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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Warriors Once Again - PS4/Switch
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:27 am 


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Zaarock wrote:
BIL wrote:
Just waiting on it to show up now, admiring Zaarock's 1CC replays and the final trailer. The graphics were the least of my concerns pre-release, but now the buzz is good and I really take 'em in, god damn does this look good.


Ah you're probably mixing me up with iconoclast, I only have a hard 1CC of Raiden up.

BIL wrote:
Raiden is the "playable boss" character in scale terms, but I think Yaksha looks even wilder with the wicked tentacles of ripping doom & XTREEM mobility. Suddenly, DEAD BODIES EVERYWHERE. Dig the biblically ruined BG and contrastingly gorgeous OutRunesque skyline. Image
Spoiler: show
Image


I've been messing around with Yaksha and Kunoichi a lot the past few days. Wasn't sold on some of the formers special moves (namely special movement). But never mind. Used correctly they are all good, even for time attack.

There's some pretty fun time attack competition going on. The game is well balanced so characters tend to use their full kits in runs (at least for now). Ninja is by far the most popular character on the boards and everyone else is working hard to keep them away from the top :lol:
Also raiden cleaning up stage 1. Ninja and Raiden are seem the most straight forward to play for 1CC and time in a way. But the others may have more potential in the end.


Oh blimey yeah, sorry! :o I'm glad Ninja's getting some infamy, he's long deserved a little more spotlight. :mrgreen: One of 2D action gaming's most undersung highlights.

Spoiler: show
Image

After his SFC portrait's imperious gaze, my boy has perfected his murderstare :shock: Goes with his new walk cycle's ominously flexing mitts Image

Looking totally ED-209 From Hell in that Raiden replay! Love the preemptive grenade to the intruding Katana. I also dig how exploding fuel tanks seemingly aren't full-screen bombs any more - looks nastier and punchier, limiting the blast zone to the explosion itself.

Also lmao. Random stream:
Spoiler: show
Image

Looks like he's not quite as vulnerable to crouch P now! Or maybe it's just bad execution, streamer was getting his ass handed to him.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Warriors Once Again - PS4/Switch
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:33 am 


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I never use anyone but the chick. She's just the coolest looking one.

I am interested in the busty robot. She looks pretty cool, and has that grappling thing going on (I think that's her).
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Warriors Once Again - PS4/Switch
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:19 am 


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Yaksha is to TNWAA what Ninja was to TNWA. Image Bizarre yet visceral and utterly unique, practically an entire game unto herself. I can imagine what it must be like to play this with no SFC experience. There's a lot here for lovers of technical 2D violence to get their teeth into.

Also, massive stacked honkers aside, she cute! Crouch walk animation practically doubles as a taunt. :mrgreen:

Been playing the hell out of this, just as planned. :cool: The SFC game is without question in my top ten, more likely top three, so when I say this is about as good it's no faint endorsement. The original's biggest asset versus the remake is probably its aspect ratio, which keeps enemy fists and blades unavoidably nearer the player's throat. The scrum is slightly more opt-in here; Best Fireman Ever CHAINSAW BULL can't carve you into a corner quite so mercilessly. AI is every bit as assholic, though, and with the vastly larger crowds, that extra space can evaporate before you know it's gone. With the game handling even more smoothly than the original, something I might not have thought possible, it's an absolute joy to play. Recommended. Image
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Warriors Once Again - PS4/Switch
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:29 am 


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BIL wrote:
I can imagine what it must be like to play this with no SFC experience. There's a lot here for lovers of technical 2D violence to get their teeth into.

Yeah I think I'll be going through the SFC version before picking this up.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Warriors Once Again - PS4/Switch
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:03 am 


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The basic feel is pretty much 1:1 - other than EX moves on Up+Attack, the biggest thing for SFC players to get their heads around will probably be the new juggle dynamic. It's impressive that they were able to add it without sacrificing one iota of hard-hitting feel. Gravity and speed remain tight, and there's no corner infinites or anything - just a logical, finessed avenue for extra damage. Even Yaksha, who's designed around followup attacks, is appropriately conservative by the standards of something like Guardian Heroes or Panzer Bandit.

Spoiler: show
Image


^ via Iconoclast's Hard 1CC

Kamaitachi's ground EX move looks conspicuously like something a Darius Gaiden boss would fire at high rank. Image

Spoiler: show
Image


CYBER VAIORENCE (`ω´メ)

Haven't put enough time on him yet (mostly Ninja + Yaksha), but his new moves gel nicely with his SFC "trickster" persona. Both ground and air EX seem tailored to dealing with the sole new enemy type, the flying drone. They have a bigger impact than I'd assumed, with their finely harrying, flittery movement - dealing with them rashly can leave you set up for ground enemies, and they can sneak in a humiliating takedown if left unchecked. They're a fine addition to the already well-stocked SFC cast, who've received a smattering of polish here and there. Most notably the Oni Masks, who've graduated from a Knifer HP boost to something more in line with the Rifles. Their new kunai make them a fullscreen nuisance at range, and they have a surprisingly badass three-hit combo for up close. Flamethrowers seem to chain their standing blast off a pair of nasty smacks, can't recall that being in SFC. Chainsaw Bull has a throw, appropriately brutish. st7 boss Zelos now shares the Phasers' grab immunity mode, pretty unnerving if you're used to manhandling him with Ninja.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Warriors Once Again - PS4/Switch
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:30 pm 


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never change bil :lol:

my favorite ninja warriors character is joe hayabusa
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Warriors Once Again - PS4/Switch
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:15 am 


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I GOTS NO CHOICE Image Image

zomg, Ninja can murder muhfuckas with a full gauge and a wall handy. EX nunchuk interspersed with lots of P spam is like dumping watermelons into a jet engine. But actually, walls are surprisingly rare in TNWA and TNWAA alike, so it's not often you can bust out the blender. st2's train and st7's elevators are prime spots - manhandle 'em into the corner and let rip.

Time attack is a great addition - sharply observed, making the timer tick upward. Now you'll really look lame sitting around letting the gauge refill between waves! TNWA was already one of the few games I liked playing for pure speed, or rather, Immortal Murder Machines efficiency. However, still finding my feets, TA is doubling as stage practice mode. :cool: Great to have, with both games being relatively long sessions! Found a small glitch in st7: any items left outside the final elevator will follow you into the boss battle. Crates, fuel tanks and, yes, HP restores! Cheesy, I don't use it! But still, I'm just gonna headcanon it that the
Spoiler: show
GODSPLOSION blew out the floor and they fell down there with you Image
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Warriors Once Again - PS4/Switch
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:29 pm 


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I'm still stuck waiting for my limited edition copy to get shipped, so I'll be slightly late to the party (as always). I guess that's for the better since I have a huge workload right now. Really looking forward to sinking some time into this though once I get it!

Also great to have you back BIL, this place just wasn't the same without you!
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Warriors Once Again - PS4/Switch
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:55 pm 


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Ta bud! I don't think I was quite the same without this place. :mrgreen: Been much the same re: work, the last few months. This is freakishly early for me to get my hands on a game. Kinda planned my summer holiday around it tbh! I seem to be out of excuses not to play at least a few FromSoft games now. :wink:

*record screech*

And aww FUCC :shock: I was hoping it was just my hardware (PS4 slim + DS4), but I think I found a control glitch. [attack] button inputs seem to carry over into grapples, with the result that throws will fire off the instant the grab connects. Really interferes with executing combos at XTREEM speed. The button input has to come within frames of the grab - I didn't notice it with Ninja, because whenever you press [attack] with Ninja, someone dies. With Kunoichi, though, once I was hooked like crack on her new head slicer and its speed demon juggle/movement options, it leapt out. You can notice it with any character by mashing [attack] while picking up an object - you'll throw it once the animation completes.

>video (I try to bust out the flurry to i-frame out of the beating I'm taking, but end up executing the forward instead)

Yo this always happens to me. Image I love 'em 2 death. :oops: Happily, we live in an age of modern wonder! Patch pls, Taniguchi-sama? Image Imma embark on a great adventure to save the honour of my tastefully filled-out ninja waifu!* Image

edit: Oh also, this is probably the sort of H4RDCORE talk best reserved for the SCROLLING ACTION SUPER FUN CLUB, but: Kunoichi's flurry is now invincible. :o I was disappointed, tbh - it's such a cool dynamic on SFC, gambling on landing the game's biggest damage at risk of getting brutally interrupted. However, I will still say she is better than ever here! Because her movement, juggle game and range kills are rad as all fuck. Buzzsawing through a crowd to single out a heavy and land jumpkick -> 4x slash -> flurry -> OTG head slicer -> three shuriken to the chest was given me a murderboner. Image

The head slicer's seamless iaido slice is a thing of beauty. From a distance, I assumed it was the more typical katana roll beloved of Ninja Gaiden and Shin Shinobi Den, and would've been totally happy with that. You can OTG it ridiculously close for a "ground shave" effect... and it's also effectively a doublejump. Save it up if snipers are about to escape a would-be pratfall.

You are already dead, CAPT. BALDHEAD!
Spoiler: show
Image


*girl's hair is lookin' FINE, but I have to pull up that neutral jumping katana, which sees it freeze in place on the last few frames. Only mentioning it because whoever did those sprites was clearly paying mad scientist-esque attention to sculpting her new ass. :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Warriors Once Again - PS4/Switch
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:40 pm 


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It looks like I don't have to wait much longer to play "Ninja Saviors". It's out for delivery.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Warriors Once Again - PS4/Switch
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:24 pm 


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Got the hard 1CC with kunoichi finally. She really feels the most versatile but does suffer from poor range. Horizontal throw is king for crowd control and now you can get juggle combos off it if it hits meaty or far. Also really effective damage wise (gut punch into juggles into bomb etc). Looks like kunoichi might have even more combo potential than Yaksha? I didn't realize the shuriken have that property.. Yaksha has a million launchers though.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Warriors Once Again - PS4/Switch
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:28 pm 


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Zaarock wrote:
Looks like kunoichi might have even more combo potential than Yaksha? I didn't realize the shuriken have that property.


Oh damn, nice. :o
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Warriors Once Again - PS4/Switch
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:18 am 


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So I never properly got into this game on the SNES although I've played it a fair bit—just did a jog through Normal mode with Kunoichi on the Switch and although it's as pleasant as ever I'm still adjusting to the combo-based gameplay. I can get through relatively unscathed just hopping around like a madman and sinking meaty combos into foes when I land on top of their hitboxes, but it doesn't seem proper somehow. I feel the real gameplay is about threat detection and timely countering using an EX move, jump attack, deflection etc.? It's an odd duck but a great one and I love the enhancements and new characters. There aren't too many games of this type where every character is a completely new experience and I'm loving it for that alone.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Warriors Once Again - PS4/Switch
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:25 am 


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it290 wrote:
So I never properly got into this game on the SNES although I've played it a fair bit—just did a jog through Normal mode with Kunoichi on the Switch and although it's as pleasant as ever I'm still adjusting to the combo-based gameplay. I can get through relatively unscathed just hopping around like a madman and sinking meaty combos into foes when I land on top of their hitboxes, but it doesn't seem proper somehow. I feel the real gameplay is about threat detection and timely countering using an EX move, jump attack, deflection etc.?


Having fired up the SFC version this morning to regain a bit of perspective (I kept wanting to chase after thrown enemies with Kunoichi, haha) - both games are about exerting control over volatile melees, just on different scales. I'd somewhat compare them to Raiden and DoDonPachi. TNWA has fewer threats onscreen, but the tight playfield and conservative characters make them individually deadlier. TNWAA ups both sides of the equation; two/three times bigger crowds, but you've got more breathing room, and a good combo can bulldoze enemies in ways undreamed of on SFC.

Connoisseurs of high-performance scrolling violence will probably want both games around. Image

TBH, hopping about nailing big combos sounds about right for Kunoichi. :mrgreen: Properly placed, you'll do a ton of collateral zako damage while battering down harder targets.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Warriors Once Again - PS4/Switch
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:03 pm 


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True - I suppose it’s just that something about the mechanic of placing myself inside enemies instead of skillfully avoiding their attacks aka Viewtiful Joe or something seems a bit odd to me. For the big tank boss dudes in particular, it seems like just standing directly in the middle of their sprite and hammering a combo is the easiest way to deal damage, and that frontal attacks are almost entirely discouraged.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Warriors Once Again - PS4/Switch
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:19 pm 


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it290 wrote:
True - I suppose it’s just that something about the mechanic of placing myself inside enemies instead of skillfully avoiding their attacks aka Viewtiful Joe or something seems a bit odd to me. For the big tank boss dudes in particular, it seems like just standing directly in the middle of their sprite and hammering a combo is the easiest way to deal damage, and that frontal attacks are almost entirely discouraged.


Most oldschool brawlers and beltscrollers tend to be less about reactively evading telegraphed attack animations and more about reactively spacing yourself to avoid fatal zones where you can get instant poked. Basically think of the genre as being single player fighting games (but actually balanced and designed around PvE unlike actual fighting games arcade modes) and you have kind of the idea that the genre thrived on.

The Ninja Warriors is quite a bit different than Final Fight descended beat em ups, but it's still a lot closer to them than what you might be used to with more modern character action games.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Warriors Once Again - PS4/Switch
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:43 pm 


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Totally, but in a standard beltscroller overlapping your sprite with that of an opponent generally results in a grapple animation and doing so is usually not needed unless grappling is the desired outcome; normal attacks are typically deployed frontally with vertical positioning, horizontal spacing, and timing being key. TNW lacks the vertical dimension, so I suppose sprite overlap becomes a more normalized means of getting inside an enemy's attack zone. It still feels slightly unnatural to me (not at all 'bad,' just weird) that walking up to an enemy initiates a grapple but standing right over their sprite doesn't. Other 'flat-plane' brawlers like Guardian Heroes don't really rely on this mechanic (although that game doesn't do grapples at all IIRC except for maybe a command move or two).

Also curious, does anyone know if there's any staff overlap between the original TNWA and X-Men: Mutant Apocalypse? The two games have always seemed somewhat similar to me, from the combat style to the sprite design of the regular grunts and gunners.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Warriors Once Again - PS4/Switch
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:08 pm 


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it290 wrote:
Also curious, does anyone know if there's any staff overlap between the original TNWA and X-Men: Mutant Apocalypse? The two games have always seemed somewhat similar to me, from the combat style to the sprite design of the regular grunts and gunners.


AFAIK, the latter was made by Capcom themselves. The game doesn't seem to have any credits. Moby Games only lists music composers, both of which worked on SNES Mega Man games. The game's music sounds very similar to the music in Mega Man X.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Warriors Once Again - PS4/Switch
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:39 am 


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Oof, the last boss is kicking my ass on hard.

Spoiler: show
So much chaos going on with all the adds once his lifebar gets low and such a small window to execute the up throw. Anyone have tips? Is there another way to damage him besides throwing goons at him? Yaksha seems the best at quick damage with her EX tentacle slam, but the startup frames on that make it nearly impossible to execute when the screen is crowded. Having a hard time with Ninja as the alignment spot to get the spin toss working seems so small.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Warriors Once Again - PS4/Switch
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:50 am 


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Ninja's spin throw ended up doing the job. Didn't realize you can hold an input down to direct the toss left or right.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Warriors Once Again - PS4/Switch
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:59 am 


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BrianC wrote:
AFAIK, the latter was made by Capcom themselves. The game doesn't seem to have any credits. Moby Games only lists music composers, both of which worked on SNES Mega Man games. The game's music sounds very similar to the music in Mega Man X.

In general, both of Capcom's SNES single-plane brawlers have a look and feel that's very reminiscent of the Mega Man X games in a lot of subtle ways, if not just the art style. I'm pretty sure they shared a lot of team members, if not completely the same team.

I think similarities to TNWA is mostly just from it being, well, a single plane brawler.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Warriors Once Again - PS4/Switch
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:54 am 


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It's Wild Guns I get the most undeniable TNWA buzz from tbh. Despite the Radical Genre Shift™, Natsume's grasp of i-frames and how to deploy them in the heat of battle had attained godlike levels. Maximum smoothness! Maximum tension!

it290 wrote:
Ninja's spin throw ended up doing the job. Didn't realize you can hold an input down to direct the toss left or right.


Giant swing is some good stuff in TNWAA, got a pointblank dynamic now. Anyone at ground zero is getting not one, not two, but three batterings from their comrade's haplessly ragdolling corpse! Image Direction select lets you prioritise who gets it worse. :cool:

Actually tbh I guess it's not a giant swing at all is it? That'd be grabbing them by the ankles. This is just scruffin' 'em and smashing their head repeatedly into the nearest hard surface! Image Image
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Warriors Once Again - PS4/Switch
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:56 pm 


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Hard last boss is hellish with Raiden. I guess he pays the price for having an easy time with the rest of the game.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Warriors Once Again - PS4/Switch
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:27 pm 


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Sumez wrote:
BrianC wrote:
AFAIK, the latter was made by Capcom themselves. The game doesn't seem to have any credits. Moby Games only lists music composers, both of which worked on SNES Mega Man games. The game's music sounds very similar to the music in Mega Man X.

In general, both of Capcom's SNES single-plane brawlers have a look and feel that's very reminiscent of the Mega Man X games in a lot of subtle ways, if not just the art style. I'm pretty sure they shared a lot of team members, if not completely the same team.

I think similarities to TNWA is mostly just from it being, well, a single plane brawler.


yeah, I got the same MMX vibes from the game, not just from the music.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Warriors Once Again - PS4/Switch
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:08 pm 



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Hoping my copy hurries the hell up since I'm hype to start digging in, doubt it'll make it before the weekend though.

The one time I plump for economy mail :o
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Warriors Once Again - PS4/Switch
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:07 am 


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Sumez wrote:
I think similarities to TNWA is mostly just from it being, well, a single plane brawler.


Yeah, probably. There is definitely some similarity in the character design, but perhaps not as much as there had been in my mind's eye, and X-Men's palette is obviously a lot more standard SNES Capcom pastelly.

Image

Zaarock wrote:
Hard last boss is hellish with Raiden. I guess he pays the price for having an easy time with the rest of the game.


Oof, I can't even imagine—how the hell do you evade the laser walls?

stryc9 wrote:
The one time I plump for economy mail :o


I hardly ever splurge on expedited shipping but was glad I did for this one, was too impatient after I realized the US release was still a month out.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Warriors Once Again - PS4/Switch
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:42 am 


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it290 wrote:
Oof, I can't even imagine—how the hell do you evade the laser walls?


The Stomp.

I wish I was joking.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Warriors Once Again - PS4/Switch
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 3:19 pm 


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PerishedFraud ឵឵ wrote:
it290 wrote:
Oof, I can't even imagine—how the hell do you evade the laser walls?


The Stomp.

I wish I was joking.


You need to memorize the laser pattern and have a plan for everything beforehand. Raiden's Evade is actually really good and a fast way to move without consuming the meter of the blaster mode jump (not that you'd use it here). But you can jump behind groups of enemies in the last boss while guarding using evade, then hopefully forward throw the group from a good position.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Warriors Once Again - PS4/Switch
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:19 pm 


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BIL wrote:
Having fired up the SFC version this morning to regain a bit of perspective (I kept wanting to chase after thrown enemies with Kunoichi, haha) - both games are about exerting control over volatile melees, just on different scales. I'd somewhat compare them to Raiden and DoDonPachi. TNWA has fewer threats onscreen, but the tight playfield and conservative characters make them individually deadlier. TNWAA ups both sides of the equation; two/three times bigger crowds, but you've got more breathing room, and a good combo can bulldoze enemies in ways undreamed of on SFC.

Connoisseurs of high-performance scrolling violence will probably want both games around.


This is actually one of the things I was most curious about. From the moment the game was announced I wondered how the increased screen space would end up impacting the original's elegant and finely-tuned balance, and I hadn't really seen any of the people who have played the game so far comment on that. The opinion so far seems to be that Once Again is a flatly better version, which I can definitely believe, but it's good to hear that it does have its own unique character as a result of the balance changes and doesn't necessarily obsolete the original.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Warriors Once Again - PS4/Switch
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:21 am 


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Joined: 05 Mar 2008
Posts: 4215
Location: Brazil
I've been reading about this game for a while now, happy to see it's even better than the original. I'm hoping for a Steam release.
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mastermx wrote:
xorthen wrote:
You guys are some hardcore MOFOs and masochists.


This is the biggest compliment you can give to people on this forum.


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