Devil May Cry 5

[Obscura]

Surely I'm not the only person here binging on this?

Anyways, on my DMD run now, up to mission 11, but the last two fights of that one are kicking my ass (especially Cavaliere Angelo). DH and SoS difficulty were a joke, and the first 9 missions on DMD weren't too tough, but damn this game turns up the heat on DMD as soon as you hit the Dante missions. I guess they do call it "Dante Must Die" and not "Nero Must Die", heh...

[Austin]

I'm having a hell of a time with DMD on V's missions. I am still on the first set and got to the first boss with him (the multi-worm guy) and struggled hard. After an hour and a half of it I gave in and used a Gold orb (I had reached the checkpoint with less than a third of my health bar so I didn't have much room for screw-ups). Enemies in general are super aggressive on DMD so I'll be curious how I'll handle with Dante.

SoS wasn't bad for me at all but the Virgil fight with Dante was a massive difficulty spike and sort of came out of nowhere. I refused to use orbs and so I had to work on it for a while. It was a very satisfying fight though when I finally got it down.

[Obscura]

I recommend using "restart mission" instead of "checkpoint", both to avoid situations where you're at low health at the checkpoint and also to bolster your mission ratings (you get a huge bonus for using no checkpoints or gold orbs). And also because it's how the old DMCs played.

If you struggled with Nidhogg, you're going to really struggle with mission 5. Some tips with V:

1. Always read the book. Always. V is really dependent on having lots of DT.
2. Call Nightmare in two situations -- either a pet is down, or your DT bar is full. When you do call him, try to unsummon him early enough that you keep enough DT to call him again to revive a pet. This is going to be really critical against Geyron, some of his attacks simply can't be dodged if you're missing one of your dodge options.
3. Focus on the "neutral stick + hold button, charge, release" attack with Griffon unless you need to use his Stinger to knock something down for Shadow to be able to get to. While charging him, you can still combo with Shadow. A lot of people recommend remapping his controls to make this easier, but I've managed to get by holding down X while tapping Y for Shadow combos.

[Steamflogger Boss]

This game fuuuuuuucks.

[Obscura]

This game fuuuuuuucks.

The first time you get an S ranked combo with Nero and the dynamic music transitions from the angsty "gotta let it out, gotta let it out" verse into that soaring female vocal chorus is one of the most hype moments ever in a single-player game. So sick.

I'm starting to really love the more forgiving JCs in this game. It's not as big of a deal with Nero (he didn't need JCs in DMC 4 to stay in the air forever thanks to devil bringer/buster/roulette spin/calibur all either adding height or maintaining it in calibur's case), but DMC 5's version of Dante flows the best of any version yet, especially with him finally having reasons to use non-Rebellion/Sparda/DSD weapons other than Real Impact. Gotta love the new emphasis on launchers done from mid-air, Air Trick -> launch from the air with Cavaliere or Balrog is just such a sweet approach. At first, I was a bit skeptical of how Swordmaster is relatively niche compared to DMC 4 (especially once you get DSD and prop and aerial rave are on every style), but actually having four viable weapons (and even three viable guns!) means that there's still plenty to do, even if SM style is only used for the occasional Cavaliere combo, Balrog uppercuts, finishing the last enemy with a Dance Macabre for style points, and for extra damage in DT.

(That said, I'm still generally leaving Balrog at home and going with a DSD/Cavaliere/Cerberus loadout, just because most of the stuff I'd use Balrog for I can sort-of do with something else and the Balrog mode-switch is just one step too many in the heat of battle a lot.)

[evil_ash_xero]

Ah, I played this and finished it a while back.

I have mixed feelings on it. The game is definitely good, but halfway through, the linearity hurts the game. It just knocks it down a digit or so. Not a fan of that decision.
You can say the game is "linear" early on, but it's not a straight hall. It would even be more tolerable if all the latter stages looked more interesting, or different from each other.

My critique.

[Austin]

Ah, I played this and finished it a while back.

I have mixed feelings on it. The game is definitely good, but halfway through, the linearity hurts the game. It just knocks it down a digit or so. Not a fan of that decision.
You can say the game is "linear" early on, but it's not a straight hall. It would even be more tolerable if all the latter stages looked more interesting, or different from each other.

My critique.

My feelings completely. The majority of the playthrough has you being funneled down one linear path (in many cases a literal straight line), occasionally being blocked off for no apparent reason and being forced to encounter the same repetitious fights. There's also the issue of--for story reasons I suppose--making you replay the same levels again, albeit from a different character's route and perspective. I had to face-palm when the game had me getting to the intro boss for a third time.. ugh. These issues are also compounded by the fact the game is at least a couple hours longer than previous entries in the series, yet it has significantly less level variety than them. Games in the series can be guilty of making you retread through previously played areas, but the areas in and of themselves are at least more interesting to play through.

I have other nitpicks but I've mostly warmed up to them. As a first play though it's one of the weaker in the series for me. The issues are somewhat mitigated on Dante Must Die where the enemies are a supreme threat and the combinations of different types are much more dangerous. Regardless of the difficulty, the boss fights were great for me and the combat is ultimately satisfying.

[Ajora]

I've only ever played through the third entry in the series. Been thinking about playing through it a second time as Dante and Vergil again on hard mode. Incredible game, even though the story was dumb and Dante kinda annoyed me. I like him more as a character when he becomes older. I watched all of the DMC anime. It was pretty lackluster, even though the character designs were good and I liked Dante and Lady quite a bit. The character works better when he's more subdued and isn't a petty, arrogant brat jumping up and down for attention.

[Mischief Maker]

I had resigned myself to never getting to play this game because the PC version had some ridiculous Starforce-ass DRM that slowed the game and damaged SSDs. Well a couple days ago I'm browsing the GOG forums and learned that Capcom removed the DRM! And inadvertantly made the game fully Steam-free if you remove/rename "steam_api64.dll" (at the cost of disabling all DLCs). Hooray!

Ah, in a time where every goddamn game wants to be dark souls, what a breath of fresh air to return to the smooth stamina-meter-free gameplay of Devil May Cry. And holy shit have I gotten rusty after ~10 years!

Early impressions, I like that Nero no longer looks identical to Dante, I like that they got rid of his stupid canned throw animations, I like the disposable arms, they provide something to spend red orbs on after filling out your skill list. I am SO HAPPY they shitcanned "proud souls" and give you skills from red orbs like old times. Toothy nerd girls have never been my type but holy shit is the shop chick disabusing me of that notion.

Between a new asset dump for Freespace 2 Open, Serious Sam 4, and now DMC V, this has been a banner year in terms of my 3 favorite game series!

[Squire Grooktook]

I think DMC5 is tied with DMC3, for me. DMC3 I still kinda like the most in some ways from a "less is more" approach. It's got a smaller, refined moveset, only one character to play (outside of Vergil mode), and very focused level design...but that first one is the most important. Hitting SSS Rank feels more intense when you have so much less to work with. In contrast 4 and 5 have more of a "toybox" appeal, and ultimately come down more to creating your own movie action scenes IMO.

And DMC5 is incredible on that front. Wait till you get to Dante, MM. His new mechanics, weapons, and movesets are incredible and have near limitless depth.

The game as a whole is basically what DMC4 was meant to be. A much grander and more polished take on the formula. I still feel that Nero and V sort of water the experience down a bit and simply can't compare to Dante (in gameplay or story), but the payoff is worth it.

[Mischief Maker]

Okay, I am NOT liking V. I realize he's supposed to play like all the other characters but his disconnection from the actual action is discombobulating. I've taken to just mashing the panther and bird buttons wildly and I'm getting S ranks (on easy admittedly). This whole "try the novelty character before we finally let you play the guy you actually want" schtick should have died with 4. Giving you a choice of characters before the start of every mission so the novelty characters are an option instead of a requirement would have been much, much better.

[Squire Grooktook]

Sadly V is the weakest part of the game, yea. He's very cool conceptually, but he just feels kinda wonky to play. My biggest issue is that you have to mash the button constantly to make your familliars do anything, yet at the same time you never really feel like your in control anyway. There's nothing you can really do to defend them as far as I can tell once they are close, and the spacing on the Panther is incredibly annoying: Hit the attack button from a slight distance? He's summoned right to your side and you better have fun mashing the button to have him slowly swipe his way towards the enemy. Trying to summon him directly to the enemy from point blank range? Oops, he was already out and got stuck on the environment behind you and is a million miles away.

That being said V gets the least screen time out of all the characters, and at least two missions playing him is completely optional. So it's hard to take off too many points for him.

[Mischief Maker]

Okay, just finished it on Easy. I no longer feel guilty for playing it on easy, the damn campaign is like one long tutorial. Nero doesn't even get his devil trigger until the final battle!

To draw an comparison to the Ys series, I'd say DMC5 is Ys Origin to DMC3's Oath in Felghana. Superior gameplay, but a less overall polished product.

Devil Trigger is maybe my favorite combat song in the series, so I was shocked how bland and forgettable Dante's new battle theme is, and that V's music is ear-cancer. Maybe it's a poor choice like a fox because it tempts you to buy the previous games' soundtrack through the in-game store. I just used the settings to make Devil Trigger the combat music for everyone.

The game really opened up once Dante was playable. Wow, is this game a best-of for the entire series, both in terms of Dante's weapons and the enemy types it spits up. Too bad it doesn't have the plot to match. The one good thing I can say is it delivers on the "Is Dante bad now?" vibe part 4 tried and failed to deliver (or at least, "Is Dante a total jerk now?" vibes).

I'm happy. Now to grind up those red orbs so I can unlock jump canceling and start playing the real game!

[Queen Charlene]

somehow i missed this thread, but i LOVE Devil May Cry 5. although DMC3 is objectively the better game (because it is an absolute masterclass on both game design and cinema and the game understands both so well that it manages to be more cinematic than most AAA games released in the last 15 years -- that's another long topic for a video i'll make eventually lol), DMC5 is a delicious plate of top tier dinner. V is really fun once you start to get a picture of how he's meant to be controlled (he's very very very different), and Dante is a BLAST, but i actually think playing with Nero is about equally as fun and technically demanding as Dante is; especially once you start using the hell out of your Devil Breakers and not conserving them (it took me several playthroughs to stop being ultra-conservative with them). Nero's actually the only one i've beaten Bloody Palace with so far, haha.

i'm waiting with bated breath for DMCV: VERGIL EDITION. i can't wait to see how the switching between Vergil and V mechanics work. and i also am really interested to see what it's going to include content-wise.

[cave hermit]

I really need to spend more time with DMC V, it is an amazing fucking game on all fronts, gameplay, presentation, characters (ok maybe the story is a bit weak, but the characters themselves are really the stars of the show).

I bought the game on PS4 at launch, but didn't really play it for the longest time (combination of OCD and depression had seriously dulled all my senses), when I finally did get around to beating it on devil hunter, it was kind of also marking the return of my sick skillz.

Eventually I bought the PC version, but mostly just as a benchmark game, I didn't really play the PC version seriously. Now that I have a brand new PC though, I'm hoping to really start binging the game. Assuming I pull myself away from Blood and DOTA 2 first.

V's gameplay is a major turnoff for me though. Nero and Dante are fantastic.

Also kind of pissed that Capcom is skipping special edition for PC, but hey mods.

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

I feel like DMC5 ended up being better than DMC3 in most ways. What DMC3 really has going for it is that it has a more cohesive-feeling first playthrough. The power progression feels a little more grounded since there's only one playable character throughout your initial playthrough, so you spend the whole game slowly building up and acclimatizing to Dante, while at the same time working your way through the tower, set up as a vaguely interconnected location. (The story benefits from this single-perspective too - I think it's one of the better stories in this type of action game, though that's overall less important here.) DMC5 has you constantly jumping around between characters and locations; compared to 3 it feels pretty disconnected, and the environmental progression almost feels incoherent sometimes (and it doesn't help that the areas inside the demon tree run together). DMC4 and DMC5 feel like games that are purely intended to be replayed, while DMC3 at least plays at the idea of being a one-and-done, wholly satisfying first playthrough, which I think helps 3 resonate better with a lot of people.

However, I think DMC3 is tremendously held back by its weak enemy lineup. The bosses are excellent - overall, they're still probably better than 5's - but you spend most of the game fighting standard enemies, of course, and many of them just aren't fun to fight. The standard Hell grunts are solid low-tier enemies who actually have very good synergy together, but that isn't enough to carry the game, and as the game goes on more and more enemies are introduced who simply aren't enjoyable or interesting to engage with like bloodgoyles (the blood birds who have to be shot first), dullahans (the knights who must be hit in the back), and especially the chess pieces, who are tedious damage sponges and appear far too frequently (the miniboss battle with the chess board at the end of the game is fun, though). To be honest, I feel DMC3 is ultimately a weaker game than both DMC1 and 4 solely because of this, despite having extraordinarily fun elements and still being very good overall.

DMC5 has some particular shortcomings and doesn't entirely obsolete 3 (great bosses, great "campaign progression") or 4 (which has some standout, really excellent enemies) but I think it's the best game in the series overall - depending on how I feel about 1 on any given day, at least.

[Queen Charlene]

However, I think DMC3 is tremendously held back by its weak enemy lineup. The bosses are excellent - overall, they're still probably better than 5's - but you spend most of the game fighting standard enemies, of course, and many of them just aren't fun to fight. The standard Hell grunts are solid low-tier enemies who actually have very good synergy together, but that isn't enough to carry the game, and as the game goes on more and more enemies are introduced who simply aren't enjoyable or interesting to engage with like bloodgoyles (the blood birds who have to be shot first), dullahans (the knights who must be hit in the back), and especially the chess pieces, who are tedious damage sponges and appear far too frequently (the miniboss battle with the chess board at the end of the game is fun, though). To be honest, I feel DMC3 is ultimately a weaker game than both DMC1 and 4 solely because of this, despite having extraordinarily fun elements and still being very good overall.

DMC5 has some particular shortcomings and doesn't entirely obsolete 3 (great bosses, great "campaign progression") or 4 (which has some standout, really excellent enemies) but I think it's the best game in the series overall - depending on how I feel about 1 on any given day, at least.

honestly i can absolutely agree with this; the point about the enemies in DMC3 is especially true. Dullahans are lame and the Angels are really lame too. the gas enemies are unbelievably annoying on higher difficulties, and the Enigmas once they start shooting red arrows and dashing away from you become honestly one of the worst enemies to fight in the game. there's an insane amount of "enemies you have to chase" or "enemies you have to wait to hit" and i think it actually interrupts the flow of combat a lot. i actually do agree that DMC5 is overall the best game in the series in terms of things that i really enjoy about it.

honestly, for the first year of DMC5 being out, i was completely unable to decide whether or not 5 or 3 was the better game. i've been replaying the games a lot and i think where 3 hits in a way that 5 doesn't is the way that it very flawlessly blends its mechanics with its cinematics in a way that feels very honest and intentional, and the way the story flows with the gameplay is pristine. it's a big reason why i say DMC3 is a "better cinematic gaming experience" than almost every modern AAA game that wants to be "cinematic".

DMC3 exercises such amazing knowledge of both mediums and executes its goals in ways that i think DMC5 doesn't necessarily do as well. on the other hand, DMC5 is basically a DMC fan's wet dream when it comes to the cutscene and story imo; i actually think it does a great job of actually giving Nero a character outside of "Dante-lite who never stops yelling his girlfriend's name" that he was in 4 and ties the knot between his relationship with Vergil in a way that's mostly pretty clean, although extremely sudden. it also did a really great job of fleshing out the relationship (and the differences) between Dante and Vergil and i think ended in a way that feels like a genuine bond between the two. there's a lot of subtleties in the DMC5 story that can be hard to notice immediately; the game is in and of itself a love letter to everyone who's stuck with the series, and that's beautiful.

it feels like an even more significant "rebirth" for the series than DMC3 was for the lackluster DMC2; 5 had a lot riding on it, and when you consider just how much this game had riding on it, it's an absolute achievement of gaming that this game managed to be as good -- let alone absolutely phenomenal -- as it is.

[Squire Grooktook]

I actually think the enemies in DMC3 are pretty solid, it's just that they're visually repetitive: the 7 Hells all have unique attacks (IIRC) and gimmicks and work perfectly for varied mobs. They're as aggressive as they need to be while still being fun to style on. It's just that they're all fucking skeletons.

As I said, my main reason for thinking DMC3's gameplay is equal to or better than DMC5 is again the "less is more" approach. In DMC3 you really need to THINK to get that SSS Rank. You have to work hard to build it up with a mix of planning and improv and it absolutely feels like an an adrenal rush when you pull it off. The "don't repeat moves" fundamental conceit of the style system is so much more meaningful and challenging when you have a much smaller, much tighter arsenal and moveset. In comparison, with so many moves at your disposal in DMC5, sometimes it feels like I get SSS Ranks out of nowhere when I'm just getting started and barely warmed up. I'm like "What? Already? Oh well! Guess I'll just roll with it!"

Not a criticism of DMC5, mind you. I think it just works from a different perspective. DMC3 is more like a "real" scoring system (though I'd never hold it up entirely as such), while DMC4 and DMC5 are more like combo movie fodder. Stuff where you're really just trying to put on a show for its own sake.

[Mischief Maker]

I feel like DMC5 ended up being better than DMC3 in most ways. What DMC3 really has going for it is that it has a more cohesive-feeling first playthrough. The power progression feels a little more grounded since there's only one playable character throughout your initial playthrough, so you spend the whole game slowly building up and acclimatizing to Dante, while at the same time working your way through the tower, set up as a vaguely interconnected location. (The story benefits from this single-perspective too - I think it's one of the better stories in this type of action game, though that's overall less important here.) DMC5 has you constantly jumping around between characters and locations; compared to 3 it feels pretty disconnected, and the environmental progression almost feels incoherent sometimes (and it doesn't help that the areas inside the demon tree run together). DMC4 and DMC5 feel like games that are purely intended to be replayed, while DMC3 at least plays at the idea of being a one-and-done, wholly satisfying first playthrough, which I think helps 3 resonate better with a lot of people.

I wholeheartedly agree. Like Serious Sam 4, this is a game I'm enjoying much more the second time through. Although in DMC5's case it's because Nero and Dante both undergo massive gameplay shifts by the endgame. I had to completely remap my Nero buttons after he got his ghost arm powers back plus his devil trigger. And Dante spends the first 2/3rds of the game going from Rebellion to Sparda all with the classic controls intact, but then when the two are superseded by the Dante sword, the controls get all mixed up (eg. Helm Splitter switches from a forward stick move to a back stick one) and then they dump you into a boss battle without even giving you some mooks to practice on. (Admittedly the Dante sword layout is superior to the old one, I just don't know why they didn't have Rebellion and Sparda use the new layout considering they already rearranged Nero's moves).

Even V's growing on me as I unlock more moves.

[Mischief Maker]

PSA: I'm sad to report that I checked before buying the Vergil DLC and Devil May Cry 5 is no longer Steam-DRM-free with the latest build.

Thank God I burned it to disk while I had the chance!