Games Done Quick but Skill instead Speed?

[XoPachi]

I was wondering about something...
I like AGDQ and SGDQ, but I noticed that some games and gameplay types get alienated from these kinds of events. So certain niche gamers don't really get a platform to show their stuff and attention can't be brought to certain genres/games. Like you'd never see Bakraid or Ketsui at a GDQ because...they can't be exactly played for speed outside of speed killing bosses, I guess, which isn't that interesting honestly (or even difficult in context of the games' mechanics).

What do you guys think about an event that was half speed runs and half "skill" runs (I know speed runs are all skill, but I can't think of anything else to call it). We'd get cool stuff like 1CC's of shooters, SSS Devil May Cry runs, Pure Platinum Bayonetta runs, and maybe no damage runs in games that reward you for that. Or just different takes on games popular in the speed running scene.
I'm not trying to get something organized or anything, just thought this forum would be the best place to bounce the idea off of. c:

[FinalBaton]

I'm personally WAY more interested in 1 Life Clears, 1 Credit Clears, and self-imposed challenges, than in speedruns! So count me in the camp that'd love that kind of event.

[llaoyllakcuf]

There is 1CC Marathon:

http://1ccmarathon.com/

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEiLh8 ... gLA/videos

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=55463

No idea when/if there's going to be another event though.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Hudson All-Japan Caravan Festival indicated what serves torunament purposes. Are there any Caravan-style romhacks of coin-op shmups? Games Done Quick events may not be torunaments in that sense, but the point is - Caravan runs are done quickly.

[Sumez]

That is pretty much what the arcade superplay expo was.

Of course everything related to that event went completely silent immediately after it was held. Would have loved to see it as a recurring annual event.

viewtopic.php?p=1219566

One downside with 1CC/1LC challenges etc. is that those are much more likely to fail than a speedrun. A speedrun might not go as fast as intended, but since the end result is variable, it's very rare for them to screw up to the point where it's not actually doable. Would have to be a softlock or similar. However, high scoring runs would of course still be viable, and even if all 1CCs aren't given, live attempts at them by a skilled player is still interesting to watch.

[KennyMan666]

I like AGDQ and SGDQ, but I noticed that some games and gameplay types get alienated from these kinds of events. So certain niche gamers don't really get a platform to show their stuff and attention can't be brought to certain genres/games. Like you'd never see Bakraid or Ketsui at a GDQ

This is not actually true though. The GDQs have definitely had some stuff like that, the Tetris showcases have been extremely popular and that's definitely more "skill" than "speed". Some shmups have been considered, I know Aquas submitted Ketsui among others and it made it past at least first cuts some year, even if it didn't actually make it onto the schedule, and there's been a couple of "runs" of other games that went for goals other than speed. And, I mean, people definitely speedrun stuff like high rank stuff, though some of it might not be a good fit for a marathon given that you only have one shot when you're playing live like that and I assume that in a lot of those games, one mistake can easily screw you out of the highest ranking. Especially if you're trying for things like one life clears.

Most of the GDQ stuff will definitely be speedruns, so no argument there, but they're not completely shutting out other kinds of high-level play. But you also do have to consider how realistically possible things are when you only have one attempt and is playing it live - it wouldn't really be interesting (in a marathon setting) to watch someone reset a whole bunch of times in attempts to get the 1LC, or the highest rank, or stuff like that.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

But you also do have to consider how realistically possible things are when you only have one attempt and is playing it live - it wouldn't really be interesting (in a marathon setting) to watch someone reset a whole bunch of times in attempts to get the 1LC, or the highest rank, or stuff like that.

Yeah, deathless clears or high rank clears are very impressive, but if it's the sort of game where you have to essentially restart if you make a serious mistake, that's not really ideal for live streaming for an audience (unless you're just casually doing it on Twitch or something). Single credit clears of arcade games are more realistic to be able to demonstrate in a live setting as opposed to a 1LC, and speedruns looks impressive even if there's a few deaths involved because the audience still sees the rest of the game played at a blazingly fast pace (and can imagine how must faster it'd be without those deaths).

Ideally in a speedrun you'd reset when making a serious mistake but like a 1LC, a live audience doesn't want to watch hundreds of potential restarts for a perfect run attempt, there's an acceptance and understanding that some mistakes will happen live.

[Bananamatic]

I know Aquas submitted Ketsui among others and it made it past at least first cuts some year, even if it didn't actually make it onto the schedule, and there's been a couple of "runs" of other games that went for goals other than speed.

aquas and kevinddr submitted shmups a billion times and it got shot down every single time
also tetris is literally a speedrun

[Durandal]

the ones more likely to get accepted are games where higher skill = higher clear speed, so games like Furi, Alien Soldier, or any beat 'em up

[Obiwanshinobi]

Kuru Kuru Kururin, the first Super Monkey Ball, PS2 Shinobi...

[Jeneki]

There are a few games that could crossover well. For example, I wouldn't mind seeing an In The Hunt run where the player advances as quickly as possible but somehow pulls through. That game seems built from the ground up to punish impatience.

[Sumez]

Most of the GDQ stuff will definitely be speedruns, so no argument there, but they're not completely shutting out other kinds of high-level play.

I'm pretty sure this thread isn't meant as a criticism of GDQ, but simply wishing for an event with a different focus.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Personally, I want to see less fighting game VS tourneys and more VS puzzle game tourneys, or even VS shmup tourneys. There's a lot of non-fighting games with great VS modes just begging for attention. Unfortunately neither genre seems to get much attention compared to traditional fighting games. Long live Street Fighter, I guess. :/

[BIL]

The problem is live fumbles. Which is why I have devised One Coins Live The Ultime Pressure. Players who drop their credit are stripped of their shirts, restrained, then savagely beaten with rattan canes while a topless booth babe jiggles her tits in their face. So even if the whole slate washes out it'll still be good for a laugh.

[Sumez]

Personally, I want to see less fighting game VS tourneys and more VS puzzle game tourneys, or even VS shmup tourneys. There's a lot of non-fighting games with great VS modes just begging for attention. Unfortunately neither genre seems to get much attention compared to traditional fighting games. Long live Street Fighter, I guess. :/

I'm all up for that. Unfortunately, very few games outside of fighters (and whatever that MOBA stuff the kids are playing nowadays is) have a particularly competitive scene. Tetris is the only one that's remotely viable, and even that one is a bit of a niche title in the competitive context.
I'm working on setting up an annual NES Tetris tournament around here, and it's an uphill battle. Been trying to add in TGM, but we've had one talented player of that game ever.

[Immryr]

i'd love it if the multiplayer on catherine becomes popular when this new release with online multiplayer comes out. i think it's a pretty great vs puzzle game.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I've actually been to a local NES Tetris tournament. It's like the only puzzle game that even sees tourneys, mostly because it's ubiquitous and known as a "retro" classic. Frankly it's overrated, and even the NES had other puzzle releases that deserve more attention such as the blisteringly fast paced Palamedes.

TGM's way more fun and playable, but sadly I don't even think we ever even got home ports of the TGM games. :/

Players who drop their credit are stripped of their shirts, restrained, then savagely beaten with rattan canes while a topless booth babe jiggles her tits in their face.

then all the "players" will just be caning fetishists purposefully joining to drop their credits

[llaoyllakcuf]

TGM's way more fun and playable, but sadly I don't even think we ever even got home ports of the TGM games. :/

There's TGM Ace for X360 (Japan exclusive) which is the only console version of TGM.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BPJTLA

[Sumez]

Just to clarify, TGM Ace is based entirely on guideline rotations which allow you to flat out ignore big parts of the puzzle that makes up surviving 20G in TGM. You could argue that it's hardly even a TGM game, which you can still get it for human money. I wouldn't recommend it. It's sad that the only home port we ever got was such a botched version, even though TGM1 is essentially a PS1 game, TGM2 supposedly has a finished, unrelease PS2 port, and TGM3 of course, is a Windows game.

PS: Claiming that Palamedes is better than Tetris is pretty bold. Bolder than I'd allow myself to get behind. Tetris is just such a perfect game.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I never said I thought Palamedes was better than Tetris though. I said the NES version of Tetris is overrated (it's really overhyped as like the only puzzle game most people could name on NES, and I'd much rather play TGM2 or TGM3), and that there were other good puzzle games on the NES with VS play that deserved to get more attention.

It was a laughable porn game but Bubble Bath Babes had a great VS mode I remember. I can't remember if I liked it better than Tetris but of those three NES games, Palamedes was definitely the weakest. Bubble Bath Babes may also have had a non porn equivalent but I have never played it.

[Sumez]

NES Tetris is super good. It has elements to it that I think makes it aggrevating to play, and going for some challenges (ie. Level 19 maxout, PAL highscore, three maxouts in a row) are very reliant on luck, but it is those same elements that also makes it insanely competitive with a super high skill ceiling. Mastering DAS control at level 19 is a completely different game to any other version of Tetris, that really meshes well with the basic puzzle, not unlike TGM's 20G stacking.

I too prefer TGM, but I can understand people who get full into NES Tetris. If nostalgia was the only factor speaking, everyone would be competing in Game Boy Tetris, but everyone agrees that one sucks.

[XoPachi]

I like AGDQ and SGDQ, but I noticed that some games and gameplay types get alienated from these kinds of events. So certain niche gamers don't really get a platform to show their stuff and attention can't be brought to certain genres/games. Like you'd never see Bakraid or Ketsui at a GDQ

This is not actually true though. The GDQs have definitely had some stuff like that, the Tetris showcases have been extremely popular and that's definitely more "skill" than "speed".

Tetris is really the only one that I've seen because it's like someone here alluded to; everyone knows it. It's not just a video game but rather a part of pop culture almost to the degree of Mickey Mouse. Everyone knows not just the name and Korobeiniki, but the exact rules of Tetris. Even if they've never done a simple 40 line sprint in their lives they know exactly how it plays. And that's why it's easily accepted in and popular at GDQ. The games I listed aren't as privileged.

I'm not trying to say GDQ needs to force it in or that it's lesser of an event for not doing so, so pardon my OP word choice. I only mentioned it because it's the most popular event like this and I just thought it would be neat to see skillful, non speed focused play there.

[cj iwakura]

I enjoy challenges like this, but the problem is they tend to take longer, and things like SGDQ thrive on speed.

Personally I love doing low level RPG challenges, like beating super bosses at sub-optimal levels(hi Elizabeth).