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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Episode VIII) released 12/15/2
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:59 pm 


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Mischief Maker wrote:
Said it before and I'll say it again, Han Solo already sacrificed himself for the rebellion in ANH, and already had his big death scene in ESB. If he sacrificed himself and died in ROTJ, it would have been redundant.


Yeah, in a more realistic movie what they would have gotten out of the carbonite in ROTJ would have been a corpse, or at the very least a very crippled man. No matter how good you are, no matter how much effort you put into something, there are some things you just can't change. What's done is done.

But it's a mass market kid's movie that sanitizes horrible, horrible violence.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Episode VIII) released 12/15/2
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:56 pm 


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Quote:
No idea why we're comparing BR2049 and TLJ, but for what it's worth I'd cut more than 20 minutes of 2049. I disagree the pacing is fine; it's only fine until a point, after which it's borderline badly paced and affects the film negatively.


TLJ's pacing... or maybe I should say direction in which the film goes is a mess. The former may have some slower parts but it's all moving to a coherent ending point.
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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Episode VIII) released 12/15/2
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:36 pm 


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Skykid wrote:
GaijinPunch wrote:
Skykid wrote:
I give everything reasoned criticism (I've given TLJ plenty of criticism) but in answer to your question maybe it appears that way because of the general consensus versus reality. BR2049 has good elements to it and is a well made film, it's just a movie with problems that drag it down, and it's no way superior to the original which is probably the main reason it needs to be picked over.


I thought people that were saying it eclipsed the original were fucking nuts... but, if we're weighing the pros & cons lists of BR2049 vs TLJ, it is amazingly apparent which one has more cons. (Spoiler: TLJ)

Quote:
TLJ, conversely, has lots of obvious problems but also has elements that elevate it by a small but distinguishable margin above the filler that occurred since 83 to now. I'm just trying to illustrate why.


The problem w/ TLJ is that a lot of it is filler. It's arguable that 2049 could have snipped 20 minutes (and we know which 20 minutes you'd cut) but in the end, it's supposed to be noir cop drama... there are supposed to be lulls and whatnot. Personally I found the pacing fine. Main characters aren't supposed to escape a damaged/doomed ship which happens to be a major driving force of the plot, go somewhere for god knows how long, play poker, get arrested, ride some space camels, then come back. Being able to snip 20 minutes over the course of 160 minutes here and there is one thing. Being able to cut out a 20 minute scene is pretty unforgivable.


No idea why we're comparing BR2049 and TLJ, but for what it's worth I'd cut more than 20 minutes of 2049. I disagree the pacing is fine; it's only fine until a point, after which it's borderline badly paced and affects the film negatively.

TLJ could also use some cutting, although perplexingly the reason Canto Bight is so lackluster (possibly) is because they already cut too much. Apparently it was a far more extended sequence that lost nearly all the detail in post, so what's left is fairly unfulfilling. I would definitely trim the Luke/Rey scenes down too, I'd cut Dern entire and have Leia fill her role and hyperspace the armada instead. I'd cut Rose and have Finn go off and do his skit with BB8, and at the end they fall in love and kiss and then BB8 fucks him in the ass with a giant fluorescent blue dildo.





:mrgreen:

The last paragraph

I wanted the last Jedi to eclipse empire strikes back .
Was I asking for to much?
I also noticed that Finn hardly spoke or had any lines or presence in the film .
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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Episode VIII) released 12/15/2
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:39 am 


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Very Cool!

For the record, I thought of a better ending for Han Solo in ROTJ today. Start with Luke lighting Vader's funeral pyre with the soaring music playing in the background, pan up to the stars, music is still playing through a montage with no other sound. Montage of the surviving rebels coming back onboard a Calamari cruiser to a hero's welcome, cut to the cruiser hovering over a better looking capital than the prequels' Coruscant. Scene of Leia being crowned queen while Luke and Han applaud side by side in the crowd. Scene of Han in a dress uniform in the middle of a row of generals looking visibly uncomfortable as troops parade in front. Scene of Leia giving a speech in front of the Imperial Senate and Han joining the crowd in a standing ovation and looking lost among the rich and powerful. Scene of Han sitting in a room beside Lando as he has a heated labor negotiation with some Ugnaughts and Han looks out of place with nothing to add. Scene of Luke gaining access to a dusty old library long out of use and finding a yellowed scroll with star coordinates. Scene of Luke with the scrolls in a pack being trailed by R2D2, he bumps into Han dressed in his vest carrying a pack of his own. Luke opens his mouth, Han gives him a look, and Luke nods knowingly, before the two have a manly embrace then go their separate ways. Luke and R2D2 climb into his X-Wing. Han walks into the control room of the Falcon and finds Chewie waiting in the copilot seat. An exhausted Leia returns home late and unties her buns then walks into the bedroom with a smile, but finds Han's dress uniform on the bed. She asks C3PO where Han is and C3PO gestures to the window where you see both the Falcon and Luke's X-Wing take off and go in different directions. A closeup of Leia breaking down crying. Scene of Han looking sad as he flies away from a world he's no longer useful for, now that the war's over. Final scene of Luke climbing from his X-Wing on a tropical rainforest planet and finding the remains of kung fu exercise yard outside a vine-choked Mayan-looking ziggurat. The stone door is sealed shut with no sign of a handle save for two recessed circles in the wall. Luke reaches out his hand, the circles spit out dust as they start to rotate and open the door. All around the temple vines snap as stone windows swing open and futuristic electric light sources power on. Final shot is a wide shot where Luke's silhouette disappears into the lighted entrance way as twin suns set in the background.

At least that's my idea.
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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Episode VIII) released 12/15/2
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:16 am 


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@ Mischief Maker - pretty good. I thought that when the Han Solo film was announced this was Disneys way of testing the waters for other actors to play OT characters. It could happen. I don't see why they wouldn't do films set between Jedi and TFA seeing as they're shitting on everything now.

So, looks like the Solo trailer will be shown during Super Bowl. The internet will throw a wobbly if it looks half good.
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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Episode VIII) released 12/15/2
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:16 pm 


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dan76 wrote:
I thought that when the Han Solo film was announced this was Disneys way of testing the waters for other actors to play OT characters.


As opposed to the amazingly convincing dead actor CGI? I like how they didn't even bother with a Teamster in a motion capture suit but just winged it. The fact that his facial features just sort of float on his face really makes necro-Tarkin look like a more convincing alien than Peter Cushing ever was. Plus It really lets you know these people are in space when a character takes a step and their body moves like they're on the moon, even more so when you have them opposite actual human actors for comparison. Not hiring that motion capture actor must have saved Disney a cool $500!
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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Episode VIII) released 12/15/2
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:12 pm 


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Can't wait until an elderly Carrie Fisher becomes a jedi master and does crazy backflips n' shit.

For the youtube clips of nerd outrage. The elder game is the meta game, not the thing in and of itself. What more can you ask for, for $0?

If Star Wars was good, how come there wasn't another franchise that took its place in the space fantasy genre? There was this enormous vacuum for decades. Did I miss something huge, or is two or three movies the soft upper limit for a movie franchise?

(The space fantasy aesthetic is something I actually like quite a bit. Things like Warhammer 40,000 or the cyborg lizard men/dinosaurs in Duelyst. It's refreshing. Costs a ton of money to do in live action tho...)


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Episode VIII) released 12/15/2
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:18 pm 


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Mischief Maker wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uKtUlPmhqw


Goddamn that looks terrible. Looks like it's suddenly a CGI cartoon version. And the hardcore "fans" playing defense in the comment section are hilarious .. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Episode VIII) released 12/15/2
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:41 pm 



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dan76 wrote:
So, looks like the Solo trailer will be shown during Super Bowl. The internet will throw a wobbly if it looks half good.


Yep, Disney is willing to pay the asking $5 million+ USD to air the new Solo film trailer -- the real question is how long will it be? It better be quite memorable for that amount of $$$, right? With the teaser promotional poster of Solo: A Star Wars Side Story with a May 24th, 2018 theatrical release date indeed.

During Super Bowl 51 last year, it was a whopping $5.5 million for just a mere 30 seconds of air time for a commercial (not to mention the company that promoting the said product or service has to pay the advertising agency for producing said commercial and whatnot). It's business as usual. I recall at the very minimum, three major Hollywood film studios showcased three new movie trailers during Super Bowl 51 that ran for at least 60 seconds in length tops -- there goes $11 million out the window. It's considered chump change with the major Hollywood film studios anyways -- so be it.

If you read the The Art of The Last Jedi hardcover book, it mentions that Disney and Lucasfilm had originally wanted to release TLJ during the month of May 2017 but was subsquently changed to the later December, 18th 2017 release date to give more time for film production -- 14 months to work with (rather than try to push for a smaller production date/window time frame and face the dreaded shorter May release date -- it'd be a mad rush in doing so but it could've been pulled off). Considering that Disney has so much $$$ to spend/burn, it really doesn't matter.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Episode VIII) released 12/15/2
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:17 pm 


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I remember when Burger King tried to cheat the system with their 15 second super bowl ad by intentionally activating google smartphones and other assorted devices to read the Wikipedia entry for the Whopper.

The results were not pretty, people responded by making "adjustments" to the Wikipedia entry being read.
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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Episode VIII) released 12/15/2
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:18 pm 


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Udderdude wrote:
Mischief Maker wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uKtUlPmhqw


Goddamn that looks terrible. Looks like it's suddenly a CGI cartoon version. And the hardcore "fans" playing defense in the comment section are hilarious .. :lol:


Jesus. I'd naively assumed there was at least some artistry to CG Tarkin, like they'd sparingly overlaid his features onto a physical actor, stuck to complementary angles and lighting, avoided leaning 100% on the effects... basic principles, Rob Bottin and Stan Winston circa 1982. Instead he's mugging and verving and moonwalking all over the set like a fucking muppet. :lol: In that clip a grown man is being menaced by Sam The Eagle. :shock: I guess they tried but holy fuck, just recast already.

I want to think dear old Peter Cushing would've laughed at the whole thing. It's really unintentionally hilarious, especially the "dramatic reveal." Remember me, Eddie?! *boing*
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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Episode VIII) released 12/15/2
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:59 am 


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That CGI Tarkin was bad enough for me, that I didn't even bother to watch The Last Jedi in theater.


Last edited by Jonny2x4 on Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Episode VIII) released 12/15/2
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:58 pm 



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Disney & Lucasfilm made their Solo teaser trailer debut during the 1st quarter of Super Bowl 52 just a few minutes ago which seems to be a mere 30 seconds long in duration (with the caption promoting that the official full-length Solo movie trailer will be shown tomorrow, 2/05/2018 in it's entirety on Youtube -- go figure). I wasn't sure when it was going to be shown during the Super Bowl telecast though and now have my answer to that pressing question. My initial impression of it, it looks to be interesting in it's own right. Am not sure where it'll fit within the Star Wars film continuity/timeline/universe (perhaps with the events taking place after SW Episode III and definitely before SW Episode IV).

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Episode VIII) released 12/15/2
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:06 am 


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The footage with CGI Tarkin looks almost like the someone switched the movie with the Clone Wars CGI animated series whenever Tarkin appears.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Episode VIII) released 12/15/2
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:56 am 


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You guys must have superhuman video frame-by-farme pixel-by-pixel analytic eyes, I was impressed with CGI Tarkin. While it's not yet 100% fooling the viewer it's still one of the most adavanced and polished CGI face imitation I have ever seen, actually useable in film if it's only for a few short scenes like that.
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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Episode VIII) released 12/15/2
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:17 pm 


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Close but no cigar don't cut it in the uncanny valley. It's a long way down. 3;

I can appreciate they tried, but it's a fool's errand at this point in time. Just recast a flesh and blood actor, for fuck's sake. Charles Dance would've done superbly as Tarkin, off the top of my head.

This goes for every "actor got old/died" ever. These are fictional characters, not REAL MUHFUCKIN G'S who got blown away BITD, ffs! I get not wanting to see some maimed Queen/Motorhead/Joy Division reheat sans their irreplaceable frontmen, but this ain't that! Despite the claims to the contrary by neckbeard-ass muhfuckas 3;
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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Episode VIII) released 12/15/2
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:11 pm 


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edit: Not talking about the morality if the practice here but how realistic the scene is or not. I don't believe the real actor's performance for a few lines in a sci-fi flick ever mattered that much to begin so in regard to the actor's talent I don't think there's much of a sacrilege in this case.

I think there's some internet opinion influence here, personally I hadn't seen nor read anything at all about the movie before watching it, no trailer, no SkyKid, nothing.

And when he appeared on screen it took my brain probably more than half of the scene's duration to realize it was really CGI and not some clever montage using footage from his career or something. Actually one of the two~three moments the film woke me up.

Sure if you're aware in advance of what's coming, or already read a ton of negative criticism before watching the scene, it's easy to get the surprise of that moment completely ruined from the first second and go with flow of opinion.
Honestly you guys are exaggerating, if there's one or two things to save in that movie it's the little big accomplishments like that one.

BrianC wrote:
The footage with CGI Tarkin looks almost like the someone switched the movie with the Clone Wars CGI animated series whenever Tarkin appears.

Yeah right, The Lawnmower looked better. My little sister's scribbles look better. My dog poop's look better, Cave is shit, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Episode VIII) released 12/15/2
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:21 pm 


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I'll hold my hand up, I knew something wasn't right with Nancy Marchand's final Sopranos appearance, but it wasn't until well afterward that I learned she'd died before the episode, and it was all CG-aided montage. Only at that point did I go back and say "Jesu Fuck! It's like a hamster." Or, horrifyingly given the dear lady's advanced age, like one of those old fake pornos using super-imposed interview face footage of hawt babes like the show's very own Jamie-Lynn What's-Her-Name! I couldn't fap to those. >_>

I wanna say CG Tarkin would've immediately taken me back to the halcyon days of PS2 "floating old man head" demo regardless of bad press, but those imperfections even being there to point out sullies a movie/show, imo. It's just a needless overreach. I'd have preferred Livia Soprano just die offscreen too. 3;
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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Episode VIII) released 12/15/2
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:42 pm 


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But my point is it worked for what it was meant to be, I don't believe people who say they weren't surprised-fooled at least for a moment before the scene ends.

Or as I said maybe they were aware in advance, rewatched, paused, noticed specific flaws pointed by others etc.

Most of the imperfections you notice at least after a moment or later when reviewing, not immediately save maybe if you're a damn expert of filmmaking and CGI master, and know the actor's face as well as your own.

Whatever, to say things like it was kid's show CG quality or PS2 demo level, no, I can't take you guys seriously at all there period.
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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Episode VIII) released 12/15/2
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:39 pm 


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With adversarial networks, they show some promise that CG can eventually be photorealistic. Within our lifetimes, it's very possible that big AAA movies will be made completely in a computer.

And yeah, the souls of dead actors from a hundred years ago will be trapped inside.

(Which is a horrifying prospect for those of us who know that pop culture has a shorter life span than an internet meme. Charles Dickens novels from a hundred years ago aren't all the rage in this day and age. Star Wars should be dead and buried by now. Not frozen in time in carbonite.)


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Episode VIII) released 12/15/2
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:47 pm 


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Xyga wrote:
BrianC wrote:
The footage with CGI Tarkin looks almost like the someone switched the movie with the Clone Wars CGI animated series whenever Tarkin appears.

Yeah right, The Lawnmower looked better. My little sister's scribbles look better. My dog poop's look better, Cave is shit, etc.

Internet.


Xyga wrote:
Whatever, to say things like it was kid's show CG quality or PS2 demo level, no, I can't take you guys seriously at all there period.



I only mentioned Clone Wars because it's also Star Wars and CG. My point is that Tarkin looked like a CGI cartoon. It had nothing to do with how good or bad Clone Wars looks.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Episode VIII) released 12/15/2
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:03 pm 


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Yes that's what I got and, well, I don't agree with you. ^^

To me at least in the initial scene it looks like 90% real, very much beyond any CG cartoon.
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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Episode VIII) released 12/15/2
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:40 am 


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Spoilers in case anyone hasn't seen the film yet. If you havent't, don't bother, watch this instead.

I was thinking of doing a fan edit of TLJ. I don't know why, as I had no interest in ever watching this film again, but it struck me that if Finn didn't wake up until the end of the movie then the whole Canto Bight stuff could be cut completely. The Phasma fight would also be cut but that doesn't matter because she may as well have died in TFA.

Then I discovered a load of other people had had the same thoughts and there are a ton of fan edits out there already. So I watched one called The Fallen Knight. It's easy to find.

It can't fix the dumb way Luke was handled or the general plot - and there are other cuts I would make, but basically it's way better than the version that was released.

Finn wakes up as normal but most of the film is spent with Rey and Luke with occasional cuts to Poe and Finn. Leia doesn't get blown into space. Kylo thinks about destroying the bridge but then turns away. Rose is hardly in it thank Christ. Finn doesn't try to sacrifice himself at the end - everybody turns back when Poe orders them to. A lot of the humour is also cut, most notably at the start between Hux and Poe. Luke doesn't go fishing or drink space milk but he mourns Han's death instead. And, the broom kid is also cut at the end.

There are a few jarring moments. Holdo only shows up as she's about to sacrifice herself, but that's about it. Personally I'd have also cut Yoda as that scene is crap, Rey's "dream" and also the last shot of Luke, but I guess that wouldn't work for episode 9... I'd also try and add Holdo in earlier just to make sense of her turning up at the end.

The whole film is about 45 minutes shorter. I've never watched a fan edit if anything before, and I still might try my own using this as a template and chopping a bit more. Pretty good replacement for the theatrical cut.
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Last edited by dan76 on Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Episode VIII) released 12/15/2
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:20 pm 


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The edits make it pretty obvious, that which needs removing is all that was shoehorned in.

The Last Jedi? - Step 1. Remove "empowered", "fierce", "woke" women from the film.
2. Finn has got to go.
3. All traces of Luke must be removed. (He exists in this film for one reason only; to be debased and so to debase the original core . "Let the past die. Kill it if you have to".)

On second thoughts, fuck it. It's irredeemable. Scrap the whole idea.
Just show this for the full 152 mins. It is all you are watching anyway;

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Episode VIII) released 12/15/2
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 4:54 pm 


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Came across another "Mark Hamill says something" clip on youtube and it really brought to the forefront one of the biggest problems with the movies is: The cast aging beyond the narrative. You can't see Luke continue his war against the Empire, reestablish the Jedi order and train Leia on how to be a wizard because that's all stuff that happens after episode 6. And Mark's way too old to continue right off from that thread.

Even though I think that's what most people would have wanted to see. The time to shoot those scenes and that movie was during the years the prequels were done instead.

I'm just bringing it up because there was another series that got around this problem by the cunning method of just ignoring it. In season 4, Arrested Development had new recap scenes that had happened in season 3. Which were filmed 7 years earlier. They had Mike Cena, a grown ass man, running around and dressed up like he was still a lanky teenager. It was hilarious. (btw, Season premiere is in 17 days.)

As much as I would love to see a movie starring Mark Hamill pretending to be in his 30's while Leia gets recast by a new actress and we just go with it, I know they're not allowed to do interesting nor entertaining things in Hollywood. We'd just have to wait for the CGI necromancy to become advanced enough to be indistinguishable from reality.

It'll still be creepy as hell though.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Episode VIII) released 12/15/2
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 5:40 pm 


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Should've recast and continued from Episode VI. What a scary grownup concept. I want the crumbling skeleton of the first guy who played Othello, or nothing at all!

Even if it still sucked, at least it wouldn't have smelled of Depends and Metamucil.
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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Episode VIII) released 12/15/2
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 9:30 pm 


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BryanM wrote:
I'm just bringing it up because there was another series that got around this problem by the cunning method of just ignoring it. In season 4, Arrested Development had new recap scenes that had happened in season 3. Which were filmed 7 years earlier. They had Mike Cena, a grown ass man, running around and dressed up like he was still a lanky teenager. It was hilarious. (btw, Season premiere is in 17 days.)


Clever writers come up with good ideas to get around cast ages or long-running series. David Lynch premised the whole new season of Twin Peaks around the fact that those 25 years we spent waiting for Coop to leave the black lodge and be his old self again were never coming back, and he wouldn't be the same person he was anyhow. Powerful stuff that sobers you while you watch a man sweep for 4 minutes.

Star Wars gives us Luke sucking female Watto's titties and Han Solo wearing the same clothes for 40 years straight.
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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Episode VIII) released 12/15/2
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 1:56 am 


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Personally, I think Star Wars should've ended with the original trilogy. Everything after that was unnecessary. With that said, I always wondered why they never bothered to adapt the Thrawn Trilogy into movies back in the 90's. I'm sure they would've been much better received than the current Disney sequels.

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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Episode VIII) released 12/15/2
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 11:16 pm 


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EmperorIng wrote:
Powerful stuff that sobers you while you watch a man sweep for 4 minutes.


Or drive down a dark road for 6.
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RegalSin wrote:
New PowerPuff Girls. They all have evil pornstart eyelashes.


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 Post subject: Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Episode VIII) released 12/15/2
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 3:07 pm 


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Imagine if when Rey finds Luke it turns out he'd been hanging out in Twin Peaks all these years damn

So many missed opportuinties with this revival :(


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