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 Post subject: Re: David Lynch-gasm: Twin Peaks The Return [SPOILERS GALORE
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:45 pm 


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Now that I've been thinking and had time to process everything, maybe Audrey and Cooper woke up at the same time. And much of the Roadhouse scenes we saw, about random people, were actually Audrey. I'm sure about the one that was asking about Linda, she seemed like she was trying to figure out what was going on. The girl that screamed in the Roadhouse, bet it was also Audrey. In a coma for so long, no wonder that she acts like a spoiled teenager on her dreams. We had many answers about her that episode. "Good bye, my son" yeah, seems like the theories were right. Poor Richard, I liked the guy.

Maybe I should have paid more attention to the lyrics on the Roadhouse performances. I remember that while Dale was Dougie, Sharon Van Etten sang "Can't remember. No can't recall no, I can't remember anything at all". Now we had the opposite (The Return can almost be called a musical by now?). Of course, Dale Cooper is himself again and not much different even with everything he went through. The guy is really the most positive one in the world. It is kind of easy to drawn people to evil characters like Bob, but I like that Lynch could made a character that is the nicest guy around and yet very interesting.

As for Diane, I hate to admit this, but I don't understand this situation at all.
(Almost forgot, funny that the guy that killed Chantal looks like Aleister Crowley)
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 Post subject: Re: David Lynch-gasm: Twin Peaks The Return [SPOILERS GALORE
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:45 pm 


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Seems bad Coop manufactured a Diane, for the purpose of keeping tabs on the FBI, as well as a last ditch hit on them. The clone had enough memories to mostly pull it off. Looks like the real Diane was in the lodge, but has been released as the blind woman.


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 Post subject: Re: David Lynch-gasm: Twin Peaks The Return [SPOILERS GALORE
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:01 pm 


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So, Naido = Diane?
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 Post subject: Re: David Lynch-gasm: Twin Peaks The Return [SPOILERS GALORE
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:49 pm 


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wgogh wrote:
So, Naido = Diane?


Maybe

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 Post subject: Re: David Lynch-gasm: Twin Peaks The Return [SPOILERS GALORE
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:02 pm 


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Almost an anagram... But with oriental pronunciation, so they would credit her name just as a clue. Yeah, ill buy It. Not impossible
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 Post subject: Re: David Lynch-gasm: Twin Peaks The Return [SPOILERS GALORE
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:22 am 


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Jurrassic Park!

So Cooper is going to make another Dougie. It's good that he remembered all the stuff with Janey E and the kid. Evil Coop's kid is dead... Brilliantly revealed. The fucking Mitchums with the best reaction of the series - "well, people are under a lot of stress, Bradley".

Audrey. What does it mean. Stuff has happened in the roadhouse. Is it all her dream? Am I stupid? Did the hulk hand fight not actually happen or is it just that one sequence?

And to top it off some truly awful digital effects with Diane. Couldn't ask for more. What the hell is a Tulpa? I don't remember that expression before. Maybe it's just their name for the clones.
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 Post subject: Re: David Lynch-gasm: Twin Peaks The Return [SPOILERS GALORE
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:26 pm 


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What the hell is a Tulpa? I don't remember that expression before. Maybe it's just their name for the clones.

They mentioned tulpas in an earlier episode. In context of the series it's supernatural magic stuff.

You can look the term up on wikipedia to learn what it's really about. the tl;dr is self-imposed hallucinations through meditation.
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 Post subject: Re: David Lynch-gasm: Twin Peaks The Return [SPOILERS GALORE
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:20 pm 


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dan76 wrote:
So Cooper is going to make another Dougie. It's good that he remembered all the stuff with Janey E and the kid. Evil Coop's kid is dead... Brilliantly revealed.

Now the Coopers said goodbye to their sons. But Im to wonder now if its implied that the good Dale created Dougie.
dan76 wrote:
And to top it off some truly awful digital effects with Diane.

Oh no, her shoulders! That was shit, reminds me of some effects on Rabbits and other projects. Shitty, but typical Lynch effects.
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 Post subject: Re: David Lynch-gasm: Twin Peaks The Return [SPOILERS GALORE
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:13 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: David Lynch-gasm: Twin Peaks The Return [SPOILERS GALORE
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:52 pm 


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dan76 wrote:
Audrey. What does it mean. Stuff has happened in the roadhouse. Is it all her dream? Am I stupid? Did the hulk hand fight not actually happen or is it just that one sequence?


I think everything else that's happened in the roadhouse has been real. My reasoning may sound silly, but I had noticed throughout the season what a good job Lynch has done making sure that the movements of the musicians are precisely synced up with the soundtrack. I immediately was put off by how poorly Eddie Vedder was pretending to play (he wasn't even strumming the damn strings!). It didn't occur to me until later that maybe the reason that he was faking it so poorly is because this sequence isn't real. Just a theory.

dan76 wrote:
What the hell is a Tulpa? I don't remember that expression before. Maybe it's just their name for the clones.


I saw this a couple of weeks ago that explains it pretty well:

http://www.indiewire.com/2017/08/twin-peaks-theory-dougie-tulpa-1201866680/
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 Post subject: Re: David Lynch-gasm: Twin Peaks The Return [SPOILERS GALORE
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:11 pm 


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I still hadn't have time to watch episode 16 yet being back from vacation abroad, due to my wife being ill and going to bed early, but I thought, fuck her, and watched it secretly tonight. :twisted:

My thoughts:

* Cooper knows all he needs to know about Tulpas, doppelgangers and the rules of the lodges - 25 years of time to pass, best study how to escape
* It took Evil Cooper a few years to turn up at Diane's apartment after season 2 ended - maybe that's when Cooper made Dougie as a long time plan to get out?
* Dougie had the green ring when he made the trip into the waiting room - was that orchestrated somehow by the same "Phillip Jeffries" who put a contract out on Evil Coop?
* Did Evil Cooper believe Phillip Jeffries was on his side 'cause he was at one of their meetings above the convenience store before Laura Palmer was even dead? Maybe there's only one Phillip Jeffries?
* If Audry had been in a coma for all these years, why was she sitting or standing up and holding a mirror? More likely IMHO, that she's been institutionalized from being insane and finally having a moment of clarity?
* The thing Evil Cooper wants, that Hawk says Truman doesn't want to know about, could that be the thing that crawled inside the girl in the 50's?
* How did Dougie's wedding ring end up inside Major Briggs?

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 Post subject: Re: David Lynch-gasm: Twin Peaks The Return [SPOILERS GALORE
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:46 pm 


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I am worried that 2 hours won't be enough to give me all the answers and plot I need to see resolved - especially since we know that at least 20 or so minutes will be a bizarre surreal montage, a la the Season 2 finale. All the same though, I haven't been this excited in TV for some time. I won't be able to watch the finale until tomorrow though, when family are free. I'll try and get them to watch FWWM tonight. :wink:

emphatic wrote:
* If Audry had been in a coma for all these years, why was she sitting or standing up and holding a mirror? More likely IMHO, that she's been institutionalized from being insane and finally having a moment of clarity?


The key line here that I picked up on is that when the random group of people at the bar started talking about Billy, one of them said to a chick that "she shouldn't hang out at that nuthouse." Which leads me to believe that Audrey is in an insane asylum this whole time.
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 Post subject: Re: David Lynch-gasm: Twin Peaks The Return [SPOILERS GALORE
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:23 pm 



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emphatic wrote:
* If Audry had been in a coma for all these years, why was she sitting or standing up and holding a mirror? More likely IMHO, that she's been institutionalized from being insane and finally having a moment of clarity?


There's a quote floating around from Lynch's Catching the Big Fish talking about the place you can exist in between being awake and asleep and it being white that everyone keeps linking to the Audrey thing as proof it's her awakening. Guess we'll see if that idea holds water tonight.


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 Post subject: Re: David Lynch-gasm: Twin Peaks The Return [SPOILERS GALORE
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:41 am 


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Well, wow. Way too much to take in at 3:30 in the morning. I think I preferred 18 to 17.

The hulk hand fight in the office was awkward, it really seemed forced, almost amateurish. But worth it for the Mitchums.

I think at a certain point in 18 the show flipped into an alternate version of itself - on the highway Coop says everything will be different, and it is but maybe he didn't realise how different. Phillip Jefferies shows him an 8 that flips around - doesn't this symbolise a switch of reality?

Loved the final moments. I guess a trace of that alternate life broke through? She's sure can scream.

Most of episode 18 had this awful feeling throughout. Felt really uneasy watching it, brilliant sound design again. Coop was acting weird during the sex scene, what was that all about? Was he replaying what evil coop had done?

Anyhow, it's a great ending, but can we have season 4? I want to know what happened to Audrey. Maybe nothing, as reality has flipped. It's all gone?!?

I'm going to give it a week and start from the beginning of the season again.
Thank you Mr Lynch.
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Last edited by dan76 on Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: David Lynch-gasm: Twin Peaks The Return [SPOILERS GALORE
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:38 am 


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So it is over now and I still could not watch a single episode of it. Any hints of a season 4 in 25 years ?
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 Post subject: Re: David Lynch-gasm: Twin Peaks The Return [SPOILERS GALORE
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:11 pm 


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So after thinking about it it seems as if Cooper goes back in time and prevents Laura from being murdered, but she disappears whilst he's leading her away. The look on his face says that this wasn't part of the plan.

I assume it has to be Judy stopping him. We get a cut to Sarah Palmer (who is Judy) screaming and glassing the picture of Laura. Judy puts Laura in an alternate reality. That's why Cooper and Diane travel down that highway and cross over. Coop wants to find the alternate Laura and take her back home... To defeat Judy? How does he know Judy is there?!? How will they defeat her - is it because the giant put that thingy into Laura???

They get to the house but Cooper hasn't realised how screwed up this new timeline is. The owner of the house bought it from the old lady with the kid in season 2. The Palmers don't live there.

Then the fantastic ending happens.

Using the old footage from the series was pretty well done, though the difference in image quality become very apparent, particularly seeing Joan Chen. Digital still doesn't handle contrast as good as film. I thought the scene from FWWM where Laura thinks she sees something behind James was pretty good, and Sheryl Lee looked the part as young Laura. She's a pretty great actress, should've had a better career.

Also I keep thinking about Cooper in that last episode. In the diner scene he was more like evil Coop, but when he saw Laura he was himself again. Maybe it's part of the new character he is in this timeline.

Audrey and the little girl who lives down the lane. That's a link of some sort but I've no idea what.
I'll be thinking about this for a long time. I guess re watching the entire season... There's going to be a fair amount of stuff that doesn't lead anywhere.
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 Post subject: Re: David Lynch-gasm: Twin Peaks The Return [SPOILERS GALORE
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:35 pm 


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I got to watch the final two episode from the balcony of an old, almost empty theatre late last night which really added a strange element to it all. Thoroughly enjoyed the ending. I was also quite pleased to hear Julee Cruise at the end of episode 17.

I'm perfectly fine with the series and story ending the way it did. I've heard people unsatisfied by the degree of closure, but that seems a bit silly to me all things considered.


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 Post subject: Re: David Lynch-gasm: Twin Peaks The Return [SPOILERS GALORE
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:45 pm 


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I dont know why anyone wanting to avoid spoilers would go for this thread, but anyway with the tag:
Spoiler: show
Well, half episode 17 is more likely the ending we expected. Yes, the hulk hand fight was kind of weird, but we got most of the relosution of season's plot. I had a personal doubt in my head for a long time, "does Mr C likes coffee?", Im glad to have that answer. Reminds me of a day when I refused coffee just to have my family looking at me like I wasnt myself.

Love the FWWM scenes on the third season, and that with Laura and James and Cooper may be the best of them. I understood like he was trying to save Laura, but just went to a different reality, which wasnt part of his plan by his reactions. Even with all the magical stuff in Twin Peaks, more present in the new season, you cant raise the dead. He knows "Laura is the one" and he can see behind the curtains. The magical perception he had while being Dougie, he still got it.

Very smart excuse to show Joan Chen, Pete and Catherine. I believe Lynch and Frost wanted all the major characters to appear, even if only by old footage. The exception being Annie and Harry. She didnt appeared, did she? Maybe a flashback when they read about Laura's diary, I dont remember.

In the diner scene he was behaving weird, but his intentions were good. As I see it, just shows that Mr C is deep down a part that exists in Cooper. I've read about D.B. Cooper recently, who was a man who hijacked a aircraft. Lynch or Frost got the name for the character, and although our Cooper is a FBI agent, D.B. Cooper was described as a briliant and very gentle man. He was able to get away from the FBI and disapeared mysteriously. If we look at Mr C and Dale, the thing they have in common is the inteligence and how they can have a situation under control, usally using everyone around. Anyway, recently Kyle MacLachlan answered that if Dale had a rock band it would be called "The Parachutes". Parachutes were the thing D.B.Cooper asked on the plane before he disapeared.

Nothing goes so well with surrealism than a man in black suit. Reminds me of Magritte.


In the end, the Return is something to rewatch and worth of the name Twin Peaks. The major problem being that you need to had watched the episodes from 25 years ago, and even then, you must then be able to watch the new episodes with a open mind and patience. The ones that can can pass through all that will have a unforgettable experience.
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 Post subject: Re: David Lynch-gasm: Twin Peaks The Return [SPOILERS GALORE
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:26 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: David Lynch-gasm: Twin Peaks The Return [SPOILERS GALORE
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:07 pm 


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DIAN[E]
[L]INDA
NAID[O] ...Nice game of word they did there.

I choose to sleep and wait for another day to post here, as I realised that judging just before watching isnt good for TP. I believe we all need a time to process. Only now, many hours after, I can say that the last episode was fucking awesome.
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 Post subject: Re: David Lynch-gasm: Twin Peaks The Return [SPOILERS GALORE
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:36 pm 


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I expected the show to end on a happy note with everything resolved and explained.

I'm really stupid.
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 Post subject: Re: David Lynch-gasm: Twin Peaks The Return [SPOILERS GALORE
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:41 pm 


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Just finished. I'm completely satisfied. What a great gift and a blessing this has been. I'm sure this won't be as fulfilling for everyone, but I got all I needed.
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 Post subject: Re: David Lynch-gasm: Twin Peaks The Return [SPOILERS GALORE
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:41 pm 


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ryu wrote:
I expected the show to end on a happy note with everything resolved and explained.

I'm really stupid.


Dont blame you, It was really looking like they were going for that. Lynch was gentle with Ed and Norma and even wanted to make the joneses happy. Mr C on the lodge, Bob defeated... I believed that for a second because Frost once said that "a happier ending for TP is somewhere"

Dune, Blue Velvet and Wild at Heart had positive endings, so you never know. I wouldnt trade the one we got thought, that made the mystery alive after the season is over and at the same time its very meaningful
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 Post subject: Re: David Lynch-gasm: Twin Peaks The Return [SPOILERS GALORE
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:02 pm 


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That was awesome. Had to watch it on my laptop in a hotel on pretty crappy internet, but it was worth it. Having been in the desert for a week with brutal temperatures, it was hard to stay awake for the last episode. Will watch 16-18 w/ the GF (who hasn't seen any) again this week so hopefully will take it in. I knew from episode 1 it was not going to wrap up nicely, but I did think it would wrap up more than it did. Oh well... would be happy with more if it was similar caliber (it seems there's tons of story that could happen), and am also happy to end w/ The Final Dossier. I do know that I want Lynch to do something else in this format though.
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 Post subject: Re: David Lynch-gasm: Twin Peaks The Return [SPOILERS GALORE
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:01 pm 


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I'm starting to think that maybe the Palmer house has been in the hands of the lodge entities all along. The ceiling fan is like the portals in the sky and when the fireman tells Cooper that "It's in our house now", my theory is that he's letting Cooper know that the evil has been captured and kept in the house. He's bringing Laura there as she's the key to defeating it.

Fun fact, the woman that opens the door is the current owner of the actual property.
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 Post subject: Re: David Lynch-gasm: Twin Peaks The Return [SPOILERS GALORE
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:05 pm 


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Couldn't have hoped for a more perfect finale. I'd be happy if that's how it all ended, but maybe Lynch can be persuaded to continue with a new season. Any why not, he really seems to have found his stride making TV again.


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 Post subject: Re: David Lynch-gasm: Twin Peaks The Return [SPOILERS GALORE
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:33 pm 


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This is interesting if you've watched it all: http://www.indiewire.com/2017/09/twin-p ... 201872863/
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 Post subject: Re: David Lynch-gasm: Twin Peaks The Return [SPOILERS GALORE
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:50 pm 


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I enjoyed 17 and 18 a lot.

Spoiler: show
18 was very well shot with some impressive, effective Hitchcock-style shots, especially the long drive back home. Are we being followed? Few TV series would take its time to shoot a long scene like that. So painfully slow and effective... I like how Cooper tried to go the distance to make things right, and I kind of believed he would be successful at it to the very end. I think it could have gone both ways, to be honest, and the fanbase would have been fine with either. Sarah finding Laura, music swelling, and then Sarah's face opens up and eats the camera or something. =) I find the ending he chose pretty fitting considering the mood of the revival. The Mitchum brothers were amazine season, and so was Janey-E. Props to Albert and Tammy, too. A show to rewatch, for sure.
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 Post subject: Re: David Lynch-gasm: Twin Peaks The Return [SPOILERS GALORE
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:41 am 


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The Mitchum brothers were the new Horne brothers, basically.
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 Post subject: Re: David Lynch-gasm: Twin Peaks The Return [SPOILERS GALORE
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:27 pm 


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I was initially dreading that series 3 would be a conservative nostalgia exercise, so I've been thrilled with every moment of it, and relieved to find it antagonistic to that expectation. I've appreciated how far it has gone to unmoor itself from the Twin Peaks that people remember and love (myself included), to puncture nostalgia almost at every opportunity (not least by transforming so many familiar returning characters into grotesque monstrosities), and instead march forward as a continuation of Lynch's wider career, and a genuinely groundbreaking realisation of what is possible with television as art.

Spoiler: show
I thought the ending was perfect, too. Part 17 was a a fun piece of 'prestige' TV, but it would have been a mistake to end on such tidy narrative closure, IMO - and the show itself seems to mock the very notion of doing so, with Freddie's hilariously goofy boss fight against BOB. I liked that it got that kind of ending out of its/our system and pressed on with its own bleak, horrifying agenda, in what ended up being a kind of epilogue to FWWM. I loved the double gut-punches of the disorienting reshuffling of reality (pointing toward the supernatural elements in Twin Peaks being far more unsettling than just BOB and the other Lodge-dwellers sourcing garmonbozia), and the realisation of Coop's abject failure to really help Laura Palmer or undo the trauma that hangs like a miasma over the Palmer house.

I hope this marks Twin Peaks' grave. I'd devour a season 4, but I don't need it.


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