Sonic Mania Plus announced. Physical release, Mighty & Ray!

[Despatche]

That's understandable to the extent of that being the point. Having the custom character system be a separate gametype is actually fairly innovative. Forces is (slightly) better than Generations. This was the entire point of the game, a Generations sequel.

2D Sonic was always a shaky concept and took a sharp turn south with Sonic 2. They should have kept working on the Sonic 1/CD concept. I don't even understand how people compared Sonic 1 to Super Mario World so directly, World is clearly so far beyond anything the MD Sonics offer, and I don't even like World. It also doesn't make sense that this half-baked idea took over the planet in the way it did. Something went very wrong.

[Sumez]

Except Super Mario World has great (but traditional?) level design, while Sonic 1, though an enjoyable game, is pretty damn wonky.
It makes no sense to even compare the two games. They only got compared because both were mascot "killer apps".

[null1024]

That's understandable to the extent of that being the point. Having the custom character system be a separate gametype is actually fairly innovative. Forces is (slightly) better than Generations. This was the entire point of the game, a Generations sequel.

2D Sonic was always a shaky concept and took a sharp turn south with Sonic 2. They should have kept working on the Sonic 1/CD concept. I don't even understand how people compared Sonic 1 to Super Mario World so directly, World is clearly so far beyond anything the MD Sonics offer, and I don't even like World. It also doesn't make sense that this half-baked idea took over the planet in the way it did. Something went very wrong.

I can't agree with any word of this post, beyond that SMW is better than S1 and S2 [and I'm mostly saying that because of the amount of stuff World has in it, rather than the actual level design].

Forces has insanely low-quality stage design no matter who you're playing as. It's not unplayably terrible, but the levels are all relatively short and boring. Classic Sonic somehow handles worse than in Generations. The game is a downgrade in all ways, with worse control, worse visuals, worse stages, and worse music. There was no reason for it to be worse either, people were entirely willing to wait, the game feels unfinished. Sega rushed it out the door for zero reason.
really though, Sega's got a bad issue with rushing shit out, even Mania was visibly rushed out the door on release
'06 happened because of Sega's awful habit of rushing Sonic games out, and they still haven't learned.

Also, Sonic 2, at least up until after Hill Top, has fairly solid level design. It's not perfect, and I'd say it's definitely too easy overall, but it ups the pace from S1 while still keeping player agency in the mix. The more I play Hill Top, the more I think it's a very well designed level, and I used to think it was kinda junk when I was younger.
then S3&K is a rock solid game with a handful of stages that are worse than the rest [CNZ2, MGZ1, SZ2... and I think that's it, maybe DEZ2 and the only bit of that I really dislike is the boss], levels are huge, the graphics are more impressive, the music is still good, there's a greater focus on actual platforming again
Mania takes a bit of middle ground between big 3&K style stages with a slight lean towards the streamlined Sonic 2 style levels.

S1 and CD are a mess in many ways.
Sonic 1's stage design is rough. GHZ is great as a tutorial... except that the rest of the game barely takes anything from it. Marble is a so-so to bad level, which would be better served with more platforming and less waiting and pushing and the lot. Spring Yard is pretty good, with some mildly off-putting bits [those rooms with the spike balls are kinda annoying since there's often no reasonable way to not get hit by them, especially since you're going to be running into them at full tilt, and they're often preceded by a slope, also those elevator block rooms annoy me more and more every time I play S1]. Labyrinth would be obnoxious even without water, it's got more spikes and shit than fucking Scrap Brain. With the water, it's extremely aggravating. Not from the drowning risk [there's a ton of air in the level anyway], but from the water physics making it hard to react to anything at all.
Star Light is a nice stage. A bit easy, but it's a breather before the last stage.
I really like Scrap Brain, apart from "literally Labyrinth again" act 4. There are traps everywhere and electricity and conveyor belts and the lot, but it all feels like it's paced well. Lots of stuff based on fine movement or good jump timing, rather than Labyrinth's slow movement or Marble's waiting for shit.

Sonic CD's stage design slows Sonic down every couple of seconds. It is remarkably difficult to keep speed for any real amount of time in CD, beyond specific points designed just to facilitate time travel. This is deliberate, and it sucks, killing any sense of pacing.
It's got nicer controls than the rest of the Genesis games [no roll-jump control lock is actually a godsend, something no main 2D Sonic game would change until Mania]. Cool graphics, cool music, and vaguely okay at best level design.
Stardust Speedway is actually one of the worst stages I've encountered -- loads of people like to say Wacky Workbench, but that stage doesn't get in your way beyond a few spots where you might get bounced into the rafters repeatedly and then it takes a while to get back down. If you just want it over with, it's not too difficult to just relax a bit and keep from getting launched.
but Stardust Speedway is a maze of tubes and pipes and shit with no real rhyme or reason

The Sonic series gets compared to SMW because damn near nothing else on the Genesis released in 1991 looks or sounds quite as good as Sonic 1 does. It's a real technical marvel.
Seriously, it's quite an impressive game. It's got big stages that scroll in all directions and big sprites, a catchy, poppy soundtrack, and the level design is a good deal more intricate than a lot of other platformers available at the time, with loads of slopes and big loops [only in two stages though] and the lot. The movement is very impressive, Sonic smoothly transitions from walking on flat ground to running up walls and upside down, he jumps differently based on the terrain, he can gain speed by landing on slopes, the works. The graphics are really colorful and have really nice shading on them.
There really wasn't anything else like it. I went and checked, all the Genesis games I can think of that look better than S1 were released in 92 or later. It's a whole package.

In contrast, SMW is the fourth release in a series and a polished example of how Nintendo's been able to refine their level design over the years, while S1's level design and scope reflect the fact that it was just the first game in the series, and the stage design in it shows stems right from that fact, something which S2 and 3&K make strides to remedy.

[mycophobia]

sonic 2 and sonic 3&K are masterpieces imo....smw is best 2d mario too.

[Squire Grooktook]

People compare Mario and Sonic because -despite being very different - they were direct competitors who were historically compared to and contrasted with eachother.

I compare Mario and Sonic because I find some bitter irony in the fact that blazing through Mario stages at full speed is a lot more fun and exhilarating than constantly running into walls and enemies in Sonic because you can't see shit.

[BrianC]

smw is best 2d mario too.

No, SMB2J is the best 2d Mario 2.

[evil_ash_xero]

I wonder if I can sell a sealed copy of that big monster box, that had no game in it...version of Sonic Mania? It has that lovely statue in it.