arcade-imperfect for the win: quality 'interpretations'?

[Herr Schatten]

As an avid follower of the best thread in the world, one post from __SKYe caught my attention.

Have only some mild experience with the Arcade version, but you should also try the SMS port. It is almost a different game, trading the open-level style of the original with flip-screen gameplay.

This reminded me of how in the 8-bit (and, to a lesser extend, early 16-bit) days it was actually rather common that developers didn't even try to replicate the arcade experience and went for a game that played to the target machine's strength instead, often with results that were good and interesting in their own rights. To this day, I have a soft spot for those.

So let's talk about those console (and maybe homecomputer) 'ports' that only bear a loose resemblance to their arcade counterparts, but aren't actually the worse for it. What are your favourites and why? And in which ways do they differ from the source material?

I believe NES Bionic Commando might fit the bill, although I have little experience with it. What else is out there?

[BIL]

I didn't know that thread had quite so many esteemed fans, I'm honoured. This is one of my very favourite subjects, but I need to recharge me batteries a bit so I'll defer for the moment.

I believe NES Bionic Commando might fit the bill, although I have little experience with it.

I used to think so - on sheer quality it most certainly ranks alongside masterpieces of the form like FC Double Dragon II - but since getting into the marginally superior FC version*, I suspect Top Secret: Hitler no Fukkatsu was meant as an original home sequel to the arcade Top Secret.

*more enemies basically, dials the intensity up a bit - also they edited out a shooting star for some reason on NES! Along with several truckloads worth of Swastika-stamped sheet metal, brickwork and other miscellaneous scenery, as you'd expect. They also chopped the rudimentary but inherently brutal torture sequence (batter a captive enemy soldier for info in JP... he'll resist at first but keep at it, the human spirit can only withstand so much

ON YOUR KNEES PRISONER, TAKE YOUR POSITION (・｀W´・)

On NES you make a short hop across a spike pit to apparently terrify (or impress?) him into submission. Well-spotted, localisers! Wait a sec... you left the last boss's gorenographically detailed exploding headshot in?! What in the heck! Must've been a Scanners fan on the team. Or maybe they just didn't survive to the end? That jump is a bitch!

[soprano1]

This might be the start of something good.

[Obscura]

I'll go ahead and name the obvious, Contra.

Most people also feel that way about Super Contra, but most people are also wrong.

[WelshMegalodon]

Let's see, the ones everyone knows are Contra FC, Ninja Gaiden FC, Section Z FC, and the Double Dragon games, in addition to the aforementioned Top Secret FC. Strider Hiryu FC and Makaijma FC also get frequent mentions in these types of threads, even though they're a sequel and an unrelated game, respectively.

The Master System versions of Daimakaimura, Quartet, Enduro Racer, and Rastan Saga also fit the bill, although it's debatable as to whether the first three are genuine improvements over the originals. Whether or not the console-exclusive remixes of Slap Fight and Senjou no Okami II also count are up to you.

EDIT: Forgot Ares no Tsubasa FC (this was Capcom's specialty, as we all know). The Sega versions of Ninja Ryukenden don't count.

How did I forget Shadow Dancer MD?

[Stevens]

Let's see, the ones everyone knows are Contra FC, Ninja Gaiden FC, Section Z FC, and the Double Dragon games, in addition to the aforementioned Top Secret FC. Strider Hiryu FC and Makaijma FC also get frequent mentions in these types of threads, even though they're a sequel and an unrelated game, respectively.

The Master System versions of Daimakaimura, Quartet, Enduro Racer, and Rastan Saga also fit the bill, although it's debatable as to whether the first three are genuine improvements over the originals. Whether or not the console-exclusive remixes of Slap Fight and Senjou no Okami II also count are up to you.

Quite a list you've got there. The only one I can think of adding would be Renegade on the NES/SMS.

As far as the SMS ones - Always found it funny they went the direction with Enduro Racer that they did, after all the port of Hang On was OK.

Ghouls is pretty good too, really depends on how you feel about the shop system.

And I am probably biased, but I love Quartet on the SMS. Rastan is really good...still salty I never cleared it.

[FinalBaton]

I really like what they did with Rygar on FC.

[Ghegs]

Ninja Gaiden FC

Technically, not a port or even a "port", because the NES/FC game and the arcade game were developed concurrently, by separate teams who did their own thing.

I nominate Konami's Jackal, which is doubly interesting because not only is the arcade original different from the NES release, the Famicom Disk System version is also notably different from the NES one.

[Sumez]

Konami in general was good at that. Gyruss is another great 8-bit port, I learned that right here, not too long ago :3 Has boss fights and stuff not found in the original game.

[WelshMegalodon]

Technically, not a port or even a "port", because the NES/FC game and the arcade game were developed concurrently, by separate teams who did their own thing.

Gah. So it's like Strider or the various Willow games. I thought I had a good grasp on when that was the case, but I guess I was wrong. Thanks for the correction.

Am I right in recognizing ESWAT MD as a conversion in the line of Contra, rather than a separate project? How about Area 88 SFC and Super Earth Defense Force?

[Stevens]

Am I right in recognizing ESWAT MD as a conversion in the line of Contra, rather than a separate project? How about Area 88 SFC and Super Earth Defense Force?

I'd say close enough. Except one of those games is fun to play, the other is ESWAT:D

Tried playing it the other day, calling it a poor man's Shinobi is being generous. The only time I think Sega didn't knock a movie er....tie in(?) out of the park.

[mikejmoffitt]

NES / Famicom Double Dragon II. Still a scrolling brawler but there's some actual level design, well telegraphed enemy behaviour, and cool techniques you can do (and one shitty broken overpowered technique if you want to go down that path)

[BIL]

NES / Famicom Double Dragon II. Still a scrolling brawler but there's some actual level design, well telegraphed enemy behaviour, and cool techniques you can do (and one shitty broken overpowered technique if you want to go down that path)

The FC version, it must be stressed, is a distinct improvement over the NES in that regard. Its "Difficult" mode leaves the NES equivalent "Supreme Master" in the dust. Contrary to popular wisdom (see TCRF), it's no mere "x2 enemy HP" tweak. Where NES AI is dozy, FC AI is 110% aggression - if you're in range, you're being attacked. So the knee is no longer an instant kill, and even if it connects, it'll almost certainly trade without very careful spacing.

It takes on a more organic role as a launcher for blasting enemies off ledges - the only way it'll get you those NES-style instant kills. Even then, it's frequently more practical to just stun and throw/punt 'em to their doom. Still the single most powerful move, and satisfying as all hell to connect with, but the massive hit to its reliability gives some much-needed utility to the rest of the movelist.

[TransatlanticFoe]

Interesting topic, my 8-bit experience is with the Master System and I think on the whole it got more faithful arcade ports (good, bad and indeed ugly) than complete re-jigs

I'm quite fond of Line of Fire for the SMS. Maybe this is just my nostalgia clouding things though, because I did end up with this thanks to late night shopping where all the usual shops were closed and I NEEDED to spend my pocket money on a new game. Sure it's a bit goofy the way the jeep moves and ewww lifebar, but the high/low target mechanics are quite well done and it has some nice aesthetics later on. A bit like Enduro Racer, I'm genuinely surprised they didn't go for a closer arcade conversion though, in this case more light gun action is always welcome and it would've worked straight Operation Wolf-style.

A pair of SMS arcade "ports" that are interesting for the same reason as each other - Super Monaco GP and GP Rider (hands up who remembers GP Rider in the arcade!). They both toss aside the standard arcade mode for a full grand prix season (though GP Rider does give you a token arcade mode featuring the arcade's track layout), so far so standard home racing game. But both feature spilt screen with a genuine CPU opponent who makes mistakes, instead of the usual artificial rubber-banding or an infallible top driver. I don't recall other games that did this, even later racing titles tended to have CPU opponents following fixed lines at fixed speeds and only screwed up when you did something to interrupt their rigid route.

Shadow Dancer is a weird one. Quite why they attempted the arcade version on the SMS but made the MD version an entirely different game I will never know.

[mikejmoffitt]

NES / Famicom Double Dragon II. Still a scrolling brawler but there's some actual level design, well telegraphed enemy behaviour, and cool techniques you can do (and one shitty broken overpowered technique if you want to go down that path)

The FC version, it must be stressed, is a distinct improvement over the NES in that regard. Its "Difficult" mode leaves the NES equivalent "Supreme Master" in the dust. Contrary to popular wisdom (see TCRF), it's no mere "x2 enemy HP" tweak. Where NES AI is dozy, FC AI is 110% aggression - if you're in range, you're being attacked. So the knee is no longer an instant kill, and even if it connects, it'll almost certainly trade without very careful spacing.

It takes on a more organic role as a launcher for blasting enemies off ledges - the only way it'll get you those NES-style instant kills. Even then, it's frequently more practical to just stun and throw/punt 'em to their doom. Still the single most powerful move, and satisfying as all hell to connect with, but the massive hit to its reliability gives some much-needed utility to the rest of the movelist.

Noted. I'll have to grab the FC version and give it a go.

[Specineff]

NES Astyanax and Gun.Smoke should be good examples of this.

[Obscura]

Gun.Smoke? Oh man, I can already hear BIL's indignation.

[GaijinPunch]

Anyone else like Rastan on SMS?

[BrianC]

A pair of SMS arcade "ports" that are interesting for the same reason as each other - Super Monaco GP and GP Rider (hands up who remembers GP Rider in the arcade!). They both toss aside the standard arcade mode for a full grand prix season (though GP Rider does give you a token arcade mode featuring the arcade's track layout), so far so standard home racing game. But both feature spilt screen with a genuine CPU opponent who makes mistakes, instead of the usual artificial rubber-banding or an infallible top driver. I don't recall other games that did this, even later racing titles tended to have CPU opponents following fixed lines at fixed speeds and only screwed up when you did something to interrupt their rigid route.

Final Lap on FC also does that split screen against a single opponent thing. Speaking of GP Rider, the GG version is different from the SMS version and one mode is pretty much a "port" of Super Hang On.

[FinalBaton]

Anyone else like Rastan on SMS?

I quite like it, eh. Jump is stiff but it's still quite manageable. That's a good game for the master system I think.

[null1024]

Except one of those games is fun to play, the other is ESWAT:D

Tried playing it the other day, calling it a poor man's Shinobi is being generous. The only time I think Sega didn't knock a movie er....tie in(?) out of the park.

Genesis E-SWAT has every right to be fairly decent... and fucks it up.
Spent a bunch of time with that game trying to like it, and then went back to the vastly superior Shadow Dancer on Genesis after like two weeks.
Very nice graphics though... at least from the 4th stage onward.

the jetpack burner thing is obnoxiously twitchy to use and the game seems to insist on making you wish you didn't have the suit by making the first two stages not have it, letting you enjoy the smaller hitbox and then snatching it away
the stage design is kind of annoying, too

[BIL]

Gun.Smoke? Oh man, I can already hear BIL's indignation.

I think NES Gun.Smoke is okay - worth it for the catchier OST and much cooler Ninja redesign, at least. I like blasting varmints with the new shotgun. Would totally nab a copy to go with FC 1943, but it was disk-only in Japan (just like Section Z).

Maybe I'd feel differently if the AC game wasn't in perfect form on PS1 (Capcom Generation 4), but I enjoy relaxing with that style of port occasionally. It's undeniably wimpy compared to the murderous AI and deadly technique of the AC ver, but tbh most shooters are (console and arcade alike).

[kitten]

I nominate Konami's Jackal, which is doubly interesting because not only is the arcade original different from the NES release, the Famicom Disk System version is also notably different from the NES one.

iirc the fds game is more like the arcade game (i seem to recall it basically being one extremely long stretch, like the arcade game, rather than the distinct levels that the nes game is broken into).

the nes game is one of my favorite games, honestly! real good stuff. i came into this thread to mention it, if no one else had. i love the dynamic that having one of your guns be fixed-fire and the other be free-fire creates - radically unexplored idea in the free scrolling shooter genre, imho. classic konami production value & presentation, too. though the game goes far from unmentioned, i feel it's one of the most underappreciated konami titles of its generation.

check out this cool old ad pairing it with contra, the expression on the guy in the back is priceless!!

Spoiler

i'm guessing when the thread title says "8-bit" it means "famicom & sms," so i'll avoid tossing a bunch of pc engine stuff in on technicality.

Haha, no, I think NES Gun.Smoke is cool!

ah, man, my cart of this one is bugged. it starts by switching the letter "O" to "G" at a certain point, then consistently continues to get worse. no idea what's up with it, but it's really funny how weird the written stuff starts to get.

- - - - -

as for a few of my own suggestions that have yet to be mentioned (lots of stuff already gone over!) -

meikyu jima/kickle cubicle - the fc/nes port of this one is so ubiquitous that it's often forgotten it had an arcade port. bosses are totally different on the console version and i like the music & visuals quite a bit more. also features all-new post-game levels that are shockingly mean! i'm not sure how many differences there are in the ordinary stages, however. really quality top-down puzzle action frankly only outshone by the outstanding mole mania/moguranya.

legendary wings - i think this one only hit the nes, not getting an fc port. considerably easier than the arcade version, which i only briefly played around with years ago but have strong memories of feeling like it was too outright mean to be interesting. difficulty is likely a bit sedate for people here, but i enjoyed it quite a bit despite the incredible breeziness. horizontal stages are entirely retooled to be scrolling shooter segments versus the scrolling platformer action you see in the arcade version.

heavy barrel - never played the arcade version, but i actually enjoyed the fc/nes version of this a decent bit and felt it at least looked a lot more forgiving and had better music. kind of outshined by jackal, but from what i recall, a solid experience. also allows simultaneous co-op!

section z - alright, i've passed on several here that are notably different than their arcade versions i didn't feel were good enough to really bring up while skimming through my collection, but i've got to mention this one for feeling like an entirely different game. really strongly prefer the arcade version of this one because of the obnoxious maze elements fo the fcds/nes game, but if strider nes gets a mention, i'm tossing this in the ring.

is it worth bringing up the ganbare goemon series? it's a bit more like top secret/bionic commando where the fc game is more like a sequel of sorts.

gradius II - the fc version is totally retooled from the arcade version and very much has its own identity. although the difficulty has been neutered, i frankly prefer it. outstanding audio/visual work and a real genre stand-out on the famicom, which, at least in my opinion, lacks for great shooters when compared to its incredibly superb scrolling action library. this one is probably a little too obvious and only unmentioned for that reason, so far.

salamander/life force - same story as gradius II, though this is often seen as having a bit less to make it stand out. really excellent console version for its time, however! the most impressive shooter up to its release on the console and, like gradius, a huge landmark for its time. play the fc version if you can - the only transparent plastic fc cart i can ever recall seeing, and it has some slight additions making it better than the nes version. notable for having a pretty competent 2p simultaneous mode, too.

the tower of druaga - screen proportions are retooled slightly for fc, and there's the addition of an entire extra quest that makes everything uniquely different and more often than not quite a bit harder. keep in mind that its bonus quest is different from later ports of the game, though if you want to go full-on with your masochism, you should check out the ps1 port (arcade perfect for 1st quest, iirc) via namco museum - holy shit does its extra quest have some hilarious meanness. druaga is not what i would call a good game by any stretch of the imagination, but it's a pretty formative classic and i give it a genuine recommendation.

joust - adds some extra modes, has a different "feel" to it. i bring this up because it was one of a few different fc/nes ports that iwata worked on, and because it was a childhood favorite. he actually programmed the port for this prior to the release of balloon fight but it only saw light of day a couple years later, which kind of confirms balloon fight as being joust "inspired." more info on that, here. there were a few other fc/nes ports HAL did like this, too, iirc, but this one is perhaps most interesting.

star force - not really very different from its arcade version, but i bring it up for its historical importance. hudson porting this tehkan/tecmo shooter to the famicom was wiiiildly successful for them, and it spawned their landmark caravan shooting series, star soldier. worth playing (if only briefly, it's quite dated and ain't no xevious) to experience what was essentially the genesis of hudson's caravan shooting events.

there we go. a bunch of stuff. i tried to leave out the uninteresting or really poor quality stuff, and probably missed quite a few things that i've played.

i keep meaning to get back to posting in the scrolling action thread!! and the pick-ups thread, actually. been either too busy or too low energy. ah, the holiday seasonnnn~

edit:

fuck section z got brought up and i missed it WHOOPS oh well

[Sumez]

I wanted to say Legendary Wings, but I have close to no experience with the arcade version, so I figured I had no authority to speak for it.

Salamander NES/FC is nice, but compared to the PC Engine version I find it hard to recommend. If nothing else, I think the areas that are unique to the NES/FC versions are by far the strongest part of the game.
The difficulty is oddly balanced. It seems challenging at first due to the memorization heavy fire stage (3), but once you get past that it's completely smooth sailing. With built in autofire some bosses will go down in a couple of seconds when fully powered. That's both awesome and a little sad.

though the game goes far from unmentioned, i feel it's one of the most underappreciated konami titles of its generation.

Curiously, Jackal is mostly unknown in this part of the world, since the NES version only was release in North America. I always see it namedropped in American "video game nostalgia" context, but I only discovered the game in "recent" years (ie. within the last couple of decades)

[BIL]

check out this cool old ad pairing it with contra, the expression on the guy in the back is priceless!!

Major Commando vibes, haha.

EH SULLIE, REMEMBER WHEN I SAID I WOULD KILL YOU LAST :^|
Y-y-y-yeah Matrix! Yeah, you DID say that!
I LIED :^[
Uwaaaaaa!
...
...
I LET HIM GO ;^]

I love those ol' Archie comic-frequenting Konami ads. Capcom's were ace too, and quite similar in approach... wonder if they were by the same agency. Here's Super "C" / Snake's Revenge:

Spoiler

i'm guessing when the thread title says "8-bit" it means "famicom & sms," so i'll avoid tossing a bunch of pc engine stuff in on technicality.

Same, otherwise the essential PCE Salamander would be in like sin! Looks AC-perfect but is heavily retooled and improved. Adds checkpoints, which will dismay at first, but with the much fairer design elswhere the game is stronger and no less fast-paced for them.

heavy barrel - never played the arcade version, but i actually enjoyed the fc/nes version of this a decent bit and felt it at least looked a lot more forgiving and had better music. kind of outshined by jackal, but from what i recall, a solid experience. also allows simultaneous co-op!

I tried getting into this recently - was liking the high bodycount and booming weaponry, but just couldn't put up with the slow scrolling. If not for that I'd probably be tempted.

Have you played the FC port of Guevara, by the way? It's the most essential topdown shooting action on the platform, imo. Bit of sprite breakup under extreme load aside, it's technically sound and has some good 2P co-op. The combination of ravenous destruction and high-precision shooting (killable hostages litter the field) might make it an acquired taste... personally, I really liked learning to channel my torrent of death around the friendlies. Others might be happy enough just murdering any and everyone indiscriminately...

I wish it at least let you strafe ala Shock Troopers (the AC original is rotary stick, ala Ikari), but it's nothing that I can't work around. I can imagine you might not like it on this count (I remember you mentioned being leery of SFC Kiki Kaikai for similar reasons), but on the off chance you've not tried it, it's got my approval. Sadly it's not the easiest to get hold of on FC these days, but the NES cart is AFAIK identical besides the obligatory censoring of the protagonists and the seemingly petty removal of the FC's hidden "Sasuke VS Commander" port.

[kitten]

Strider Hiryu FC and Makaijma FC also get frequent mentions in these types of threads, even though they're a sequel and an unrelated game, respectively.

technically, strider only got released for nes, though there was a beta version of the famicom version floating around. didn't that get dumped surprisingly recently, or am i remembering wrong?

also, i don't think it was a sequel, but an adaptation of the manga, which as far as i know, has still never been properly translated. you can still look through the manga's pictures and see it's the same story, though.

Same, otherwise the essential PCE Salamander would be in like sin! Looks AC-perfect but is heavily retooled and improved. Adds checkpoints, which will dismay at first, but with the much fairer design elswhere the game is stronger and no less fast-paced for them.

my pce collection, though getting close to 100 games, is still sadly lacking in konami stuff, minus the essential chi no rondo. they're always highly contested and really hard to get cheap! this is of course a must-get, eventually.

Have you played the FC port of Guevara, by the way? It's the most essential topdown shooting action on the platform, imo. Bit of sprite breakup under extreme load aside, it's technically sound and has some good 2P co-op.

i'd put it well below jackal, which i'm highly fond of (i love its methodical pacing, even if it occasionally leads to some admittedly tedious screen-edging), but yeah, it's some pretty good fun! i've never sat down and really applied myself to it, though - but i've blown through it in co-op a few times while credit feeding like a maniac. hard to beat its frantic pacing and general silliness.

[BIL]

Ohshi - Jackal is 2P too, isn't it? Totally forgot about 2P's rusty brown jeep. Man, one of those "lost" NES games to me. Disk-only in JP and I can't be bothered with either FDS or NES collecting, though the latter is certainly more likely to occur at some point.

Yeah in that case I'd definitely put it at least level with Guevara, though they're so different in tone I'd be hard-pressed to choose. Jackal's probably the formally better game but Guevara has a balls-to-the-wall lunacy I honestly don't see very often from action gaming period. Fond memories of attempting a "respectable" 2P no-miss and screaming WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING?! as my cousin just dispensed with niceties and rushed the enemy line, slaughtering like ten hostages in the process.

[Obscura]

"Highrolla Kockamanie"

Man, I love '80s Konami localization.

[BIL]

I know right Highrolla Kockamamie, Vermon Cataffy... now I'm wondering if "Red Falcon" was a reference to the Red Army Faction. Although a quick lookup suggests the name is in JP too, albeit exclusively referring to the army under the aliens' control.

I want to say there was an LCD Contra that was censored/localised to merely "C" at the time. As a kid I found that unfathomably ballsy, I assumed they were just going "you know who it is motherfuckers" to the audience. Reagantastic days for little kid action gamers.

EDIT: yep! Here it is.

Spoiler

THIRD RULE IS: DON'T TALK TO COMMIES

[kitten]

yeah, jackal's got some real fun co-op!

quick refresher on the intro, it actually shows the dudes in the jeeps, too! ah, man, i really love jackal so much. THIS BATTLE WILL MAKE YOUR BLOOD BOIL.

i've still never played around with the looping on this game to see if it does anything really cool! i think i played through a 2nd loop at least once and noticed some differences, but it's rather uncharted territory for me. i remember these old images i made in some thread i was trying to sell the game to people in years ago! -






i should probably sit down with guevara and give it a more dedicate single player attempt, sometime!