Shmups: PCB vs PC port vs Emulation?

[Shou]

Can you provide example (based on real numbers and including all stuff to keep in mind like revenue or what not) of how arcade title sells, too, like you did with steam/whatever sale?

As for "pc/console publishers don't even try" - was that a real when Yoko Taro said he wanted to make a shmup but publishers said nope so he implemented bullets into nier automata boss fights?

- selling 1000 games $20
VS.
- selling 1000 games $500

The thing is, out of those 1000 who buy shmup for $20 or $60, around 50 people would buy it for $500 (be it collectors, older fans, rich hipsters or else)

Can't provide exact numbers for EXA as it is confidential.

Some rough numbers:
SDOJ Retail $1800
CV1000 PCB, Packaging, Art Set = ~$400
Net $1400

$1400 * 350 pcs sold = $490,000

This doesn't take into account all of the middlemen in Japan that take a cut, cost of a 1 year warranty in Japan nor development.

[charlie chong]

i'm not hating on peoples business models and shou has done far more to preserve these types of games and arcade culture than anyone else i know. its just seems silly making shoot em up games that are not actually going to be able to be played by shooter fans.there are more western fans than used to be in the past so it sort of doesn't make sense why they are doing so bad now compared to the old days. has the japanese market completely dropped off now or something??

[Xyga]

There is a misunderstanding here. Games are not exclusive, certain content is. In some cases, we will be supporting the developers with console and PC ports.

[Jidad]

If he wants them too last longer, he can just stop using save state practice and only do full runs. That should keep him busy.

Why is there such clear passive aggressive disdain for those members of the community who are actually good? shouldn't the best be aspired to and venerated as the standard? Do you tell musicians it only counts if they play a piece start to finish and never practice sections? Furthermore why is it always the older members of the scene who despite having cabinets and all the wonders of an arcade within their own residence that are complete shit players who seem more into attaching consumer objects to their portrayed image than ever indulging in the quest of self improvement through practice and a real appreciation of a games actual content as in its mechanics/challenge/function rather than it's aesthetic qualities?

buzzword soup

Again i get that you're another old talentless spastic who's bitter at those who actually get good at things and don't need to fill the weekly void with stuff n shit consumerism but seriously it's a shit dead model that has no future outside of luck surfing some gay retro revival for wealthy old fucks sporting man child twatoos and costa latte friendly gunt holders.

[zak]

This thread is poison

We seem to have one generalisation fighting another.

[z0mbie90]

If he wants them too last longer, he can just stop using save state practice and only do full runs. That should keep him busy.

Why is there such clear passive aggressive disdain for those members of the community who are actually good? shouldn't the best be aspired to and venerated as the standard? Do you tell musicians it only counts if they play a piece start to finish and never practice sections? Furthermore why is it always the older members of the scene who despite having cabinets and all the wonders of an arcade within their own residence that are complete shit players who seem more into attaching consumer objects to their portrayed image than ever indulging in the quest of self improvement through practice and a real appreciation of a games actual content as in its mechanics/challenge/function rather than it's aesthetic qualities?

buzzword soup

Again i get that you're another old talentless spastic who's bitter at those who actually get good at things and don't need to fill the weekly void with stuff n shit consumerism but seriously it's a shit dead model that has no future outside of luck surfing some gay retro revival for wealthy old fucks sporting man child twatoos and costa latte friendly gunt holders.

With 2 post you are obvious here just to be an asshole. What is the point?

I hope this didn't get started with me being disappointed about porting the game seems grim. I have no problem with this being arcade exclusive, there are other games I can play and hopefully maybe I get lucky and get a chance to play the game on a cab Let's just hype the game and stop all this unnecessary bitching.

[Plasmo]

If he wants them too last longer, he can just stop using save state practice and only do full runs. That should keep him busy.

Why is there such clear passive aggressive disdain for those members of the community who are actually good? shouldn't the best be aspired to and venerated as the standard? Do you tell musicians it only counts if they play a piece start to finish and never practice sections? Furthermore why is it always the older members of the scene who despite having cabinets and all the wonders of an arcade within their own residence that are complete shit players who seem more into attaching consumer objects to their portrayed image than ever indulging in the quest of self improvement through practice and a real appreciation of a games actual content as in its mechanics/challenge/function rather than it's aesthetic qualities?

buzzword soup

Again i get that you're another old talentless spastic who's bitter at those who actually get good at things and don't need to fill the weekly void with stuff n shit consumerism but seriously it's a shit dead model that has no future outside of luck surfing some gay retro revival for wealthy old fucks sporting man child twatoos and costa latte friendly gunt holders.

Great introduction to the forum, kid. Now please leave again.

[Xyga]

By the language and absurdity it must be one of the sociopaths from 4chan /shmupgays/

Just ignore.

[spmbx]

Yeah apart from the language itself most of the last few pages would belong in some general topic. Maybe even an exa topic, but it has little to do with aka&blue

[NTSC-J]

This thread is poison

It's been so long since we've heard the announcement of a new arcade shmup, I think folks have forgotten that it's always immediately followed by people lamenting the news. If there's a group of "enthusiasts" more put-upon and aggrieved by their own hobby, I haven't found it.

[pixelcorps]

Can you provide example (based on real numbers and including all stuff to keep in mind like revenue or what not) of how arcade title sells, too, like you did with steam/whatever sale?

As for "pc/console publishers don't even try" - was that a real when Yoko Taro said he wanted to make a shmup but publishers said nope so he implemented bullets into nier automata boss fights?

- selling 1000 games $20
VS.
- selling 1000 games $500

The thing is, out of those 1000 who buy shmup for $20 or $60, around 50 people would buy it for $500 (be it collectors, older fans, rich hipsters or else)

Can't provide exact numbers for EXA as it is confidential.

Some rough numbers:
SDOJ Retail $1800
CV1000 PCB, Packaging, Art Set = ~$400
Net $1400

$1400 * 350 pcs sold = $490,000

This doesn't take into account all of the middlemen in Japan that take a cut, cost of a 1 year warranty in Japan nor development.

Can you elaborate on the middle men? I`m super curious about the whole thing..

[Shepardus]

Yeah apart from the language itself most of the last few pages would belong in some general topic. Maybe even an exa topic, but it has little to do with aka&blue

I'm in favor of a split, I think having a general Exa thread would benefit everyone here. There should be a place with links to all the other threads, anyway.

[rancor]

Some rough numbers:
SDOJ Retail $1800

I guess I got ripped off...

[zak]

Some rough numbers:
SDOJ Retail $1800

I guess I got ripped off...

I guess that's the middleman fee Shou was talking about.

By today's prices, those 4 kits are a down payment on an apartment

[zak]

This thread is poison

It's been so long since we've heard the announcement of a new arcade shmup, I think folks have forgotten that it's always immediately followed by people lamenting the news. If there's a group of "enthusiasts" more put-upon and aggrieved by their own hobby, I haven't found it.

I had forgotten, but I am not surprised. There isn't a limit on trolls and keyboard warriors unfortunately.

[Shou]

Can you elaborate on the middle men? I`m super curious about the whole thing..

Distributors and retail want their cut or they put it on top. They’ll take upwards of 10-20% depending upon the deal. Every Japanese industry is full of middlemen who take a cut and add little value.

[pixelcorps]

Can you elaborate on the middle men? I`m super curious about the whole thing..

Distributors and retail want their cut or they put it on top. They’ll take upwards of 10-20% depending upon the deal. Every Japanese industry is full of middlemen who take a cut and add little value.

Is this not something else that EXA can disrupt? surely a full run of boards / carts wouldn't take up that much storage space, and courier is easily done, in Tokyo hand delivery would also be possible,especially as at least one of your partners is based in Akiba.... Or would this incur the wrath of "Certain organizations"?

[Shou]

Can you elaborate on the middle men? I`m super curious about the whole thing..

Distributors and retail want their cut or they put it on top. They’ll take upwards of 10-20% depending upon the deal. Every Japanese industry is full of middlemen who take a cut and add little value.

Is this not something else that EXA can disrupt? surely a full run of boards / carts wouldn't take up that much storage space, and courier is easily done, in Tokyo hand delivery would also be possible,especially as at least one of your partners is based in Akiba.... Or would this incur the wrath of "Certain organizations"?

You will get cock blocked and black listed for life.

Cocky Silicon Valley guys always come to Japan and think they can disrupt the eco systems here.
Most go home a year later, several million dollars poorer.

Even Facebook and YouTube failed their first time here.

[charlie chong]

mainly the people who are not upset are all people who already buy/collect pcbs or have access to arcades so to have a go at "enthusiasts" who wont have access is a bit null.. i personally am not a fan of the newer cave games anyway but most of the forum are i just don't see why you can't release ports of the arcade version a year or so further down the line once the arcade revenue wont be coming in so much. surely that would be the best model to maximise profits anyway. having multiple versions just makes high score competition a pain for those that like that sort of thing.

[Udderdude]

I'm remembering back in the days when we were lucky to even get a console port, and there was zero chance of it being arcade accurate, because the hardware simply wasn't up to the task .. I'm ok with the Switch version being different as long as it's still a good game.

I feel like we were lucky to get the CAVE 360 ports, and even luckier that they turned out as well as they did. Especially Akai Katana and SDOJ.

I don't see the problem with different versions, not everyone is going to own a Switch or a mobile device that can run the game (I have the former but not the latter).

As for the arcade industry discussion, I can't fault anyone for wanting to give the arcade business model one last shot. This was at one point a market-defining industry, after all.

[KevinDDR]

If he wants them too last longer, he can just stop using save state practice and only do full runs. That should keep him busy.

Why is there such clear passive aggressive disdain for those members of the community who are actually good? shouldn't the best be aspired to and venerated as the standard? Do you tell musicians it only counts if they play a piece start to finish and never practice sections? Furthermore why is it always the older members of the scene who despite having cabinets and all the wonders of an arcade within their own residence that are complete shit players who seem more into attaching consumer objects to their portrayed image than ever indulging in the quest of self improvement through practice and a real appreciation of a games actual content as in its mechanics/challenge/function rather than it's aesthetic qualities?

buzzword soup

Again i get that you're another old talentless spastic who's bitter at those who actually get good at things and don't need to fill the weekly void with stuff n shit consumerism but seriously it's a shit dead model that has no future outside of luck surfing some gay retro revival for wealthy old fucks sporting man child twatoos and costa latte friendly gunt holders.

I am new to genre but am hoping for 1cc in a couple months of dodonpachi (1st loop).

If it takes you a couple months to 1CC DDP playing seriously I don't think you should be talking about "disdain towards those who actually get good at things". Not saying that being unable to do that is a bad thing but you certainly don't have the experience or community knowledge required to make such a snap judgment.

[emphatic]

you certainly don't have the experience or community knowledge required to make such a snap judgment.

Unless this is a banned member with a new handle.

[Domino]

you certainly don't have the experience or community knowledge required to make such a snap judgment.

Unless this is a banned member with a new handle.

I don't think there was a banned US member here who is has GM rank on TGM3 (KevinDDR).

[Bananamatic]

Then imagine all of your thrifty gamers who only buy at 50% off or more.

funny, this week I got dark souls 3+the first dlc for free just for getting a 1 month humble bundle subscription (which I'll cancel once I get 6 more random games for this absurdly low price)
unless you're big time into shmups (which is very few people), why would anyone buy a doujin for $15 when you can get a big time release for way less with 6 more games?

seems like those huge ass sales are worth it to big devs after a year or two->gamers get used to sales->perceived value of a game goes down->as a side effect shmups are worth nothing and developed exclusively at a loss

This thread is poison

It's been so long since we've heard the announcement of a new arcade shmup, I think folks have forgotten that it's always immediately followed by people lamenting the news. If there's a group of "enthusiasts" more put-upon and aggrieved by their own hobby, I haven't found it.

the sadder part is that there are great doujins coming out but absolutely no one gives a single fuck
only proves that it's more about arcade and less about shmups
it's the same goddamn thing, a controller connected to a pc with a game connected to a monitor
here's a question, why should doujin guys be motivated to make more if they know it's going to be disregarded and forgotten just because it runs on a regular pc and not on a special arcade pc?

[Udderdude]

You say that when 3 of the EXA's arcade launch titles are doujin and mobile games (Super Hydorah AC, Infinos Gaiden AC, Aka & Blue Type-R). Are they arcade exclusive versions? Yeah, you can only play them in an arcade. Are they entirely arcade exclusives? Nope.

Arcade owners and operators want at least something to draw in people, even if it's some arcade exclusive mode, new arcade exclusive levels and content, better graphics, etc.

Maybe that doujin you keep going on about (Rolling Gunner) will end up on EXA, too. I've been keeping an eye on it and it does look pretty good.

[Bananamatic]

You say that when 3 of the EXA's arcade launch titles are doujin and mobile games (Super Hydorah AC, Infinos Gaiden AC, Aka & Blue Type-R).

and where was the hype before they were arcade?
you can release even a turd like skycurser on arcade and people will eat it up

anything on arcade = new arcade game, hype
good doujin shmup = pc, who cares, probably has anime girls and is aimed at pedophiles

[Xyga]

@Udderdude; don't bother he doesn't give a fuck. You'd get more response from a block of concrete. He hates this place anyway.

[Udderdude]

There were threads about those games before the arcade announcement. I don't think Infinos Gaiden was even out for very long before the arcade version was announced. (On the other hand, I had never even heard of Skycurser until you mentioned it)

I don't think the anti-doujin or pro-arcade sentiment is nearly as high around here as you think. Most around here have come to terms with the fact that 100% arcade exclusives are a thing of the past (and so are ports that are actually better than the arcade versions).

People are just excited that someone is even trying to bring arcades back.

[qmish]

Infinos was pretty much hyped here, nah?

Hydorah not, but hydorah was update of old game that was already pretty loved by people

Aka to Blue ignored by many (though discussion was active due to ex-cave devs) due to smartphone and now when suddenly it goes to arcades and switch people appear and interested in it

What are those doujins you are talking about? Besides Infinos Gaiden, Cambria Sword and Rolling Gunner? + work in progress Armed Dragoon? That's all notable for recent years. Hm.. Graze Counter and Tenta Shooter counts too? and Momoira Underground (and i dont remember when mecha ritz itself came out)?

Ok, maybe also Metal Mosquito and L.U.X. from ring^-27 authors... wait.. they canceled that one?

Platine Dispositif's new title, also, was it released/abandoned?

p.s. there was some other doujin game that was "oh good!" from recent 5 years or so? i cant remember it, is there a list of all of them dammit
really i need to remember what was that 0o i only recall someone like system11 liking it in thread with discussion.. maybe its a bit older, anyway i dont recognize it from names

[Bananamatic]

come to terms with the fact that 100% arcade exclusives are a thing of the past

if people have to "come to terms" with something that really just means that 99.99% of people won't even get the chance to play it, it only further proves my point
the correct answer would be "good riddance"

anti-doujin sentiment

it's not an anti-doujin sentiment but rather complete apathy
unless it has anime girls, then it's open season

Infinos was pretty much hyped here, nah?

original infinos? there's 1 user on the high score board
one thread in shmups chat, 4 posts, 2 by the OP
if you consider this hype I don't know what to say

p.s. there was some other doujin game that was "oh good!" from recent 5 years or so? i cant remember it, is there a list of all of them dammit

astebreed, battle traverse, blue revolver, probably some more? possibly aero chimera and danmaku unlimited 3?