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 Post subject: Re: The one (or more) mechanic that ruined a game you loved.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:08 pm 


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I also like the GBA ports of SMB3 and Super Mario World, even though they are technically inferior to the SNES version in some ways. The former for the e-reader/extra levels and the latter for the addition of a different playing Luigi. I just wish Nintendo focused more on making new games that took advantage of the hardware instead of working on mostly ports and having games like Zelda and F-Zero outsourced to other companies. I'm also thankful for hacks that reverse the color changes of games like Super Mario World.


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 Post subject: Re: The one (or more) mechanic that ruined a game you loved.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:09 pm 


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the GBA FF ports are really nice, too.


If you mean Final Fantasy, while the other games are good quality for handheld ports, the first game sadly had its balance ruined in favour of bringing it in line with other modern Final Fantasy games. Healing items are ridiculously plentiful and you can carry far more potent ones above the basic potions you were normally limited to, petrification and death are now curable mid-battle (unlike classic D&D rules on which the game was originally loosely based, where such strong healing spells needed so much time to cast they were out-of-battle only), multitarget healing spells were made vastly stronger. Spells are nigh-infinite now as opposed to a limited resource as they use a refillable MP system with MP restorative items being easily obtained. Exp gain is also vastly increased, so the main game essentially has no challenge now outside of the bosses in the bonus dungeon (especially the ones who rely on multi-target non-elemental spells) and the final story boss (who has 10x as much health as compared to the NES version and who benefits significantly from the revamped spell damage system, thus hitting much harder with his array of unique spells).

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White Wizards are essentially nigh-unkillable and a team of 4 White Wizards is, in my opinion, the strongest team in the game against any of the bosses due to their sheer unkillability and healing potential (best buffs, best healing, full-HP revive, limitless boss damage potential thanks to Masamune or Ultima Weapon + Giant Gauntlet buffing).

White Wizards can obtain a flat-out insane piece of equipment in the PSP/handheld release which basically is the GBA port + high res graphics and an extra dungeon that adds 10% max HP healed at the start of every turn, though at that point you've demolished the superboss (and 4 White Wizards are suboptimal for the new dungeon which has time limits on floors and thus speedier damage dealers and characters like Knight or Red Wizard who can use some of the new crazy equipment like Barbarian's Sword are good to have in party).


The PS1 Final Fantasy Origins remake remains the best re-release of FF1 for the NES. It is mechanically relatively unchanged, aside from a few key bugfixes for spells (Temper and Saber now work correctly). Bosses are given HP boosts (double HP if I'm not mistaken) to balance the bugfixes out but otherwise the game is largely faithful and retains the balance and feel of the original NES version in terms of how you have to manage your limited resources and spell charges in dungeons.
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 Post subject: Re: The one (or more) mechanic that ruined a game you loved.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:28 pm 


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Oh sorry. I forgot the 1+2 one exists. I was specifically thinking of FF5 and FF6 on GBA :)


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 Post subject: Re: The one (or more) mechanic that ruined a game you loved.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:50 pm 


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Oops, ranted over nothing, carry on!
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 Post subject: Re: The one (or more) mechanic that ruined a game you loved.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:27 pm 


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BareKnuckleRoo wrote:
The PS1 Final Fantasy Origins remake remains the best re-release of FF1 for the NES. It is mechanically relatively unchanged, aside from a few key bugfixes for spells (Temper and Saber now work correctly). Bosses are given HP boosts (double HP if I'm not mistaken) to balance the bugfixes out but otherwise the game is largely faithful and retains the balance and feel of the original NES version in terms of how you have to manage your limited resources and spell charges in dungeons.


While I mostly agree with you, I do want to add that having a bottomless inventory makes the game a bit easier since you never have to throw away any weapons or armor. It gives you access to a larger pool of free magic than would have been possible in the original and lets any member of the party use any piece of un-equipped equipment as an item. Not game-breaking or anything, but still worth mentioning.

BareKnuckleRoo wrote:
Dawn of Souls BS


If I didn't have enough reasons to play the later remakes before...

Sumez wrote:
Oh sorry. I forgot the 1+2 one exists. I was specifically thinking of FF5 and FF6 on GBA :)


Weren't there numerous complaints about downgraded music in GBA FFVI?
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 Post subject: Re: The one (or more) mechanic that ruined a game you loved.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:59 pm 


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It gives you access to a larger pool of free magic than would have been possible in the original and lets any member of the party use any piece of un-equipped equipment as an item


Unfortunately this is also to the game's detriment IMO; there were some interesting choices to be made in terms of equipment since you could only carry 4 pieces of armour - do you use something with a use magic effect or something stronger but that has no magic spell casting ability? Do you give it to a physical attacker to have magic as a backup, or do you give it to a spellcaster to have infinite charges of a spell you'd probably want them using anyways?

In the remake, freely usable infinitely carryable equipment eliminates any semblance of strategy here. I do think that there should probably have been 6 slots for weapons and armor so you can equip 4 pieces of armor and still have room to pick up something new or carry usable ones, but infinite carrying capacity removes some of the meaningful equipment decisions you originally had to make in terms of who had what on them.

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Weren't there numerous complaints about downgraded music in GBA FFVI?


There were similar complaints with the release of Mother 2 (Earthbound) in Mother 1+2 for GBA but in both cases the complaints tended to be from people who didn't understand and accept that the SNES had richer sound capabilities than the GBA, and that the music in the ports is downgraded due to the nature of the hardware and is an acceptable tradeoff considering they are handhelds ports.
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 Post subject: Re: The one (or more) mechanic that ruined a game you loved.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:25 pm 


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It's also important to mention the GBA port of FFIV had some major glitches when released in the US, many of which were fixed for the EU release.

edit: I read the "fixed" version (which also came out in Japan) actually broke a couple things. Damage reduction from the back row doesn't work like it should and only bows are penalized.


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 Post subject: Re: The one (or more) mechanic that ruined a game you loved.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:02 pm 


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After so many years, it saddens me that there doesn't really exist a definitive edition of my favorite video game; Final Fantasy 6. If there was one thing I found lacking in the Super Famicom release it's that there was a notable absence of endgame content, which is something that I always look for in a Final Fantasy game. The GBA port rectified this, but unfortunately, the port's graphics are very washed out and the hardware capabilities butcher the sublime soundtrack. And while the Steam version has the GBA bonus content and the music sounds the way it should, the character redesigns are just embarrassing to look at. Who thought redesigning the characters like that was a good idea?
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 Post subject: Re: The one (or more) mechanic that ruined a game you loved.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:53 pm 


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You're the first person I've seen to describe the World of Ruin as an absence of endgame content. I don't feel it has any less in that department than the titles in the series that preceded it.
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 Post subject: Re: The one (or more) mechanic that ruined a game you loved.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:01 pm 


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WelshMegalodon wrote:
You're the first person I've seen to describe the World of Ruin as an absence of endgame content. I don't feel it has any less in that department than the titles in the series that preceded it.


Not true. The original release of Final Fantasy 5 provided you with two super bosses to deal with after completing the game. In the original release of Final Fantasy 6, there weren't any battles tougher than the last one. Completing the Fanatics Tower is usually the very last thing you'll do before going to the final area.
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 Post subject: Re: The one (or more) mechanic that ruined a game you loved.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:31 pm 


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I guess you're thinking of postgame then. :) I'd say the entirety of World of Ruin is definitely "endgame", as soon as you get the airship. Basically you get the entire world as your playground, and you can go anywhere you want, and also go directly to the final boss if you feel like it. I love this kind of design, and really miss it in most other FF games.

I don't really understand though, by the time you are able to take on the final boss, why would you want anything "tougher" anyway? I think FF6 has a really good length as it is, but I don't mind the extra content on GBA.
If you like, you can think of the floating continent as the final boss, and everything after that as postgame? :P


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 Post subject: Re: The one (or more) mechanic that ruined a game you loved.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:01 pm 


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I said end game, when I meant to say post game. My bad. Personally, one of the things I most look forward to in a JRPG is having at least one incredibly difficult boss to deal with after I've beaten the main game. Ozma would probably be my favorite.
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 Post subject: Re: The one (or more) mechanic that ruined a game you loved.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:05 am 


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Sumez wrote:
Basically you get the entire world as your playground, and you can go anywhere you want, and also go directly to the final boss if you feel like it. I love this kind of design

So do I, it's awesome


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 Post subject: Re: The one (or more) mechanic that ruined a game you loved.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:31 am 


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I don't really understand though, by the time you are able to take on the final boss, why would you want anything "tougher" anyway?


I can understand the complaint. I was a bit sad there wasn't anything really tough like an optional challenge dungeon to tackle initially - you can acquire a ton of Magicite that teaches some pretty ridiculous magic. Kefka does not last long when you're throwing Meteor/Ultima in his face repeatedly backed by Life3 protection. It's a pretty good length for what it is though, and you can keep Kefka or anything else decently challenging by running from fights or using Mog and his charm to avoid battles.
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 Post subject: Re: The one (or more) mechanic that ruined a game you loved.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:06 am 


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Re: FFVI

There's a decent rom for GBA called FFVI Restored which restores the colour palette and music from the SNES version.

As for postgame content, the habit of putting superbosses in FF games began with Emerald and Ruby weapons in VII didn't it?
It just wasn't a thing back then afaik, I don't really count warmech.

Although there's kind of a warmech to be found in VI, one of the overworld encounters on dinosaur island is really tough. Brachiosaur.
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 Post subject: Re: The one (or more) mechanic that ruined a game you loved.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:35 am 


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Yeah, but it's pretty much the enemy you grind to prepare for Kefka, not something super powerful. :) I guess the Atma refight is one of the toughest battles you can find outside of the final dungeon?

FF5 had Shienryu and Omega which both are slightly more powerful than the final boss, so that was an interesting addition, but they don't really qualify for "postgame".


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 Post subject: Re: The one (or more) mechanic that ruined a game you loved.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:10 am 


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Oh damn, for some reason I remembered them as being in the GBA ports.
I'd say they qualify as superbosses at least.. so postgame yeah
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 Post subject: Re: The one (or more) mechanic that ruined a game you loved.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:49 pm 


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Omega and Shinryu I would count as postgame content, although Shinryu isn't very tough if you know to bring coral rings and dragon lances in preparation. Most players won't beat either boss until having already completed the game. Omega is quite a bit more powerful than Neo ExDeath.
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 Post subject: Re: The one (or more) mechanic that ruined a game you loved.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:54 am 


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 Post subject: Re: The one (or more) mechanic that ruined a game you loved.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:56 pm 


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Aw, but that's the most fun part of the game :P
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 Post subject: Re: The one (or more) mechanic that ruined a game you loved.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 3:41 pm 


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Ajora wrote:
Omega and Shinryu I would count as postgame content, although Shinryu isn't very tough if you know to bring coral rings and dragon lances in preparation. Most players won't beat either boss until having already completed the game. Omega is quite a bit more powerful than Neo ExDeath.

One of my fav things about the GBA port: the bonus dungeon with a room with a dozen Omegas walking around, guarding Omega Mk2!
Neo Shinryu and very tough super-boss (and lore-appropriate!) Enuo were at the end.

Somehow I managed to beat all of that back in the day... The bonus jobs were broken but fun - IIRC you could actually cheese Exdeath and prevent him from transforming into Neo Exdeath by killing him with the Cannoneer class!
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 Post subject: Re: The one (or more) mechanic that ruined a game you loved.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 3:53 pm 


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trap15 wrote:
Aw, but that's the most fun part of the game :P

i'd like it to be in more traditional/garegga style


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 Post subject: Re: The one (or more) mechanic that ruined a game you loved.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:05 am 


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Nothing stops you from playing it that way ;) Extends would even come at a normal pace I think.
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 Post subject: Re: The one (or more) mechanic that ruined a game you loved.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:38 pm 


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kane wrote:
Ikaruga: There is this mechanic where you need to constantly switch your polarity... (sorry, couldn't resist)

More seriously, Binding of Isaac any version: Curses. All of them. What purpose do these serve other than wasting your precious gaming time in your busy day? They're not even challenging, just super annoying.


LOL as much as I loved Ikaruga I sort of did not enjoy the whole switching and scoring mechanic. This whole mechanic and game design made me realize... Ikaruga was not for me :(


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 Post subject: Re: The one (or more) mechanic that ruined a game you loved.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:30 pm 


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Shelcoof wrote:
kane wrote:
Ikaruga: There is this mechanic where you need to constantly switch your polarity... (sorry, couldn't resist)

More seriously, Binding of Isaac any version: Curses. All of them. What purpose do these serve other than wasting your precious gaming time in your busy day? They're not even challenging, just super annoying.


LOL as much as I loved Ikaruga I sort of did not enjoy the whole switching and scoring mechanic. This whole mechanic and game design made me realize... Ikaruga was not for me :(


I played through Ikaruga but didn't really enjoy my time spent with it. The polarity mechanic just wasn't my cup of tea. I wouldn't say that the polarity mechanic ruined the game, but rather, it was the game. Would be nice to see Radiant Silvergun show up on Steam.
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 Post subject: Re: The one (or more) mechanic that ruined a game you loved.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:51 pm 



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Batman Arkham games and The Riddler.

My God, talk about an unecessary large amount of collectibles in this game just in case you want to do 100% or catch this guy, i really feel like Riddler should have a lot less stuff to find and do in the games because, well, they aren't that fun to grab or do, are really simple and are more busy work than anything else.

Not only that, but they aren't riddles!

Oh no, they're Batman trivia questions for the most part, or trying to allign a question mark, solving some easy puzzles or just driving around the Batmobile which is just bizarre.

I mean, isn't the Riddler known for, i don't know, his riddles or did i miss some Batman stories where he asks Batman to take some photos and grab glowing question marks?

It just felt like his existence was there to justify having collectibles be a part of the setting but it just made him feel pointless, annoying and a waste of potential, i mean, isn't Batman a detective?

Wouldn't it have been better to have The Riddler steal some stuff or hide himself away but give these really hard riddles with clues that the players would have to find along the game to really solve and catch the bastard, it just feels like it would have been more interesting and been more true to the character.


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 Post subject: Re: The one (or more) mechanic that ruined a game you loved.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:01 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: The one (or more) mechanic that ruined a game you loved.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:23 pm 


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Padding shit out in games winds me up. I enjoyed a lot of Red Dead Redemption but damn, the amount of time spent on a horse trying to get to a waypoint. And this was the game of the year edition that gives you the best horse, permanently. Oh hey I need those plants let me just stop and pick... oh mauled to death by a cougar, TRY AGAIN BITCH.

Where it really stung though, was Headhunter. Absolutely loved the game but those overworld bike sections. You literally just ride fast for long enough to rack up enough points to progress, it's entirely pointless and thoroughly tedious.

Just do the game part FFS.

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Batman Arkham games and The Riddler.


I ignored them.... until Arkham Knight, where I hit the most annoying bug. If you do all the non-Riddler side missions before the final main mission, it won't let you trigger the end of the game until you finish off The Riddler. Wander around hoping interrogatable thugs show up. Ugh.


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 Post subject: Re: The one (or more) mechanic that ruined a game you loved.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:22 am 


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Majora's Mask
have only played it for two hours or so and got already lost/didn't get what to do next and that stupid timer breathing down my neck.. Not my idea of a fun Zelda experience :?
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 Post subject: Re: The one (or more) mechanic that ruined a game you loved.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:29 am 


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The Riddler is probably off his game due to being replaced by The Puzzler and Gomez Addams in a Riddler suit in the 60s Batman.


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