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 Post subject: Re: Aka & Blue Type-R (Exa Arcade 2018)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:19 am 


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charlie chong wrote:
:lol: you are a bit of a weirdo xyga.do others opinions really upset you that much that you want them to leave a forum because they don't agree with you?? can you not worry about something important instead. i don't want anyone to leave the forum because they can afford this game and have known people like superpang since 2003 on forums.he was one of the first people apart from myself that i ever knew online who really loved cave games and i have no hatred towards him. you are the one who always seems to have nazi style hatred towards people
its quite funny that the people who want the game to get to the most forum users are being told they are shitting on the forum :lol: cave allready went the way of the dodo once,do you want it to happen again.. it will be the arcade operators who end up pirating this system not forum members :idea:

You're either an idiot or trolling here. In case you missed it he's the one who told me to leave first, great bias from the boot charlie! *clapping hands*

Banana's a blockhead who's been shitting on everything and everyone in this community since he got good at a handful of shmups, he was much cooler before (a mistake to praise him, some people when they achieve something gain confidence and reveal their shit personality), now he's Banana the would-be star of the genre on the interwest, he hilariously thinks he will achieve that by crashing farm threads dropping "this is shit" "this too" but he's only showing that he actually has no interest in shmups as a whole and none for the community either, his real deal is that he's a popularity whore, he wants people to acknowledge his performance, he wants competition fame and he can't live with apparently no one here on the farm giving a fuck about his obsession or what he believes, so he's swagging around shmuppa fuccboi style because being a dick is cool. Think he could be satisfied getting attention from the /shmupg/ kiddy playground, twatter and whatever circlejerk discussion server he's at? nope he still visits here whenever he needs to take a dump.

Fuck charlie HE is the fucking game nazi, if you wouldn't follow him on the way of the dick you'd see I'm with the positive ones here, not with the haters and naysayers, this community still matters to me and it's people with much shittier and fouler personnality who've been ruining it, not me, I'm just tired and pissed off because of them, this place would be a little haven if it wasn't for preachers in politics/ideologues and game theory/competition nazis smearing shit all over it.
And why the fuck do you mention Superpang? what's the relation to anything I've posted? I haven't mentioned him nor talked to him a single time in my life (afaik)
OBVIOUSLY you haven't read much nor gave a single thought to people's arguments, like banana you just post whatever your feel like no one else's around, you're mostly repeating "y u no give everyone game" hurr durr. That attitude is several steps beyond disagreeing with people,. Let me ask; if it's not important to you, why do you spam that?
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 Post subject: Re: Aka & Blue Type-R (Exa Arcade 2018)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:55 am 


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maybe it's time to nuke forums
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 Post subject: Re: Aka & Blue Type-R (Exa Arcade 2018)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:03 am 


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chum wrote:
maybe it's time to nuke forums


better nuke discord, cant navigate in those endless chats where everyone discussing dozen themes at once and you should scroll (unless you know what you expect to search) back hundreds of pages to get info that would be 2% of that chat.
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 Post subject: Re: Aka & Blue Type-R (Exa Arcade 2018)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:09 am 


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Just nuke shmups, gotta start your nuclear tests in a desert wasteland like everyone else.
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 Post subject: Re: Aka & Blue Type-R (Exa Arcade 2018)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:13 am 


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Or maybe instead people who no longer have any chemistry with a community forum, or only visit to post toxic off-topic shit should leave?

Balkanization in little groups over private discussion servers is already well advanced anyway, I just don't understand why some insist on coming back here periodically with only rejection and contempt to give to those who want to stay.
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 Post subject: Re: Aka & Blue Type-R (Exa Arcade 2018)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:17 am 


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chum wrote:
maybe it's time to nuke forums


I have a better suggestion: How about growing up?

And another one: How about splitting this topic at least twice.
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 Post subject: Re: Aka & Blue Type-R (Exa Arcade 2018)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:22 am 


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Shepardus wrote:
Just nuke shmups, gotta start your nuclear tests in a desert wasteland like everyone else.


good thing double spoiler isnt a shmup, it's a phmup so it gets spared

you know what that means... stop fighting and come join the ds revolution

Xyga wrote:
Or maybe instead people who no longer have any chemistry with a community forum, or only visit to post toxic off-topic shit should leave?


It's shmups forum, if u want to talk shmups on a forum this is the place to go, even if u don't fit in u can still speak ur mind.
dialogue means both to learn and to teach
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 Post subject: Re: Aka & Blue Type-R (Exa Arcade 2018)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:57 am 


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Muchi Muchi Spork wrote:
It's never going away, I know how the world works. It breaks the even playing field and that's what irks me, that's all I was wanting wanting to say.


While we're opening worm-cans, what are your feelings about save states? :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: Aka & Blue Type-R (Exa Arcade 2018)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:58 am 


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chum wrote:
It's shmups forum, if u want to talk shmups on a forum this is the place to go, even if u don't fit in u can still speak ur mind.
dialogue means both to learn and to teach

Right. Although with banana for a while it's rather been only single-sided statements packed with contempt and ridiculous misconception and prejudice about the very people of this community, their interest, projects, relation to the hobby etc. It's rather him who can't live with others and refuses to hear anyone and learn whatever.
Do I have to be cool with him? give me a reason.
It's shmups forums yes, not 4chan, or a public toilet.

EDIT: should I remind you I vaguely made fun of one of your posts once and you literally exploded on me so you're not really into a position of teaching me forums ethics.
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Last edited by Xyga on Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Aka & Blue Type-R (Exa Arcade 2018)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:59 am 


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emphatic wrote:
Muchi Muchi Spork wrote:
It's never going away, I know how the world works. It breaks the even playing field and that's what irks me, that's all I was wanting wanting to say.


While we're opening worm-cans, what are your feelings about save states? :lol:

Not really the same thing, considering that one is something used while practicing and the other is something you use during an actual run that may be submitted to a leaderboard.
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 Post subject: Re: Aka & Blue Type-R (Exa Arcade 2018)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:00 am 


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Shepardus wrote:
Not really the same thing, considering that one is something used while practicing and the other is something you use during an actual run that may be submitted to a leaderboard.


Not the same thing, sure, but unless all players have access to it, it's not really fair, is it? My opinion? It would be better really if PCB scores would be kept separate from MAME/port scores, as it does open up possibilities not available for players only playing the PCB. This is why I will always have more respect for MrMonkeyMan's Ketsui PCB scores for example, than someone who's perfected their runs using save states. To me, it's the same to as buying a painting rather than buying a print. The painting is worth more, as more time and effort went into it. A PCB is worth more than a computer emulating that PCB.
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 Post subject: Re: Aka & Blue Type-R (Exa Arcade 2018)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:12 am 


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Xyga wrote:
EDIT: should I remind you I vaguely made fun of one of your posts once and you literally exploded on me so you're not really into a position of teaching me forums ethics.


this never happened and this is what makes you and others that completely reject reality, out of personal pride or some grand delusions like Despatche etc such impossible people to talk to.

you need to take a step back and actually read what is going on. you want to police what people are and aren't allowed to talk about, and that was what happened in that other thread back then as well. two well through out posts by me and perikles and here's how you sum it up:

Quote:
"blah blah blah too much Cave again" it's so damn hipster it's cringey


complete with hammering in the idea that this is not a subject that is allowed. that it must be ridiculed, that it makes people a hipster to question the amount of CAVE on the list.

that is what happened.

when you "made fun of me", i didn't "explode".

this is what i wrote:
Spoiler: show
chum wrote:
qmish wrote:
chum,
Situation might be that people really do play all those games


We must have a different idea of what playing "all those games" entails because no. This isn't even debatable in any sense.

Xyga wrote:
@Chum, hey there's at least 10 Touhou games in your list... :lol:


Did you have a point to make...? I never said people shouldn't put the games they think are best on their list (which is what I did)

Quote:
Also people don't be hipsters, so many Cave games are awesome the might of their library won't be defeated until a new dev crushes that record (likely not happening this century).


Yeah, I'm sure Perikles is just a damn hipster... do you really think you should take such a silly route to defend CAVE who has 1/3 of the game represented...? FWIW I'm a CAVE fan easily, they made some of the best games ever in any genre. I'm just not a mindless fanboy which you are trying awfully hard to come across as right now.

Quote:
I mean 14 years straight topping the votes isn't because people don't know/try anything else


I hope noone's saying people aren't trying "anything" else. But compared to exhausting CAVE's library how many do you think exhausts Taito's, Konami's, etc?

Quote:
it's because Cave have crushed the 'competition' with a huge number of quality/top-tier titles, other devs can't beat that, this is why the Top 25 always smells of Cave (a damp cave!)


Understandable opinion but not everyone agrees that CAVE is better than everyone else by such an enormous amount. 18 games compared to others who have at most 4 represented. Some people don't even think CAVE is the best dev to begin with *gasp* hipters. I can't agree that history turned out the way it did because CAVE just happened to be that much better, either, that's really shortsighted, the genre in general just went out of style so CAVE that catered to hardcore players managed to survive. there's a lot more to shmups than doing things the CAVE way and preferring other kinds of shmups is still valid.
[/quote]
bunch of

that is not an explosion.

the fact that you bring this up all of a sudden out of nowhere in this discussion just goes to show yet again what kind of nasty person you are. you police what people are allowed to talk about, and demand that everyone who says things you don't like to hear should leave. you beat down others by rewriting history in order to convince yourself that you are always the good guy.

anyone who reads this thread can see plain as day who the good and bad guy is here. hint: the bad guy is the guy telling others to leave the forum.
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 Post subject: Re: Aka & Blue Type-R (Exa Arcade 2018)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:27 am 


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Quote:
We must have a different idea of what playing "all those games" entails because no. This isn't even debatable in any sense.


The point was that people playing them doesnt mean it magically being loved more than those games people have put in top. Otherwise it's like "you havent played jet n guns if you dont put it in top5" (nevermind euroshmup example for joke) agitation, implying that games are so good that people who play them really consider them favorites and best and what not.

It's like with doujin games on vote threads? Many have fav doujins, but they cant put it before so many arcade ones they love more, so they usually stay at bottom of lists or honorable mentions.
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 Post subject: Re: Aka & Blue Type-R (Exa Arcade 2018)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:36 am 


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emphatic wrote:
Shepardus wrote:
Not really the same thing, considering that one is something used while practicing and the other is something you use during an actual run that may be submitted to a leaderboard.


Not the same thing, sure, but unless all players have access to it, it's not really fair, is it? My opinion? It would be better really if PCB scores would be kept separate from MAME/port scores, as it does open up possibilities not available for players only playing the PCB. This is why I will always have more respect for MrMonkeyMan's Ketsui PCB scores for example, than someone who's perfected their runs using save states. To me, it's the same to as buying a painting rather than buying a print. The painting is worth more, as more time and effort went into it. A PCB is worth more than a computer emulating that PCB.

Playing on a PCB doesn't mean you can't fire up MAME and practice with savestates like anyone else - that's a self-imposed restriction, not something you don't have access to (which makes it a bit different from the special practice board that Muchi Muchi Spork mentioned; by the way, I think that was Ketsui and not DOJ). Mad respect to MrMonkeyMan, of course, and I don't mean to downplay how impressive his Ketsui plays were and still are, but IMO the inexorable trend towards more options shouldn't cause a leaderboard split any more than Olympic records should be reset every time there's an advance in sports medicine. If you can't or don't want to use savestates that's fine and all and the accomplishments you achieve deserve recognition, I just don't think splitting leaderboards is the right way to do that, or that leaderboards need to reflect factors like that. I think of it more like a musician practicing a piece of music, where practicing solely by starting from the beginning of the piece every time is just bad form.

qmish wrote:
chum wrote:
maybe it's time to nuke forums


better nuke discord, cant navigate in those endless chats where everyone discussing dozen themes at once and you should scroll (unless you know what you expect to search) back hundreds of pages to get info that would be 2% of that chat.

This thread has so many topics going on at once it may as well be a Discord chat at this point.
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 Post subject: Re: Aka & Blue Type-R (Exa Arcade 2018)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:39 am 


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It's not 3 years long though, and you can make link to separate posts. Discord chat would me more like merging all threads from each subsection of this forum. "Shmup chat thread, hiscores thread, strategy thread". All 1200+ pages.

Quote:
MAME


Also doesnt mean you have to use savestates.
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 Post subject: Re: Aka & Blue Type-R (Exa Arcade 2018)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:45 am 


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qmish wrote:
Quote:
We must have a different idea of what playing "all those games" entails because no. This isn't even debatable in any sense.


The point was that people playing them doesnt mean it magically being loved more than those games people have put in top. Otherwise it's like "you havent played jet n guns if you dont put it in top5" (nevermind euroshmup example for joke) agitation, implying that games are so good that people who play them really consider them favorites and best and what not.

It's like with doujin games on vote threads? Many have fav doujins, but they cant put it before so many arcade ones they love more, so they usually stay at bottom of lists or honorable mentions.


to be honest I don't really follow.

I took what you said in that other thread to mean that people really do play all those games that get neglected, but that they still put cave/raizing/treasure at top. was that a misunderstanding? i mean that's what you said,
qmish wrote:
chum,

Situation might be that people really do play all those games, yet still put Cave or Raizing or Treasure in top...


that's obviously not right, and what you're now saying your point was is hard to understand so can you make yourself clear
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 Post subject: Re: Aka & Blue Type-R (Exa Arcade 2018)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:22 am 


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chum wrote:
hint: the bad guy is the guy telling others to leave the forum.


Bananamatic wrote:
Xyga wrote:
'Fucking hate this shit era.

then leave lol


I like this topic. It shows the love we have for our shared hobby.
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Last edited by Plasmo on Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Aka & Blue Type-R (Exa Arcade 2018)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:22 am 


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Feel free to discuss any aspects related to the platform on the following thread.


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 Post subject: Re: Aka & Blue Type-R (Exa Arcade 2018)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:24 am 


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Just here to remind everyone that if you don't get your clears/hi scores at sea level they're unacceptable unless the game was designed for another specific altitude.

emphatic wrote:
Not the same thing, sure, but unless all players have access to it, it's not really fair, is it? My opinion? It would be better really if PCB scores would be kept separate from MAME/port scores, as it does open up possibilities not available for players only playing the PCB. This is why I will always have more respect for MrMonkeyMan's Ketsui PCB scores for example, than someone who's perfected their runs using save states. To me, it's the same to as buying a painting rather than buying a print. The painting is worth more, as more time and effort went into it.


MrMonkeyMan uses MAME and even stated so in a previous post. Regardless if anyone reaches 428 mil score on PCB, Pazzy is simply the better player. Unless there is a valid enough reason to split PCB and MAME scores due to poor emulation or whatever, splitting them is little more than creating a special PCB only club. As for the painting analogy, you have a point about time (that doesn't really matter to most people on the forum), but to imply that someone like Pazzy put in less effort to achieve their score is just bad manners.

emphatic wrote:
A PCB is worth more than a computer emulating that PCB.


Only in $$$$, my friend.
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 Post subject: Re: Aka & Blue Type-R (Exa Arcade 2018)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:15 pm 


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chum wrote:
Xyga wrote:
EDIT: should I remind you I vaguely made fun of one of your posts once and you literally exploded on me so you're not really into a position of teaching me forums ethics.


this never happened and this is what makes you and others that completely reject reality, out of personal pride or some grand delusions like Despatche etc such impossible people to talk to.

you need to take a step back and actually read what is going on. you want to police what people are and aren't allowed to talk about, and that was what happened in that other thread back then as well. two well through out posts by me and perikles and here's how you sum it up:

Quote:
"blah blah blah too much Cave again" it's so damn hipster it's cringey


complete with hammering in the idea that this is not a subject that is allowed. that it must be ridiculed, that it makes people a hipster to question the amount of CAVE on the list.

that is what happened.

when you "made fun of me", i didn't "explode".

this is what i wrote:
Spoiler: show
chum wrote:
qmish wrote:
chum,
Situation might be that people really do play all those games


We must have a different idea of what playing "all those games" entails because no. This isn't even debatable in any sense.

Xyga wrote:
@Chum, hey there's at least 10 Touhou games in your list... :lol:


Did you have a point to make...? I never said people shouldn't put the games they think are best on their list (which is what I did)

Quote:
Also people don't be hipsters, so many Cave games are awesome the might of their library won't be defeated until a new dev crushes that record (likely not happening this century).


Yeah, I'm sure Perikles is just a damn hipster... do you really think you should take such a silly route to defend CAVE who has 1/3 of the game represented...? FWIW I'm a CAVE fan easily, they made some of the best games ever in any genre. I'm just not a mindless fanboy which you are trying awfully hard to come across as right now.

Quote:
I mean 14 years straight topping the votes isn't because people don't know/try anything else


I hope noone's saying people aren't trying "anything" else. But compared to exhausting CAVE's library how many do you think exhausts Taito's, Konami's, etc?

Quote:
it's because Cave have crushed the 'competition' with a huge number of quality/top-tier titles, other devs can't beat that, this is why the Top 25 always smells of Cave (a damp cave!)


Understandable opinion but not everyone agrees that CAVE is better than everyone else by such an enormous amount. 18 games compared to others who have at most 4 represented. Some people don't even think CAVE is the best dev to begin with *gasp* hipters. I can't agree that history turned out the way it did because CAVE just happened to be that much better, either, that's really shortsighted, the genre in general just went out of style so CAVE that catered to hardcore players managed to survive. there's a lot more to shmups than doing things the CAVE way and preferring other kinds of shmups is still valid.
bunch of

that is not an explosion.

the fact that you bring this up all of a sudden out of nowhere in this discussion just goes to show yet again what kind of nasty person you are. you police what people are allowed to talk about, and demand that everyone who says things you don't like to hear should leave. you beat down others by rewriting history in order to convince yourself that you are always the good guy.


Fantastic load of hypocritical bullshit from some oversensitive guy who couldn't take views critic of firmly installed prejudice against a lot of the forums members. Typical of the usual mid-late-wave generation of hobby community members hating the older ones on about every possible level out of made up crap on them, their experience, their habits, opinions, what they like, what they play etc. Guess who's policing the others the most with that crap? Who's nastier?
For those who value facts over scripted quoting here's the actual thread: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=59703

chum wrote:
anyone who reads this thread

Anyone who reads this very thread and the quoted can actually read, you don't obviously or only with blinders.

chum wrote:
can see plain as day who the good and bad guy is here.

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chum wrote:
hint: the bad guy is the guy telling others to leave the forum.

Not nice calling banana a bad guy. :|

Square_Air wrote:
Just here to remind everyone that if you don't get your clears/hi scores at sea level they're unacceptable unless the game was designed for another specific altitude.

Calibrated with GPS location, time and weather conditions for actual validity.
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 Post subject: Re: Aka & Blue Type-R (Exa Arcade 2018)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:18 pm 


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emphatic wrote:
Shepardus wrote:
Not really the same thing, considering that one is something used while practicing and the other is something you use during an actual run that may be submitted to a leaderboard.


Not the same thing, sure, but unless all players have access to it, it's not really fair, is it? My opinion? It would be better really if PCB scores would be kept separate from MAME/port scores, as it does open up possibilities not available for players only playing the PCB. This is why I will always have more respect for MrMonkeyMan's Ketsui PCB scores for example, than someone who's perfected their runs using save states. To me, it's the same to as buying a painting rather than buying a print. The painting is worth more, as more time and effort went into it. A PCB is worth more than a computer emulating that PCB.

Solely because of a difference in practicing methods and inequal availability of said methods? Should then a distinction also be made between PCB scores and scores achieved in certified arcade halls? It's not as if players in the arcade halls have the leisure of free play as PCB owners do either.
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Xyga wrote:
chum wrote:
the thing is that we actually go way back and have known each other on multiple websites, first clashing in a Naruto forum.

Liar. I've known you only from latexmachomen.com and pantysniffers.org forums.


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 Post subject: Re: Aka & Blue Type-R (Exa Arcade 2018)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:20 pm 


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emphatic wrote:
A PCB is worth more than a computer emulating that PCB.


Well, it certainly seems to me that the PCB and 4:3 15khz monitor era is coming to an end, if not over already.

How do you feel about AC hardware going PC based?
Will you say a game made by one of your favorite devs has less value simply because it's no longer on a dedicated board, or worse, on a home PC with the exact same spec, or better?

Just trying to see where you logic lies with this statement, given my last "percieved value" post..
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 Post subject: Re: Aka & Blue Type-R (Exa Arcade 2018)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:20 pm 


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why do you think I'm siding with Banana anyways?

and why would I hate older members???

just nuke this dumbshit forum for good. even discord is better than this bullshit
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 Post subject: Re: Aka & Blue Type-R (Exa Arcade 2018)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:26 pm 


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Location: JP
This thread is becoming REEEEEtastic.
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 Post subject: Re: Aka & Blue Type-R (Exa Arcade 2018)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:28 pm 


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EVIL!
allow me to reiterate;
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 Post subject: Re: Aka & Blue Type-R (Exa Arcade 2018)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:33 pm 


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Think this thread needs some shmup-flavored circles of hell.

1. Shitpost purgatory
2. Score worshippers
3. PCB completionists
4. Cellophane fetishists
5. Competition autists
6. Reimu's armpit enthusiasts
7. Cave contrarians, Raizing rank haters
8. Doujin shunners
9. Throne of the banned


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 Post subject: Re: Aka & Blue Type-R (Exa Arcade 2018)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:36 pm 


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What's going on at nuke'em farm?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfZdaLGiB4U
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have tyou ever played dodponpatchi


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 Post subject: Re: Aka & Blue Type-R (Exa Arcade 2018)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:53 pm 


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Posts: 602
Location: Sweden
Xyga Avenger :wink:
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 Post subject: Re: Aka & Blue Type-R (Exa Arcade 2018)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:55 pm 


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Posts: 7414
Location: Alingsås, Sweden
Square_Air wrote:
Just here to remind everyone that if you don't get your clears/hi scores at sea level they're unacceptable unless the game was designed for another specific altitude.


:D
Square_Air wrote:
emphatic wrote:
This is why I will always have more respect for MrMonkeyMan's Ketsui PCB scores


MrMonkeyMan uses MAME and even stated so in a previous post. Regardless if anyone reaches 428 mil score on PCB, Pazzy is simply the better player. Unless there is a valid enough reason to split PCB and MAME scores due to poor emulation or whatever, splitting them is little more than creating a special PCB only club. As for the painting analogy, you have a point about time (that doesn't really matter to most people on the forum), but to imply that someone like Pazzy put in less effort to achieve their score is just bad manners.


I thought I was clear about admiring his PCB scores (meaning the ones that he got long before the game was emulated), but I see now how it could be misinterpreted. He's increased them a good deal since started playing the 360 port/MAME, but compare his PCB runs to all the MAME players who used save states and very quickly looped or got 2-ALL clears of the game, I think it's pretty obvious it's not playing by the same rules. Field painting with oil or at home by numbers, work as an analogy? True, I don't care if most people think it's silly, but I respect and recognize the few who do appreciate the pure arcade experience. I guess it's what I grew up with. Thanks for the link to Pazzy's run, I will have a look. There used to be a Ketsui PCB owners club actually, see my signature.


Square_Air wrote:
emphatic wrote:
A PCB is worth more than a computer emulating that PCB.


Only in $$$$, my friend.


Yes, just like true diamonds and industrial ones are equally special.
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 Post subject: Re: Aka & Blue Type-R (Exa Arcade 2018)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:59 pm 


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PCB itself is computer. Just not a "personal". Same for consoles, too.

#stopsplittingapart
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