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 Post subject: Bubble Bobble 1CC Standards
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:55 pm 


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So, my wife is pregnant and we’ve had to face up to the harsh reality that we need to take care of our mutually important life goals before the baby is born; the most important of which is getting the two player 1CC on Bubble Bobble, obviously.

Does anybody have any expertise with this game? What is the standard for a 1CC run? Ben Shinobi’s videos are a great resource, but his video seems to use the Power Up mode cheat so that you always have all three candy power ups and the speed shoes, even after death. Is this the legit way folks play this game now? Recovery in this game is obnoxiously hard late game so I’d love to hear that. Is Power Up Mode the way it’s played in Japanese arcades?


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 Post subject: Re: Bubble Bobble 1CC Standards
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:26 am 


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Rupert H wrote:
So, my wife is pregnant and we’ve had to face up to the harsh reality that we need to take care of our mutually important life goals before the baby is born; the most important of which is getting the two player 1CC on Bubble Bobble, obviously.

Does anybody have any expertise with this game? What is the standard for a 1CC run? Ben Shinobi’s videos are a great resource, but his video seems to use the Power Up mode cheat so that you always have all three candy power ups and the speed shoes, even after death. Is this the legit way folks play this game now? Recovery in this game is obnoxiously hard late game so I’d love to hear that. Is Power Up Mode the way it’s played in Japanese arcades?


I suck ass at this series, but I figured I'd chime in as I recall crunching hard core to clear the first loop of Ketsui just before my son was born, which I did with about 2 days to go.

EDIT: And as an OCD loser I'll have to point out that it would technically be a 2CC. ;)

EDIT the 2nd: I did do a bit of a J-Google search but came up pretty empty handed. I think these days your best bet is to check Nico Nico clear videos and see how they do it. Second best would be to see if Gamest differentiated a score table w/ the different modes.
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 Post subject: Re: Bubble Bobble 1CC Standards
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:36 am 


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Sumez is my BRO 4 LIFE at this sort of game Image
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 Post subject: Re: Bubble Bobble 1CC Standards
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:42 am 


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This is very inspiring. Godspeed on this journey! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Bubble Bobble 1CC Standards
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:10 am 


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GaijinPunch wrote:
Second best would be to see if Gamest differentiated a score table w/ the different modes.

Gamest lists scores for Normal and Super, but they stopped keeping track of scores a few months after the game was released because of an infinite pattern. I don't see mention of a Power Up cheat, but if it can be done within the game without messing with dip switches or anything, I imagine they think it's fair game and probably use it.

BTW, congrats Rupert H.

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Incidentally, while writing this post, my son took a shit on my bed, so he sends his warmest regards as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Bubble Bobble 1CC Standards
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:22 am 


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NTSC-J wrote:
I don't see mention of a Power Up cheat, but if it can be done within the game without messing with dip switches or anything, I imagine they think it's fair game and probably use it.


They are entered at the title screen. I learned about them today.
http://www.nsknet.or.jp/~otayan/lockon/bubble.html

Quote:
Incidentally, while writing this post, my son took a shit on my bed, so he sends his warmest regards as well.


Guess I didn't know you had ruined your life, too! Congrats!
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 Post subject: Re: Bubble Bobble 1CC Standards
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:50 am 


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GaijinPunch wrote:
EDIT: And as an OCD loser I'll have to point out that it would technically be a 2CC. ;)


Or is it a 2-Player 1CC (i.e. 2 players, each uses only 1 credit)? What's the naming convention for this sorta thing?
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 Post subject: Re: Bubble Bobble 1CC Standards
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:32 am 


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Rupert H wrote:
So, my wife is pregnant and we’ve had to face up to the harsh reality that we need to take care of our mutually important life goals before the baby is born; the most important of which is getting the two player 1CC on Bubble Bobble, obviously.


:mrgreen:

Congratulations Rupert! best of luck to you and the missus.
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 Post subject: Re: Bubble Bobble 1CC Standards
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:54 pm 



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The power up cheat only works on MAME and the PCB.

Personally I believe the game is fairer with the cheat on. There are some levels you can clear very quickly with speed. Take level 32. The one with the square pink housing that you have to jump up the side and fall in the middle.

The PS1 iteration has a bug on level 92 or something like that. The bubbles do not travel where you need them to travel, so without an umbrella and/or getting the bonus life letters your screwed.

How close are you to getting a 1cc and which platform are you playing on?
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 Post subject: Re: Bubble Bobble 1CC Standards
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:16 pm 


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This thread got me to play BB last night. Only reached stage 19, but damn is it easier when you have the uh - machine gun (?) power up.
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 Post subject: Re: Bubble Bobble 1CC Standards
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:23 pm 



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First goal is to reach level 20 with 1 life. A treasure room opens.

There are treasure rooms on levels 30,40,50 I believe as well. Not sure beyond that I have never gotten that far with 1 life. I only have the PS1 version so the cheat does not work.
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 Post subject: Re: Bubble Bobble 1CC Standards
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:20 am 


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The power up cheat is definitely NOT allowed for a 1cc!

I get why you want to use it, because the game is painful when you get crippled especially for missing the running shoes. Getting those early is a big part of the early strategy.

And yeah, as people said you don't want to miss the treasure rooms on level 20, 30 and 40, which means you need to not die anyway, which is why this game is brutal!

The door on level 50 doesn't give you treasures but lets you skip a ton of stages. That might sound bad for scoring, but the stages you skip are actually some of the hardest in the game, with a low scoring potential. The final 20 are much more generous, with several of them pretty mich being freebie 8-combos.

Edit: sorry for my sloppy writing, I'm horribly drunk right now... I still know how Bubble Bobble works tho :3


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 Post subject: Re: Bubble Bobble 1CC Standards
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:48 am 


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Is there any rhyme or reason to how power ups are distributed? Or is it random?
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 Post subject: Re: Bubble Bobble 1CC Standards
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:31 am 



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If you pop many enemies at once you get the letters on the next level. Only works if you burst 3x at once or more.

The candy's give you the speed ups on bubbles and the shoes give you faster running speed. These will come on screen after about 30-40 seconds. The golden/yellow one can come up on the 1st screen quite a bit on the upper right level. A score technique on level 1 is to blow as many bubbles as possible before bursting the enemies. All bubbles will turn into something that gives you points. Only works on level 1.

The hooks give you a giant fruit when the last enemy is burst and it will fall to the middle of the bottom area of the level.

The treaure chest gives you a giant diamond that falls to the middle of the bottom of the level.

Treasure rooms at 20,30,40 are accessed by entering a door that appears if your still on 1 life. Level 20 door appears top left. Level 30 door top right.

Umbrella skips levels.

The candys are totally random.
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 Post subject: Re: Bubble Bobble 1CC Standards
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:28 am 


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I know quite a bit about the arcade game; I used to play it every day with my workmate in the 90's when we were working at Probe. We had the cab in the office because Probe was making the conversion for Playstation and Saturn.

First of all, Bubble Bobble is designed to be 2-player game. This means that you can 1CC it, but it has multiple endings, and to reach the best ending, you need to play it in SUPER mode with 2 players. Super mode is activated with a sequence of joystick moves and button presses, which is revealed in secret rooms. The only function of secret rooms is to reveal how to activate the SUPER mode. In my memory, you don't need to reach them again to get the best ending on super mode, though they do yield a considerable score.

1CC ending in normal shows the dinosaurs meeting their girlfriends and their hearts break
1CC or 2CC ending with secret rooms reached shows them turning into humans, meeting their girlfriends, everyone is happy, and you get the code for SUPER mode and hint that there is even better ending.
2CC ending on SUPER mode shows that the big boss was actually their parents, and the whole family reunites.

It is not possible to activate both cheat and super mode, so best ending cannot be done with cheat.

Oh and forget the PS1 and Saturn versions. Like Rainbow Islands, Bubble Bobble on Sat & Ps1 is based on the code from the Amiga and ST versions. I remember how David Broadhurst (who did the 16-bit conversions of Bubble Bobble) stopped by the office, he showed me how the behaviour of the enemies was different in the arcade; in the arcade, the enemies will jump after you if they are on platform below you. In amiga and ST, they don't. I know it could be tempting to think that PS1 and Saturn versions are arcade perfect, since their graphics were dumped from the coin-op rom, but they are not. This is because Acclaim refused to give enough money to re-engineer the conversion code so that it could have been perfect. The producer of the conversions told me this.


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 Post subject: Re: Bubble Bobble 1CC Standards
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:06 pm 


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Stevens wrote:
Is there any rhyme or reason to how power ups are distributed? Or is it random?

This is a good place to look for such things, contrary to popular belief, nothing is given randomly in this game, everything works via hidden offscreen counters: http://tjasink.com/games/bb/

And if you're in the mood for Rainbow Islands (Extra works differently in some ways to the original RI), again, nothing is given randomly in this game, same with Parasol Stars, and the later Bubble Bobble arcade sequels): http://tjasink.com/games/ri/
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Last edited by Bloodreign on Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Bubble Bobble 1CC Standards
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:09 pm 


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Stevens wrote:
Is there any rhyme or reason to how power ups are distributed? Or is it random?


neorichieb1971 wrote:
The candys are totally random.


Image

The only thing in the game determined by actual RNG is the very rare fire bubble that flies in along with other bubbles and allows you to blow fire instead of bubbles.

The candy, along with the running shoes, and every other power up that appears on in one of the two set positions on a screen, is determined by a bunch of different factors, such as how many times you jumped, how far you've walked, how many times you've crossed to the top by falling through the bottom, etc. Each of those powerups have a priority making the high priority ones appear first, queuing others for subsequent stages. The candy and shoe powerups have the lowest priority, which is why they tend to become rarer as you get further into the game even though their reuirements are probably the most simple.

From a fresh restart (the counters carry over between games!), it's very easy to manipulate the powerups and get the ones you want ASAP (and then try not to die!), but the longer you play, the more random the stuff you get will start to feel, even if it's technically completely deterministic. However, knowing what things causes what powerups can at least help you try to enforce stuff you want the most, like the canes and potions. It's a great element to the game that enforces an impression of randomness, but with enough predictability to never be unfair, and depending on what items you get on what stages, two seperate runs through Bubble Bobble can easily end up being completely different.

edit: Bloodreign beat me to the link. Check that site for the list of what counters control what powerups, it's very thorough.

One other thing to note - as I was saying, every level has two set items that will always appear in the same two locations. One is the powerup as described above, and the other is a score item. The score item is always based on how fast you cleared the previous screen.


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 Post subject: Re: Bubble Bobble 1CC Standards
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:18 pm 


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I highly recommend playing at least Rainbow Islands, Rainbow Islands Extra, the Gameboy versions of Bubble Bobble 1 and 2, Parasol Stars. Bubble Symphony, and Bubble Memories as well. The NES version of Bubble Bobble Part 2 is fun, but the heart and soul of the original is oddly not there (but I have it anyway due to my love of the series).
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 Post subject: Re: Bubble Bobble 1CC Standards
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:19 pm 


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neorichieb1971 wrote:
A score technique on level 1 is to blow as many bubbles as possible before bursting the enemies. All bubbles will turn into something that gives you points. Only works on level 1.

The hooks give you a giant fruit when the last enemy is burst and it will fall to the middle of the bottom area of the level.

It actually works on every level divisible by 5, and also on any other level if the tens and hundreds digits in your score is the same (basically blow bubbles into the wall until the numbers match up, and then make sure no empty bubbles touch the last enemies that you pop (since popped enemies only give scores in round thousands). And furthermore, it also happens if you got the cane, so basically don't worry about aligning the digits in any of the other two situations.

The primary scoring trick in the game though, is trying to pop as many enemies grouped together as possible. Getting all 8 gives you a considerably higher score than anything else in the game, and will also cause a cane to appear in the "powerup queue", resulting in even more points, and enough letter bubbles for a full EXTEND.

neorichieb1971 wrote:
The treaure chest gives you a giant diamond that falls to the middle of the bottom of the level.

The treasure chest reuires you to beat the final boss.


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 Post subject: Re: Bubble Bobble 1CC Standards
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:53 pm 



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NTSC-J wrote:
Incidentally, while writing this post, my son took a shit on my bed, so he sends his warmest regards as well.


it's nice to start the day laughing out loud alone at the computer ... thanks for that!


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 Post subject: Re: Bubble Bobble 1CC Standards
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:21 pm 


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Thanks for the link and information. Much appreciated.
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 Post subject: Re: Bubble Bobble 1CC Standards
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:32 pm 


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How are we playing?

Image

Is there any other way? :D Well, that's a little misleading. I'm actually running GroovyMame, but it does mean I definitely have that tempting access to Power Up mode. I also heard that some of the home ports mess up the air flow on many of the levels. This is definitely a PCB/MAME-only game.

Thanks for the feedback dudes. We're both very aware of the game systems (starting from cold boot, item spawn rules, treasure room doors, etc) and we've got a personal best of level 87, so we're really not far off. Thanks (and no thanks :wink: ) for setting the record straight on the Power Up mode Sumez, even though that's not the news I wanted to hear. The real ball-ache with recoveries in this game is due to the way the power items spawn. As you say, early on in the game it's easy to manipulate the item spawns, as you have both the ease of the levels and the relative lack of layered item triggers. Dying on level 87 however, we find it impossible to manipulate or plan anything and we just watch each of our five lives empty out one by one. 1LC up to level 50 is essential, as that treasure door warps you straight to level 70.

Oh well... I guess we might have to save state practice the latter third of the game and go for the 1LC. Super Mode can honestly fuck off though.


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 Post subject: Re: Bubble Bobble 1CC Standards
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:46 pm 


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Cute pic. ^__^
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 Post subject: Re: Bubble Bobble 1CC Standards
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:42 pm 



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neorichieb1971 wrote:
The treaure chest gives you a giant diamond that falls to the middle of the bottom of the level.

The treasure chest reuires you to beat the final boss.[/quote]

I can't argue with you on some of the other things you wrote because even if counters exist in the game which I was aware of from reading wiki's about 10 years ago, its so bonkers you couldn't possibly figure it into gameplay and to your advantage. Unless of course your going to sit there jumping and falling through ceilings on purpose. I suppose you could do it on some levels.

On the PS1 version there is a box that appears, if you get it a big diamond falls down the screen and gives you 50000 points. It happens a lot. So either its not a treasure box or it doesn't happen in the arcade version.
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 Post subject: Re: Bubble Bobble 1CC Standards
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:52 pm 


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neorichieb1971 wrote:
its so bonkers you couldn't possibly figure it into gameplay and to your advantage. Unless of course your going to sit there jumping and falling through ceilings on purpose. I suppose you could do it on some levels.

...that is actually exactly what you do. You want to trigger the best powerups early on before you start triggering the ones with a higher priority. And you get a lot of points for the potions - there are many stages with a very low scoring potential, so if you can set up a potion on the stage before that, that's a good way to improve your game. (very easy to do for level 18 for example)
There are a few other triggers that are useful to keep in mind, most obviously the one that causes canes to appear.

I'd agree though that for most of the other items there's really no reason to try to enforce anything, and just go with it. That's not the same as them being random though. I think that makes a big difference, and already stated why.

neorichieb1971 wrote:
On the PS1 version there is a box that appears, if you get it a big diamond falls down the screen and gives you 50000 points. It happens a lot. So either its not a treasure box or it doesn't happen in the arcade version.

Yeah the PS1 version is... not good. That was already accounted for earlier in the thread.


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 Post subject: Re: Bubble Bobble 1CC Standards
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:55 pm 


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Rupert H wrote:
Thanks (and no thanks :wink: ) for setting the record straight on the Power Up mode Sumez, even though that's not the news I wanted to hear.

Obviously no one's gonna prevent you from using the powerup mode, it's still a great game with it - but I've never heard of anyone doing serious scoring attempts in the game with that cheat code enabled, so I'd apply the same logic to a 1CC run. Just play the game the way you guys enjoy it the best :D


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 Post subject: Re: Bubble Bobble 1CC Standards
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:17 pm 



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Why is breaking world record scoring important when you haven't beaten the game or gotten anywhere near a 1cc?

I've played many iterations of the game since 1990 and I have never 1cc the game. But I have beaten it. The talk of scoring seems mighty premature at this stage.

As for the conversions, they are still games called BB and even though not perfect will have their own strategies to beat. I do understand in this case we are talking about the PCB/Mame iteration of it.
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 Post subject: Re: Bubble Bobble 1CC Standards
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:48 pm 


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I'm not talking about breaking world records, I'm talking about how the game is designed.


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 Post subject: Re: Bubble Bobble 1CC Standards
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:51 am 


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neorichieb1971 wrote:
The candys are totally random.


No.

Strategywiki has the conditions for how to make each candy appear.
https://strategywiki.org/wiki/Bubble_Bobble/Special_items


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 Post subject: Re: Bubble Bobble 1CC Standards
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:02 pm 


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Played a lot bubble bobble revolution on the dsi xl.
The classic version is incl. Not sure if its converted from arcade or the ps1 version.
But it works great.


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