arcade-imperfect for the win: quality 'interpretations'?

[GaijinPunch]

Ikari Warriors for the FC/NES is a perplexing one. 4x as long as the arcade, with no built in continue, and quite hard. Pretty impressive. Dogousouken / Ikari II I also played quite a bit. I recall the difficulty being reeled in.

Senjou no Ookami / Commando for FC/NES comes to mind as well.

[kitten]

forgot a relatively interesting one -

i've not played the arcade version of dragon unit, so i can't vouch for if the fc/nes version is actually better or not, but it's highly different! i enjoyed it a fair bit and would recommend it with a few caveats, too. athena, themselves, totally outdid it with their shortly thereafter sword master, which is essentially a much better version of dragon unit, but dragon unit retains enough individuality to maintain worth a play if you like that game and its strange kind of 1v1 footsies combat. it's a little unpolished and rough, but there's not much like it.

also, if you're inclined to check out sword master and haven't, yet, make sure you get the fc version. both versions have a bugged double jump that is hard to pull off (try turning turbo on for some mitigation), but the nes version (on top of being much more expensive) is even worse about how bugged it is and makes it nearly impossible to complete one of the mid-game stages.

[BIL]

There's something else to note about FC Sword Master, not sure if it's on NES too... resetting the console, or returning to st1 after a Game Over, won't reset your EXP. I was thinking "hey I'm getting the hang of this!" then I noticed the bug and went "Sheeeit." Gotta hard reset / power off to start from zero.

[kitten]

this happens in dragon unit fc, too, iirc. pretty sure it's not a bug but a deliberate feature. i've never beaten either game without dying (gotten real close with sword master, but the last level is brutal), but find it pretty satisfying to do it within the allotted lives (which, iirc, are also the continues) before you're forced to start over.

[BIL]

Interesting, hadn't considered that angle at all. Would be quite progressive for its time, if so. Honestly I can't tell with Athena... like trap15 once said, their hits (BioMetal SFC, JJ Squawkers AC) are blindingly brilliant, their misses are... rather on the other extreme. Respect @ UNDEAD_TAMA for his rad graphical designs... Sword Master's st2 zombie (walker variant) is perhaps my favourite VG take on the monster. Brutal pathos!

[kitten]

i'd be real curious to see a translation of sword master fc's manual to confirm whether it appears the xp thing was deliberate or not. two games in a row and i've got to assume it is, but it's possible it's not. i've spent a decent amount of time with sword master, and it feels like it was balanced around you dying a couple of times on your way to the end, but meant to be completed within the allotted lives (i feel the exp retainment between total restarts is for casual players getting the hang of it or one-and-done types). once you hit the final stage without having died once, you're so weak upon getting there that it requires some seriously judicious and lengthy shield usage to survive. die once or twice and you'll get an extra level up or two on repeating the checkpoints, which grants more HP & extra damage.

never got into biometal sfc (i've only got the snes version, and fuuuuuck that soundtrack), just didn't dig how it worked. really, really want to play jj squawkers sometime, though! i admittedly really like sword master, even though i concur with your assessment of how it's most efficiently played.

[BIL]

BioMetal is a game about a shield for smashing skulls. It might give the impression you're meant to hang back and block bullets but FUUUCK NO - you'll die a slow, miserable death. You want to frisbee-bludgeon through the hordes like Capn' MURICA parachuting into a NeoNazi backyard BBQ. Constant counterattack by way of Murder/Retrieve/Repeat is the idea; obviously your energy is not unlimited, putting a critical wrench in proceedings.

Uniquely violent, visceral STG that's not really about shooting, which I suspect misleads some. Take away the shield and it's certainly no great shakes, but then I could say that about Mars Matrix and any other STG designed around the mechanic.

And yes, the SNES soundtrack can eat shit - the SFC one is quite lovely in its Zuntata-esque melancholic weirdpop warblings. Real shame, though it did inspire Perikles to give us the quality VGM term "Inverse Biometallism" for Western soundtracks that blow away their JP counterparts.

[Sumez]

I love the US BioMetal soundtrack :\

[BIL]

I THOUGHT YOU WERE COOL SUMEZ (・｀W´・)

FRIENDSHIP WITH SUMEZ OVER
NOW ATHEISTGOD1999 IS MY FRIEND

Naw it happens. Kollision prefers SNES too IIRC.

[Sumez]

2 Unlimited are cool! ;___;



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjTATa8JKIQ

[BIL]

Hey nice boobs & international eat pussy sign :O

Yeah you're right fuck SFC SNES is better.

FRIENDSHIP WITH SUMEZ RESTORED



NOW SUMEZ AND ATHEISTGOD1999 ARE BOTH MY FRIENDS

[EmperorIng]

the tower of druaga - screen proportions are retooled slightly for fc, and there's the addition of an entire extra quest that makes everything uniquely different and more often than not quite a bit harder. keep in mind that its bonus quest is different from later ports of the game, though if you want to go full-on with your masochism, you should check out the ps1 port (arcade perfect for 1st quest, iirc) via namco museum - holy shit does its extra quest have some hilarious meanness. druaga is not what i would call a good game by any stretch of the imagination, but it's a pretty formative classic and i give it a genuine recommendation.

Maybe we can argue about whether or not the PC Engine is 8bit or 16bit, but I feel compelled to mention its Tower of Druaga in light of this. If we are talking about arcade imperfect, than the PCE Tower of Druaga is about as imperfect as they can come: in that they took all the original game's imperfections and made them into a good game! A great game even.

Now, Druaga's action/adventure pac-man conceit is realized, thanks to redrawn/bigger enemies, faster default moving speed, experience points to find to boost various stats, no mean conceits like losing your pickax forever if you run out of charges or strike an outer wall, more responsive controls... AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, hints before each level to tell you how to activate the treasure! IIRC the game was handled by a number of the same staff, including Endo, who had worked on the original and essentially made it into a far more palatable game. The PCE Druaga is one of my favorite games - especially as it has an English patch which allows you to play and figure things out with its hints - but don't worry Druaga fans, while there is an extra hard quest, which still doles out hints, there is an even HARDER quest that gives no hints so you can flail around to your hearts' content!

[Stevens]

Ikari Warriors for the FC/NES is a perplexing one. 4x as long as the arcade, with no built in continue, and quite hard. Pretty impressive. Dogousouken / Ikari II I also played quite a bit. I recall the difficulty being reeled in.

Senjou no Ookami / Commando for FC/NES comes to mind as well.

Ikari II also had a shop system and life bars didn't it?

Did anyone every finish the first one? I know there is a 4th stage with robots and shit but I could only ever get there with stage select.

[Herr Schatten]

Lots of great suggestions to dig through already. Keep'em coming.

i'm guessing when the thread title says "8-bit" it means "famicom & sms," so i'll avoid tossing a bunch of pc engine stuff in on technicality.

Nah, I just put that in to make clear I don't want to discuss the nuances of pixelation in the explosions of SAT DDP or any other minor things that keep a fairly serviceable port from being arcade-perfect. It's 'ports' I'm specifically looking for, and those just were most prevalent during the 8-bit days, naturally. Discussion of stuff from the 16-bit generation onwards is perfectly on-topic, though, so feel free to bring up any examples you can think of. Thread title changed accordingly.

Anyone else like Rastan on SMS?

Very much. I feel this is one of the games (one other example being NES Rygar) where the developers of the 'port' realized that the arcade original, for all its lovely premises, was in fact a bit crap, so they tried to save what they can.

Taito's track record on the Master System is actually very good, imo. The hugely expanded port of Bubble Bobble with twice the number of levels is particularly impressive. Shame Konami never developed for the system, I'd have loved to see what they'd done with the hardware.

Regarding other SMS games that have been mentioned: Quartet has been on my want list for ages, but somehow I never got around actually acquiring it. SMS Enduro Racer is actually one of my favourites on the system, especially the jp version that doesn't have half its stages cut.


What's the verdict on NES Dragon Sprit? Port, 'port', or something else entirely? More importantly: Is it worth playing?

[BIL]

Now that 16bit stuff is okayed, I'll heartily second Slap Fight MD and Senjou no Okami II MD. Their arcade modes are more or less straight ports, but the Arrange modes are some of the generation's most extensive and generous. SFMD's titular arrangement adds a completely new set of stages, and a bomb mechanic that imparts the Xevious-reserved arcade game with almost Compile-esque flex.

Spoiler

^ addictive! Also sports an entirely new soundtrack from Yuzo Koshiro, very Gradius III-esque at bringing both hummable melodies and stirring drama. Also on the audio front, some rad voice samples... announcer is like Bob from DonPachi played totally straight. You will yelp "YESSIR MOTHERFUCKER SIR, LETS DO THIS" when he barks the order to "TERMINATE THE FLAGSHIP!"

Senjou's Arrange mode is a lengthy and utterly hardcore topdown shooting ARPG - all new stages, exclusive enemies and hazards, lots of secrets to find and characters to level up amid nonstop, arcade-tough action.

Spoiler

^ excellent technique or be dead. Hard mode is already quite the handful and there's even a secret XTREEM mode that's deliberately geared to drive away all but the most masochistic. (hold ABC and hit Start when entering Arrange mode - code is revealed in the default HS table, classy!) And just like SFMD it includes a completely new OST, a damn good one too. Get Capcom Generation 4 (PS1) for an AC-perfect port with TATE and 3P co-op, then get the MD cart for this.

[Skykid]

I seem to remember MD ESWAT being an improvement over the AC original.

[drauch]

Isn't Karnov a bit different in some respects?

[WelshMegalodon]

Quite why they attempted the arcade version on the SMS but made the MD version an entirely different game I will never know.

Even stranger is the fact that there are at least two other instances of this occurring, namely with ESWAT and the non-Sega title Juju Densetsu.

meikyu jima/kickle cubicle

I've never seen anyone even mention the arcade original. How is it?

also, i don't think it was a sequel, but an adaptation of the manga, which as far as i know, has still never been properly translated. you can still look through the manga's pictures and see it's the same story, though.

Grammar fail. I meant to label Makaijima as the sequel and Strider NES as the unrelated game. Whoops!

If we are talking about arcade imperfect, than the PCE Tower of Druaga is about as imperfect as they can come: in that they took all the original game's imperfections and made them into a good game! A great game even.

You're the only individual I've seen to vouch for the quality of this conversion, other than Kino in a post from two years ago. (HG101 doesn't count.) Sounds interesting!

Also mentioned by Kino is the PC Engine port of Marchen Maze, which was more different from the arcade than I remember it being... I believe kitten recently expressed her approval for those tweaks and claimed it improved the game.

Speaking of Namco, would Marvel Land MD and Xevious: Fardraut Densetsu also qualify? I seem to recall a few people liking the former, and a handful namedropping the latter.

Taito's track record on the Master System is actually very good, imo. The hugely expanded port of Bubble Bobble with twice the number of levels is particularly impressive. Shame Konami never developed for the system, I'd have loved to see what they'd done with the hardware.

I dunno, Final Bubble Bobble is a Top 5 Master System title for sure, but the same can't be said for Operation Wolf and Space Gun, and a few members here have expressed distaste for the conversions of Rainbow Islands and The NewZealand Story. Sagaia is... technically impressive, but full of slowdown.

One can only dream of what Konami could have done with the Master System. The closest things we have to that reality are a handful of unlicensed MSX ports and an impractical but highly impressive homebrew port of GOFER no Yabou's first stage. Oh, and Master of Darkness, of course.

What's the verdict on NES Dragon Sprit? Port, 'port', or something else entirely? More importantly: Is it worth playing?

'Port' without a doubt, and a very popular one at that.

Let's see, Super Hang-On MD was another home conversion with an exclusive mode that included a shop system.

Galaxy Force SMS did the game a favor by removing the time limit, though it's still not an exemplary game.

EDIT: Missed this:

Discussion of stuff from the 16-bit generation onwards is perfectly on-topic, though, so feel free to bring up any examples you can think of.

inb4 WORLD TOUR MODE

EDIT: F-1 Spirit and the first MSX Gradius also made their way onto the Master System.

[BrianC]

The 2600 versions of Ms. and Jr. Pac-Man were handled by the same company as the AC versions and it shows. Both have different mazes with similarities to the AC mazes. While not from the original developers, the Tengen NES Ms. Pac-Man (by the same person who made AC Crystal Castles) and the Lynx Ms. Pac-Man are notable for including extra modes and mazes.

Crystal Castles is another quality 2600 "port" with different levels from the arcade, but all the important elements intact.

Rampage and Xenophobe for the lynx both have some nice extras not in the arcade version.

While it was a computer game before it came to the arcades, the Tengen NES Tetris was from some of the same designers as the AC version and has similar physics, though has the option for handicapping similar to the Nintendo version's B-Type mode instead of the goal based gameplay of the AC. It also has 2 players vs and team modes.

[Sumez]

Isn't Karnov a bit different in some respects?

I was sorely disappointed by Karnov's NES port. Most people recognise Karnov as a NES game, so I was intrigued to get it, but holy crap is it broken, and possibly the most genuinely buggy NES game I have seen. I always wondered why so many people see Karnov as kusoge, and this is apparently why.

[TransatlanticFoe]

Woah there SMS Operation Wolf is a solid port. Space Gun... well that'd be on topic for significantly different to the arcade if it weren't ponderous and generally awful.

[BrianC]

Isn't Karnov a bit different in some respects?

I was sorely disappointed by Karnov's NES port. Most people recognise Karnov as a NES game, so I was intrigued to get it, but holy crap is it broken, and possibly the most genuinely buggy NES game I have seen. I always wondered why so many people see Karnov as kusoge, and this is apparently why.

The FC version has some extra cutscenes that the NES version is missing, but given Data East's track record with NES, I wouldn't be surprised if it was still buggy.

[GaijinPunch]

Ikari Warriors for the FC/NES is a perplexing one. 4x as long as the arcade, with no built in continue, and quite hard. Pretty impressive. Dogousouken / Ikari II I also played quite a bit. I recall the difficulty being reeled in.

Senjou no Ookami / Commando for FC/NES comes to mind as well.

Ikari II also had a shop system and life bars didn't it?

Did anyone every finish the first one? I know there is a 4th stage with robots and shit but I could only ever get there with stage select.

Yes, I did with like a million credits. Took a couple of hours at least.

I was sorely disappointed by Karnov's NES port. Most people recognise Karnov as a NES game, so I was intrigued to get it, but holy crap is it broken, and possibly the most genuinely buggy NES game I have seen. I always wondered why so many people see Karnov as kusoge, and this is apparently why.

The FC version has some extra cutscenes that the NES version is missing, but given Data East's track record with NES, I wouldn't be surprised if it was still buggy.

Going WAY back, but I recall arcade pics on the back of the box. What a bunch of assholes.

Anyone else like Rastan on SMS?

Very much. I feel this is one of the games (one other example being NES Rygar) where the developers of the 'port' realized that the arcade original, for all its lovely premises, was in fact a bit crap, so they tried to save what they can.

Harsh -- I love the arcade version of Rastan. One of my all time faves.

[WelshMegalodon]

According to HG101, Dragon Buster FC adds new items and an experience bar.

Has anyone here played the original arcade game? All I know about it is that its flyer has nice art and that it's occasionally credited as being the first game with a life bar (even though Hydlide had one first).

[orange808]

SNES Smash TV turbo mode.

My only disappointment is that the game allows contestants to reach the Pleasure Dome. I always liked the idea of the empty promise in the arcade machine.

[kitten]

Nah, I just put that in to make clear I don't want to discuss the nuances of pixelation in the explosions of SAT DDP or any other minor things that keep a fairly serviceable port from being arcade-perfect. It's 'ports' I'm specifically looking for, and those just were most prevalent during the 8-bit days, naturally. Discussion of stuff from the 16-bit generation onwards is perfectly on-topic, though, so feel free to bring up any examples you can think of. Thread title changed accordingly.

bit of an aside, here, but i usually like to consider the pc engine the last of the 8-bit, rather than the first of the 16-bit gen. most of its games still have pretty famicom-esque sensibilities, and i mean, it technically is 8-bit. most people lump it in with 16-bit and i did until delving into it further, but i kind of consider it more like the real "super" famicom. the actual sfc feels really far away from its predecessor in terms of design sensibilities & general output.

anyway! time for some "ports" from that gen that exceeded or at least interestingly diverged from arcade:

Gradius 3 (SFC/SNES) - really obvious choice, here! i've not played enough of the arcade version to dive into all of the differences, but this one was heavily retooled, rebalanced, and is basically an entirely different game. it's also widely considered to be the better of the two, although i'm sure there are people on here who might contest that. its difficulty is heavily reduced, and you kind of want to bump it up to its hidden arcade difficulty after a few practice runs to get the real meat out of it (complete with silly post-game message for completing that!). it is a bit famous for its extreme problems with slowdown, but it at least gracefully comes out of it, versus something like super r-type which will switch you right back to full speed and have you accidentally crash your damn ship into a wall.

Super R-Type (SFC/SNES) - despite just mentioning the problems with its slowdown, i'm tossing in a rec for this one, too. please note that this isn't reaaaallly a port, but it's a (from what i remember, relatively even) mix of all-new levels and levels from r-type 2 (not the original). its checkpoint system restoring you to the start of a level is often made out to be some sort of highly sadistic & turbo hateful change, but this is of course by tourist dipshits so scared to death of losing progress in a game that they don't realize it makes it easier. restarting from level begin is a godsend and lets you get powered up before the more punishing second halves of stages! quite honestly one of the friendlier to learn games in the series, though definitely not one of the best. i'm not a big fan of the original r-type 2 (though the first r-type is one of my favorite games) and find it way too strict on memorization - this might be a better way for some to experience a few of its stages.

Magic Sword (SFC/SNES) - another one i've barely touched the arcade version of, but most people tend to report the sfc/snes version as being a bit easier to digest and play around with. i'm mostly sticking this one in here because i have a crush on minakuchi engineering, who ported this and did the excellent bionic commando gb and rockman world v. not a lot of their identity stamped here and it seems mostly faithful to arcade, but i've been meaning to play more of both to get a further grasp on their design sense.

Gussun Oyoyo (Series - Multi) - haven't touched this, but it's a pretty common favorite over in japan and doesn't get discussed a lot, over here. had a particularly good game center cx episode that made me pick up the first sfc game, which i've not gotten around to, yet (just got it a week or so ago). the giant bomb article has some deets. i think most of these installments are pt cheap!

TMNT IV: Turtles in Time (SFC/SNES) - plenty of experience with the sfc/snes game, none with the arcade game. however, i hear a lot of reports about the difficulty being significantly rebalanced (lots of people claim the arcade version is incredibly tough, while the snes version is a pretty joyful little breeze) and it coming out a relatively new and much more loved game in the process. make sure you turn auto-run off in the options before playing this! and maybe switch to the comic book character colors if you're doing the (rightfully much-loved) co-op mode, as it makes it easier to distinguish the characters. also keep in mind this game is all about spacing to do chain grabs for much of the levels - you get bonus points and therefore quicker earning of extends by throwing. it has a timed challenge mode for a reason! worth mentioning here that the mega drive's hyperstone heist is apparently a lot like this, but with its own unique mix of stages.

Area 88/UN Squadron (SFC/SNES) - never touched and barely even looked at the arcade game, ran through the snes game quite a few times. generally considered to be tremendously superior to its arcade version.

Altered Beast/Juuoki (MD/Genesis) - i haven't played the arcade version in years, but man, it always struck me as not feeling/looking/sounding just right, and i distinctly feel like it was something other than nostalgia talking, here. it's mostly faithful, and i'm not sure of all the differences, but the home version does feature some interesting options for health/difficulty choices and looping. it's actually a pretty solid little game, though it's admittedly rough and simplistic. perhaps worth noting a lot of early sega ports on here feature some notable differences or rebalancing - golden axe has an entire extra ending stage, for example! many people tend to consider the MD versions of these games more essential.

Forgotten Worlds (PCE-CD) - considered by many to have the best soundtrack of the bunch and by some to the best version of the game. not heavily different, but a tad bit truncated and pooossiiibly better for it? the pce is largely pretty damn faithful about its arcade ports. have yet to devote any significant time to this port since i went through hell (getting a generic 3-button and finding out it didn't work, getting the official 6 button and finding it out it didn't work) getting an official avenue 3 button, and then butchering rubber contacts from defunct snes controllers to replace the torn ones in the avenue 3 button i got (i had to actually cut and shave them to fit things just right! intimately stressful!). i finally can play the damn thing with a suitable control set-up and am pretty happy with my rubber contact cannibalization, but i've yet to get around to it.

Saigo no Nindo/Ninja Spirit, Mr. Heli no Daibouken, Probably Some Other Irem Ports (PCE) - the two that are mentioned by name are both rebalanced with a special pc engine mode for home play, but are otherwise mostly faithful (if still, from what i'm told, slightly easier) ports. many people prefer the home versions.

Marchen Maze (PCE) - have yet to play the arcade version, but this one is significantly retooled, pretty much a new game. significantly more developed later stages and entirely different game perspective. seems to be considered harder than the arcade version, and is really surprisingly tough for such a cute game. i really like this game and heavily recommend it. one of few games i've done an upload on youtube for, if you want to check out additional commentary (description section) and watch a 1cc (there's tips for play, too!) - check it out.

Splatterhouse (PCE) - mostly faithful port of the arcade game that is a tad easier. comes with a secret input for a hard mode that is often considered a bit harder than the arcade version. though not particularly divergent, this is a charming port and has some definitely unmistakable pc engine feel to its identity. i've yet to tackle its hard mode, as i only found out about it after recording my nomiss - which you can watch if you want.

Nekketsu Koko Dodgeball Bu: PC Bangai Hen (PCE) - i'm not sure how much this differs from the arcade version, but i'm bringing it up because it fucking rules. i'm pretty sure that story mode is unique to it and that the arcade mode is also quite different. this is way better than the nes version, in my opinion, and immensely snappy and satisfying. if you're a fan of stuff like double dragon II, this may be way more appealing than you might realize. the arcade mode has 6 entire loops before ending, and they're all worth playing. loop 6 is outright brutal and i beefed it on a 1cc right at 6-1 with the ball an inch away from pummeling my opponent's miserable little 1hp face as time was called - the time limit becomes so strict that at that point you have to have luck a little bit in your favor to win the match. though the game is a little simple, this is outright shockingly fun for what it is as both single-player and competitive 2p material.

- - - - - - - - - -

aaaand emperoring already took recommending the pce druaga from me, but i've admittedly not played it, despite being a druaga fan! oh no! a friend of mine has been wanting me to play it for ages, and i own a copy, however. i've mostly been putting it off because i'm waffling on if i want to play my japanese version, which i can't read, and a translated version, which i'd probably have to purchase an everdrive for to satisfy my stupid proclivities. i've heard from my friend about exactly what ing has said about it - that it's very different and quite good.

admittedly, i'm mostly a quest of ki fan, and haven't even played return of ishtar, yet, despite owning the namco museum disc it comes on. T_T i really need to step it up! i've got a bunch of little quest of ki collectibles and really love the series and the whole air of arcade mythology surrounding it. was admittedly inspired to get into everything after arino's hilarious encounters with quest of ki on GCCX and the truly wonderful special where he plays return of ishtar (there is some delightful interaction with endou on that one that is a must-watch).

I've never seen anyone even mention the arcade original. How is it?

i've not played it, just watched a longplay, eheh. the bosses are COMPLETELY different, however - not just in how they play, but also what they are. i was curious if kickle cubicle had been smeared in localization or something, but found it - at a cursory glance, i own both but haven't played much of the fc version - to be identical to the fc game. no idea what happened when taking this from arcade to console, but it seems to have changed a relatively noticeable bit. plays are available for watch on youtube if you'd like to further scrutinize, it's a game good enough that this is likely worth exploring. irem tend to be undersung as puzzle devs, even though meikyu jima is frankly great and gussun oyoyo also seems to be really good!

- - - - - - - - -

btw, is ps1 gen up for game? some good namco content to mention there that i have very little familiarity with.

i made this post way bigger than i intended! i gotta tone down my big posts on here! @_@ i end up exhausting myself and writing too much for most to read

[WelshMegalodon]

also keep in mind this game is all about spacing to do chain grabs for much of the levels - you get bonus points and therefore quicker earning of extends by throwing.

I actually never considered this before reading your post. To think I could have just walked up to enemies in hitstun and thrown them, TNWA-style... it's no wonder I always had trouble getting into this game.

btw, is ps1 gen up for game? some good namco content to mention there that i have very little familiarity with.

Go right ahead! Like Herr Schatten said, it would be a welcome break from the discussions of 'arcade perfection' you typically see with ports of that generation.

And if stuff like Splatterhouse PCE is allowed, I'd like to make a recommendation for Ryuuko no Ken MD. The sprites are smaller and there's no zooming, but control feels tighter and timing for special moves is much closer to what you would see in a Capcom fighter*, resulting in an arguably superior product. Charging up meter is faster, too - I've dizzied opponents and successfully charged up enough to hit them with a Haoh Shoko Ken before they came out of their dizzy state. The Mega Drive release is a real pushover, but AI opponents in the North American Genesis release actually put up a decent fight.

*

Spoiler

Like other SNK titles, the Neo Geo original forces you to pause ever so briefly between the joystick movement and the button input, just enough for it to be awkward.

[BIL]

i made this post way bigger than i intended! i gotta tone down my big posts on here! @_@ i end up exhausting myself and writing too much for most to read

Eminently reasonable post imo. Even if I just skim or partially read stuff, I like knowing the information is there to refer back to later.

On the run ATM but just a quick seconding:

Magic Sword (SFC/SNES) - another one i've barely touched the arcade version of, but most people tend to report the sfc/snes version as being a bit easier to digest and play around with. i'm mostly sticking this one in here because i have a crush on minakuchi engineering, who ported this and did the excellent bionic commando gb and rockman world v. not a lot of their identity stamped here and it seems mostly faithful to arcade, but i've been meaning to play more of both to get a further grasp on their design sense.

I like to think of SFC Magic Sword as a sensibly lighter alternative to the gruelingly hard AC game. It'll let you experiment with less efficient routes and weaker allies that'll hamper you in AC, and it's still a fairly involving 1CC by console standards. The slowdown can get a bit extreme in certain rooms, but I enjoy having it around, opposite the AC version on Capcom Classics Collection 2 (PS2).

Had no idea the guys behind my beloved Bionic Commando GB did this one. Actually, I don't know much of Minakuchi to begin with (still need to try out the Rockman GB stuff you recommended). I think they did Solar Striker (GB) too? I was pleasantly surprised by that one - classy simpler vert with deceptively tricky 100% shootdowns that expertly handles the fledgling GB hardware. No surprise on the latter count, with Gunpei Yokoi's name in the credits.

(for those uninitiated to Bionic Commando GB, it's perhaps worth mentioning tangentially ITT. It's a loose, significantly refined interpretation of the already strong FC entry that easily holds its own against the source material - the amount of brand new content makes it as much sequel as remake, really; most of the "remake" status comes from the plot, of all things)

[kitten]

off-topic, but relevant -

BIL, your quoting of commando earlier in this thread let me to watch it tonight with two of my friends. i've watched (and thoroughly enjoyed) a lot of schwarzenegger movies and consider contra my utmost favorite gaming series, and yet, somehow, had never watched it. i don't think i need to bust out the superlatives about how fun it was or how much we all enjoyed it!! this was no doubt incredibly influential to games of the time.

ah, man, they don't make them like this, anymore! just pure action with a lot of brevity, levity, and one-liners. would have liked to see the supporting actress get into more of the action, but there's very little to complain about, here - i'll take her firing a rocket launcher into a couple of catcalling cops.

I actually never considered this before reading your post. To think I could have just walked up to enemies in hitstun and thrown them, TWNA-style... it's no wonder I always had trouble getting into this game.

(RE: TMNTIV) - you don't even need to hit 'em once to stun 'em, if you're quick enough. i was first reading TMNTIV as slightly below par until i found out how spacing affects grabs, and it quickly evolved into a delightfully paced and thoroughly well-presented experience with flavor quite distinguishing it from the bevy of final fight-esque brawlers on the console. konami's other big brawler for the snes, batman returns, is much more final fight inspired and surprisingly good, too.

[kitten]

Had no idea the guys behind my beloved Bionic Commando GB did this one. Actually, I don't know much of Minakuchi to begin with (still need to try out the Rockman GB stuff you recommended). I think they did Solar Striker (GB) too? I was pleasantly surprised by that one - classy simpler vert with deceptively tricky 100% shootdowns that expertly handles the fledgling GB hardware. No surprise on the latter count, with Gunpei Yokoi's name in the credits.

minakuchi doesn't have much known about them! i've complained on here, before, but i don't think that any game they participated in revealed their staff. solar striker might have listed some of those that would stay on to work on the rockman world series and bionic commando, but i believe it's still unknown which were nintendo staffers and which were minakuchi, plus they didn't list the first names. they're rather mysterious, but definitely very quality designers. inafune mentions in the rockman collected works book that he believes they understood rockman's appeal better than he did (which is definitely true - he's a hack).

the pacing of the rockman world games will likely be a little too stop & go for you, but III is particularly tough to nomiss and you might appreciate how unforgivingly rigid it is. i believe the series got better as it went along, but it also got a lot easier. V is their best work, in my opinion, but i do wish it had been a little bit tougher. it's a tad too easygoing when you get the patterns down and a few of the bosses start to feel like you're just going through the motions with their mostly non-threatening damage values and grandiose-but-quite-dodgeable attacks. frankly baffling they had e-tanks in that game, but i guess it had become a "thing" by then.

(for those uninitiated to Bionic Commando GB, it's perhaps worth mentioning tangentially ITT. It's a loose, significantly refined interpretation of the already strong FC entry that easily holds its own against the source material - the amount of brand new content makes it as much sequel as remake, really; most of the "remake" status comes from the plot, of all things)

highly agreed! did you ever play rearmed, by the way? it's honestly my favorite of the series, and i feel it definitely took inspiration from the gb game in some of the swinging tweaks and final stage. its super hard mode is a truly brutal challenge! do completely forsake its sequel, though, it is bizarrely tone deaf on what made the original so good, and is lacking a lot of staff from it. i actually find the 09 third-person shooter to be very high quality, too - its swinging is a total blast.

the rockman world games are also loosely tangential to the thread, as despite not being arcade ports, the ones before V are based on but heavily swapped-around versions of the famicom games. really interesting revisions, sometimes better than the famicom in terms of design.