. Today my wife's barely 2 year old Nissan now smells like gas on the inside when the AC is on. I told her not to buy that junk, but she did, and now its time for the warranty. Such garbage.


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 Post subject: Re: The Great Escape: The Carlos Ghosn story
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:56 am 


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No one gives a damn here honestly though he's also technically french, maybe he was more famous in Japan, like he was featured in manga, but heh.
We don't even associate him wih the group's other car brand Renault, which we have here and is even shittier than Nissan.
Maybe if it tunrs into a more exciting running man saga ppl will grab popcorn ? :D
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 Post subject: Re: The Great Escape: The Carlos Ghosn story
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 1:01 pm 


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Xyga wrote:
Maybe if it tunrs into a more exciting running man saga ppl will grab popcorn ? :D


It already was if you care at all about Japan's place in the international community and their farce of a judicial system. Most people I would assume, don't, but there's also a boatload of people here that have either lived there or at least follow the place through pop culture.

He was famous in Japan not for being the chairman of Nissan -- he was famous b/c he saved it from a very certain impending doom.

Back to the point at hand, if anyone as a non-Asian has spent any time in Japan, you know how hard it is to not stick out. (I think the only thing that would work in his favor is his height). This guy was under 24/7 surveillance. Couldn't piss w/o permission. And somehow made it to Osaka (a 5 hour drive away), then a private jet to escape and not got caught.
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Last edited by GaijinPunch on Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:23 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Great Escape: The Carlos Ghosn story
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 1:25 pm 


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According to his wikipedia page he most likely pulled a solid snake

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 Post subject: Re: The Great Escape: The Carlos Ghosn story
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 1:32 pm 


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GaijinPunch wrote:
Xyga wrote:
Maybe if it tunrs into a more exciting running man saga ppl will grab popcorn ? :D


It already was if you care at all about Japan's place in the international community and their farce of a judicial system. Most people I would assume, don't, but there's also a boatload of people here that have either lived there or at least follow the place through pop culture.

He was famous in Japan not for being the chairman of Nissan -- he was famous b/c he saved it from a very certain pending doom.

Back to the point at hand, if anyone as a non-Asian has spent any time in Japan, you know how hard it is to not stick out. (I think the only thing that would work in his favor is his height). This guy was under 24 surveillance. Couldn't piss w/o permission. And somehow made itto Osaka (a 5 hour drive away) to escape and not got caught.


I trust you more than random articles I've read on it. Just now bad is their legal system?
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 Post subject: Re: The Great Escape: The Carlos Ghosn story
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:50 pm 


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Steamflogger Boss wrote:
I trust you more than random articles I've read on it. Just now bad is their legal system?


As a member of the G8, bad. Everything he's bitching about is pretty much true.
- Interrogations are 8 hours a day and you do NOT have the right to have an attorney present. Only a translator.
- Interrogations are not video taped at all (until the confession).
- Jails are clean and safe, although run more like a military: Showers only twice a week. Many to a room. Not very warm). According to a book I read, you are not allowed to speak anything but Japanese EVER unless there is a sponsored translator present. So basically Ghosn couldn't speak to any other inmates as he didn't speak Japanese.
- Incarceration is 3 days, with two 10 day extensions (which are almost always exercised). That's 23 days without being charged. If you haven't picked up on it now - the whole thing is set up to break anyone (guilty or not) into confessing.
- He was continually re-arrested for lesser crimes (but related to financial misdeeds) just as his 23 days were up. All in all, I believe he spent about 4 months in detention before being formally charged.
- Bail was almost $9 million USD. Prosecution argued he shouldn't be released on bail as he could destroy evidence. (Why the fuck didn't they have the evidence after 4 months?!). Also as part of his bail, he was forbidden from talking to his wife. Any developed nation could probably prove cruel and unusual punishment for this part alone.
- Court date was still at least a year away (probably more).

Okay, with all that aside, let's look at what he was being charged with: Under reporting $80 million USD over several years in income to the Tokyo Stock Exchange. (Then later misappropriating company funds, etc.). Honestly I still don't know how this is possible. Japan is the ultimate nanny state and Japan Inc is an extension of the government. It is standard for companies to do taxes (and loads more) for all of it's employees -- especially high profile ones b/c of liabilities. The government is in contact w/ all firms and will tell them if they are not withholding the right amount of taxes with each pay check. (Firms can find out about your side income this way and nix it as well). So yeah, his is kind of Nissan's fault. But anyway...

Gaijin across Japan all said the same thing when the proverbial shit hit the fan: Olympus! The Olympus scandal was a John Grisham worthy saga of Olympus' first gaijin CEO (and one of less than 10 in the history of Japan that were hired within the company) uncovering fraudulent activities to the tune of $687 million dollars. Woodford's book is a very entertaining read. Anyway, the scandal wiped out 75-80% of the company's stock market valuation, some 2700 jobs a year later, and god knows what other types of long term damage to the community in general. Anywho, 3 members of the board were forced to resign. Total jail time for all of that? 0 days. The three board members received suspended sentences.

Ghosn and his lawyers haven't quoted that case I don't think, but everyone else has.

Other bonus bullshit:
-Saikawa, Ghosn's former protege who turned out to be his ouster and was being considered as his replacement was fired from Nissan for... wait for it... improper compensation. :?

- Very informative AMA on Japanese detention.
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 Post subject: Re: The Great Escape: The Carlos Ghosn story
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:49 pm 


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Thanks GP, very informative.
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 Post subject: Re: The Great Escape: The Carlos Ghosn story
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:12 pm 


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Yeah, this story is crazy.

Of course while Japan's 'guilty until proven innocent' justice system is now on full display by the international press, prosecutors will just use this as an excuse to demand for harsher pre-trail sentencing.

I'm trying (and failing) to explain to my Japanese coworkers how I can think Ghosn probably did some shady shit while still thinking Japan's justice system is third-world status.

It reminds me of the arguments I had with some of my Chinese friends about organ harvesting - 'yeah it's not very nice but screw them, they're criminals...'


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 Post subject: Re: The Great Escape: The Carlos Ghosn story
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:15 am 


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scrilla4rella wrote:
Yeah, this story is crazy.

Of course while Japan's 'guilty until proven innocent' justice system is now on full display by the international press, prosecutors will just use this as an excuse to demand for harsher pre-trail sentencing.

I'm trying (and failing) to explain to my Japanese coworkers how I can think Ghosn probably did some shady shit while still thinking Japan's justice system is third-world status.

It reminds me of the arguments I had with some of my Chinese friends about organ harvesting - 'yeah it's not very nice but screw them, they're criminals...'


One of Japan's prosecutors said something like, "people shouldn't criticize judicial systems of foreign nations". :? WTF dude. Jesus these crusty bastards... they're the reason women can't do real work in Japan which is tantamount to blowing their feet off w/ canons.

Anyway, it gets even more laughable. Prosecutors in Tokyo issued an arrest warrant for his wife. If that isn't a threat I don't know what is. Wonder how many high paid CEOs will take offers from ailing Japanese firms now?

Quote:
Ghosn probably did some shady shit while still thinking


I'm sure he did, but Japan Inc is full of criminals. This i just a double standard.
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 Post subject: Re: The Great Escape: The Carlos Ghosn story
PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:40 am 


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Phoenix was Wright after all


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 Post subject: Re: The Great Escape: The Carlos Ghosn story
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:59 pm 


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The Ghosn story and GP's insights about Japan's legal system reminded me when Rurouni Kenshin creator, Nobuhiro Watsuki, was caught in possession of a bunch of DVDs containing child pornography, only to get a slap on the wrist and a 200,000 yen fine, then proceeded to make an half-assed mea culpa and quickly got back into making his manga series.

At the time, I was quite surprised to find out that Japan only banned the possession of child pornography in 2014, and that they even gave the pedos a x period of time to get rid of their material without any legal consequences IIRC.

Never took the time to research why they're so lax about this shit while at the same time being really heavy handed about a number of much minor offenses, although I'm not really sure that I want to open that big can of worms.


Last edited by bottino on Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Great Escape: The Carlos Ghosn story
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:08 pm 


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Carlos Gone
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 Post subject: Re: The Great Escape: The Carlos Ghosn story
PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:34 pm 


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bottino wrote:
The Ghosn story and GP's insights about Japan's legal system reminded me when Rurouni Kenshin creator, Nobuhiro Watsuki, was caught in possession of a bunch of DVDs containing child pornography, only to get a slap on the wrist and a 200,000 yen fine, then proceeded to make an half-assed mea culpa and quickly got back into making his manga series.

At the time, I was quite surprised to find out that Japan only banned the possession of child pornography in 2014, and that they even gave the pedos a x period of time to get rid of their material without any legal consequences IIRC.

Never took the time to research why they're so lax about this shit while at the same time being really heavy handed about a number of much minor offenses, although I'm not really sure that I want to open that big can of worms.


They are weird with porn. Anything not digitized is technically "lude material" and as such illegal. They don't seem to go after personal use, but if you're manufacturing/selling it, that's a huge no no. Again, kiddie stuff... they go after but not with SWAT teams like the US and I hope the rest of the world.

The truth is he most likely apologized profusely... it is one of the cornerstones of the legal system. No joke.
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