arcade-imperfect for the win: quality 'interpretations'?

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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BIL
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Re: arcade-imperfect for the win: quality 'interpretations'?

Post by BIL »

kitten wrote:BIL, your quoting of commando earlier in this thread let me to watch it tonight with two of my friends.
Excellent, I hope my reading of that scene did it some justice. :mrgreen:
did you ever play rearmed, by the way? it's honestly my favorite of the series, and i feel it definitely took inspiration from the gb game in some of the swinging tweaks and final stage. its super hard mode is a truly brutal challenge!
I've not played it, but this is exactly the sort of recommendation that keeps it on my todo list - Damocles on here is another hardcore BCGB fan who swears by Rearmed's challenge stages. I've a decided habit of putting stuff off further, the more recently it came out. Not a generational bias, I just know I can probably nab it more easily down the road than older stuff. ;3
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Re: arcade-imperfect for the win: quality 'interpretations'?

Post by FinalBaton »

kitten waaaaaaaaaat. You'd never seent Commando? :O

was about time you rectified that :mrgreen:

it's indeed a YUGE influence on those kinda games. Along with the Rambo movies. And others too



"Movies that were very influential to games" is actually a very interesting subject of it's own


It's pretty crazy how much Alien influenced games. And equally crazy how much Blade Runner and Terminator both influenced anime(and games too).
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Re: arcade-imperfect for the win: quality 'interpretations'?

Post by BIL »

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Re: arcade-imperfect for the win: quality 'interpretations'?

Post by kitten »

the challenge stages are good stuff! sometimes a little too specific in what they're asking you to do, and rightfully divorced from the still-relatively-retained marathon pacing of the main game because of that. kind of amazing how much nuance there is to the swinging and how well the designers understood that. the game is narrowly in my top 25, i strongly vouch for it. super hard is very rarely played by most people and was anticipated by the game's producer (ben judd, perhaps best known as being the voice of phoenix wright, but a genuinely diehard enthusiast of bionic commando) to be beaten by under 1,000 people. i think i was the first to do it, tracking achievements? maybe the second? i can't quite remember. regardless, it's some tuff stuff, but veers in modern directions of design with expecting to kill you many times before you nail down the perfect execution - perhaps better to treat stages as individual challenges rather than part of an overarching game, at that point.

despite how much i loved the first (and the series, in general) and how i went and beat super hard & all the challenge rooms on both ps3 and 360 just for fun, i didn't even finish the 2nd. it is that bad. immediately worse stages, introduction of backtracking for upgrades, etc. they also give you a jump button and fuck with the excellent control scheme. didn't care for it a damn bit.

edit: oh shiiiit, and i forgot that BCR2 was one of the first capcom digital games to use some seriously bullshit DRM on console, too. that whole thing was incredibly dour! except spencer's new dad mustache, which i found affable.

- - - - - - - - -

and, yes, me having not watched commando is indeed baffling. me and my two friends were screaming with cheers when arnold ripped a phone booth out of the ground and shook the guy in it around like he was mixing a drink!

i've not watched predator in ages and haven't seem rambo II in a while, either. might want to rectify that!
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Re: arcade-imperfect for the win: quality 'interpretations'?

Post by Stevens »

Rearmed is amazing. I say this as someone who has put a lot of time into it.

Rearmed 2 can go suck a bag of dicks. Cash grab.
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Re: arcade-imperfect for the win: quality 'interpretations'?

Post by BIL »

How does SMS/Mark III Bubble Bobble cope with regards to sprite breakup? Is it still playable under extreme sprite load?

I've always been interested in this port, and it seems to have a sterling rep, but I noticed the breakup gets a bit intrusive from the get-go... granted, it was only when I deliberately bubbled up a storm, far beyond anything necessary to ace the earlier stages. I'm just wondering about later stages that might be more crowded by default.
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Re: arcade-imperfect for the win: quality 'interpretations'?

Post by Herr Schatten »

BIL wrote:How does SMS/Mark III Bubble Bobble cope with regards to sprite breakup? Is it still playable under extreme sprite load?

I've always been interested in this port, and it seems to have a sterling rep, but I noticed the breakup gets a bit instrusive from the get-go... granted, it was only when I deliberately bubbled up a storm, far beyond anything necessary to ace the earlier stages. I'm just wondering about later stages that might be more crowded by default.
There‘s a fair bit of flicker and quite some slowdown when things get crowded, but the coders seem to have gone to some lengths to keep the game playable even when the hardware is struggling to keep up. Granted, I haven‘t played it through, but I think I‘ve seen around three quarters of it and things never got unbearably bad.

Sidenote regarding Taito games on the Master System: According to SMSpower, only Rastan, Bubble Bobble, Rainbow Islands, Operation Wolf and Chase H.Q. were developed in-house at Taito, while stuff like Sagaia has been outsourced. I know Rainbow Islands is supposed to be glitchy as hell, and there seem to be different opinions regarding the quality of Operation Wolf. Anyone have experience with the Chase H.Q. port? I never cared for the game one bit regardless of format, but I‘d be interested in hearing opinions on it anyway.
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Re: arcade-imperfect for the win: quality 'interpretations'?

Post by BIL »

Thanks, I'll definitely give it a shot knowing Taito themselves were onboard. :smile: On MD they could be inconsistent, but the more acclaimed stuff does tend to deliver.

I've heard Sagaia was ported by Natsume, always a way to get my interest. No experience whatsoever with the port itself, though - the MD one has kept me pretty content for now.
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Re: arcade-imperfect for the win: quality 'interpretations'?

Post by Marc »

Stevens wrote:Rearmed is amazing. I say this as someone who has put a lot of time into it.

Rearmed 2 can go suck a bag of dicks. Cash grab.
Ah, right. Thought I remembered decent reviews, but the one 8 played was utter fucking trash, just realised it's the second one from the Capcom digital comp on 360. May give the original a bash then.
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Re: arcade-imperfect for the win: quality 'interpretations'?

Post by TransatlanticFoe »

Natsume also did the SMS port of Special Criminal Investigation, the sequel to Chase HQ. It's a pretty awful port and seems to be mostly a reskin of SMS Chase HQ. Neither are particularly good or even interesting, very stripped back compared to the arcade - Outrun is far superior.

But yeah, they did a great job with Sagaia. Alloy Lantern, Leadain and Grand Octopus have awful slowdown and half the levels have been cut. Otherwise it's Darius II and well worth a go.
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Re: arcade-imperfect for the win: quality 'interpretations'?

Post by BrianC »

TransatlanticFoe wrote:Natsume also did the SMS port of Special Criminal Investigation, the sequel to Chase HQ. It's a pretty awful port and seems to be mostly a reskin of SMS Chase HQ.
Huh? It's definitely inferior to the arcade, but it's definitely not a reskin of SMS Chase HQ (which was from different developers). Sprites, enemies, track layout, etc. Not to mention the ability to shoot.
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Re: arcade-imperfect for the win: quality 'interpretations'?

Post by TransatlanticFoe »

I don't mean it's identical but it has the same kind of squat little car sprites, tunnel sequences, half-screen status display (at the top rather than bottom) and trackside objects. If you took the shooting part out, it'd look like a Chase HQ hack rather than a different game. Taito didn't cover themselves with glory in the Chase HQ port and Natsume did a worse job with the sequel (in which the layout is so simple you never need use the brake).
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Re: arcade-imperfect for the win: quality 'interpretations'?

Post by Mortificator »

A number of games from the first arcade generation were retooled for 2600, generally for the better.

Air-Sea Battle (retooled from Anti-Aircraft)
Circus Atari (retooled from Circus)
Combat (retooled mix of Tank and Jet Fighter)
Dodge 'Em (retooled from Head-On)
Night Driver
Outlaw (retooled from Gun Fight)
Sky Diver
Super Breakout
Yars' Revenge (retooled from Star Castle, and probably the shining example of success)

BrianC also covered the 2600 interpretations of some golden age games, of which Jr. Pac-Man is the most notable.

And while most of the famous Nintendo conversions have been mentioned too, there's still Punch-Out NES and Super Punch-Out SNES, which are way better than Punch-Out arcade and Super Punch-Out arcade. The NES game alone has as many opponents as the arcade games combined.
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Re: arcade-imperfect for the win: quality 'interpretations'?

Post by Obiwanshinobi »

San Francisco Rush 2049 took a long route to the PC, but It's the only version playable with two analogue sticks, which makes it the winner in my book (shame about its fixed 640x480 resolution; not that console ports offer any higher). For the same reason I'm fairly happy with Battle Gear 2&3* and OutRun 2 home versions.

*) Arguably imperfect with disabled online.

I would like to hear someone's unbiased verdict on Samba de Amigo Wii port. By someone who did give it a proper chance.
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Re: arcade-imperfect for the win: quality 'interpretations'?

Post by kitten »

Obiwanshinobi wrote:I would like to hear someone's unbiased verdict on Samba de Amigo Wii port. By someone who did give it a proper chance.
i bought it for five dollars at a used bookstore and subsequently spent two hours with the lights turned off, bashing the light-up maracas on the floor and watching the pretty colors while having a chat with my friend on skype.

i forgot to play the game. this was... 8 years ago.
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Re: arcade-imperfect for the win: quality 'interpretations'?

Post by EmperorIng »

WelshMegalodon wrote:
EmperorIng wrote:If we are talking about arcade imperfect, than the PCE Tower of Druaga is about as imperfect as they can come: in that they took all the original game's imperfections and made them into a good game! A great game even.
You're the only individual I've seen to vouch for the quality of this conversion, other than Kino in a post from two years ago. (HG101 doesn't count.) Sounds interesting!

Also mentioned by Kino is the PC Engine port of Marchen Maze, which was more different from the arcade than I remember it being... I believe kitten recently expressed her approval for those tweaks and claimed it improved the game.

Speaking of Namco, would Marvel Land MD and Xevious: Fardraut Densetsu also qualify? I seem to recall a few people liking the former, and a handful namedropping the latter.
I'll always trumpet the virtues of Tower of Druaga's PCE remake. The game has just about everything I want from the concept: lots of enemies with different tactics needed for them, strange pseudo-bump combat/pac-man RPG, secrets to engage me and force me to figure things out (or die), and the convenience of not having a run royally screwed due to stiff controls, walking speed, or bastardly RNG. Adding to its own charming quirks like shield positioning being dependent on whether your sword is drawn or not... So much in such an early game! It's not a game I've ever attempted to 1CC, but it's quite satisfying.

I haven't played the original Marchen Maze, but the PCE port is fun. I think just about any time you change an isometric platformer into a top-down one you are going to get better results, ha. The game is deceptively cruel with its conceit of enemy shots knocking you all over the place.

I don't know how imperfect Marvel Land is from the arcade in terms of stage layout, but it added features that make the game more enjoyable: namely the fun new boss fights instead of them all being Rock-Paper-Scissors duels. You lose the cool-looking roller-coaster visual effects, but the game is solid through-and-through.

Xevious: Fardraut Densetsu has (according to Perikles) a near-perfect arcade adaptation. The Fardraut mode has some neat ideas (as it is really its own game), but it frustrates more than anything else. The game has a lot of sloppy oversight: enemies belching bullets onto the field, with the expectation that you tank them with a randomly-dropped (!!!) shield icon, or destroy them early. I cleared it, but by the end of the game my patience was at its end, especially with the final checkpoints. Really, it's a dice roll: get the shield and you'll survive the last boss.
WelshMegalodon wrote:According to HG101, Dragon Buster FC adds new items and an experience bar.

Has anyone here played the original arcade game? All I know about it is that its flyer has nice art and that it's occasionally credited as being the first game with a life bar (even though Hydlide had one first).
I have played the arcade original on Namco's Museum Vol. 2. It definitely has some strange charm, but it is a clunky and frustrating game. It solidifies Namco's reputation as a lover of air-juggles long before Heiachi terrorized the Tekken tournaments. Enemy mid-bosses will effortless fling your character up and keep him there for loads of damage, leaving you helpless (something the NES game appears to do). You'd better kill them first! The game is a bit better when you learn how to stab (holding down and attack as you fall, IIRC), which does more damage, but some of the mazes are chock-full of enemies waiting to deplete your life bar. I'd be curious if Dragon Buster was improved on any of its ports. According to videogameden, there do seem to be plenty of updates/changes, but the site's reviewers can be ambivalent on their merit or quality which makes me reserve judgment. The whole game got rebooted into a (imo) middling beatemup/hack-n-slash Dragon Valor on the PS1...
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Re: arcade-imperfect for the win: quality 'interpretations'?

Post by Turrican »

A serious post (I'm not trolling): three pages of thread, and a careful reading of another thread,
the excellent 16-Bit Arcade Port Archaeology,
and one seriously begins to wonder if the opposite question would have been easier / quicker to answer. Like: "Arcade games that AGAINST ALL ODDS managed to NOT BE IMPROVED in subsequent ports, often made by the same developers who had months or years to rethink and better the original formula".
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Re: arcade-imperfect for the win: quality 'interpretations'?

Post by SuperDeadite »

Cotton for X68000

Unlike what hardcore gaming will tell you, this is not a direct port of the arcade game.
It is more of a remix with a lot of new content. Sprites were all redone, stage layouts
have been changed with a lot of extra parallax. There are 2 brand new bosses exclusive
to this version, and the returning bosses have brand new attacks and surprises not found
anywhere else. It's a real treat, especially if you have spent a lot of time with the arcade
original.

And for those that want an extreme challenge, go to the options and change the difficulty
to "You Do." Just try it, it's fun. :twisted:
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Re: arcade-imperfect for the win: quality 'interpretations'?

Post by BrianC »

SuperDeadite wrote:Cotton for X68000

Unlike what hardcore gaming will tell you, this is not a direct port of the arcade game.
It is more of a remix with a lot of new content. Sprites were all redone, stage layouts
have been changed with a lot of extra parallax. There are 2 brand new bosses exclusive
to this version, and the returning bosses have brand new attacks and surprises not found
anywhere else. It's a real treat, especially if you have spent a lot of time with the arcade
original.

And for those that want an extreme challenge, go to the options and change the difficulty
to "You Do." Just try it, it's fun. :twisted:
Wasn't the PCE CD version also a remix? Are they similar?
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Re: arcade-imperfect for the win: quality 'interpretations'?

Post by Mortificator »

The PS1 version's an arrangement too. Now I feel like comparing the three.
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Re: arcade-imperfect for the win: quality 'interpretations'?

Post by orange808 »

The best arcade port on the 2600 is Defender II / Stargate.
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Re: arcade-imperfect for the win: quality 'interpretations'?

Post by SuperDeadite »

BrianC wrote:
SuperDeadite wrote:Cotton for X68000

Unlike what hardcore gaming will tell you, this is not a direct port of the arcade game.
It is more of a remix with a lot of new content. Sprites were all redone, stage layouts
have been changed with a lot of extra parallax. There are 2 brand new bosses exclusive
to this version, and the returning bosses have brand new attacks and surprises not found
anywhere else. It's a real treat, especially if you have spent a lot of time with the arcade
original.

And for those that want an extreme challenge, go to the options and change the difficulty
to "You Do." Just try it, it's fun. :twisted:
Wasn't the PCE CD version also a remix? Are they similar?
PCE CD version is pretty much a straight port with Redbook Music, and a few downgrades due to the
PCE hardware. It's quite faithful except for a few accidental exploits, like the safe spot with the dragon boss. (I have the System16 pcb, and have 1cc'd all of them). To this day I wonder how the X68K version came to be, as Victor (Electronic Arts Japan) really doesn't seem capable of creating something this good on their own.

The PS1 version is just crap though imo. :)

My vids are always 100% real hardware:
System16: https://youtu.be/UaR17WpAGhE?t=6m6s
PCE-CD: https://youtu.be/B0D8WIheEwU?t=6m13s
X68000: https://youtu.be/qEkMzIlskmg?t=20m32s (Same stage as the above 2)
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Re: arcade-imperfect for the win: quality 'interpretations'?

Post by azmun »

Herr Schatten wrote:What's the verdict on NES Dragon Sprit? Port, 'port', or something else entirely? More importantly: Is it worth playing?
I'm a huge fan and quite partial to Dragon Spirit. Sadly never got to play the arcade so my experience is limited to the emulated version in Namco Museum (PS2), faithful PS1 port (Namco Museum Vol.5), PC Engine's amazing conversion (given the limited size) and Famicom port.

The developers did an incredible job with Aratanaru Densetsu. It's a pseudo sequel maintaining and keeping with the original's feel and look while making some improvements. The pace is faster, there are more and varied power ups and maidens/fairies aided you at the end of stages as incentive to keep your Dragon's power toned down.

Definitely worth playing and right up there with my top four shooting games on FC along with Gradius II, Crisis Force and Summer Carnival '92 Recca.
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Re: arcade-imperfect for the win: quality 'interpretations'?

Post by kitten »

azmun wrote:Definitely worth playing and right up there with my top four shooting games on FC along with Gradius II, Crisis Force and Summer Carnival '92 Recca.
i wouldn't place it (dragon spirit nes/fc) quite that highly, but i definitely agree that it's quite good. it's a really good pick-up because both the nes and fc versions are super cheap! it's really breezy, even for a famicom shooter, and i think i ended up 1cc'ing it my very first attempt. i neglected putting it in my earlier posts because i've never played, watched, or even heard much about the arcade version for comparison. i have the namco museum ps1 disc that it's on, however, as well as the pc engine version. been meaning to play both, but just haven't gotten around to them, yet. haven't played dragon saber, either, which i believe has a pce version and is also on one of those namco museum discs.

though not an arcade port, if we're bringing up quality famicom shooters, i'm going to take this opportunity to plug battle formula, which is my utmost favorite famicom shooter and one of my all-time favorite games. still haven't bothered with its dastardly 2nd loop, but damn if i haven't run through the first over & over for a brief excursion of pure joy.

keep meaning to do another post for this thread with post 16-bit stuff, but i'm too laaaazyyyy.
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Re: arcade-imperfect for the win: quality 'interpretations'?

Post by BrianC »

kitten wrote: still haven't bothered with its dastardly 2nd loop, but damn if i haven't run through the first over & over for a brief excursion of pure joy.
Is it as dastardly as this guy?
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Re: arcade-imperfect for the win: quality 'interpretations'?

Post by BIL »

Depends, was Dick's ride outfitted with enough revenge bullets to make killing him as problematic as letting him live? :mrgreen:
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Re: arcade-imperfect for the win: quality 'interpretations'?

Post by WelshMegalodon »

I somehow managed to forget the remarkably fun Ghost Chaser Densei.
Skykid wrote:Despite having fewer characters than the arcade original, it has elements to the combat that are actually preferable, particularly accessibility of your move set on the pad. There's no home scrolling beater quite as rich for furious combo mix ups, the game is plenty limber.
Skykid wrote:Initially Ghost Chaser looks underwhelming and you won't know its full range of moves until there's a good deal of experimentation applied: but once the secrets are tapped it becomes glorious, moreso on hard setting.
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Re: arcade-imperfect for the win: quality 'interpretations'?

Post by Sumez »

Just came across this old American ad on Reddit:

https://imgur.com/gallery/4ps6y

Notice Black Tiger listed! I had no idea an NES port was planned - I wonder how far along development was? Would have been really interesting to see what an NES take on that game would have looked like.

edit: Only revealed screenshot as far as I can tell: https://www.flickr.com/photos/lostlevels/7045322533
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Re: arcade-imperfect for the win: quality 'interpretations'?

Post by BIL »

Aw, it looks great. The artfully compressed-for-FC style reminds me a bit of the second Red Arremer game.

And geeze, old catalogue ads like that take me back. A goldmine of classic Nintendo, Capcom and Konami, alongside a fair bit of total crap. :mrgreen:

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Re: arcade-imperfect for the win: quality 'interpretations'?

Post by BubbaMc »

Silkworm on the Amiga. Sound effects are killer!
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